No confidence vote, against DRAKEFORD, from Welsh Tourist Body !!

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

Let me spell it out. The rules are that if you live within 5 miles of our 160 mile border with England, local travel could include a trip into England. Once there our Welsh rules no longer apply but the English rules do , and they allow people to travel anywhere in that country.

When English people visit Wales, our rules apply as soon as they enter our country

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As I said I give up.

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

Well if they live in Wrexham he effectively could be because its residents are within 5 miles of England. He needs to get up off his arse and lockdown the hotspots in North Wales

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But, you have already said you don't want him to herd people into hotspots by imposing a 5 mile rule.

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Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO

Yes. So how is that Drakeford's fault?

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He's seeing a severe escalation of the disease in Wrexham and he's not doing anything active about it. He treating it as if its not happening. Wrexham residents can go about their business as if they lived in Ceredigion where there are b.... all cases. If they want they can drive to England and spread it around there. In an earlier post I mentioned that Wales has this month got the highest number of cumulative cases in UK Also the slowest rate of decline in UK, some dangerous hot spots and you seem to think that Drakeford doing nothing about it is to be applauded

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Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO

But, you have already said you don't want him to herd people into hotspots by imposing a 5 mile rule.

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He needs to impose a lockdown in the area just like we did for the whole of Wales in March. the 5 mile rule was part of him easing the lockdown. In Wrexham and other parts of North Wales the lockdown needs to be re-imposed. ie Stay at home then you can't spread it

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

He's seeing a severe escalation of the disease in Wrexham and he's not doing anything active about it. He treating it as if its not happening. Wrexham residents can go about their business as if they lived in Ceredigion where there are b.... all cases. If they want they can drive to England and spread it around there. In an earlier post I mentioned that Wales has this month got the highest number of cumulative cases in UK Also the slowest rate of decline in UK, some dangerous hot spots and you seem to think that Drakeford doing nothing about it is to be applauded

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Yes, you mentioned it but haven't sourced it.

I'm starting work now, hopefully you will make your mind up on which of the two contradictory arguments you are going to stick with.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

As I said I give up.

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Im not sure if you think Im wrong or not, but those are the rules

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

He needs to impose a lockdown in the area just like we did for the whole of Wales in March. the 5 mile rule was part of him easing the lockdown. In Wrexham and other parts of North Wales the lockdown needs to be re-imposed. ie Stay at home then you can't spread it

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But, aren't those people already self-isolating?

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Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO

Yes, you mentioned it but haven't sourced it.

I'm starting work now, hopefully you will make your mind up on which of the two contradictory arguments you are going to stick with.

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The source is the UK Health Think-Tank, and it is in todays South Wales Echo

You and others seem to be getting confused with what is norm in Wales now, ie we are easing the lockdown and 5 mile travel etc is allowed. What Im saying is that the number of cases in parts of North Wales is so significantly high that Drakeford needs o impose local lockdowns...just like he did in Wales in March. ie Stay at home

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Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO

But, aren't those people already self-isolating?

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Hope so, but they are just the ones they know about.

I wouldn't mind betting the majority of the Ingerlish would prefer to have a no frills Mark Drakeford in charge of them as opposed to an "entertaining' useless lump of lard. I'm certainly grateful for that.

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

The latest data shows the R number at 0.8 for Wales. Unfortunately we've now got the slowest decline of the disease of all the UK regions, and the highest number of cumulative cases in June.

51 new cases in Wrexham yesterday, that's the per capita equivalent of 300 new cases in Cardiff, and 'cautious' Drakeford is sitting on his hands.

He lives with the fact that we in Cardiff, RCT and N Wales continue to be hotspots, and herds us into 5 mile boundaries to help us catch it from each other.

If he's 'following the science', he needs to get new scientists.

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There is a theory that they need to get more stuff open to spread people out, like Bournemouth yesterday, even the local mp was saying there’s nowhere else to go down there so everyone just went to the beach.....

What about the 1000 plus crowd that descended on ogmore beach yesterday leading to mass brawling and the deployment of 15 police Van's

Was that drakeford fault ?

Hes put in a five mile zone and that lot just pissed all over it

Imagine if we follow englands lead ?

It will be carnage all summer

Barry island was full of pissed up coach loads from all over the place

You cant trust the british people and open everything up , they are thick as shit

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

I wouldn't mind betting the majority of the Ingerlish would prefer to have a no frills Mark Drakeford in charge of them as opposed to an "entertaining' useless lump of lard. I'm certainly grateful for that.

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Im talking about a serious outbreak in Wales, (currently the worse in the UK for cumulative cases), and our First Minister sitting on his hands, and all you can do is ignore that and criticise the bloke next door

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

What about the 1000 plus crowd that descended on ogmore beach yesterday leading to mass brawling and the deployment of 15 police Van's

Was that drakeford fault ?

Hes put in a five mile zone and that lot just pissed all over it

Imagine if we follow englands lead ?

It will be carnage all summer

Barry island was full of pissed up coach loads from all over the place

You cant trust the british people and open everything up , they are thick as shit

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apparently the SAGE group in its reporting warned of the likelihood of civil unrest when lockdown was lifted after people had been confined for so long.
so if the governments (Brit and Welsh) weren't kind of expecting it then perhaps they haven't been following the science quite as much as they lead us to believe.

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Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO

Yes, you mentioned it but haven't sourced it.

I'm starting work now, hopefully you will make your mind up on which of the two contradictory arguments you are going to stick with.

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Not contradictory, just some can't seem to grasp it. The 5 mile rule is part of easing the lockdown. I think it stupid for reasons outlined earlier.
The situation in parts on North Wales, now the worse in UK, needs some action and Drakeford should impose the full lockdown in those areas. ie stay at home , no travel etc

There is nothing to lose if he does it, maybe plenty to lose if he doesn't

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

apparently the SAGE group in its reporting warned of the likelihood of civil unrest when lockdown was lifted after people had been confined for so long.
so if the governments (Brit and Welsh) weren't kind of expecting it then perhaps they haven't been following the science quite as much as they lead us to believe.

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They dont need feckin science to predict the scenes from yesterday.

Or what will happen on July 4th.

Useless.

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Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO

That's where the 5 mile rule comes in surely? But, you argued against that rule because it would "herd people into hotspots". Now, you are saying that, where there is a hotspot, he needs to get tougher? It's all very confusing.

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The 5 mile rule was part of Drakeford easing the lockdown. The Lockdown was stay at home other than for essential travel

I really think this tough lockdown should be re-imposed in parts of North Wales

I mentioned 51 cases in Wrexham yesterday which per capita is same as 300 cases in Cardiff. If it had been so in Cardiff the Senedd would be jumping up and down to get tough

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

Im talking about a serious outbreak in Wales, (currently the worse in the UK for cumulative cases), and our First Minister sitting on his hands, and all you can do is ignore that and criticise the bloke next door

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You were criticizing him the other day for being too cautious, now he's sitting on his hands?
It seems you just want to criticize the guy.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

You were criticizing him the other day for being too cautious, now he's sitting on his hands?
It seems you just want to criticize the guy.

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Isn't "sitting on his hands" a euphemism for being overly cautious?

As I mentioned on another thread Mr Drakeford has now said that the Welsh government will stop the lockdown easing if there are more incidents like Ogmore.
doesn't he realise that the incident was indirectly the result of the lockdown rather than the result of easing it?

The language from the Government differs significantly from the Welsh Assembly. "reluctant" to close beaches, whereas Drakeford is threatening to do so. We'll be in lockdown here until every fag butt is removed from each and every Welsh beach. I can hear him now " you were warned...."

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

The language from the Government differs significantly from the Welsh Assembly. "reluctant" to close beaches, whereas Drakeford is threatening to do so. We'll be in lockdown here until every fag butt is removed from each and every Welsh beach. I can hear him now " you were warned...."

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I thought Drakeford was on a win-win, eh? :hehe:

What would you like him to do to stop mass gatherings at beaches, Monkfish? Genuine question as you seem to be opposed to every measure he takes but don't seem as upset at anything they do across the border.

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Originally Posted by Heisenberg

I thought Drakeford was on a win-win, eh? :hehe:

What would you like him to do to stop mass gatherings at beaches, Monkfish? Genuine question as you seem to be opposed to every measure he takes but don't seem as upset at anything they do across the border.

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I was highlighting what I consider the different emphasis between here and England. The Govt. seems to want to get things moving as soo as is practicably possible. Drakeford won't budge until he's 100% satisified the virus has been all but eliminated from Wales. One is an elected PM who comes under scrutiny and party political interrogation at every opportunity, and is responsible for the economic well being and future of the UK. The other is Mark Drakeford.

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

As I mentioned on another thread Mr Drakeford has now said that the Welsh government will stop the lockdown easing if there are more incidents like Ogmore.
doesn't he realise that the incident was indirectly the result of the lockdown rather than the result of easing it?

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How? Are you guessing that the Ogmore fiasco was a result of a mind-set stymied by the lockdown. Can you elucidate? Where's your evidence?

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

I was highlighting what I consider the different emphasis between here and England. The Govt. seems to want to get things moving as soo as is practicably possible. Drakeford won't budge until he's 100% satisified the virus has been all but eliminated from Wales. One is an elected PM who comes under scrutiny and party political interrogation at every opportunity, and is responsible for the economic well being and future of the UK. The other is Mark Drakeford.

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One is doing a good job. The other is Stanley Johnson's offspring.

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Originally Posted by goats

I guess your parents don’t know how they got it? That’s quite strange if they haven’t been out at all.....not been to any shops?
It does seem to be pot luck how badly you get it, my aunty caught it in a care home, she’s 89 diabetic with dementia and obese, she survived. As did my friends mum who has COPD and lives with an oxygen tank next to her everyday! We thought she was a goner....

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My step mother got it at Llandough.

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Originally Posted by az city

How? Are you guessing that the Ogmore fiasco was a result of a mind-set stymied by the lockdown. Can you elucidate? Where's your evidence?

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you're a great one for asking people for evidence or what was their 'polemic' etc. you are really a son of the internet aren't you. I told you where it came from in my post, if you are interested enough look it up yourself, if you're not why bother asking me?
The problem is that you have oyur own opinion and being a child of the internet you will simply keep
looking, ignoring all the posts that don't suit your opinion and keep looking for one that does.
what you really want to do is go out and live your life and form your opinons based on what happens to you over a number of years in the real world. But you won't will you, you will just sit in front of your screen and keep asking people for "evidence". I doubt you would understand what real evidence really is.
remember every time you sit with your fingers poised over the keyboard----- this is not real life!!
As I said, if you are interested enough look it up yourself. If you're not then don't bother.

Oh and the other point, where did you get the phrase, "mindset stymied by the lockdown" from? Clearly not from my post so you made that bit up all on your own did you? There are others on here who make things up about other peoples post so they can give the answer they want. Joining them are you?

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

I was highlighting what I consider the different emphasis between here and England. The Govt. seems to want to get things moving as soo as is practicably possible. Drakeford won't budge until he's 100% satisified the virus has been all but eliminated from Wales. One is an elected PM who comes under scrutiny and party political interrogation at every opportunity, and is responsible for the economic well being and future of the UK. The other is Mark Drakeford.

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Get things moving by declaring major incidents at beaches. Sounds like a well-thought out plan that one. :hehe:

Pubs open next week - it's going to be a riot. Literally.

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

you're a great one for asking people for evidence or what was their 'polemic' etc. you are really a son of the internet aren't you. I told you where it came from in my post, if you are interested enough look it up yourself, if you're not why bother asking me?
The problem is that you have oyur own opinion and being a child of the internet you will simply keep
looking, ignoring all the posts that don't suit your opinion and keep looking for one that does.
what you really want to do is go out and live your life and form your opinons based on what happens to you over a number of years in the real world. But you won't will you, you will just sit in front of your screen and keep asking people for "evidence". I doubt you would understand what real evidence really is.
remember every time you sit with your fingers poised over the keyboard----- this is not real life!!
As I said, if you are interested eenough look it up yourself. If you're not then don't bother.

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Anecdotes do not data make. Data is the basis for systematic evidence.

I don't see in your original post where, other than drawing upon your own inference, you have pointed at any evidence.

One other thing. Why do you assume I'm male and ambulatory? Is that an in-built prejudice?

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Originally Posted by az city

Anecdotes do not data make. Data is the basis for systematic evidence.

I don't see in your original post where, other than drawing upon your own inference, you have pointed at any evidence.

One other thing. Why do you assume I'm male and ambulatory? Is that an in-built prejudice?

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Don't you understand. xsnaggle posts opinions, not facts. But, he often posts those opinions as facts. Until you ask him for evidence, then those facts are definitely opinions and he isn't going to change them no matter what evidence is put in front of him. He doesn't read papers, "online nor real", but he often quotes papers when they give a story that suits his opinion.

He is a dinosaur, an irrelevance, the bloke you'd buy a pint in the pub and then quickly scurry away before he opens his mouth to speak. But, he is our dinosaur, and our irrelevant bloke. Buy him another pint, and he'll fill your ears with garbage. He has plenty of it to give.

[QUOTE=az city;5091192]Anecdotes do not data make. Data is the basis for systematic evidence.

I don't see in your original post where, other than drawing upon your own inference, you have pointed at any evidence.

One other thing. Why do you assume I'm male and ambulatory? Is that an in-built prejudice?[/
Your sex is irrelevant and you ambulatory ability is of no concern to me. But I'm sure if you were a cripple you'd have let every single person on this board know by now. I also think you use big words to protect your lack of personal experience of life.
As I said this is a football message board, where is there a requirement for "data as the basis for systematic evidence"? This is a chat room not a place to perfect your thesis or dissertation.
do you really talk to people face to face and demand that about every thing they say? Get a life!

[QUOTE=xsnaggle;5091199]

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Originally Posted by az city

Anecdotes do not data make. Data is the basis for systematic evidence.

I don't see in your original post where, other than drawing upon your own inference, you have pointed at any evidence.

One other thing. Why do you assume I'm male and ambulatory? Is that an in-built prejudice?[/
Your sex is irrelevant and you ambulatory ability is of no concern to me. But I'm sure if you were a cripple you'd have let every single person on this board know by now. I also think you use big words to protect your lack of personal experience of life.
As I said this is a football message board, where is there a requirement for "data as the basis for systematic evidence"? This is a chat room not a place to perfect your thesis or dissertation.
do you really talk to people face to face and demand that about every thing they say? Get a life!

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Bloody hell - you did really say cripple like it is 1976. And what is it with people getting upset at "big" words these days?

The reason that I ask for evidence is not to correct you, or to change your opinion. It is just so that the casual reader can make up their mind about whether the crap you spout is true or not. Without people challenging you, some people may be swayed by what you say (I doubt it though, you are pretty thick and most people accept that).

[QUOTE=CCFCC3PO;5091208]

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Bloody hell - you did really say cripple like it is 1976. And what is it with people getting upset at "big" words these days?

The reason that I ask for evidence is not to correct you, or to change your opinion. It is just so that the casual reader can make up their mind about whether the crap you spout is true or not. Without people challenging you, some people may be swayed by what you say (I doubt it though, you are pretty thick and most people accept that).

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:wave:

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Originally Posted by dml1954

All he is interested in is making a name for himself.

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I once saw a comment by someone that read something like " he's happy for Wales to be like a big country park , and the thought of having a more vibrant private sector and economy would result in him not being in power ???

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Originally Posted by az city

How? Are you guessing that the Ogmore fiasco was a result of a mind-set stymied by the lockdown. Can you elucidate? Where's your evidence?

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Easy one Mr Drakeford only allow restricted access for large gatherings in these type of areas, should be easy enough to control via our single access roads into these beach areas such as Ogmore, arrest and fine ofrenders thousand bucks for any gathering over 10. Fine folk consuming alcohol and drugs at these areas . Use those funds to pay police bonus and overtime for their efforts .

And only allow family access with maximum restrictions on how many one time , if you make it easy it will be easy as self control and responsibility is not a trait we have in abundance.

Drakeford could follow the Singapore example of course....

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...eaker-12869052

Note: most of the perpetrators were Brits.

(S$8000 is approx £5000!).

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

Drakeford could follow the Singapore example of course....

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...eaker-12869052

Note: most of the perpetrators were Brits.

(S$8000 is approx £5000!).

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Oh he won't carry that type of action out not tough enough , he'd rather churlishy punish everyone .

Pity he didn't copy Singapore's Singapore's Covid policy full stop and make Wales a shinning example in the UK her certainly had the powers to do something different, rather than just lockdown ,sadly he didn't protect and lockdown care homes that well

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Oh he won't carry that type of action out not tough enough , he'd rather churlishy punish everyone .

Pity he didn't copy Singapore's Singapore's Covid policy full stop and make Wales a shinning example in the UK her certainly had the powers to do something different, rather than just lockdown ,sadly he didn't protect and lockdown care homes that well

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By the time Wales had power to do anything it was too late.

UK new Covid19 was a threat at the start of the year and produced legislation in Feb. We locked down 6 weeks later by which time it was too late and with no effective testing function we were doomed to failure before the end of March.

The blame doesn't lie at Drakeford's feet regardless of your opinion of him.

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Originally Posted by Harry Paget Flashman

By the time Wales had power to do anything it was too late.

UK new Covid19 was a threat at the start of the year and produced legislation in Feb. We locked down 6 weeks later by which time it was too late and with no effective testing function we were doomed to failure before the end of March.

The blame doesn't lie at Drakeford's feet regardless of your opinion of him.

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The few people I’ve spoke to about him seem to back him and his stance, one person I spoke to says her mother, who lives over the border, wishes he was making the decisions for England.

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle"Mandela jailed for Murder"

:wave:

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The day you're having, I am wondering if that waving smiley is directed at me, or the ounce of credibility you were holding onto?