Thomas Cook

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25-09-19, 12:50
rudy gestede

Re: Thomas Cook

Quote:

Originally Posted by lardy

No one is forcing companies to work inside the EU. They do it because it's cheaper, it's convenient, it opens up a huge market.

It's a piece of piss to leave the EU. The problem is doing it without crashing the economy because so many businesses have prospered under it. They don't have a gun to our head, we could leave any time. Thankfully most MPs know that a no deal would be catastrophic.

Is he going to sleep on it before trying to find another weird negative point tonight? :hehe:

The cult of Brexit has really got hold of him.
25-09-19, 13:29
Optimistic Nick

Re: Thomas Cook

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Hooded Claw

It’s been widely reported that market uncertainty has had a significant effect on Thomas Cook due to Brexit.
It’s also well know that currency devaluation has played a large part in their problems, again due to Brexit.
I totally agree that Thomas Cook were still relying on an outdated business model, but the I believe spending the £200m was a risk worth taking to buy the company some time to reorganise itself, maybe by selling off the airline.
The difference between them and TUI is that they were more reliant on the UK market, which is exposed... because of Brexit.

There are far greater differences between the two than just markets. TUI has changed quite a bit to differentiate itself by essentially taking over hotels to generate brand loyalty (eg Holiday Village). Which was good management. TUI also has a lot less debt.

And your two arguments don't really hang together anyway ( being i) Brexit caused the failure; and ii) Govt should have stumped up £200m to tide them over until they sort out their business model). Brexit isn't going away so if that's a significant reason for failure why would giving them time to sort out their business model help?
25-09-19, 14:14
Maurice Swan

Re: Thomas Cook

Government not allowed to bail out companies like TC, EU RULES........

Now if we were not in the EU we could do what we wanted......
25-09-19, 14:18
rudy gestede

Re: Thomas Cook

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice Swan

Government not allowed to bail out companies like TC, EU RULES........

Now if we were not in the EU we could do what we wanted......

How come Germany just bailed out Condor then?
25-09-19, 14:19
lardy

Re: Thomas Cook

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice Swan

Government not allowed to bail out companies like TC, EU RULES........

Now if we were not in the EU we could do what we wanted......

The government = tax payers money.

EU rules or not, that's not what taxes are paid for.
25-09-19, 14:20
Croesy Blue

Re: Thomas Cook

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice Swan

Government not allowed to bail out companies like TC, EU RULES........

Now if we were not in the EU we could do what we wanted......

That's not true
25-09-19, 14:32
Maurice Swan

Re: Thomas Cook

Yes it is.....the fact that other countries choose to sometimes ignore the EU rules is another matter.
25-09-19, 14:39
Croesy Blue

Re: Thomas Cook

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice Swan

Yes it is.....the fact that other countries choose to sometimes ignore the EU rules is another matter.

Link us to this rule then.

How come we bailed RBS out?
25-09-19, 14:55
Maurice Swan

Re: Thomas Cook

Well...you can read:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stat...uropean_Union)
and
https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-la...n-to-state-aid

As for RBS......ask Mr Blair.....
25-09-19, 15:04
rudy gestede

Re: Thomas Cook

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice Swan

Well...you can read:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stat...uropean_Union)
and
https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-la...n-to-state-aid

As for RBS......ask Mr Blair.....

But they don’t apply to Thomas cook?

Brown was in office for the bailout so not sure what Blair has to do with it.
25-09-19, 15:13
Maurice Swan

Re: Thomas Cook

No they don't......and Blair. Brown...both of the same mould.
25-09-19, 15:22
Croesy Blue

Re: Thomas Cook

I'm starting to think you aren't a reliable or neutral source
25-09-19, 15:24
Maurice Swan

Re: Thomas Cook

I am just stating facts.
25-09-19, 15:30
rudy gestede

Re: Thomas Cook

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice Swan

I am just stating facts.

You aren’t though
25-09-19, 15:32
Maurice Swan

Re: Thomas Cook

Yes I am...just READ the links fully. If you think I am wrong, tell me on what basis...ie links that say individual countries CAN bail out companies.,f
25-09-19, 15:36
Maurice Swan

Re: Thomas Cook

they don't
25-09-19, 15:37
Rjk

Re: Thomas Cook

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice Swan

Yes I am...just READ the links fully. If you think I am wrong, tell me on what basis...ie links that say individual countries CAN bail out companies.,f

You are wrong - the rules on state aid are usually used to stop states conferring an advantage to for example a manufacturer based in their borders at the detriment of competition to other manufacturers i.e. if we offered a subsidy on all cars made in the UK but not elsewhere in Europe.
Offering a secured loan to help an ailing business through a cashflow crisis wouldn't fall into the same category.
25-09-19, 15:39
rudy gestede

Re: Thomas Cook

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rjk

You are wrong - the rules on state aid are usually used to stop states conferring an advantage to for example a manufacturer based in their borders at the detriment of competition to other manufacturers i.e. if we offered a subsidy on all cars made in the UK but not elsewhere in Europe.
Offering a secured loan to help an ailing business through a cashflow crisis wouldn't fall into the same category.

Exactly
25-09-19, 15:46
Maurice Swan

Re: Thomas Cook

See also: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49781920
and
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...-a9116536.html (if you wish to subscribe)
25-09-19, 15:54
Rjk

Re: Thomas Cook

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice Swan

See also: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49781920
and
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...-a9116536.html (if you wish to subscribe)

The "after many years of EU governments rescuing sensitive industries" line should give you a clue.
They absolutely could have done it if they had wanted to, there have been many precidents, but the UK and especially this government is very beholden to the idea of the efficiency of the market and favours letting things run their course.
25-09-19, 15:57
Maurice Swan

Re: Thomas Cook

I tell you what...why don't you contact your local MP and ask the same question....

As I said..some countries ignore this..others don't (ie the UK)
25-09-19, 16:03
Rjk

Re: Thomas Cook

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice Swan

I tell you what...why don't you contact your local MP and ask the same question....

As I said..some countries ignore this..others don't (ie the UK)

I'd say it's more about interpretation of the rules rather than ignoring it or not. We choose to interpret the rules in a way that suits the ideology of this government. Other nations interpretation is different.

Not a lot of point in writing to my mp now is there?
25-09-19, 16:11
Maurice Swan

Re: Thomas Cook

That is what I said originally...the rules are that a government CANNOT bail out a failing company.....BUT some countries choose to take a different interpretation. I tell you what - I WILL contact my MP for the offiicial ruling and come back when received.
Maybe you can be troubled to do the same.
25-09-19, 17:06
Des Parrot

Re: Thomas Cook

Isn't this a meaningless debate? £3 billion in debt & the £200 million had a life expectancy of 90 days. Just wasting money delaying the inevitable. Step back to when they were given their (annual) license to operate, how the feck did that get through the auditors?
25-09-19, 17:35
Maurice Swan

Re: Thomas Cook

Yes I agree.....that is another reason why no bailout.
25-09-19, 18:23
Optimistic Nick

Re: Thomas Cook

Quote:

Originally Posted by Des Parrot

Isn't this a meaningless debate? £3 billion in debt & the £200 million had a life expectancy of 90 days. Just wasting money delaying the inevitable. Step back to when they were given their (annual) license to operate, how the feck did that get through the auditors?

The auditors don't assess whether they should get a license to operate. But I agree with your main point.
25-09-19, 18:26
Optimistic Nick

Re: Thomas Cook

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice Swan

That is what I said originally...the rules are that a government CANNOT bail out a failing company.....BUT some countries choose to take a different interpretation. I tell you what - I WILL contact my MP for the offiicial ruling and come back when received.
Maybe you can be troubled to do the same.

Do you think that Thomas cook should get a loan from govt? The state aid rules don't preclude that. But even if they did it would be a waste of public money to stand up a failed travel agen in any case.
25-09-19, 18:52
life on mars

Re: Thomas Cook

A private company has gone bust due to poor management ,market pressure and strategic decisions that failed , it won't be first wont be the last . Its not like a steel company going and thousands of lives and comm unties suffer ,our taxpayers money is best served in funding public services ,this is just another example of blame and making political capital as Corbyn did today.

Help the folk stranded and move on ,perhaps these airline industries should get together and introduce their own insurance protection fund instead of enjoying decades past of profit .
26-09-19, 10:38
Rjk

Re: Thomas Cook

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...pilots-461073/
26-09-19, 11:47
Baloo

Re: Thomas Cook

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rjk

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...pilots-461073/

Thomas Cook Northern Europe (Scandinavia) also back up-and-running due to bridging loan whilst looking for buyer.
26-09-19, 12:53
Rjk

Re: Thomas Cook

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baloo

Thomas Cook Northern Europe (Scandinavia) also back up-and-running due to bridging loan whilst looking for buyer.

Impossible, it is not allowed.
I wish these countries would check on this message board before they go ahead and do things like this, it would save them a lot of embarrassment in the long run
26-09-19, 13:33
William Treseder

Re: Thomas Cook

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rjk

Impossible, it is not allowed.
I wish these countries would check on this message board before they go ahead and do things like this, it would save them a lot of embarrassment in the long run

Who repays the bridging loan?
26-09-19, 14:03
Croesy Blue

Re: Thomas Cook

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Treseder

Who repays the bridging loan?

The company
26-09-19, 14:29
blue matt

Re: Thomas Cook

Quote:

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

The company

unless they cannot afford to / go bankrupt

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