We are talking about Wales, not Arsenal. They have different functional requirements.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa
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We are talking about Wales, not Arsenal. They have different functional requirements.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa
As The Other Bob said in his match report, the average age of the front 4 was 21. With that in mind, the hesitant start was understandable, but it had to be done. It was a huge test for players, and now we are in a better place going forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger
We missed Ramsey more than Ampadu last night. Nobody was linking the midfield to the attack, which is what he does best. Allen played the deepest lying midfield role well last night. I'd be much more concerned if Wales missed Davies, Hennessey, Allen, Ramsey and obviously Bale than Ampadu. I might include Mepham in that considering Chester's rather alarming drop off in form.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
Ok I get your point, Ampadu is our 7th best player, which makes his Man Of The Match performances even more impressive! :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa
I must have dreamt about all this linkup play then, not to mention all the defensive work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5gvsbzqrRI
fantastic result last night for the team and management. There were a few issues first half but Giggs and Roberts sorted them out half time and we could have won by more. Tyler Roberts was offside a lot first half and not arching his runs while Lawrence and Wilson were too static, this all changed second half and we got our rewards.
Hennessey annoys me with his positioning for back passes and seems to stand on the byline instead of his 6 yard line this causes panic for the midfielder who comes short (this time it was Smith, Ramsey in the home game) and puts the team 10 yards deeper, he needs to watch Ederson.
Davies MOFM for me with his forward runs. Connor Roberts and Brooks partnership on the right looks lethal and hopeful Bale and Davies can cause the same problem on the left. Lawrence and Tylor Roberts to fight for the centre forward position against Denmark.
You’ve got to admit Ramsey doesn’t suit those dreadlocks 🤪Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
Maybe this is worthy of a seperate thread but I was just wondering how the rest of you feel about players born outside wales representing the national team?
On the one hand I feel that international rules for citizenship are what they are and if your grandparent/s are of a certain nationality you can get citizenship for that reason. A lot of balkan countries do it with swiss nationals and the french with north african countries so why not us.
On the other hand, I have to admit to feeling a little bit got at when people level things like “ x number of english born players” and “You only get the english rejects”.
Personally I feel like grandparents who you might never have met is stretching it a little. I feel a lot more comfortable when they qualify through parent/s.
This is not a dig and I realise I have no authourity to question the nationality that someone identifies with. If they feel it, they feel it.
Personally I don't react to the digs in a negative way. Talksport may have said a few things after the Euros but as far as I remember Ashley Williams was first spotted when playing for Stockport County so it was a Swansea and Welsh education than helped develop his potential, and he says there are no questions about his kids cause they are definitely Welsh. Mostl dual-qualified players now are spotted in their teens (if not younger) so again go through a Welsh footballing education which develops that sense of identity and connection.Quote:
Originally Posted by Divine Wright
Historically, admittedly, there are examples of players in their mid/late twenties who have been picked because they fit a need and until that moment they probably don't consider themselves Welsh. Not so much a fan of that but cannot rule them out if they come to Wales later on in life. I guess you would have to have an honest conversation about whether they want to embrace that part of their identity or whether it's just cause whoever it is hasn't come knocking.
Think about Wales' greatest players. Meredith, Keenor, Ford, the Charles brothers, Morgan, Tapscott, Allchurch, Jones, Thomas, Thomas,Davies, Medwin, Hennessey, Sherwood, Flynn, England, James, Phillips,Toshack, Mahoney, Nicholas, Southall, Melville, Coleman, Davies, Ratcliffe, Hughes, Rush, Saunders, Giggs, Horne, Robinson, Speed, Savage, Hartson, Pembridge, Jones, Bowen, Gabbidon, Collins, Page, Koumas, Bale, Ramsey, Hennessey, Bellamy, Blake, Davies, Ledley, Allen, Davies.All born in Wales.Quote:
Originally Posted by surge
The only "greats" not on the list of Welsh born players are David Phillips, Earnie, Williams, Page, Robson Kanu, Vokes, Chester and maybe Simon Church. All of the world famous players in our history are Welsh born and bred.
I can never tell if Wales Bales is on a wind up or actually serious
I wouldn’t put Earnie in the same bracket really as he was brought up from a young age in Wales. He’s a welshman in every sense of the word.Quote:
Originally Posted by severncity
True enough
I think everyone is in agreement that he put in a MOTM performance in that game. How did he do in the next game?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
I thought he did ok. It's not his fault the defence took the day off. The flair players up front weren't their usual selves either. All in all I would imagine it was a good experience for the young lad, a glimpse of the next level and what needs to be improved. Hopefully he will go out on loan in January to a decent side, as it's a bit of a jump going from playing U23 games one day to Top 10 international teams the next.Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCBlue
There is an element of truth in everything I say :biggrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by jamieccfc
Not much of a jump for someone who is currently the country's second best player though surely?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
Who were the stand out Welsh players against Denmark? I can't remember anybody having a particularly good game. Ampadu certainly wasn't intimidated by the Danish players, and the penalty decision was harsh.Quote:
Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mArGrK4InOQ
I don't think many people are making a judgment on who our top two players are at the moment on the basis of a couple of international games though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
He's never been outclassed in any game I've seen him play in. Let's see what the next few games bring, but I think I already know what the outcome is going to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays
I thought the point you were making was that he is currently our second best player not that he might become that in the near future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
3 star men .. Ampadu is our second best player!
I would agree that he has the potential to become perhaps our most influential player as Bales and Ramsey's talents wane but there is a gap in experience and quality that will take some time to close.
O ye, of little faith :biggrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays
I'm talking about the quality of the opposition, not the ability of the player. Even the world's best players need to be playing at the highest levels to maintain their competative edge.Quote:
Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays
I think Ampadu has done enough to show he would be in our current strongest eleven, but our second best player after Bale? Not yet, Ramsey, Allen, Ben Davies and probably one or two others have a stronger claim for that position at the moment.
Yep, all fantastic players, but I am thinking more of the role that Ampadu plays that makes him such an important player in our team. I think we got lucky, and it will become more apparent as we move forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Coincidentally as Bale, Allen and Ramsey age, and Ampadu gets to his peak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
Yep, and our team could look something like, this with loads more talent available too!Quote:
Originally Posted by WJ99mobile
Ward
C. Roberts - Rodon - Mepham - Davies
Brooks - Smith - Ampadu - Wilson
Woodburn - T. Roberts
He's good, but he isn't our second best player, like you said he is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
He's hardly played. Let's see how everybody performs in the next few games. Denmark is a big test, and that should separate the men from the boys, so to speak. I actually predicted Ampadu would have a big impact for Wales before his rave reviews against Ireland. I watched him play next to Luiz and Christensen, and on both occasions he was the better player.Quote:
Originally Posted by City123
Ampadu... are we still doing this? :hehe:
Haters gonna hate init :biggrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by MacAdder
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
Yep and over the next few years more young players will be breaking through.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
We also have Lawrence as well.
4 welsh born players. That would suggest a problem with developing footballers from within the country. It’s a dangerous game because if the 7 england born players had decided not to represent Wales, we’d be fukt from what I gather. I find it a really disappointing that welsh schools and football system have potentially produced 4 players good enough to get in the future wales team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
There's 5 in that side, Ward, Roberts, Rodon, Davies and Wilson. 12 of the current squad are welsh born, and that's not including Ramsey and Bale. Most of them have played Victory Shield football too, it's not as if we've found them from nowhere. Thomas, Ampadu, Smith and T. Roberts were part of the side that beat England in 2014.Quote:
Originally Posted by Divine Wright
When I said he's hardly played, it was meant for those who think he's our 7th or 8th best player. I have already seen him play enough to reach my own conclusions that he is much better than that :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by City123
Anyway, let's see what happens against Denmark when the chips are really down. If I am wrong I will gladly admit it :thumbup:
That’s exactly my point. There has always been a majority welsh-born team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa
The FAW has obviously gone big on finding foreign born young dual nationality players in the last few years. I think it’s a dangerous tactic for the long term.
For one, it means there is something wrong with scouting, promoting football or developing welsh footballers in the LoW or cardiff/swansea systems.
I think we’ll eventually end up suffering from this strategy due to the “Michael Owen” effect.
Anyone who is of obvious world class talent will be snapped up by england lured by the chance to become stars at biannual international competitions, especially in a world where footballers seem to be getting more and more individualistic. This in fact is one of the things I love about our new stock of foreign born players. They seem to have values that go beyond personal gain.
Even so, I think it’s something to be careful of and we shouldn’t be naive enough to think this calibre of player will always choose Wales. We need to carry on improving the system from within the country so the two approaches can complement eachother.
It's all about heritage, if my mother or father were born elsewhere, I would gladly run through brick walls if I was chosen to represent the land of their birth.
They're trying to find good players. That's it. They're all playing through the age groups and want to play for Wales, in the UK it's going to be a problem that people move about pretty freely. There are players there that have turned down England to play for us, I think you're being too logical. Michael Owen was born in England and dreamed of playing for England. He could have played for Wales but he wasn't welsh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Divine Wright
You're still depending on the will of an individual. Look at what happened with Declan Rice. When he decided to go elsewhere it was a real kick in the teeth for an Irish team already light on quality players. We are fortunate that the current crop have a clear idea of where they want to be and that they could actually turn out to be players that might have got into the England squad. But that's through luck rather than design.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa
I think everybody knows the feeling of desperation when a young dual-national has yet to get a full cap for his country. You're always a little bit on tenterhooks until he becomes a full international. And I'm sure in the future we'll see people who come through the youth set up here and then decide last minute to play for England.
I'm just saying that it's a risky game to play and that your "bread and butter" should be homegrown players who can only represent Wales. It's very logical, as you say, but I think using logic to anticipate problems in the future is the right way to go about doing things!