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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
Absolutely. Im more than happy for a judge to decide someone of the ilk of the Ian Huntleys and Mick Philpotts of this world to be killed for the crimes they commited.
Im not endorsing we start killing every petty criminal but the ones who have been locked away for life because their crimes are deemed so bad. Get rid of them. Serves no purpose to pay to keep them alive.
.
Did the children Mick Philpott killed, his own children, get a say in wether they were worth killing or not?
I would have no problem with Mick Philpott being killed but it's not usually that simple. I also happen to think being locked up for his whole life is worse than just lights out and dead.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Someone killed my child /grandchild or abused them , or blew up innocent people in the name of some crap ideal , I would gladly kill them or watch them die in the hands of a justice system .
Which is why family members don't sentence criminals.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
I would have no problem with Mick Philpott being killed but it's not usually that simple. I also happen to think being locked up for his whole life is worse than just lights out and dead.
Well I disagree. Hes got a roof over his head and 3 square meals a day. A lot more than a lot of people in this country who didnt kill their own children have got.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
Well I disagree. Hes got a roof over his head and 3 square meals a day. A lot more than a lot of people in this country who didnt kill their own children have got.
But if he was dead he wouldn't even be aware of anything, isn't that the easy way out?
I think my main argument with it is in an ideal world with fair people giving fair judgements on criminals that were 100% guilty it could work. Unfortunately many people are wrongly convicted and poeple in power are often corrupt. As well as the fact it isn't a deterrant and is more expensive than life in prison it just doesn't seem worth it to me.
That's without the unconciou bias that means poorer people are more likely to be convicted of a crime.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Someone killed my child /grandchild or abused them , or blew up innocent people in the name of some crap ideal , I would gladly kill them or watch them die in the hands of a justice system .
Not just gladly kill bombers yourself, but in the case of the Birmingham 6 and the Guildford 4, save the country the embarrassment of releasing them when they had their innocence proved!
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
But if he was dead he wouldn't even be aware of anything, isn't that the easy way out?
I think my main argument with it is in an ideal world with fair people giving fair judgements on criminals that were 100% guilty it could work. Unfortunately many people are wrongly convicted and poeple in power are often corrupt. As well as the fact it isn't a deterrant and is more expensive than life in prison it just doesn't seem worth it to me.
That's without the unconciou bias that means poorer people are more likely to be convicted of a crime.
Do you really think the type of monsrer we are talking about are aware of anything and have a conscience?
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
Do you really think the type of monsrer we are talking about are aware of anything and have a conscience?
It's not really the point I'm making though is it, I don't care if a monster like that dies I just think the death penalty has too many flaws.
Also for me it t doesn't matter about conscience, if you're dead you've got away with it.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
I have honestly never read such rubbish in my whole life.
I haven’t opened this thread as I was dreading the boring arguing I expected to see, but fooking hell am I glad I did, just to read these posts by DV :hehe:
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
For those in favour, what crimes should be punished by the death penalty then? Where do we draw the line?
Taking shortcuts.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
So the vast majority on here are dead against (excuse the pun) the death penalty.
I am among that no. as well.
What I am for though in these cases like Sutcliffe, Huntley, Hindley, Brady etc is life in a small cell, with a toilet in it, and basic food like bread and water., with absolutely no privileges.
Anyone disagree with this?
Give them the bare minimum that is acceptable (you know you’ll get human rights protesters fighting for them)
Minimum food/water to keep them alive
Blanket OR pillow
No window and lights out early
Hour max to stretch their legs. Kept apart so they can’t talk
No visitors
Absolutely no mail/reading material etc.
As much as I’d like for them to be shot I don’t think I could agree with the DP.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
Give them the bare minimum that is acceptable (you know you’ll get human rights protesters fighting for them)
Minimum food/water to keep them alive
Blanket OR pillow
No window and lights out early
Hour max to stretch their legs. Kept apart so they can’t talk
No visitors
Absolutely no mail/reading material etc.
As much as I’d like for them to be shot I don’t think I could agree with the DP.
I'm not sure we gain anything by having a government that is prepared to treat people this way.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
I started this thread to see the great divide that would separate society if this was ever on the cards
We have seen both extreme sides of the argument
interesting to see that no-one is unhappy or losing any sleep about Richard Huckle being murdered, which does bring the prison justice being served argument into play
it has been discussed who would decide who gets executed and for what crimes
Surely no-one can think about saying Richard Huckle deserves to ever see the world as a free man, not even the most liberal in the world would
He is 100 % guilty and knew what he was doing
He is pure evil scum, If he is never going to see the outside world as a free man again, does he have a purpose in life ? ? no of course not
I find it amazing that people say that being locked up is enough punishment and worse than death, I guess Richard Huckle didnt think that as he was jailed in 2016 ( was inside from 2015 though ), he has had 4 years to top himself
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
Give them the bare minimum that is acceptable (you know you’ll get human rights protesters fighting for them)
Minimum food/water to keep them alive
Blanket OR pillow
No window and lights out early
Hour max to stretch their legs. Kept apart so they can’t talk
No visitors
Absolutely no mail/reading material etc.
As much as I’d like for them to be shot I don’t think I could agree with the DP.
We agree on something 👍
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
I'm not sure we gain anything by having a government that is prepared to treat people this way.
I take it you’d give them a coloured tv and access to a gym and a pool table?
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
We agree on something 👍
They don’t deserve any more.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
I'm not sure we gain anything by having a government that is prepared to treat people this way.
It would never happen.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blue matt
I started this thread to see the great divide that would separate society if this was ever on the cards
We have seen both extreme sides of the argument
interesting to see that no-one is unhappy or losing any sleep about Richard Huckle being murdered, which does bring the prison justice being served argument into play
it has been discussed who would decide who gets executed and for what crimes
Surely no-one can think about saying Richard Huckle deserves to ever see the world as a free man, not even the most liberal in the world would
He is 100 % guilty and knew what he was doing
He is pure evil scum, If he is never going to see the outside world as a free man again, does he have a purpose in life ? ? no of course not
I find it amazing that people say that being locked up is enough punishment and worse than death, I guess Richard Huckle didnt think that as he was jailed in 2016 ( was inside from 2015 though ), he has had 4 years to top himself
That’s because it was like living in a hotel.
4 walls to stare at for 24 hrs, only bread and water, and a shitter that only gets cleaned once a week.
Think he might consider doing himself in then.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
I can't believe we have moved from "shall we kill them?" to "shall we torture them?". The latter will inevitably lead to the former because it's already showing a complete lack of humanity, which is actually what you're saying should be punished in the first place.
It seems to be a conversation that it heading towards asking if the prison system is tough enough. It's certainly tough enough for people who don't want to commit crime and wouldn't be able to escape the consequences which leaves you with the people making the case for tougher sentences (at the moment it seems like this group are breaking rules/laws but can escape the consequences) because of those who are willing to commit crime (who have factored in the consequences already).
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
surge
I can't believe we have moved from "shall we kill them?" to "shall we torture them?". The latter will inevitably lead to the former because it's already showing a complete lack of humanity, which is actually what you're saying should be punished in the first place.
It seems to be a conversation that it heading towards asking if the prison system is tough enough. It's certainly tough enough for people who don't want to commit crime and wouldn't be able to escape the consequences which leaves you with the people making the case for tougher sentences (at the moment it seems like this group are breaking rules/laws but can escape the consequences) because of those who are willing to commit crime (who have factored in the consequences already).
Someone who touches kids or has images of them probably doesn’t even think of the consequences, because whatever it is that drives them on to be that way probably eliminates any sort of rational thinking from their sick heads.
It probably would be torture for them.
Oh well.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
surge
I can't believe we have moved from "shall we kill them?" to "shall we torture them?". The latter will inevitably lead to the former because it's already showing a complete lack of humanity, which is actually what you're saying should be punished in the first place.
It seems to be a conversation that it heading towards asking if the prison system is tough enough. It's certainly tough enough for people who don't want to commit crime and wouldn't be able to escape the consequences which leaves you with the people making the case for tougher sentences (at the moment it seems like this group are breaking rules/laws but can escape the consequences) because of those who are willing to commit crime (who have factored in the consequences already).
Who’s mentioned torture?
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
For those in favour, what crimes should be punished by the death penalty then? Where do we draw the line?
Serial killers and child rapists for a start. They are not human beings, they are vile rabid animals that need to be treated as such. Sexual predators caught grooming on line should have life imprisonment.
I'd be all for the option of keeping them locked up in a small cell with gruel, bread and water. If they were there until they die.
The sentences handed out are appalling (Child offenders). These animals will never be rehabilitated and they're let back out to re-offend.
I don't care if they go in, get stabbed/beat to death, die of old age or die via death penalty, when they go into prison they should never come back out.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
Who’s mentioned torture?
In the very next post:
"I'd be all for the option of keeping them locked up in a small cell with gruel, bread and water. If they were there until they die."
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
surge
I can't believe we have moved from "shall we kill them?" to "shall we torture them?". The latter will inevitably lead to the former because it's already showing a complete lack of humanity, which is actually what you're saying should be punished in the first place.
It seems to be a conversation that it heading towards asking if the prison system is tough enough. It's certainly tough enough for people who don't want to commit crime and wouldn't be able to escape the consequences which leaves you with the people making the case for tougher sentences (at the moment it seems like this group are breaking rules/laws but can escape the consequences) because of those who are willing to commit crime (who have factored in the consequences already).
The individual in the OP, and the sort of individuals further being discussed,don’t deserve to be called human and certainly don’t deserve to be treated with any sort of humanity.
We’re not talking about killing off or mistreating some petty criminal who turned to shoplifting or sells drugs to make a few quid and may have a chance of rehabilitation.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
surge
In the very next post:
"I'd be all for the option of keeping them locked up in a small cell with gruel, bread and water. If they were there until they die."
You think serial killers and child rapists deserve better?
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
David Vincent
Whether murderers deserve death is a separate question to how do we know if someone is guilty of murder. We don't have a good legal system and we don't know for certain if anyone is really guilty of any crime. But we still have to arrest and punish people.
We don't have perfect knowledge. I was once accused of something I didn't do. It wasn't anything to do with the police but if it had gone before a judge and a jury they would never have believed me. If I just had the facts of the incident I would never have believed my explanation. It was ridiculous but it was also true. It caused me some trouble at the time but it is all long ago and forgotten by everyone except myself. If the accusation had been murder I would have gone to gallows laughing at the bizarreness of it. I would have accepted that the judge and the jury had made the correct decision given the facts. We live in a world where injustice is bound to happen. The best we can do is find the wisest judges and juries. Maybe we should have IQ restrictions on who can sit in judge of us.
But fundamentally you are pro the death penalty and would like to see it brought back. I think that if you brought it back, by the law of averages there would inevitably at some point be a misscarriage of justice and that even just one of those is too many.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
surge
In the very next post:
"I'd be all for the option of keeping them locked up in a small cell with gruel, bread and water. If they were there until they die."
You made your remark before that post (obviously) so I’m guessing you were referring to being locked up 23 hours/ minimum food water/ no books and no visitors?
An ex of mine opened up to me about her Dad, who was a horrible bastard of a “man”. Saw her a few days ago, we still get along because I’m the only person she’s ever opened up to completely, and trust me she is still visibly tortured by it.
So if feeding them and sheltering them is “torture” then **** them.
I said no to the death penalty for a few reasons, one being that we don’t know what crimes/where does it all end. So people that support these monsters human rights, where do they end? How good are they allowed to have it?
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
The individual in the OP, and the sort of individuals further being discussed,don’t deserve to be called human and certainly don’t deserve to be treated with any sort of humanity.
We’re not talking about killing off or mistreating some petty criminal who turned to shoplifting or sells drugs to make a few quid and may have a chance of rehabilitation.
Honestly, some people.
No wonder there are people out there defending these monsters human rights. **** sake.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
That’s because it was like living in a hotel.
4 walls to stare at for 24 hrs, only bread and water, and a shitter that only gets cleaned once a week.
Think he might consider doing himself in then.
jesus, this thread is like a Harry Enfield sketch, You and a few others are giving the details a little to much thought.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
Honestly, some people.
No wonder there are people out there defending these monsters human rights. **** sake.
Lock em up Count of Monte Cristo style I say. Without the happy ending.
Then I’ll agree to it being a better alternative than the death sentence.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
Lock em up Count of Monte Cristo style I say. Without the happy ending.
Then I’ll agree to it being a better alternative than the death sentence.
Had to google that then. Not seen it..
Maybe to some I was over board with the no letters/visitors/books but I stand by it.
How nice do people want us to be to them?
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
jesus, this thread is like a Harry Enfield sketch, You and a few others are giving the details a little to much thought.
And your point is caller?
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
Had to google that then. Not seen it..
Maybe to some I was over board with the no letters/visitors/books but I stand by it.
How nice do people want us to be to them?
Good film. Watch it when you have a few hours to spare. :thumbup:
People just try be to so liberal they lose sight of the real issue.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
Good film. Watch it when you have a few hours to spare. :thumbup:
People just try be to so liberal they lose sight of the real issue.
Even better book though I guess the debate about crime and punishment have moved on since the 1850's!
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Try to make allowances for Dai Vincent 'cause he's as old as the hills. He's off his cake most of the time as staff at his care home will confirm. Poor sod wets himself more times per day than Liz and Phil the Greek combined do.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
Good film. Watch it when you have a few hours to spare. :thumbup:
People just try be to so liberal they lose sight of the real issue.
Will give it a go over the weekend, cheers.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Easy one , death penalty for child murders serious abuses , serial killers, mass terrorists like the Manchester arena,.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Organ Morgan.
Try to make allowances for Dai Vincent 'cause he's as old as the hills. He's off his cake most of the time as staff at his care home will confirm. Poor sod wets himself more times per day than Liz and Phil the Greek combined do.
Can we stick murders in care homes? They seem worse than prisons.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
Can we stick murders in care homes? They seem worse than prisons.
Thats all thanks to you and your ilk
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
David Vincent
We don't have perfect knowledge. I was once accused of something I didn't do. It wasn't anything to do with the police but if it had gone before a judge and a jury they would never have believed me. If I just had the facts of the incident I would never have believed my explanation. It was ridiculous but it was also true. It caused me some trouble at the time but it is all long ago and forgotten by everyone except myself. If the accusation had been murder I would have gone to gallows laughing at the bizarreness of it. I would have accepted that the judge and the jury had made the correct decision given the facts. We live in a world where injustice is bound to happen. The best we can do is find the wisest judges and juries. Maybe we should have IQ restrictions on who can sit in judge of us.
And that is getting to that stage of arrest and investigation! It is well known that the upper echelons of the rich and powerful are crawling with rapist, murders and especially child abusers. Whether it be, police, politicians, church and the royal families. Yet all these raging frothing at the mouth knee jerks on here won't lift a finger to help remove this protective layer. Just sneer from the sidelines and throw rotten fruit.
Prison. The rich never enter, the poor never leave.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
Thats all thanks to you and your ilk
I agree, it's definitely his fault
