Boris The Sh*thouse

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Originally Posted by dml1954

I would rather a shit house coward be in charge of the country than Jeremy Corbyn and John Mcdonnell. That says it all for me.

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Dear God!!

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

I reckon that people need to take a look at what's going on around them. People freezing to death on the streets, working people in poverty and having to use food banks,waiting lists going up due to cuts, mental health across the nation suffering, effective wage cuts for all, the sick, elderly and vulnerable not able to get the support they need due to massive budget cuts to local authorities, enforced by Westminster, young people having no chance of affordable housing, zero hour contracts where people can't plan their future as they have no idea if they're going to have any work next week. The Tories don't care about any of those people who have been screwed due to an ideology that is designed to destroy the working classes and cosy up to big business and bosses. Boris wants out of the EU because of regulation, the regulation implemented by the EU simply isn't right wing enough for him, he wants to deregulate further so that the poor end up poorer and him and his mates can exploit even more people for profit.

Don't vote for the evil bastards

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How does what you say square with the fact that employment is currently at its highest rate (76%) since records were started to be kept in 1971. Unemployment rates are also at their lowest since about 1974 (3.8%). The economy is therefore doing rather well. Also most of the problems you outline were caused by the last Labour Government almost bankrupting the country pre 2010.

The Tories have concluded that springing Boris loose everywhere yelping ‘Get Brexit done’ will probably be enough to secure a majority. Scrutiny can only damage their chances.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

How does what you say square with the fact that employment is currently at its highest rate (76%) since records were started to be kept in 1971. Unemployment rates are also at their lowest since about 1974 (3.8%). The economy is therefore doing rather well. Also most of the problems you outline were caused by the last Labour Government almost bankrupting the country pre 2010.

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We had a worldwide economic recession and the banks crashed ......was labour responsible for the economic problems at the time in america , Canada , Germany , France etc ?

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

I disagree, we have a less caring population who seem to think that paying tax towards good services that will benefit all of us is a bad idea and a society that celebrates the super rich. We have become greedy and self centred.

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I agree entirely , it began with thatcher and has been a problem ever since

The issue we have is how we get a centre left administration in to implement to turn things round

Corbyn won't do it

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Originally Posted by dml1954

How does what you say square with the fact that employment is currently at its highest rate (76%) since records were started to be kept in 1971. Unemployment rates are also at their lowest since about 1974 (3.8%). The economy is therefore doing rather well. Also most of the problems you outline were caused by the last Labour Government almost bankrupting the country pre 2010.

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How about the current government forcing people to take poverty line jobs on zero hour contracts because they'll have their benefits cut, they are probably worse off working, have no structure and minimal working conditions, people are becoming poorer if you care to look but the stats can add up to anything that the Tory bastards want them to. The Economy usually means sweet FA to the poorest and most vulnerable, gig economy jobs that are propped up with welfare payments keep people poor, but these people are off the statistics. Good for government and good for the Businesses who employ these people.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

We had a worldwide economic recession and the banks crashed ......was labour responsible for the economic problems at the time in america , Canada , Germany , France etc ?

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No but they did preside over the bank situation here and did leave a note in 2010 saying that they had spent all the money on their reckless policies.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

No but they did preside over the bank situation here and did leave a note in 2010 saying that they had spent all the money on their reckless policies.

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New Labour were Tory, Blair would've made Thatcher Proud.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I agree entirely , it began with thatcher and has been a problem ever since

The issue we have is how we get a centre left administration in to implement to turn things round

Corbyn won't do it

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Corbyn wont be allowed to do it, not by the media or the Parliamentary Labour party. The members overwhelmingly say yes.

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

Sweden is very different to the UK. For a start only 10 m people, a much smaller economy. They spend very little on police and military, most of the tax collected goes on social security, health and education. Their centre left politics ensure that social benefits etc are good but the price they pay is a tax rate of 50-60%....not just the rich...but the many.
I don't thin k that would go down well in UK, do you?

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and 20 quid a pint

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

How about the current government forcing people to take poverty line jobs on zero hour contracts because they'll have their benefits cut, they are probably worse off working, have no structure and minimal working conditions, people are becoming poorer if you care to look but the stats can add up to anything that the Tory bastards want them to. The Economy usually means sweet FA to the poorest and most vulnerable, gig economy jobs that are propped up with welfare payments keep people poor, but these people are off the statistics. Good for government and good for the Businesses who employ these people.

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Zero hour contracts came to the fore between 2004 and 2009 (I know because I was one of the people who was made redundant at the time and put onto one by my employers) so this is not a Tory invention. It was as a result of the Countries financial problems at the time, presided over by a Labour Government, with many companies struggling and large numbers of properties being repossessed. The vast majority of jobs created since 2015 have been full or part time positions and at the same time tax free allowances and national/living wage rates have been increased dramatically, so it cannot possibly be said that the Economy has been poorly run in the last nine years.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

No but they did preside over the bank situation here and did leave a note in 2010 saying that they had spent all the money on their reckless policies.

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Well one bloke left , as is tradition , a note to the incoming chancellor

If it wasn't for gordan brown regulating the banks which your Tory lot voted against !!!!.........things would have been so much worse

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Well one bloke left , as is tradition , a note to the incoming chancellor

If it wasn't for gordan brown regulating the banks which your Tory lot voted against !!!!.........things would have been so much worse

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Yes and he also sold off most of the countries gold reserves cheaply and lost us billions of pounds in the process, so he deserves a special amount of praise for that !!!

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Originally Posted by dml1954

How does what you say square with the fact that employment is currently at its highest rate (76%) since records were started to be kept in 1971. Unemployment rates are also at their lowest since about 1974 (3.8%). The economy is therefore doing rather well. Also most of the problems you outline were caused by the last Labour Government almost bankrupting the country pre 2010.

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Sssh you cant say that, the financial crash didn't happen ,Ireland , Iceland and Greece didn't need bailing out , cost went up 10%, we were prepared for any crash , and austerity was not needed , and that note left by Labours Liam Byrne , which said "there's no money left" was a simple joke ,cause we had loads of dosh and quantity easing wasn't needed

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Originally Posted by splott parker

Re. The Waspi promise, ok it’ll cost a lot of money but shouldn’t a few subtractions be made? What about the women who’ve passed away since the age increase? What about the extra tax and N.I. that’s been paid into the system by women who’ve had to carry on working from the age of 60 to 65? What about pension top up schemes that the women in this age group haven’t been able to claim as they aren’t now of retirement age? These women deserve it a bit more than bankers who were bailed out for much, much more than the cost of this. How much did this evil government pay to the DUP to shore them up? How much did the ridiculous referendum cost when the in or out should have been decided by people who we pay to make these vital, life changing decisions, our elected MPs? Money is wasted left, right & centre but this isn’t a waste if it’s reimbursed, it’s a moral duty by a country that has failed & conned human beings, very important to remember the people, they do matter.

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You are talking my language but are you saying that everyone who had their retirement age moved should be reimbursed?

My mum fits into the category that waspi are campaigning to help but she doesn't think she is entitled, for a start she doesn't need the money and she also feels she was given enough notice. She believes that there are people entitled to be reimbursed, but that it is far below the figure cited by waspi.

Agree fully with the principle that money has been spent or far less worthy causes but i think in the context of other more poignant causes I don't feel this is worth saddling the next generation with having to pay for it (especially since we will likely retire at 70+ despite having a similar life expectancy...)

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Originally Posted by dml1954

Zero hour contracts came to the fore between 2004 and 2009 (I know because I was one of the people who was made redundant at the time and put onto one by my employers) so this is not a Tory invention. It was as a result of the Countries financial problems at the time, presided over by a Labour Government, with many companies struggling and large numbers of properties being repossessed. The vast majority of jobs created since 2015 have been full or part time positions and at the same time tax free allowances and national/living wage rates have been increased dramatically, so it cannot possibly be said that the Economy has been poorly run in the last nine years.

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I am trying to work out if you are joking or not.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Well one bloke left , as is tradition , a note to the incoming chancellor

If it wasn't for gordan brown regulating the banks which your Tory lot voted against !!!!.........things would have been so much worse

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How do you know that its my Tory lot by the way - I have voted for a number of different parties in the past but there is more chance of hell freezing over than me voting for these current ‘Labour bastards’ with their stalinist, anti-semitic, terrorist loving leader, shadow chancellor and policies designed to bankrupt the country.

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

I am trying to work out if you are joking or not.

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Nope - sorry. Its not mandatory for all City supporters to be Socialist/Communists is it ?

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

He never said his dad was on average wage, he said he was a docker. Remember that was a nationalised industry and every time they wanted more money they went on strike until the government gave in to them. Once the rail water gas etc are re-nationalised it will be just like before, overmanned with no incentive to do better and if like in the south West this month, the rail men go on strike then they will be joined by the rest of the rail men all over the country, and everything will grind to a halt until the government gives in and gives them more money and we'll be back where we started and a 3 day week.

The principle of nationalisation is fantastic but sadly the reality is the many frequently held to ransom by the few!

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Agree with that. The 3 day week brought about by miners strikes ended when they got a 35% pay rise. A year or two later they got the same again. The few holding the many to ransom

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Originally Posted by dml1954

Nope - sorry. Its not mandatory for all City supporters to be Socialist/Communists is it ?

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Don't be a little boy. I am just struggling to think of an economic target that the Conservatives set themselves and then subsequently hit, on time. Seems to me that it is hard to claim undeniable success when they didn't even achieve their own aims.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

Zero hour contracts came to the fore between 2004 and 2009 (I know because I was one of the people who was made redundant at the time and put onto one by my employers) so this is not a Tory invention. It was as a result of the Countries financial problems at the time, presided over by a Labour Government, with many companies struggling and large numbers of properties being repossessed. The vast majority of jobs created since 2015 have been full or part time positions and at the same time tax free allowances and national/living wage rates have been increased dramatically, so it cannot possibly be said that the Economy has been poorly run in the last nine years.

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By what measure was the country in financial problems between 2004 and 2007?

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Originally Posted by dml1954

How do you know that its my Tory lot by the way - I have voted for a number of different parties in the past but there is more chance of hell freezing over than me voting for these current ‘Labour bastards’ with their stalinist, anti-semitic, terrorist loving leader, shadow chancellor and policies designed to bankrupt the country.

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Time out needed for this little tyke.

Can you imagine the leader of your country hiding away in a fridge! He is a pathetic, nasty, self entitled prick. Unfortunately our media are complicit in his rise particularly the abject BBC. I dread the next five years of hard right wing policies.
It’s going to be very rough.

Speaking of the BBC... (you can't embed tweets on here, can you?)

https://twitter.com/SocialistBloke/s...27659013898241

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

I disagree, we have a less caring population who seem to think that paying tax towards good services that will benefit all of us is a bad idea and a society that celebrates the super rich. We have become greedy and self centred.

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Suppose every day ten men go into a bar and the bill for the drinks comes to £100. If they paid the bill the way we pay our taxes it would go something like this...
The first four men ( the poorest) would pay nothing
The fifth would pay £1
The sixth would pay £3
The seventh would pay £7
The eighth would pay £12
The ninth would pay £18
the tenth ( the richest) would pay £59
So that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed happy with the arrangement until one day the owner said that they have been good customers so the bar bill will be reduced in the future to £80
The group still wanted to pay the bill the way we pay taxes...so the first four men were unaffected, They would drink for free.
But what of the other six? The paying customers.
How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone had their fair share?
They realised that £20 divided by six is £3.33. But if they subtracted that from each share the sixth man would end up being paid to drink his beer.
So they decided that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was.
So the fifth man, like the first four paid nothing ( 100%)
The sixth paid £2 instead of £3 ( saving 33%)
The seventh paid £5 instead of £7 ( saving 28%)
The eighth paid £9 instead of £12 (saving25%)
The ninth paid £14 instead of £18 (22%)
The tenth( the richest) paid £49 instead of £59 (16%)
Each of the six was better off than before and all was well until the sixth man said ..I only saved £1 of the £20
That's right said the fifth man, I saved £1 too, but he got £10 back
True said the seventh man, he got £10 and I got £2...The rich get all the breaks
Wait a minute said the first four men...We got nothing at all. This just exploits the poor
So...the nine men surrounded the tenth man and beat him up.
The next day they met again at the bar but the tenth man didn't show. And when it came to pay the bill they discovered that without him they didn't have enough money to pay even half the bill.
So that boys and girls, MPs and journalists is how the tax system works.
The people who pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much and they may just not show up anymore
For those who understand no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible

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Originally Posted by dml1954

How do you know that its my Tory lot by the way - I have voted for a number of different parties in the past but there is more chance of hell freezing over than me voting for these current ‘Labour bastards’ with their stalinist, anti-semitic, terrorist loving leader, shadow chancellor and policies designed to bankrupt the country.

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Someone's been brainwashed by the Daily Mail

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

I disagree, we have a less caring population who seem to think that paying tax towards good services that will benefit all of us is a bad idea and a society that celebrates the super rich. We have become greedy and self centred.

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:xmasthumbup:

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

We had a worldwide economic recession and the banks crashed ......was labour responsible for the economic problems at the time in america , Canada , Germany , France etc ?

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No the banking collapse wasn't the fault of the Labour government but the fact that we had no money to protect ourselves was the fault of Gordon Brown who, despite his claims of balancing the budgets spent so much money that instead of having the surplus the government had actually earned by its policies we had to take on a huge debt to protect our country . An example is selling of the gold reserves at about the lowest price for gold in donkeys years when he had no financial need to sell it at all.
People still remember the note left by an outgoing labour minister, "All the money's gone"
The worst thing of all was that all the things he did were not because of any ideology but purely to piss of Tony Blair because he wanted his job.
A job that when he got it he found he couldn't do it.

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Originally Posted by Pearcey3

Can you imagine the leader of your country hiding away in a fridge! He is a pathetic, nasty, self entitled prick. Unfortunately our media are complicit in his rise particularly the abject BBC. I dread the next five years of hard right wing policies.
It’s going to be very rough.

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Your first sentence says it all, but I will add Johnson's very strange reaction of taking a reporter's phone and sticking it in his pocket when being asked an awkward question - did he think doing that would bring his tricky situation to an end? Leaving aside the litany of dubious and dodgy aspects of his professional and private life, who would want someone who behaves in such a bizarre manner running this country?

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

Suppose every day ten men go into a bar and the bill for the drinks comes to £100. If they paid the bill the way we pay our taxes it would go something like this...
The first four men ( the poorest) would pay nothing
The fifth would pay £1
The sixth would pay £3
The seventh would pay £7
The eighth would pay £12
The ninth would pay £18
the tenth ( the richest) would pay £59
So that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed happy with the arrangement until one day the owner said that they have been good customers so the bar bill will be reduced in the future to £80
The group still wanted to pay the bill the way we pay taxes...so the first four men were unaffected, They would drink for free.
But what of the other six? The paying customers.
How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone had their fair share?
They realised that £20 divided by six is £3.33. But if they subtracted that from each share the sixth man would end up being paid to drink his beer.
So they decided that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was.
So the fifth man, like the first four paid nothing ( 100%)
The sixth paid £2 instead of £3 ( saving 33%)
The seventh paid £5 instead of £7 ( saving 28%)
The eighth paid £9 instead of £12 (saving25%)
The ninth paid £14 instead of £18 (22%)
The tenth( the richest) paid £49 instead of £59 (16%)
Each of the six was better off than before and all was well until the sixth man said ..I only saved £1 of the £20
That's right said the fifth man, I saved £1 too, but he got £10 back
True said the seventh man, he got £10 and I got £2...The rich get all the breaks
Wait a minute said the first four men...We got nothing at all. This just exploits the poor
So...the nine men surrounded the tenth man and beat him up.
The next day they met again at the bar but the tenth man didn't show. And when it came to pay the bill they discovered that without him they didn't have enough money to pay even half the bill.
So that boys and girls, MPs and journalists is how the tax system works.
The people who pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much and they may just not show up anymore
For those who understand no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible

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It's a pretty shit analogy.

Directly they are recieving the same thing (the pint) but it doesn't take into account the additional significant indirect benefits that the richer members of society experience when paying for vital services, these are exponential.

Take a future billionaire at 3 years old and stick him in Somalia, does he still become a billionaire? Very unlikely... That billionaire has benefited incredibly from just being in the UK and continues to do so as they do business.

This video was from when Boris was in the Tory leadership contest a few months back, but the point made in it rings true for this election campaign.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1150350076377739266

Someone should've locked him the fridge when the coward hid in it.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

The vast majority of jobs created since 2015 have been full or part time positions

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Evidence?

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

It's a pretty shit analogy.

Directly they are recieving the same thing (the pint) but it doesn't take into account the additional significant indirect benefits that the richer members of society experience when paying for vital services, these are exponential.

Take a future billionaire at 3 years old and stick him in Somalia, does he still become a billionaire? Very unlikely... That billionaire has benefited incredibly from just being in the UK and continues to do so as they do business.

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Well that analogy isn't too bright either. But in your hypothetical example I guess it shows that the UK is a place where people can flourish

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

Suppose every day ten men go into a bar and the bill for the drinks comes to £100. If they paid the bill the way we pay our taxes it would go something like this...
The first four men ( the poorest) would pay nothing
The fifth would pay £1
The sixth would pay £3
The seventh would pay £7
The eighth would pay £12
The ninth would pay £18
the tenth ( the richest) would pay £59
So that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed happy with the arrangement until one day the owner said that they have been good customers so the bar bill will be reduced in the future to £80
The group still wanted to pay the bill the way we pay taxes...so the first four men were unaffected, They would drink for free.
But what of the other six? The paying customers.
How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone had their fair share?
They realised that £20 divided by six is £3.33. But if they subtracted that from each share the sixth man would end up being paid to drink his beer.
So they decided that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was.
So the fifth man, like the first four paid nothing ( 100%)
The sixth paid £2 instead of £3 ( saving 33%)
The seventh paid £5 instead of £7 ( saving 28%)
The eighth paid £9 instead of £12 (saving25%)
The ninth paid £14 instead of £18 (22%)
The tenth( the richest) paid £49 instead of £59 (16%)
Each of the six was better off than before and all was well until the sixth man said ..I only saved £1 of the £20
That's right said the fifth man, I saved £1 too, but he got £10 back
True said the seventh man, he got £10 and I got £2...The rich get all the breaks
Wait a minute said the first four men...We got nothing at all. This just exploits the poor
So...the nine men surrounded the tenth man and beat him up.
The next day they met again at the bar but the tenth man didn't show. And when it came to pay the bill they discovered that without him they didn't have enough money to pay even half the bill.
So that boys and girls, MPs and journalists is how the tax system works.
The people who pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much and they may just not show up anymore
For those who understand no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible

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While all the men ended up with more money in their pockets, the landlord had less money coming into the pub. He laid off bar staff to save money but people complained about the poorer service and less people came into his pub. To combat this, he offered the 10 guys the same drinks for £50, saving them even more, but his pub crumbled away as he could no longer afford to maintain or invest in it.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

While all the men ended up with more money in their pockets, the landlord had less money coming into the pub. He laid off bar staff to save money but people complained about the poorer service and less people came into his pub. To combat this, he offered the 10 guys the same drinks for £50, saving them even more, but his pub crumbled away as he could no longer afford to maintain or invest in it.

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Tell that to Wetherspoons.

When Britian went Bust is a good read. Labour government 1964 to 1969 interest rates were at 26%, subsequent Labour government had to go to the EMF to be bailed out, then we had continuous strikes due to the control exercised by the Unions. Every time Labour leaves office there is a financial crisis of one sort or another and the same could well happen again with Labour's proposed borrowings with their so called fully costed manifesto which conveniently omits the £58m to fund the WASPI women. Labour has been in continuous control in Wales and takes the Welsh vote for granted and has done little for the Principality. Even the Cardiff Bay Barrage was a Tory funded initiative. The problem with the current election is that we have 3 of the worst leaders in living memory and when it comes down to it is a question of voting for the least worst option.

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

Well that analogy isn't too bright either. But in your hypothetical example I guess it shows that the UK is a place where people can flourish

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Yeah, because of progressive taxation paying for public services, not in spite of it.

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

Don't be a little boy. I am just struggling to think of an economic target that the Conservatives set themselves and then subsequently hit, on time. Seems to me that it is hard to claim undeniable success when they didn't even achieve their own aims.

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Who does ? At least they have a go. Labour don't even bother to try e.g. Brexit - a clear committment in their manifesto

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Originally Posted by Pearcey3

Can you imagine the leader of your country hiding away in a fridge! He is a pathetic, nasty, self entitled prick. Unfortunately our media are complicit in his rise particularly the abject BBC. I dread the next five years of hard right wing policies.
It’s going to be very rough.

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Thats your opinion and you are entitled to it but I see the exact opposite. I dread five years of the country being run into the ground and bankrupted again by Labour. As usual, other people would have to pick up the bill, sort it out and get nothing but criticism for trying.

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Originally Posted by Vindec

When Britian went Bust is a good read. Labour government 1964 to 1969 interest rates were at 26%, subsequent Labour government had to go to the EMF to be bailed out, then we had continuous strikes due to the control exercised by the Unions. Every time Labour leaves office there is a financial crisis of one sort or another and the same could well happen again with Labour's proposed borrowings with their so called fully costed manifesto which conveniently omits the £58m to fund the WASPI women. Labour has been in continuous control in Wales and takes the Welsh vote for granted and has done little for the Principality. Even the Cardiff Bay Barrage was a Tory funded initiative. The problem with the current election is that we have 3 of the worst leaders in living memory and when it comes down to it is a question of voting for the least worst option.

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Agree totally with this.