This NHS app

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Or people could download something better that would be of benefit not to Britain but further afield as well.

---

What do you suggest?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

56% is a figure quoted by a body of Oxford University academics advising NHSX: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52294896

Mentioned in that article is the fact that only 12% of the population of Singapore used a similar tracking system - and that country is arguably more compliant than the UK population and at least as IT savvy, I would guess.

---

The app has had success in Singapore. I am a bit surprised to see that only 12% of the population used it. Maybe the 60% sign up is being used as a prompter to get more people to sign up.

However, the overriding sentiment here is that it will fail, and it is based on little more than anecdotal evidence based on each poster's own reluctance to sign up. If people are using that as a reason to not use the app, then I think we are going into the grounds of confirmation bias.

I think the UK population will be more receptive, I hope so anyway, and I think they will be more open minded. Saying that, with the increased use of traffic, maybe people are reluctant to install an app that may show they are breaching the guidelines despite their repeated insistence that they are model citizens.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I was listening to a specialist in the sort of tech involved being interviewed on 5 Live yesterday about the app. She was concerned that the Government were trying to run before they could walk on this subject and that the App needed to be part of coordinated plan which she said was not in place yet and she also thought there would be problems because the app used a system that only the French one would be compatible with thereby putting us out of step with most other countries who were using a different system.

I don't know enough about the App to have an opinion on it either way yet and so am not sure whether I'd use it or not, but what I do want to say is that this professor was an American who now lives in this country and many of the negative responses she got back were purely because she was a foreigner. There was also the usual why are the BBC so negative, they should support the Government stuff, along with the implication that anyone who is critical of the Government is somehow being unpatriotic.

With very little respect, that's exactly how you come over, your opinions sound like they are based on blind, unquestioning loyalty to the Government and you are incredulous that anyone could think differently to you.

---

My opinions are based upon wanting to help the Government sort out the situation that we find ourselves in and help get the country up and running again as soon as possible. Nothing that I have heard or read about the app they are using makes me worry about losing any privacy and even if it did, that is a small price to pay. The app is also under trial now and can be amended or improved as necessary before it is rolled out to the rest of us. It was designed by the NHS with security input from GCHQ, both good enough for me. If Labour were in charge and brought this forward, I would feel exactly the same way, so how you can accuse me of unquestioning loyalty to the current Government is just silly. People who don't want to get involved appear to have a distrust of anything the current Government try to do, so surely it is them that are being politically biased. The first four words of your final paragraph are also totally unnecessary, confirming your general condescending attitude to anything anyone who disagrees with your viewpoint posts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I wonder what percentage of the population would need to download it to make it genuinely worthwhile?

Personally, I'm not at all comfortable with something I firmly believe is pie in the sky from the outset being used by this hopeless government as an excuse to either extend the lockdown or as an excuse for a higher death rate (ie: "well, they wouldn't download the app, so it's the public's fault.").

---

66% has been quoted in the past.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I was listening to a specialist in the sort of tech involved being interviewed on 5 Live yesterday about the app. She was concerned that the Government were trying to run before they could walk on this subject and that the App needed to be part of coordinated plan which she said was not in place yet and she also thought there would be problems because the app used a system that only the French one would be compatible with thereby putting us out of step with most other countries who were using a different system.

I don't know enough about the App to have an opinion on it either way yet and so am not sure whether I'd use it or not, but what I do want to say is that this professor was an American who now lives in this country and many of the negative responses she got back were purely because she was a foreigner. There was also the usual why are the BBC so negative, they should support the Government stuff, along with the implication that anyone who is critical of the Government is somehow being unpatriotic.

With very little respect, that's exactly how you come over, your opinions sound like they are based on blind, unquestioning loyalty to the Government and you are incredulous that anyone could think differently to you.

---

With regard to the app compared to other countries I don't see the relevance. The app is for people in this country. They could simply instruct anyone arriving by sea or air to download the app before leaving the terminal. clearly some may not have android phones but I imagine the vast majority would have. There is no reason for it to be compatible with other countries at all.

The comment about people saying the BBC is negative is because there are so many people being interview who say this or that is bad, perhaps disproportionate to those saying it is good, so some people have the opinion that if so-and-so "Expert" thought the thing in question was good they wouldn't be on the programme, that they only inivite people who will critisise. Whether that is true or not is another matter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dml1954

confirming your general condescending attitude to anything anyone who disagrees with your viewpoint posts.

---

Is this the most ironic sentence ever posted on here?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO

There is evidence that such an app can be effective.

There is no evidence that it will work here, but we have to try it at least. People claiming it is a waste of time before it has started are possibly finding living through this virus a lot easier than others are.

---

I don't like the idea that the technology is shite and that it's a waste of time because of that, but I would give it a go to try and help combat the virus and allow us to return to normality quicker.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xsnaggle

With regard to the app compared to other countries I don't see the relevance. The app is for people in this country. They could simply instruct anyone arriving by sea or air to download the app before leaving the terminal.

---

Why are you commenting when you clearly don't understand the point of the discussion?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Why are you commenting when you clearly don't understand the point of the discussion?

---

Why don't you fcuk off? What gives you the right to decide who comments in any discussion? you have no real interest in any subject, only in showing your self perceived superior knowledge to everyone else. Some people don't have time to surfvthe net to find any thing that will support what they want to say.

There is no reason for it to need to be compatible to other countries, it is irreleavant if no one is going abroad any time soon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by delmbox

Yes Delbox made an error, which The One Gunman has kindly clarified for the group

---

Sorry Delmboy, I'll be more careful with my typing next time.

:hehe::thumbup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Why don't you fcuk off? What gives you the right to decide who comments in any discussion? you have no real interest in any subject, only in showing your self perceived superior knowledge to everyone else. Some people don't have time to surfvthe net to find any thing that will support what they want to say.

There is no reason for it to need to be compatible to other countries, it is irreleavant if no one is going abroad any time soon.

---

So you don't think it is worthwhile for other countries to have easy access to easily transferable information from others that could aid an organised collective response to the virus? Surely, this is one instance where the nationalist, go it alone, approach should be shelved for something more coordinated?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

So you don't think it is worthwhile for other countries to have easy access to easily transferable information from others that could aid an organised collective response to the virus? Surely, this is one instance where the nationalist, go it alone, approach should be shelved for something more coordinated?

---

No I don't think that. But if someone is intending to travel abroad then we should be able to assume that they haven't got notification that they have already been in contact with a sufferer in this country. When they go to a different country they can download the app they are using. It takes seconds. It is really no different to obtaining a visa to go to another country. In any case, it is a very poor excuse, if someone were to make it, for not downloading the app and helping to trace the spread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xsnaggle

No I don't think that. But if someone is intending to travel abroad then we should be able to assume that they haven't got notification that they have already been in contact with a sufferer in this country. When they go to a different country they can download the app they are using. It takes seconds. It is really no different to obtaining a visa to go to another country. In any case, it is a very poor excuse, if someone were to make it, for not downloading the app and helping to trace the spread.

---

**** sake :hehe:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xsnaggle

No I don't think that. But if someone is intending to travel abroad then we should be able to assume that they haven't got notification that they have already been in contact with a sufferer in this country. When they go to a different country they can download the app they are using. It takes seconds. It is really no different to obtaining a visa to go to another country. In any case, it is a very poor excuse, if someone were to make it, for not downloading the app and helping to trace the spread.

---

So let's say that I pick up the virus in the UK, go to France and become ill on the day I arrive (people don't show symptoms straight away). My UK app says I'm clean, my France app says I'm ill. But there's no one for me to be traced with in France, I've picked it up in the UK. And the UK won't be alerted because the apps don't speak to each other.

This is the whole point of contact tracing. To trace who you've been in contact with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lardy

So let's say that I pick up the virus in the UK, go to France and become ill on the day I arrive (people don't show symptoms straight away). My UK app says I'm clean, my France app says I'm ill. But there's no one for me to be traced with in France, I've picked it up in the UK. And the UK won't be alerted because the apps don't speak to each other.

This is the whole point of contact tracing. To trace who you've been in contact with.

---

Close the boarders, thats how we got in this mess!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lardy

So let's say that I pick up the virus in the UK, go to France and become ill on the day I arrive (people don't show symptoms straight away). My UK app says I'm clean, my France app says I'm ill. But there's no one for me to be traced with in France, I've picked it up in the UK. And the UK won't be alerted because the apps don't speak to each other.

This is the whole point of contact tracing. To trace who you've been in contact with.

---

But your france app will not say you are ill. The way it works is that if someone who has the app goes and gets a test which is positive, his prior movements are traced by the app and the people he has come into contact with are alerted.
It isn't to tell you you have the sickness it is to tell other people after you have physically gone for a test and proved positive.
How do you think this magic france app will tell you you are sick?

your UK app will still be on and you can alert the centre you have tested positive so they can inform others with the app. that's the idea

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bluebina

Close the boarders, thats how we got in this mess!

---

Close all the borders until there is a virus?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xsnaggle

But your france app will not say you are ill. The way it works is that if someone who has the app goes and gets a test which is positive, his prior movements are traced by the app and the people he has come into contact with are alerted.
It isn't to tell you you have the sickness it is to tell other people after you have physically gone for a test and proved positive.
How do you think this magic france app will tell you you are sick?

your UK app will still be on and you can alert the centre you have tested positive so they can inform others with the app. that's the idea

---

No it isn't :hehe:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

No it isn't :hehe:

---

Yes it is

The app is to trace the areas where the biggest outbreaks have occurred.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

The app is to trace the areas where the biggest outbreaks have occurred.

---

The biggest outbreaks of hypochondria unless they are going to require a verified test every time the app does its magic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

The app is to trace the areas where the biggest outbreaks have occurred.

---

The app is toinform individuals if they have been in close contact with someone who has tested positive. It is passive. when you test positive (if you have the app ) you inform the system and it then checks who you have been close to and warns then to self isolate and/or get tested.
Test - track - trace.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xsnaggle

The app is toinform individuals if they have been in close contact with someone who has tested positive. It is passive. when you test positive (if you have the app ) you inform the system and it then checks who you have been close to and warns then to self isolate and/or get tested.
Test - track - trace.

---

So how does that work if someone from France has been near you?

It's not to inform individuals based on individual infections, it's to track where there have been outbreaks so people in that area can be informed if they've been at risk.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xsnaggle

But your france app will not say you are ill. The way it works is that if someone who has the app goes and gets a test which is positive, his prior movements are traced by the app and the people he has come into contact with are alerted.
It isn't to tell you you have the sickness it is to tell other people after you have physically gone for a test and proved positive.
How do you think this magic france app will tell you you are sick?

your UK app will still be on and you can alert the centre you have tested positive so they can inform others with the app. that's the idea

---

Yes obviously you need to report your illness! I took that as a given, apologies.

"You can alert the centre" Well yes you can, you can do your French app and then do the British one ; or maybe you'll forget do everything you need to because you've quickly deteriorated and have been rushed to hospital. The point of it being automatic is that we are human. What if we don't know the small print and just assume we only need to do it once?

Working with other countries is so obviously sensible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lardy

Yes obviously you need to report your illness! I took that as a given, apologies.

"You can alert the centre" Well yes you can, you can do your French app and then do the British one ; or maybe you'll forget do everything you need to because you've quickly deteriorated and have been rushed to hospital. The point of it being automatic is that we are human. What if we don't know the small print and just assume we only need to do it once?

Working with other countries is so obviously sensible.

---

I'm not sure what you mean by "the point of it being automic" Which part of it do you assume is automatic for the person who tests positive? I understand it is automatic for the people it informs, but it still needs the manual input from the person tested or the testing station doesn't it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

The app is to trace the areas where the biggest outbreaks have occurred.

---

It's also going to alert people who have been in contact with someone who is reporting symptoms. I have no idea what xsnaggle is on about with France apps and UK apps. He is one of two people on ignore, both intent on making any disagreements personal.

However, he is right, to an extent, in that if one app user reports they have symptoms and/or have tested positive, people who have had contact with the infected person will be alerted and advised on the next steps (I think this may depend on the amount of contact). What a quandary for him - if he disagrees with me, as per his default position, he will end up disagreeing with himself.

You are also right in that the app will track hotspots, I suspect the intention is that future lockdowns will be regionalised rather than national. The app has more than one objective.

If his point is about using different apps in different countries, then it becomes messy quickly. What happens when you return home from France, and then get sick? And what happens to the Spanish girl you were chatting up in Monaco, does her Spanish app alert her?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xsnaggle

I'm not sure what you mean by "the point of it being automic" Which part of it do you assume is automatic for the person who tests positive? I understand it is automatic for the people it informs, but it still needs the manual input from the person tested or the testing station doesn't it?

---

By automatic, I mean that you limit how much the user has to do because people make mistakes, misunderstand and so on.

Yes it needs input, so in this hypothetical scenario it makes more sense for the user to input once and have it shared than have to input more than once.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO

You are also right in that the app will track hotspots, I suspect the intention is that future lockdowns will be regionalised rather than national. The app has more than one objective.

---

Wouldn't you be better off mapping confirmed cases rather than those 'reporting symptoms' for any regionalised lockdown? If so then we already have that facility via testing.

I am struggling to see why the app needs location data.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lardy

By automatic, I mean that you limit how much the user has to do because people make mistakes, misunderstand and so on.

Yes it needs input, so in this hypothetical scenario it makes more sense for the user to input once and have it shared than have to input more than once.

---

But when he goes to a different country the user will have to change his location info anyway. Its no good showing a UK postcode if you've been is spain for 10 days is it?
There is no great difficulty in this, we feed out info into things all the time. I sounds like some are trying to find reasosn to say the system won't work. Can't we see how it works first?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

Wouldn't you be better off mapping confirmed cases rather than those 'reporting symptoms' for any regionalised lockdown? If so then we already have that facility via testing.

I am struggling to see why the app needs location data.

---

Yes, which requires an increase in testing - most likely at home. Possibly, in the near future, test results will be fairly quick (i.e. they won't need to be sent off). Thereby, reporting positive test results becomes the task of the infected person rather than the test centre.

Out of interest, would you be opposed to sharing the first 3/4 characters of your postcode - which is, I believe, the only location data being requested. The rest is done via bluetooth and could work with location gathering turned off (again, from my understanding of the app).

I've just got my first ever smart phone, although i do the same things on it as i did with my little brick. I don't think that i'll be bothering with this App, simply because i don't want to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO

Yes, which requires an increase in testing - most likely at home. Possibly, in the near future, test results will be fairly quick (i.e. they won't need to be sent off). Thereby, reporting positive test results becomes the task of the infected person rather than the test centre.

Out of interest, would you be opposed to sharing the first 3/4 characters of your postcode - which is, I believe, the only location data being requested. The rest is done via bluetooth and could work with location gathering turned off (again, from my understanding of the app).

---

They are already admitting that future versions will likely include GPS for more precise location information. Of course right now their position is that they will fully inform users if updates include changes that are this important but the simple way to avoid having to find out is not download it in the first place.

Also loads of high level boffin shite that I am struggling to understand written from respected people in the field (ie not me and you) seems to suggest the whole thing is a really bad idea. This has put me right off.

Ultimately I dont think the app will work without verifying the information that users enter into it. There are enough nutcases ready and willing to enter bogus information and we will be wasting tests on people they wandered past. It sounds like it doesn't work in the background on iPhones anyway so it's dead in the water.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

They are already admitting that future versions will likely include GPS for more precise location information. Of course right now their position is that they will fully inform users if updates include changes that are this important but the simple way to avoid having to find out is not download it in the first place.

Also loads of high level boffin shite that I am struggling to understand written from respected people in the field (ie not me and you) seems to suggest the whole thing is a really bad idea. This has put me right off.

Ultimately I dont think the app will work without verifying the information that users enter into it. There are enough nutcases ready and willing to enter bogus information and we will be wasting tests on people they wandered past. It sounds like it doesn't work in the background on iPhones anyway so it's dead in the water.

---

You have valid points, but my understanding is that you can't simply sign up with a bogus account. You have to enter the details of your doctor for one thing.

I am aware that some people are suggesting it is a bad idea - I suspect if you look solely for that your fears on the app will be confirmed. Similar fears are raised about things like Facebook, Twitter, e-mail, smart phones, and even traffic apps like Waze. I reckon many of the people calling this out as a bad idea are already anti-Government, and I reckon a high percentage of them use some of the other apps that have been proven to collect data (i.e. Facebook).

Do you have a link to the story about the app using GPS data in the future?

Phones and laptops already spy on you. The other day I was on my laptop loking at cats homes and for the last 3 days on my phone I have been getting adverts for cats cat charities and all the sundry things that go with them. It has been happeneing for ages. When I was working in Swansea I started getting local Swansea adverts and news.

They know where you are and what you do anyway. The app won't be any worse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Phones and laptops already spy on you. The other day I was on my laptop loking at cats homes and for the last 3 days on my phone I have been getting adverts for cats cat charities and all the sundry things that go with them. It has been happeneing for ages. When I was working in Swansea I started getting local Swansea adverts and news.

They know where you are and what you do anyway. The app won't be any worse.

---

Are you signed up to Google? If so, your search history will go across any device that is signed into the same google account. I know this because a previous partner of mine was checking my Social Media account on my laptop whilst I was at work. I knew it because it was appearing in my Google internet history. Ex-partner admitted that they were looking into my social media accounts, and was promptly kicked out.

The idea of the app serving British people, sitting on a British server, owned by the NHS , with British security back up from GCHQ , should be good enough for most folk to realise its intention is too try and get our country back to work , the economy going ,confidence to move around , whilst trying to mitigate future spread of the virus witin British lives is surely the key here.

If we don't try something were doomed, as the financial crash will take more lives than this virus.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO

You have valid points, but my understanding is that you can't simply sign up with a bogus account. You have to enter the details of your doctor for one thing.

I am aware that some people are suggesting it is a bad idea - I suspect if you look solely for that your fears on the app will be confirmed. Similar fears are raised about things like Facebook, Twitter, e-mail, smart phones, and even traffic apps like Waze. I reckon many of the people calling this out as a bad idea are already anti-Government, and I reckon a high percentage of them use some of the other apps that have been proven to collect data (i.e. Facebook).

Do you have a link to the story about the app using GPS data in the future?

---

It was a statement attributed to the ceo of nhsx Matthew Gould, I don't have it to hand. Might have been on wired.co.uk.

I am not saying people will sign up with fake details, I am saying the app relies on a user initially accurately self-diagnosing. I used to work with someone who thought they had a brain tumor every time they got a headache. What will they do if they feel a bit hot, or wake up coughing in the morning, my guess is straight on the app to say they have symptoms and if you have been near them recently for any length of time you are getting an alert saying that you may have been exposed and so on and so on... Tracing should be done after diagnosis, the effort should be placed on speeding up testing so that this can take place quickly and effectively.

Three separate issues for me I suppose.

1) I don't think the app will achieve what they hope it will, even if enough people decide to use it. The iPhone issues are not a good start.

2) Very real issues around privacy highlighted by legal and tech experts.

3) mixed messages around whether the data gets deleted once it is over, no plans to publish the code for expert scrutiny and scope creep - already we are hearing that the app might become more than just a contact tracer straight from the horses mouth.

And you are right, none of us are pure in terms of the data we have often unwittingly given away however you are wrong to highlight this in any way hypocritical because this isn't a discussion about whether or not you agree with the government or an organisation knowing things about us, this is a discussion about where you draw the line. If they said we can save you from heart attacks, you just need to put CCTV in your shower and let us watch, presumably you wouldn't think that was a measured and appropriate response to the risk of dropping dead from a heart attack.

We simply draw the line at different points.

Also I don't think it is valid for people to be continually reaching for the tired old 'if X were the government you would agree with it' because there is strong evidence to the contrary. When people strongly disagree with something they often do so regardless of political allegiance (the Iraq war being a pretty significant example that springs to mind). This government exists under a particularly dark cloud of skepticism in my mind simply because they find dishonesty so easy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by life on mars

The idea of the app serving British people, sitting on a British server, owned by the NHS , with British security back up from GCHQ , should be good enough for most folk to realise its intention is too try and get our country back to work , the economy going ,confidence to move around , whilst trying to mitigate future spread of the virus witin British lives is surely the key here.

If we don't try something were doomed, as the financial crash will take more lives than this virus.

---

I'm willing to ignore all the issues highlighted as long as there is a picture of the queen drinking tea with the British flag wrapped around her on the home screen on the app. That will prove everything is okay.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by life on mars

The idea of the app serving British people, sitting on a British server, owned by the NHS , with British security back up from GCHQ , should be good enough for most folk to realise its intention is too try and get our country back to work , the economy going ,confidence to move around , whilst trying to mitigate future spread of the virus witin British lives is surely the key here.

If we don't try something were doomed, as the financial crash will take more lives than this virus.

---

I will reluctantly download the app. There are a number of people on here, several of whom you seem to venerate, who are really sceptical that giving the state any kind of personal information attacks their liberties and will be used to track down those spirited free thinkers.

There are also loads of people who are distrustful of this government's relationship with the management and manipulation of people's personal information and how that is stored and used. The Brexit campaign mastered this using organisations like Cambridge Analytica with a key architect being Dominic Cummings. He is now at the core of government, and regardless of the facts about the app, people don't trust it when he and his ilk is sniffing around it.

To succeed the app needs trust. It's sad that at a time of national crisis that trust is unlikely to be there either because people are so alienated from the state that they buy into conspiracy theories by the dozen or the people in government have lost the trust of moderate people because of previous perceived sins.

Also in this article you do wonder whether the UK going its own way is a political choice where the common apple/google systems that best trace across borders are discounted because they don't fit with an independent Britain. Back to feet and inches and away from metres!

https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/05/nh...app-explained/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

It was a statement attributed to the ceo of nhsx Matthew Gould, I don't have it to hand. Might have been on wired.co.uk.

I am not saying people will sign up with fake details, I am saying the app relies on a user initially accurately self-diagnosing. I used to work with someone who thought they had a brain tumor every time they got a headache. What will they do if they feel a bit hot, or wake up coughing in the morning, my guess is straight on the app to say they have symptoms and if you have been near them recently for any length of time you are getting an alert saying that you may have been exposed and so on and so on... Tracing should be done after diagnosis, the effort should be placed on speeding up testing so that this can take place quickly and effectively.

Three separate issues for me I suppose.

1) I don't think the app will achieve what they hope it will, even if enough people decide to use it. The iPhone issues are not a good start.

2) Very real issues around privacy highlighted by legal and tech experts.

3) mixed messages around whether the data gets deleted once it is over, no plans to publish the code for expert scrutiny and scope creep - already we are hearing that the app might become more than just a contact tracer straight from the horses mouth.

And you are right, none of us are pure in terms of the data we have often unwittingly given away however you are wrong to highlight this in any way hypocritical because this isn't a discussion about whether or not you agree with the government or an organisation knowing things about us, this is a discussion about where you draw the line. If they said we can save you from heart attacks, you just need to put CCTV in your shower and let us watch, presumably you wouldn't think that was a measured and appropriate response to the risk of dropping dead from a heart attack.

We simply draw the line at different points.

Also I don't think it is valid for people to be continually reaching for the tired old 'if X were the government you would agree with it' because there is strong evidence to the contrary. When people strongly disagree with something they often do so regardless of political allegiance (the Iraq war being a pretty significant example that springs to mind). This government exists under a particularly dark cloud of skepticism in my mind simply because they find dishonesty so easy.

---

On point 1, you may be correct. I'm willing to contribute, though, in the hope that the data I provide can help avoid a second wave or further periods of lock down (I suspect a second period of lockdown before Christmas will see me unemployed, but I am not using that as a reason for contributing)

On Point 2, there are issues about privacy on many apps. However, the GDPR rules have made a significant change in the app landscape and protecting personal data (shame this forum doesn't follow the rules though).

On Point 3, I would like to see links to that claim.

With regards to putting a camera in the shower to stop me having a heart-attack. That is not a great analogy, to be fair. This app is designed to stop the spread of a contagious viral infection. So, the data gathering is, I think, commensurate to the task in hand. If the app wanted a photo of my willy, or wanted to know what newspapers I read, or what political party I voted for in the last election - then I would either provide false data, or no data at all.

I appreciate that people draw the line at different points, but I wonder how many people who are crying "privacy is important" are sharing lots of data with faceless organisations that result in targeted political messages being sent their way, and changing the course of democracy as we know it? I am not saying it is hypocritical to share data with one organisation, and to refuse to share data with this app - what I am saying is that refusal has to be based on more than "it's big brother innit" type reactions.

The app doesn't collect any personal or identifying data.
Each person is assigned a random and unique number.
If you have come into contact with a fellow app user, and that contact exceeds 15 minutes, and the contact is 2m or less, that is recorded on each app user's device
If one of the people becomes ill, (initially self diagnosed, eventually via a test) then each app user that the sick person has encountered will be contacted to inform them of the situation, and advising them to self-isolate for 2 days.
The sick person is then offered a test. If they test positive, then each of the contacts are told to self isolate for 14 days. If negative, the contacts are told that the notification was false.
If the sick person refuses the test, then the next stage is that if a sufficient number of the people who encountered the sick person develop symptoms then all contacts are advised to self isolate.

Encounters are removed after 28 days unless a person becomes sick.

Which part of that is causing concern?