Remember when we were a small club ?

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Originally Posted by Bruce Parry

Another thread berating the plastics. How dare they have the nerve to support Barry, Merthyr, Port Talbot, etc instead of their local football league club. We’d be huge mun.

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I think you will find people who watch barry town are decent fans and are often more than occasional visitors to watch cardiff

I am talking about people watching cardiff city in the premiership then not bothering

Thats why we will never be a big club

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

So your criticising people who actually watched City and paid their money to come through the door?

In fairness, they can be termed customers. Football is a business, a product. People choose to pay, they also choose to **** off when they want.

Fact of life.

I'm not with you that all these once paying customers are now traipsing up to Man United and Liverpool every other week butt.

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I thought you were a socialist , you are clearly not

Customers , product , free will , bloody hell you are a libertarian butt

I am saying these people pay for a season ticket then either get bored or feck off once we go down

Its part of the psyche here and why we will never be a big club

Its reality

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I thought you were a socialist , you are clearly not

Customers , product , free will , bloody hell you are a libertarian butt

I am saying these people pay for a season ticket then either get bored or feck off once we go down

Its part of the psyche here and why we will never be a big club

Its reality

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They're not my views mun.

They're the views of the owner.

Hence, I don't fund him or his product.

Remember when he turned his product red and then made a comment that it would find new fans/customers?

You reap what you sow.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

I might be wrong but I think the word your looking for is fickle fans .

However I do wonder if we became a regular top 6 side could fans in our area actually afford the increase in match prices to fund better facilities, wages etc , or would it see fans take the cheaper option of TV subscription

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Agree with you. Citys support has always been historically notoriously fickle.

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

They're not my views mun.

They're the views of the owner.

Hence, I don't fund him or his product.

Remember when he turned his product red and then made a comment that it would find new fans/customers?

You reap what you sow.

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So we have people who are football fans who buy season tickets to watch cardiff city then we get relegated and whoosh they are gone

Do you think the stupid rebrand lost us the most fans or relegation from the premier league ?

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I think you will find people who watch barry town are decent fans and are often more than occasional visitors to watch cardiff

I am talking about people watching cardiff city in the premiership then not bothering

Thats why we will never be a big club

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If we stayed up there though, they might well stay. Is Cardiff County population looking to be over 600,000 in the next few years with the huge expansion of the western suburbs, do we even get 2/3% of these through the turnstiles? Nope, not unless we are up there and we haven’t done that yet. 5/10 years up there and maybe they’d switch from fickle to regular but it’s not the same world as football in 1988.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

So we have people who are football fans who buy season tickets to watch cardiff city then we get relegated and whoosh they are gone

Do you think the stupid rebrand lost us the most fans or relegation from the premier league ?

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Obviously relegation.

Not the fact these missing supporters are travelling up to and watching Man United every other week, which was your initial point.

The rebrand didn't really noticeably dent the support. Which tells it's own story really.

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

Obviously relegation.

Not the fact these missing supporters are travelling up to and watching Man United every other week, which was your initial point.

The rebrand didn't really noticeably dent the support. Which tells it's own story really.

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no it wasnt , it was that south wales is full of man united and liverpool fans, they are the type of people who would buy a season ticket to watch cardiff in the premier league , get all excited to watch the big games , then once relegated they just feck off

The cardiff city story

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

no it wasnt , it was that south wales is full of man united and liverpool fans, they are the type of people who would buy a season ticket to watch cardiff in the premier league , get all excited to watch the big games , then once relegated they just feck off

The cardiff city story

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OK.

Woukd your rather these glory hunting plastics in the stadium in periods of success or not?

The thing with the " big game charlies " is that they lose interest, but if we kept them interested or a while, that interest soon becomes a habit

now in the old days, people used the " oh crowd issues / hooligan issues " would put people off, now these days we have none of that shenanigans, so maybe keeping them interested for a while might keep em coming

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

OK.

Woukd your rather these glory hunting plastics in the stadium in periods of success or not?

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The club cannot possibly grow unless it gets the glory hunters in.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

The club cannot possibly grow unless it gets the glory hunters in.

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100% agree.

There needs to be a culture of supporting the club developed in good times and bad. For me, that hasn't been evident in my life time hence City's notoriously fickle support which can be evidenced by attendances.

I don't think the lack of numbers in attendances, bearing in mind City enjoy higher averages now than they have in my lifetime are due to the South Wales public traipsing up to the North West to watch non local teams?

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

100% agree.

There needs to be a culture of supporting the club developed in good times and bad. For me, that hasn't been evident in my life time hence City's notoriously fickle support which can be evidenced by attendances.

I don't think the lack of numbers in attendances, bearing in mind City enjoy higher averages now than they have in my lifetime are due to the South Wales public traipsing up to the North West to watch non local teams?

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I just don't consider Cardiff a 'football' city. Like sheffield, Newcastle, Norwich, Manchester etc.

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

100% agree.

There needs to be a culture of supporting the club developed in good times and bad. For me, that hasn't been evident in my life time hence City's notoriously fickle support which can be evidenced by attendances.

I don't think the lack of numbers in attendances, bearing in mind City enjoy higher averages now than they have in my lifetime are due to the South Wales public traipsing up to the North West to watch non local teams?

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You reckon thats the only reason ?

I will put it in a sandwich for you

South wales is and always has been able to muster a crowd for a big occasion . The six nations , cup ties in the past against man city , spurs , arsenal etc

But I am afraid that the area doesn't back its capital city football team . And it never really has for consistent periods .

Its clear that for those big games against spurs , man city , arsenal and that the crowds for premiership games contains fans who really don't care about cardiff city at all

For some Cardiff City is a second team, they will go to the big games , will watch the club when we are doing well or come down a few times a season

We dont and never will have the fanatical fan base of Sunderland, Derby, Pompey etc

You could offer some south wales fans free season tickets and they would rather watch man united on sky

We are no longer a big fish in a small pond......actually some of our gates in the old division four were dreadful for a city the size of cardiff so we were a small fish in a small pond but we are just a bad season away from being in league two and unlike Sunderland or Leeds who soon bounced back , we could be stuck there for a few years , the crowds will drop like a stone

I personally hope Harris sticks it up em next season , we go up , we stay up and those who come 6 or 7 times a season get hooked .

But the south wales scousers and mancs ?

No chance

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

I just don't consider Cardiff a 'football' city. Like sheffield, Newcastle, Norwich, Manchester etc.

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Derby , Nottingham , Portsmouth , Burnley , towns and cities where the local football team is part of the culture

Its really sad that it isn't but it is what it is

Things could go either way , I hope sincerely that we get promoted and stay there but we are more likely to be a crystal palace or a burnley

Which isn't the end of the world but given the population catchment of the club it could be so much better

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Derby , Nottingham , Portsmouth , Burnley , towns and cities where the local football team is part of the culture

Its really sad that it isn't but it is what it is

Things could go either way , I hope sincerely that we get promoted and stay there but we are more likely to be a crystal palace or a burnley

Which isn't the end of the world but given the population catchment of the club it could be so much better

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You could also argue that aside from Manchester of those cities mentioned - and they also have two big, and now both very successful clubs that Cardiff despite size simply has far far more to offer that those other cities. I'm not surprised places like Sheffield and Norwich have solid football fan bases, there's **** all else to do there, generally speaking.

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Originally Posted by Der Kaiser

You could also argue that aside from Manchester of those cities mentioned - and they also have two big, and now both very successful clubs that Cardiff despite size simply has far far more to offer that those other cities. I'm not surprised places like Sheffield and Norwich have solid football fan bases, there's **** all else to do there, generally speaking.

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Sheffield and Nottingham are very vibrant cities

And Sheffield has two football teams competing for the areas support

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

You reckon thats the only reason ?

I will put it in a sandwich for you

South wales is and always has been able to muster a crowd for a big occasion . The six nations , cup ties in the past against man city , spurs , arsenal etc

But I am afraid that the area doesn't back its capital city football team . And it never really has for consistent periods .

Its clear that for those big games against spurs , man city , arsenal and that the crowds for premiership games contains fans who really don't care about cardiff city at all

For some Cardiff City is a second team, they will go to the big games , will watch the club when we are doing well or come down a few times a season

We dont and never will have the fanatical fan base of Sunderland, Derby, Pompey etc

You could offer some south wales fans free season tickets and they would rather watch man united on sky

We are no longer a big fish in a small pond......actually some of our gates in the old division four were dreadful for a city the size of cardiff so we were a small fish in a small pond but we are just a bad season away from being in league two and unlike Sunderland or Leeds who soon bounced back , we could be stuck there for a few years , the crowds will drop like a stone

I personally hope Harris sticks it up em next season , we go up , we stay up and those who come 6 or 7 times a season get hooked .

But the south wales scousers and mancs ?

No chance

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Finger me Jesu...

I agree with everything you've more or less said. It could be argued we're paraphrasing each other.

Your initial point was though, that Citys crowds were poor because we have hordes of South Walians traipsing up to the North West.

Let's agree to disagree.

Can someone give me an example of City's "notoriously fickle" support since we moved into Cardiff City Stadium? In fact, I'll extend that to 2003 - seems to me that you have to go back to the twentieth century for the sort of behaviour City fans, deservedly, got that reputation for.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Can someone give me an example of City's "notoriously fickle" support since we moved into Cardiff City Stadium? In fact, I'll extend that to 2003 - seems to me that you have to go back to the twentieth century for the sort of behaviour City fans, deservedly, got that reputation for.

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https://www.transfermarkt.com/cardif...ung/verein/603

Doesn't tell the full story, but the average attendances there seem to support that, we even endured a couple of seasons of Russel Slade without dropping below 15k average.
also shows how much we came on as a club in the Jones/Ridsdale era.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

https://www.transfermarkt.com/cardif...ung/verein/603

Doesn't tell the full story, but the average attendances there seem to support that, we even endured a couple of seasons of Russel Slade without dropping below 15k average.
also shows how much we came on as a club in the Jones/Ridsdale era.

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I take it the average for 19/20 is so low because they're including all of the behind closed doors games and dividing by 23?

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Can someone give me an example of City's "notoriously fickle" support since we moved into Cardiff City Stadium? In fact, I'll extend that to 2003 - seems to me that you have to go back to the twentieth century for the sort of behaviour City fans, deservedly, got that reputation for.

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http://european-football-statistics....eague/carc.htm

Theres quite a big drop from Malkys season in the Premier League to the Russel Slade seasons.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I take it the average for 19/20 is so low because they're including all of the behind closed doors games and dividing by 23?

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Ah yeah that makes sense

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

http://european-football-statistics....eague/carc.htm

Theres quite a big drop from Malkys season in the Premier League to the Russel Slade seasons.

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Yes, it is a fair old drop, but the first season post relegation was awful in terms of entertainment and style of play and I'd say people were put off by the signal the Slade appointment sent out. For long stretches of this season it felt like 14/15 again and I think we would have seen a significant drop in season ticket sales if they'd gone on sale at the usual time in a non Covid world.

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

http://european-football-statistics....eague/carc.htm

Theres quite a big drop from Malkys season in the Premier League to the Russel Slade seasons.

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if you look at decades, our best 4 have clearly been 20s, 50s, 2000- 2010 and 2010-2020
The worst by far the 80s and 90s

Which of course follows the clubs success quite closely.

If we spent a few seasons in the bottom leagues I think our attendances would be a little more resiliant than in the past, as we have 2 decades of relative success *in a row*, but they would still drop more than someone who has been at the top for most of the time like newcastle etc.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

if you look at decades, our best 4 have clearly been 20s, 50s, 2000- 2010 and 2010-2020
The worst by far the 80s and 90s

Which of course follows the clubs success quite closely.

If we spent a few seasons in the bottom leagues I think our attendances would be a little more resiliant than in the past, as we have 2 decades of relative success *in a row*, but they would still drop more than someone who has been at the top for most of the time like newcastle etc.

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We're not the only club like it. Wolves had nearly 26k in 1980 when they finished 6th in 1980. When they were relegated to the 4th division 6 seasons later their average attendance dropped by almost 22k to 4k.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

We're not the only club like it. Wolves had nearly 26k in 1980 when they finished 6th in 1980. When they were relegated to the 4th division 6 seasons later their average attendance dropped by almost 22k to 4k.

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Wolves down to 4K, I don’t recall that? When we both w3nt up in 1988 they had about 12000 at theirs

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Originally Posted by goats

Wolves down to 4K, I don’t recall that? When we both w3nt up in 1988 they had about 12000 at theirs

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http://european-football-statistics....eague/wolw.htm

It had just over doubled by that 1987/88 promotion season. The attendance when we won 4-1 there was 10,077.

I think it's also worth noting how crowds slumped pretty much across the board in the 1980s as well.

Attachment 4026

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Originally Posted by goats

Wolves down to 4K, I don’t recall that? When we both w3nt up in 1988 they had about 12000 at theirs

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http://european-football-statistics....eague/wolw.htm

1986 and 87.

That’s surprised me too.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

http://european-football-statistics....eague/wolw.htm

It had just over doubled by that 1987/88 promotion season. The attendance when we won 4-1 there was 10,077.

I think it's also worth noting how crowds slumped pretty much across the board in the 1980s as well.

Attachment 4026

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Think I went there the year after we both went up, they went up again I think with Steve bull etc, sure they had over 16000 so there crowds shot right back up. Only 2 stands open too.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Derby , Nottingham , Portsmouth , Burnley , towns and cities where the local football team is part of the culture

Its really sad that it isn't but it is what it is

Things could go either way , I hope sincerely that we get promoted and stay there but we are more likely to be a crystal palace or a burnley

Which isn't the end of the world but given the population catchment of the club it could be so much better

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Last time we were in Premier League our average attendance of 31500 was the 11th highest just below Leicester, above Wolves,Southampton,Brighton,and way above Palace,Burnley etc. If we were an established Premier League club we would average 40k and if a top 6 side 60k. We have the potential to be a really big club but we need to establish ourselves in the Premier League to achieve that standard!

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

People can choose their products if they want but in my opinion someone living in South wales and supporting Liverpool and United are arses

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It happens everywhere though. I see Man U and Liverpool apparel than Yeovil or Exeter City gear down here.

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Originally Posted by Ianto13

Last time we were in Premier League our average attendance of 31500 was the 11th highest just below Leicester, above Wolves,Southampton,Brighton,and way above Palace,Burnley etc. If we were an established Premier League club we would average 40k and if a top 6 side 60k. We have the potential to be a really big club but we need to establish ourselves in the Premier League to achieve that standard!

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even if we remain a championship or yo-yo club for another 10 years then I think we should see a gradual increase in support, as the new generations of fans coming through should more and more outweigh the "lost generation" of fans from the 80s and 90s

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

It happens everywhere though. I see Man U and Liverpool apparel than Yeovil or Exeter City gear down here.

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Yeovil and Exeter City are lower league clubs and probably always will be

They are also clubs with small populations

Cardiff is a big urban area with a large catchment area.

Since 2003 we have been a championship club , have been to the fa Cup final , the league Cup final and had two promotions to the top flight

Yet people in their thousands walk around like idiots in their Liverpool tops

Complete waste of space

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Yeovil and Exeter City are lower league clubs and probably always will be

They are also clubs with small populations

Cardiff is a big urban area with a large catchment area.

Since 2003 we have been a championship club , have been to the fa Cup final , the league Cup final and had two promotions to the top flight

Yet people in their thousands walk around like idiots in their Liverpool tops

Complete waste of space

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it happens all over the country, i live in ipswich, certainly a more famous and successful side than us, guess what, for every town supporter/top you see you'll see more Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool or Man U tops,

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Yeovil and Exeter City are lower league clubs and probably always will be

They are also clubs with small populations

Cardiff is a big urban area with a large catchment area.

Since 2003 we have been a championship club , have been to the fa Cup final , the league Cup final and had two promotions to the top flight

Yet people in their thousands walk around like idiots in their Liverpool tops

Complete waste of space

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You reckon people should just ditch their sides and support Cardiff? :hehe:

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

You reckon people should just ditch their sides and support Cardiff? :hehe:

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if they are South Wales based then either support County, bluebirds , Swansea or one of the Welsh league sides

If you live in South Wales and are from Liverpool or Manchester or Leeds or Exeter, fine

If you are not get behind south wales teams .......or **** off

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Originally Posted by Packerman

it happens all over the country, i live in ipswich, certainly a more famous and successful side than us, guess what, for every town supporter/top you see you'll see more Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool or Man U tops,

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South Wales is one of the worst areas in the country for plastics

You can sort of understand someone from Taunton or Gloucester being a big time Charlie but with cardifff and Swansea here there is no excuse

Swansea fans who travel from west Wales to watch the jacks , football fans

Some idiot from pontypridd walking round in a Liverpool top ? Complete arse

I can remember dreaming about "getting back where we belong" (old Division 2) and thinking we could get crowds of 15,000.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

South Wales is one of the worst areas in the country for plastics

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How on earth can you possibly know that? Bus loads? Maybe they just can't get the train because the train system is ****ing terrible. You love to talk in the biggest sweeping generalisations about every place in the UK as if you're some sort of CCMB UK Culture ambassador?

Plastics exist everywhere.

You're bleeting on about every team under the sun having better support but the facts are a lot of clubs even if it was 50 years ago have won a trophy to generate even that extra 5-10% support. IF we had won the FA Cup or League Cup, our attendances would've gone up and probably retained some of them in the rush for european tickets.

Sludge mate, we rightly or wrongly play second fiddle to another sport which a lot of these cities just simply do not. We also have to accept that we have an awful history, so anyone who is not automatically a Cardiff fan, would probably not be that inclined to come down and check us out as they'd hear about the negative things that used to surround the club - despite the club doing a fantastic job of improving the image.