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Crumbs off the table, hordes of old English immigrants have flooded the Welsh NHS and this is not really financially accounted for by the UK Government, we should have more money from the UK Government to deal with the white flight immigration crisis that causes a huge strain on our services.Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
Wales decided to go along with a uniform UK approach that started as one of herd immunity. It could have done things differently re the 1984 act, but choose to stay with a UK approach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
But it couldn't lock down until the UK did right?Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
Off the top of my head..it could have starting testing earlier, ( WHO was shouting test, test, test), It have quarantined all Wales residents whop arrived at UK airports, It could have isolated Care Homes, It could have been first in the queue for PPE.... Point is we decided to go along with a UK approach. Our decision, our responsibilityQuote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
So the Welsh Government have done worse than the U.K. government then?Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
Hindsight and all that. No one seemed to care so much mid March, it just got very serious all of a sudden. Rugby and our match with Leeds was on until the last minute almost, some 45000 people left the uk to go ski ing in the alps mid March, all of which were pointless as all the slopes closed as they arrived....if the public were so adamant for a quicker lockdown we could have shouted about it then, but we didn’t at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
Welsh rugby stopped the Wales v Scotland match the English led UK authorities wanted it played.Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
The English in the name of the UK stole our testing kits and PPE.Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
We didn’t care much but we aren’t elected into highest office to make these decisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by goats
The Tory party were told to close pubs, restaurants and schools at the start of February.
The start of lockdown was as half arsed as can be even at the start. People were told to maybe stay home but pubs, gyms and restaurants stayed open for another 2 weeks.
The English led Westminster Government pushed for herd immunity that seemed like something that could have come straight out of the Nazi playbook to me.
That was a myth which at the time was designed to sidetrack the Welsh and Scottish Governments from criticism. There was nothing preventing other nations' governments from obtaining their own PPE but at the time the international market was such that demand far exceeded supply so Wales and Scotland were happy to leave it to the UK government to purchase and organise the distribution and to take the flak.Quote:
Originally Posted by trampie09
As for testing, the Welsh Government simply abandoned the testing target of 9000 as it had failed to provide the infrastructure to deal with anything like that number; it had nothing to do with stealing tests. Later the Chief Executive of Public Health Wales claimed not to have been advised by the Welsh Government of that target despite the fact it had been widely reported in the media. A shambles if ever there was one.
On PPE, Mark Drakeford, revealed that his administration's pandemic stockpile had from 2016 onwards failed to contain a single protective gown but that was contradictory to a statement to the Senedd by Vaughan Gething, who was asked whether the stockpile contained gowns, visors, swabs and body bags. He stated: 'All of those items were available in our pandemic stock.'
In fairness to both the English and Welsh governments PPE has a shelf life of only between 3-6 months and stockpiling, the warehousing needed and the frequent replacement requirements was not financially viable given the rarity of pandemics. (Apparently a 3 month supply of PPE for the UK would require 5 acres of warehousing.) But, in answer to the above statement, there was no Welsh PPE for the English to steal and the abysmal record of the Welsh Government on testing had absolutely nothing to do with testing kits being stolen.
In the interest of balance, if Welsh PPE and testing kits were being stolen, please comment further. I would be fascinated to read that.
Let's face it all governments have questions to answer when this pandemic is over but I doubt whether the stealing of PPE and other equipment by the English will be one of them.
Certain things are devolved. Two key ones are healthcare and education.We have full autonomy and responsibility for theseQuote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Of course they share responsibility for this mess. If you genuinely believe otherwise, you're an idiot. It's no more complicated than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
Agreed how can anyone say the U.K. government share the blame?!Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
Attachment 3869Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
We got in, they didn't, they pulled rank when they realised they had made a huge massive mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
They were all for that Nazi type policy known as herd immunity and were of that mind set, they realise they were out of step with the sentiment of their Celtic neighbours and most of the World and pinched our stuff in the name of the UK, when Englands population makes up nearly all of the UK.
Crumbs off the table.Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
The 1984 Act includes provision to stop sports events. So the Senedd could have stopped it but didn't. Glad to see the WRU didQuote:
Originally Posted by trampie09
Your OP was about UK deaths, so the UK Gov must share responsibility for that. My comments related to Wales and the responsibility for healthcare rests solely with the Senedd. Its pretty straightforward, but you just don't seem to get itQuote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
So all the deaths in wales are due to the senedd and you place zero blame on the U.K. government?Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
Quick question... Currently, how big is the hole that you've been digging?Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
Sorry to have confused you with some facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by trampie09
I think everyone gets it.Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
They also get that any effective lockdown that the WAG might theoretically have put forward at an earlier stage couldn't have worked without an economic package alongside - and that means the UK government. They also get that the main public health messages received by the Welsh public have come from the UK government. I think that is also the case in Scotland where Nicola Sturgeon has been effective with a Scottish information campaign, but one that inevitably follows London.
You even suggested a few posts back that the WAG could have introduced quarantine for Welsh people flying into UK airports. How could that possibly work - without the full co-operation of other UK authorities. It is a very useful demonstration of how many holes there are in your assertion that 'responsibility for healthcare rests solely with the Senedd'. In practice there are major limits on how that devolved responsibility can be exercised.
Thanks for the balanced response. Under the Public Health act 1984 ( England and Wales)which is specifically about control of infectious diseases WAG could have instructed residents in Wales returning to a UK airport or a Welsh seaport like Pembroke, to quarantine/ self isolate for a period of time once back in their main residence. The same act allows us to stop sporting events, close schools, in fact much of what we term as lockdown. But rightly or not we initially went with a unified approach with the other home nations, and when it didn't work as well as expected in Wales, people like many who have made comments on this board, blamed Westminster, even when Westminster has no authority over healthcare in Wales.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
And yes, co-operation is needed with other UK authorities, but the decisions made for Wales are made by the Senedd and they are totally responsible because healthcare is devolved.
We have not led on anything in Wales except maybe being very cautious. We could have because we have the authority to, but sadly we didn't.
Not quite as big as your mouthQuote:
Originally Posted by Heisenberg
let me turn it around. Are the Senedd responsible for any Covid deaths in England, Scotland or N Ireland?Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
No but the U.K. government is, the majority of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
How can you think that’s a good come back you ****ing berk :hehe:
Surely you understand that when it comes to healthcare the UK Gov ie Westminster can only speak for England, as they are only responsible for healthcare in England. The other home nations have taken on the responsibility in their own countriesQuote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
Or maybe you don't get it
I do get it and I also get that the reason we had such a high level of deaths has been because the lock down was brought in late and was poorly managed.Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
The Senedd have been shite. But I don't see how you can absolve the UK Government of any blame at all. It's making you look like a lunatic.
Countries that locked down early had the fewest deaths:
https://www.euronews.com/2020/05/06/...r-eu-countries
https://www.theguardian.com/business...9-league-table
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...-toll-21992434
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/113948...mpared-europe/
https://www.ft.com/content/40fc8904-...c-ea3e48bbc034
Still pretty f**king big then?Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
Ive had a look at the newspaper references:Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
The Guardian got it right talking about England not the UK
Overall the papers said:
Not enough preparation...In Wales thats down to the Senedd, yep PPE etc
Slow on testing...............In Wales that's down to the Senedd, and we were worse in UK in getting our act together
Large sporting events taking place.....Only one in Wales which the Senedd could have stopped but didn't. The WRU did though
Schools remain open......In Wales that's down to the Senedd, they had the authority to shut them anytime
Airports Open .......As above, the Senedd could have shut the few that we have, but didn't
So the papers in their general way looked at the UK and UK Gov as if it is in charge of UK healthcare.
But all the things listed above when it comes to Wales healthcare are the responsibility of the Senedd, and they were found wanting.
So please stop giving me all this crap about blaming someone else. You'll be saying next that our schools are due to one this month because the UK gov said so. But no doubt you know that Education too has been devolved and is the responsibility of the Senedd
So you don't blame the uk government for the number of deaths in wales at all then?
Only as much as you'd blame the Senedd for deaths in EnglandQuote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
IdiotQuote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
England has typically followed the Celtic countries as regards Covid, I remember putting up a list of actions and dates by the Celts and then the dates that Bojo and the English followed suit.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
That may be because it is agreed in meetings and then the first ministers rush to be the first to announce it, as Ms Sturgeon was accused of ding some time ago. "Looked at me, I'm a lEaDer/Quote:
Originally Posted by trampie09
It’s obvious that the ‘blue’ in Lisvaneblue’s user name is more to do with the colour of his political rosette than his football one. Must be eating at him the Tory shambles that’s enfolding day by day.
[QUOTE=splott parker;5083242]It’s obvious that the ‘blue’ in Lisvaneblue’s user name is more to do with the colour of his political rosette than his football one. Must be eating at him the Tory shambles that’s enfolding day by day.[/QUOTE
My comments have been to do with healthcare in Wales during the pandemic. It’s been a shambles but the colour to blame is red.
Time and time again posters on this board have had a go about Westminster making a mess of Covid in Wales. Time and time again I point out that healthcare in Wales is run by the Senedd, and Uk Gov runs same in England
My voting colours vary, my football colours have been blue since first game at Ninian in 1952
Yep, I’ve heard there is plenty of space in your head for the mouth to take up most of itQuote:
Originally Posted by Heisenberg