It's not just about that at all.....Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
I give up.
Have a good trip.
:thumbup:
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It's not just about that at all.....Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
I give up.
Have a good trip.
:thumbup:
We also know that you shouldn't be using public transport at all unless your journey is essential, but that seems to have escaped you.Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
So what is it about if not halting the spread of a virus to which we have no natural immunity?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
Quite right. So why, now that London is starting to get up and running again do they re-introduce the London congestion charge?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
Well the increase is part of a fund for the bailout of tfl.Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
Not everyone will agree but I think for London the congestion charge is a good thing and with traffic increasing again see no reason for it not to be re-introduced.
You genuinely have to ask me this? Have you been on a different planet for the last nine weeks?!?Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
Non-essential travel has been outlawed not only to stop the spread of the virus, but also to limit the potential strain on the emergency services. Obviously.
This is an astonishing thread. I thought you were an intelligent man, but it seems you need to have some of the very basics of the theory behind the lockdown explained to you. It's staggering.
No idea. I haven't been paying attention to what's going on in London. I'm not planning to go there any time soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
Because London is"starting to get up and running again"
Im not disagreeing with you about lack of non essential travel or anything else that helps stop the spread of the virus.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
The whole point of all the lockdown restrictions and the add on huge cost to the economy was to stop or at very least slow down the spread. So instead of the NHS looking after us, we were told to look after the NHS. Fine, and we have succeeded to some degree but at a huge cost to life.
Point is, I and you have been following the line as have most people...and Im not off to Brecon tomorrow, although it created some interesting debate.
Meanwhile the basics in controlling this virus and supporting the health service have been seen wanting....from lack of PPE, contact tracing, discharging people to nursing homes, lack of CPAP and ventilators, Regional Health authorities fiddling around with their own reporting g systems that didn't tie in with the Welsh system, Lack of testing facilities...and I could go on.
You are worried about a potential trip to Brecon when we are being let down big style by our lords and masters, but you don't seem to see the bigger picture.
Don't talk to me about lack of intelligence
I also think that, whichever government announced the least stringent rules would be the one that most followed. If the Welsh Government said that we could all go to the beach, go to the mountains, do what we want whenever we want as long as there's some element of social distancing, while Westminster said there'll be a total lockdown, people in Wales would follow the Welsh Government advice.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
As I mentioned earlier the various governments have hoodwinked us into getting excited when a group are turned back from Pen-Y-Fan, or similar actions that are not in line with the lockdown.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
At the same time people were dying for the need of a ventilator, doctors dying through lack of PPE. The big damage has been done, not by the public not obeying the rules, but by Governments failing to do their jobs
[QUOTE=The Lone Gunman).
. I reckon the chances of you being pulled over by the authorities during a day trip to Brecon are slim to none. If you feel comfortable with the idea, then just go for it. .[/QUOTE]
Well youd be wrong if hed gone today.
Police are doing spot checks by Pen y Fan. Included amongst those fined people from Barry just out for a spin
Dont know if this is something they are doing each day.
You still don't get it, do you?Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
The rules regarding non-essential travel were not implemented solely to stop the transmission of the virus from one place to another. They were also designed to stop people like you potentially placing an unnecessary burden on the health professionals and the emergency services as a result of traffic accidents and breakdowns. I'm absolutely amazed that you've needed that to be spelled out to you.
For the record, and as I've previously stated, I'm not in the least bit worried about your potential trip to Brecon. You can travel to Brecon, Bristol, Bromsgrove, Bradford or Broxburn as far as I'm concerned. I couldn't care less. I'm merely point out how mind-numbingly stupid your question is.
I know we've been let down big time by our lords and masters! The way in which Boris and his minions have handled this crisis has been a national disgrace. I'm fully aware of the bigger picture, but you didn't ask anybody for their opinions regarding the bigger picture. You asked our opinions on whether or not a jolly to Brecon to buy some meat would be permitted by the Welsh authorities. The blatantly obvious answer is no, it wouldn't.
You're probably right, but I'm certain that a significant percentage of the population either won't have paid any attention to Drakeford's addresses or even be fully aware of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
Ah, but was anybody going to visit a butcher? That's essential, allegedly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
:biggrin:
According to the Welsh Government food shopping is essentialQuote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
That's Labour for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
What Ive been trying to say is that lots of people including you seem to get their knickers in a twist about the nitty gritty of what we have been asked to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
Yes, I too try to stay at home and I posted to suggest that on a risk assessment basis I would be better off with one visit to get 3 months supply of essential foods than frequent visits to a supermarket, where I would only purchase day to day because their offerings were not really what I wanted.
I understand now that you are aware of the bigger picture, therefore even more puzzled that you took such a myopic view of my post
The Stay Home message from the Welsh Government is a nonsense as it was originally in England. The Keep Alert message in England is now far more sensible meaning in my interpretation that you can go anywhere as long as you are alert to the proximity of others. Lisvane Blue could happily go to Brecon for his meat if the English rule applied in Wales. I visited my local beach this morning and everyone kept away from each other crossing the road when another person was coming the other way. So even if the media say the "Alert" message is confusing the population seems to get it even though some journalists don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
You'd have to go to the supermarket every day because it's not what you wanted?Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
This is coming across a bit first world problems now.
Yes food shopping is essential. No, travelling 40 miles because it's nicer is not essential.
When questioned on "Stay Alert" after it was announced, Boris Johnson said that "stay home" was still a part of the message and was also on the govt. images they released at the time. How is that not confusing matters in anyone's book?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
It's not stay at home anymore it's stay alert... But please stay at home... But if you don't... Please stay alert... But please stay home.
But how do you know that everyone is safe through being "alert"? Were the millions of cases so far only for people who weren't alert enough?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
I've mainly been at home and have protected myself when out, but still somehow managed to get a runny nose and light cold a few weeks back.
You wouldn't get rid of speed limits and ask people to be alert because you can't trust them. So why would it be different for something invisible?
I'm not saying people are dumb or careless, just that we don't know how to avoid being infected accidentally. It happens to everyone regularly.
The Stay Alert thing is ludicrous. It shows how bad Johnson and his Ministers are. Stay alert drive wherever you like but stay at home as much as possible.
How can a 100 mile drive to a tourist spot and keeping social distancing and staying at home as much as possible work.?
Stay alert on a bus/train full when your told go to work..... but dont go.
Its a feckin mess.
People may be ignoring Stay at home but its quite straightforward. Boris and co say stay alert go where u want but stay at home as well.
The Stay Home message is very unclear when in the next breath you are told you can go shopping, go to work if you can't at home, go to the Doctor and take daily exercise. The Keep Alert message has it's faults, as others have recognised, but it does remind people that you must be alert to the proximity of others. I see no problem in driving somewhere as when you are in a car you are remote from others and the Keep Alert message enables that to happen. It seems to me that common sense should apply whatever the message but I know which one I prefer even if others are in disagreement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
Jesus wept, this is hard work....Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
I’m not getting my knickers in a twist about the nitty gritty of the guidelines. I couldn’t care less what you choose to do. It will have no effect on me whatsoever. I was merely giving you what is the blatantly obvious answer to what was an extremely dumb question.
If you’re not content with my answer, go ask the South Wales Police. I’m sure they’ll be happy to advise accordingly.
That would probably be true in practice, but not in principle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
The current travel guidelines for England:
Is your journey necessary?
Before you travel, consider if your journey is necessary and if you can, stay local. Try to reduce your travel. This will help keep the transport network running and allow people who need to make essential journeys to travel. You can reduce your travel by:
Working from home where possible
Shopping less frequently and shopping locally
That advice is date 12th May is on the Department of Transport pages on Gov.UK.
I should have added that if you're driving for exercise, you can go anywhere you like.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
As I've said many, many times in recent weeks, the guidelines (both original and updated) are nonsense.
Thanks. I was aware of that in broad terms but when Grant Shapps appeared at the Daily Press Conference he implied that message was intended to reduce the usage of public transport especially in London where the tubes were clearly overcrowded and made social distancing impossible. Boris, in his wisdom, indicated/implied that you could drive anywhere for exercise but the interpretation has become so loose that the population seems to have taken that to mean you can drive anywhere for any purpose such as going to the beach where an element of exercise can take place. I guess shopping involves a degree of exercise meaning that Lisvane Blue could happily drive to Brecon for his meat if the English rule applied in Wales. It's all rather nonsensical but we are where we are.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
However, in Wales it clearly is not intended that people can drive long distances for buying food when there are plenty of places nearer home that can serve that purpose so to that extent I agree with everything you have said.
This is the thing - the guidelines and the messages regarding them were largely nonsensical to start with, but they've become more and more blurred as time has progressed. The (UK) government's advice on its own website states: "It is still very important that people stay home unless necessary to go out for specific reasons set out in law."Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
It then goes on to say you can go out for pretty much anything, including my favourite, which is: "going to shops that are permitted to be open." Comedy gold!
So the message is clear:
Stay home. Unless you want to go out. In which case, go out, but stay alert.
I think that just about covers it.
The government's advice in England is not to Stay Home. This from the BBC seems to spell out the new position.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-52530518
In relation to the case in point the advice states:
"Households can also drive any distance in England to destinations such as parks and beaches. But they should not travel to Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland, where people are still being told to avoid any non-essential travel".
The reference to travelling to parks and beaches are merely examples and doesn't preclude shopping thus reinforcing the points made previously.
The guidance you've quoted relates to exercise and 'outdoor activity' only, not shopping. Ridiculous, but that's the way it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
You've said the government's advice in England is not to stay at home and you're right to a degree. However, all of the official guidance on the government's own website underlines that people should stay at home "as much as possible", which is allegedly "very important". They should also consider if journeys are necessary and try to stay local, work from home where possible, shop less frequently and shop locally, etc.
I'm not making this stuff up. You can read it all for yourself if you'd care to (and you don't have to rely on the BBC). These are the UK government's own guidelines:
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ial-distancing
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...eave-the-house
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavi...for-passengers
Basically, it's a load of bollocks. Contradictory, deliberately vague, open to all sorts of interpretations, unenforceable, largely pointless. As I've said before, the guidance in England is now effectively stay at home unless you want to go out.
I'm just going to do what the f uck i like from now on.
I'm going to cycle to Brecon for a game of golf and buy some burgers while I'm there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
:thumbup:
I've read the links to which you refer. One of your links states:Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
The reasons you may leave home include:
.................................................. ....."going to shops that are permitted to be open - to get things like food and medicine".
The advice goes beyond exercise but does rely on a degree of common sense.
The BBC link I provided quoted specifically from the government's advice on Staying Alert. I wouldn't be surprised if the Welsh Government eventually follows the Stay Alert message as they rely heavily on Public Health England to determine their policies reinforcing an illusion of independence.
Thus I repeat there appears to be no limit on distance travelled for either exercise or shopping enabling Lisvane Blue to do his shopping if he lived and shopped in England.
I don't think either of us can take this much further as I agree with your view that in Wales Lisvane Blue is theoretically unable to travel to Brecon to buy meat when plenty of more local shops sell a similar product even though it might not be up to the high standard he requires.
Im coming.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
I’ll give you a croggy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
I had to look 'Croggy' up-Must be a Rhiwbina thing as i've never heard it before, although i've done it plenty of times. The opposite is a'backie'Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
I also think that, where possible, shopping trips should only be done by one person from the household, so however local your meat supplier is, going there as a couple is against the regulations.
I know a few who took off that way yesterday for just a bit of that and camping. Funny how pedantic so many have become of late, no one used to give a monkeys what the government would say about rules and regs did they. Something must have happened heyQuote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
Weird isn’t it? It’s almost like there’s a global pandemic underway involving a highly contagious virus.Quote:
Originally Posted by goats