I think one death in a gas oven, and knowing that one death is too many .Quote:
Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.
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I think one death in a gas oven, and knowing that one death is too many .Quote:
Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/s...-labo-1.490891
https://www.timesofisrael.com/polls-...te-for-labour/
Here are a couple of articles to show exactly how serious the problem is for labour .
Apparently 93% of Jews won't vote labour , and if anyone's read the comments by two posters here ,I expect the remaining 7% might be reconsidering
Official statistics estimate there to be under 300000 Jewish people living in England and Wales, that equates to about .53% of the population.
Given that possibly a third of those are children, not all will refuse to vote Labour and that the vast majority are concentrated in a select few Tory leaning constituencies, will it make any material difference to the overall result of the election if these people choose not to vote Labour?
Also, given that the overwhelming majority live in these Tory leaning constituencies then for tactical reasons it will probably help the cause immensely if they vote Lib Dem, assuming that as previous Labour voters they would baulk at voting Tory.
Hooray we might be able to get rid of this dreadful Government at last.
Ronnie, what is your opinion on Islamophobia amongst those parties that support Brexit most strongly?
Well in general Eric I'm not a fan of chasing people about perceived racism, but anti semitism is a special case because those who do it can take it to another level very quickly. There's a big difference between regular racism and something which draws its devotees to genocide.
I don't know much about islamophobia , but the name suggests being against a religion rather than a race. Just noticed that you associate it with Brexit , but I don't know why.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorcus
Interesting that you've been studying the demographics and keeping a list of where Jews live.
I think the point is that most decent people of all religions and cultures will refuse to support the marginalisation of Jews. Perhaps I am wrong - it happened in Germany - but I hope Britain is different in this respect
RonnieB... You don't half spout a large amount of shite, don't you?
Making out that you didn't think Corbyn made those comments event though you referred to him (and other comments he has previously made) throughout your response.
You also have the audacity to accuse others of being racist and anti-Semitic to divert attention away from yourself. The only anti-Semitic language used on this board recently had been by life on mars - but he gets a pass from you because he's in your "gang".
Didn't you previously say that using the "racism" card was all people could use when losing an argument. Maybe you were thinking of yourself there and projecting it onto others.
I've now been accused by you of being anti-Semitic with no evidence (it's beyond laughable to accuse me of any form of racism) and by another poster of being a rapist apologist. Both times it's because of you digging yourselves into a hole and can't debate your way out of it.
You don't like to be challenged and accuse others of trying to "silence" you when it happens. Very typical of a few posters on here.
I used to find your lack of self-awareness funny, to be honest, but you've crossed a line now like the other poster did. I blocked him and now I'm blocking you. It's simply impossible to engage with someone as lost as you are and there's no enjoyment to gain from mocking you anymore.
Ronnie I have been through this argument I'd leave it , the arguments and reasons are well known ,the investigations are proving that at least the old defense arguments , are changing from the old days of ""ooooh its just old disgruntled Blairites kicking off "". :hehe:
I'm sure there is Islamophobia with parties including the Tories we know Ironically it exists it quite a few some Labour Brextiers and in society .
The differences between two parties , Labour has admitted it exists in its deputy , and has said it need to be dealt with ,staff members at there HQ have been TV interviewed , the police and
EHRC are independently Investigating it .
That's all one can say really ,ones opinions have been superseded by actual events and facts all under investigation.
Heisenberg.........
No, I referred to Corbyns comments from the outset. You then posted something about Nigel Farage saying something else. The two were never confused and if you think I said I didn't know Corbyn made the original comment I suggest that you read over it.
Similarly, it wasn't you I was referring to as being anti Semitic but if the cap fits wear it I suppose.
I often had to advise clients not to deny things until they'd been accused of them because it's a bit of a giveaway isn't it ?
You haven't really blocked me of course, but you can't really answer any of that now without showing out. Not very bright is it ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Yes, well actually I know an ex Lambeth labour councillor who's privately nuts about Moslems so I'm sure that's not confined to any party and indeed nor is anti semitism.
As you say, the difference is when one party denies/ justifies it, when it's so widespread that it needs official investigations to be launched, and when grass roots labour voters jump in to deny/ justify the problem .
Is it Israel that is behind all this trying to discredit Labour thing that seems to be going on ?
I think you've hit the nail on the head Trampie; to me this feels like it's got Binjamin Netanjahu's fingerprints all over it. I wonder if our friend Ronnie is a secret Mossad agent?Quote:
Originally Posted by trampie09
Yes and I also wonder, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorcus
Third rate wind up merchant is my bet but I only see a fraction of his nonsense so you could be right!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorcus
This is where I lose your thread. The bit I have bolded (independent investigations aside), is that not a positive? The party have acknowledged it's existence as an issue and done almost everything they have been asked to do to try to fix it, maybe they aren't making the progress you would hope but every time you bring internal investigations and suspensions/expulsions up it seems to be as a stick to beat the leadership/party with when really it proves they are making attempts to tackle it.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
What "clients" were those Phil? Were these on your newspaper round or when you were cleaning dustbins?Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieBird
The irony of this whole thread is your position on Holocaust denial is perfectly aligned with Miko Peled. One of the original and major examples used across print media and TV of antisemitism within the Labour party (beyond random members and councillors tweeting nonsense) arose after Peled was given a platform at a labour fringe event.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieBird
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...rks-miko-peled
As I implied or said in that post, there's a difference between being tolerant of stuff for the sake of free speech and using it as a tool to inflame neo Nazis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorcus
So interesting that you speak of manual workers as if they're shit beneath your shoes - so typical of theoretical socialists .
No, these were criminals - stalkers and such
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorcus
I don't think Mossad are likely to try and influence a football forum, they've got far more important work.
People who deliver newspapers in inclement weather and people cleaning the shit out of dustbins are heroes in my opinion. I think your mind is playing tricks on you because I've never implied otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieBird
If Mossad wanted to discredit or otherwise **** up a political party, they'd certainly do something a lot stronger than that TrampieQuote:
Originally Posted by trampie09
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorcus
Bollocks ! You were trying to put me down by calling me a dustman and the only inference from that is that you think dustmen are some kind of scum.
Words have meanings and you're particularly prone to giving away your true motives by using them so basically. You know, when you call Jewish people , " your sort" ..... that kind of thing.
Like the King David Hotel type of thing is it ?Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieBird
Calm down Phil, your imagination is running away with you. I was actually trying to salute you for doing a real job. Do you think you suffer from some preoccupation with self worth?Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieBird
No. Do you think you bother me ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorcus
It's most unsavoury the way you stalk someone and try to dent their self esteem and try to make them worry about you spying on them, but I'm afraid you've picked an impossible target with me because I'm very comfortable and generally regarded as very accomplished.
As I've said before , I've dealt professionally - in one way or another - with people like you before, so I know exactly where you stand in the food chain , and the pathetic little games you try to play.
I've also told you before that you should have a word with yourself about this conduct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trampie09
That's a whole subject in itself, and I not only disapprove of it, but regard it as having been a most unwise action by those responsible.
I'd say that it was a long time ago, but to those who suffered as a result that is no comfort.
It was perhaps the first terrorist act of modern times, and we know for a fact that it provided the model for the actions of Palestinian terrorists against Jews for a long long time to come.
Some believe that it also came into the thinking of PIRA and INLA too.
I think you're getting overwrought Philip. You've even invented me as a stalker now? What dreadful fitful sleep do you endure? I shan't engage with you anymore tonight, I can see the stress is getting to you. I hope you feel a lot better tomorrowQuote:
Originally Posted by RonnieBird
They did the Sergeant killings as well, hang British soldiers and booby trapped the area around the bodies to try and kill more British people when we cut their bodies down, both events just after the war against Hitler and everything we did to try and help them and that's how they repaid us.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieBird
Actually I've has a very nice day thank you very much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorcus
Quote:
Originally Posted by trampie09
I think it's perhaps a bit more complicated than that. When you say "they", you do know that there were Jewish people in the British Army and Palestine Police don't you ?
It was a terrible time, and the losses were far worse than people appreciate now .
Also, I assume you know that helping the Jews played no part whatever in the decisions of GB , the USA and the USSR to fight Germany? Of course it was beneficial to Jews that the allied forces released those still alive and treated them kindly, but they could hardly have left them in the camps could they ?
As touched upon by Trampie, there were many others in the camps such as Russians and Slavs.
I think you'll find that British Jews fought against Germany because they were British.
This is another thing which should probably be its own thread.
Ronnie a 100,000 German Jews fought for the Kaiser against the British in the Great War, most volunteered, some Jews fought for our side in ww1 but a large proportion of the Jewish population in Germany at the time fought against us, some also fought against us as well as for us in the ww2.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieBird
I would personally say nationality and religion is an accident of birth.
I think its fits a narrative and a vote a lot of folk dislike the jew or what it stands for mainly in he name of jealousy and success and that may appeal to voters , so why close it down completely and deliver a real discipline like life bans for the party ,I wonder how long it is before we see Livingstone and Chris Williamson re admitted ?Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieBird
Yes, I think Mossard have more pressing matters at hand , and as you say , we will know soon enough if and when they decide to act .Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieBird
What, in your opinion, did Chris Williamson MP say or do that was anti-semitic?Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Surely saying that anti-semitism is a special case implies that it is more important to deal with anti-semitism than islamaphobia, and therefore the Jews are more important than Muslims. Racism should be called out and dealt with irrespective of who the intended target is.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieBird
Anti Semitism is certainly not a special case, all racism should be treated the same, other groups have suffered over the years Armenians, Kurds, Irish etc, I think all people are equal, do Jewish people believe they are a chosen people or something ?, they should be treated no better or no worse than anyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieBird
PS There is no such thing as a Jewish race, its just a religion.
No, it's not saying that at all.
I think many people, including Jews , are often much too thin skinned about perceived racism. What we're talking about here is a political philosophy which holds a particular race to be bad, and that's important because we have seen it lead to serious persecution and genocide in fairly recent times.
There's no history of Moslems being rounded up , imprisoned and executed by European socialists in modern times, and we aren't hearing it said then defended by a particular extremist political party.
It's also true to say that Islam is a religion rather than a race, so it's not quite the same thing, and without defending any unreasonable behaviour, it is true that some Moslems have acted violently against civilians in democratic countries. Therefore ,some hostility toward them might be connected to this fact. Jews, on the other hand ,commit no offence except for being Jews.
You can also see this in the Middle East, where a conflict exists between the only democracy in the region and radical Islam with all its cruel behaviour and jihad against civilians and liberal laws. Corbyn and Labour supports the side which executes homosexuals, stones women to death for being raped and encourages wife beating.
They don't support these things anywhere else, so we must wonder whether they do so simply because the side opposing them are Jews.
In short though, anti semitism is particularly important only because we know that it presents a real physical danger to millions of people.
Ps. I just noticed that you claim there's no Jewish race, and that's just wrong
If you're referring to the holocaust, then there is no history of Jews being rounded up, imprisoned and executed by European socialists either.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieBird
Again you are saying that anti-semitism is more important to deal with than islamophobia. There has been a huge surge in the numbers of anti-islam attacks in this country over recent years, this is important to deal with as well and is no less important than attacks on Jews and their communities.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieBird