Radio 1 refusing to play Fairytale of New York without edit.

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Originally Posted by surge

It's never happened to me so it doesn't happen to other people?

I wouldn't argue that being Welsh gives you substantial insight into what it means to identify as one of the protected characteristics but there are many actions which make up discrimination (historical and present day) and a relatively small number of those have a crossover with experience of Welsh people. But if marginalisation is act of treating something as if it's less or not important then not sure how you can say Wales as country and Welsh culture hasn't been marginalised, even if you're just describing how Welsh people treat those things without going into anything else. Perhaps the main difference though is that we are able to chose to have being Welsh as an inconsequential part of your life or not part of your life at all whereas as a person who is potentially hurt by this word isn't in a position where they can do that and too often it's other people making sure it's a consequential part of their life for all the wrong reasons.

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I'm not saying Welsh culture hasn't be marginalised, quite the opposite. But I just think it's a different argument.

Being Welsh hasn't stopped me progressing in my job, holding hands with my partner, worried about entering a country as it's legal to be Welsh, it doesn't make me more likely to get assaulted, I've never had to hide being Welsh and there are at least 3 million other people who are proud to be welsh with no fear of real prejudice from society.

I just don't think it's a helpful comparisson.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I'm not saying Welsh culture hasn't be marginalised, quite the opposite. But I just think it's a different argument.

Being Welsh hasn't stopped me progressing in my job, holding hands with my partner, worried about entering a country as it's legal to be Welsh, it doesn't make me more likely to get assaulted, I've never had to hide being Welsh and there are at least 3 million other people who are proud to be welsh with no fear of real prejudice from society.

I just don't think it's a helpful comparisson.

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Being Welsh and being from the LGBT+ community is not the same, I hoped I had made that clear in my last sentence by saying a person who is potentially hurt by this word can't chose not to be LGBT+ whereas one can chose not to be Welsh, and accept my middle section within that paragraph has stepped in another direction.

The point I was trying to make at the start (admittedly, misusing "discrimination") is there is some crossover which gives some limited understanding of the experience. For example, queer people being underrepresented in the and/or unfairly represented by the media we see in day-to-day life or being treated as, at best, an afterthought in offices of political power which is also part of being a marinalised group. It's not the same as still having a higher risk of being ostracised by your family, being passed over for a promotion, not being able to dress how you would like to in too many places or having to check travel advice before travelling, but there was a reason the LGBT+ activist groups and Welsh miners were able to work together as demonstrated in film Pride.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

The triggered generation are the ones crying that they can't hear an offensive word on a radio station they don't listen to right?

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the triggered generation are the ones who think them getting offended affords them some special rights and privileges. it doesn't.

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Originally Posted by surge

Being Welsh and being from the LGBT+ community is not the same, I hoped I had made that clear in my last sentence by saying a person who is potentially hurt by this word can't chose not to be LGBT+ whereas one can chose not to be Welsh, and accept my middle section within that paragraph has stepped in another direction.

The point I was trying to make at the start (admittedly, misusing "discrimination") is there is some crossover which gives some understanding of the experience. For example, queer people being underrepresented in the and/or unfairly represented by the media we see in day-to-day life or being treated as, at best, an afterthought in offices of political power which is also part of being a marinalised group. It's not the same as still having a higher risk of being ostracised by your family, being passed over for a promotion, not being able to dress how you would like to in too many places or having to check travel advice before travelling, but there was a reason the LGBT+ communities and Welsh miners were able to work together as demonstrated in film Pride.

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You made a good point, I didn't mean to undermine it at all, apologies if I did. I just didn't agree with the original poster saying if being welsh means you can understand how homophobia feels.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Spoken like a true straight white man who can’t see past the end of his own nose :thumbup:

This whole thread seems to be full of people who can’t see something from someone else’s point of view and have equated homophobia and just being a bit mean.

I was always of the same opinion but try listening to other people who have better experience of it and showing some empathy.

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I lived in England for quite a while. I'm well aware of how marginalised some people can try and make you feel just for being "different".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pxwdJkj3Ts

if you can't laugh at this, then there is something wrong with you

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Originally Posted by TISS

the triggered generation are the ones who think them getting offended affords them some special rights and privileges. it doesn't.

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The fact you keep saying this makes you look so short sighted and thick it's unbelievable.

You're obviously an intelligent guy but you can't appear to grasp the actual point here. The fact you say anyone disagreeing with you is offended just paints you out as being short sighted and narrow minded. You haven't managed to give one reasonable argument about why banning the word is bad other than people shouldn't be offended.

I honestly had the exact same opinion as you, but reading a lot around the subject made me appreciate that maybe I just didn't understand how it feels for people who are the ones affected.

Sometimes there is nothing wrong with holding your hands up and saying "I don't understand this and if it makes people's lives better while not making anyone else's life worse why not try and understand it"

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Originally Posted by TISS

I lived in England for quite a while. I'm well aware of how marginalised some people can try and make you feel just for being "different".

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I've lived in England for 15 years, France for 5 and the US for 1, it's not something I've ever experienced.

How did people try and marginalise you?

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

The fact you keep saying this makes you look so short sighted and thick it's unbelievable.

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ad hominem really is your MO. you just cannot abide anyone holding a different view point to you own. Maybe we should just make you king of the world, since you're so enlightened.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

You're obviously an intelligent guy but you can't appear to grasp the actual point here. The fact you say anyone disagreeing with you is offended just paints you out as being short sighted and narrow minded. You haven't managed to give one reasonable argument about why banning the word is bad other than people shouldn't be offended.

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the point is quite clear to me - people get offended over words, meanings of which change over time.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I honestly had the exact same opinion as you, but reading a lot around the subject made me appreciate that maybe I just didn't understand how it feels for people who are the ones affected.

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I've been on the receiving end, and gave any such comments the consideration they deserved

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Sometimes there is nothing wrong with holding your hands up and saying "I don't understand this and if it makes people's lives better while not making anyone else's life worse why not try and understand it"

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I go back to my point, you're suggesting that words themselves can make someone's life miserable. no one is advocating promoting racism, homophobia or any form of bigotry and hatred. We even have laws that stop the promotion of such things, and its quite correct that we do.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I've lived in England for 15 years, France for 5 and the US for 1, it's not something I've ever experienced.

How did people try and marginalise you?

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being Welsh, how do you think? and I'm not referencing your pals, I'm talking about people you don't know

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Originally Posted by TISS

being Welsh, how do you think? and I'm not referencing your pals, I'm talking about people you don't know

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I have no idea how you were marginalised, please tell me.

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Originally Posted by TISS

ad hominem really is your MO. you just cannot abide anyone holding a different view point to you own. Maybe we should just make you king of the world, since you're so enlightened.

the point is quite clear to me - people get offended over words, meanings of which change over time.


I've been on the receiving end, and gave any such comments the consideration they deserved

I go back to my point, you're suggesting that words themselves can make someone's life miserable. no one is advocating promoting racism, homophobia or any form of bigotry and hatred. We even have laws that stop the promotion of such things, and its quite correct that we do.

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The fact we have laws against those things sorts of proves a point that people are justified to be offended by certain things then doesn't it?

30 years ago people would have been saying why are people so offended by things that are now as you say "quite correct that we do" stop promoting.

Maybe you can accept that fact that people being "offended" by these words is the start of postive progression for society moving towards marginalisd people being more free by not "advocating promoting racism, homophobia or any form of bigotry and hatred" in your words.

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Originally Posted by Its been emotional

Stop listening to Radio 1

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Stopped listening years ago! It always has been shite in the main, ever since I was a kid when my parents had it on from 1970 onwards. There has only ever been one good Radio 1 daytime DJ and that was the great Johnnie Walker, and he left in 1976! Enjoyed John Peel and Tommy Vance back in the day, but that really was decades ago. It really is fecking awful. Brain dead music played for morons by asswipes, is the kindest thing I can say about 'wonderful' Radio 1

The other thing to be said is that plenty of LGBTQ+ people won't be hurt by the line in this song and would rather Radio 1 focusses on:

• LGBTQ services being cut
• The media's anti-trans campaign
• A quarter of young homeless people being LGBTQ
• LGBTQ refugees being deported to countries with anti-LGBTQ laws

Have LGBTQ+ people asked for this word to be removed or is it people not from those groups being "helpful" by doing something that takes 2 minutes and really has a relatively small positive impact only while simultaneously pissing off people who already feel things they enjoy are being taken away?

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Originally Posted by surge

The other thing to be said is that plenty of LGBTQ+ people won't be hurt by the line in this song and would rather Radio 1 focusses on:

• LGBTQ services being cut
• The media's anti-trans campaign
• A quarter of young homeless people being LGBTQ
• LGBTQ refugees being deported to countries with anti-LGBTQ laws

Have LGBTQ+ people asked for this word to be removed or is it people not from those groups being "helpful" by doing something that takes 2 minutes and really has a relatively small positive impact only while simultaneously pissing off people who already feel things they enjoy are being taken away?

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Who feels that things they enjoy are being taken away AND listens to Radio 1?

If you drew a Venn Diagram of "people getting offended at what Radio 1 has done" and "people who are completely oblivious to the concept of radio edits" you'd have a circle.

Absolute weapons. Like that Daily Fail columnist who said they'd censor this but still play that "wet-assed pussy" song. They censor that too, you muppet.

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Originally Posted by celticknight

If you drew a Venn Diagram of "people getting offended at what Radio 1 has done" and "people who are completely oblivious to the concept of radio edits" you'd have a circle.

Absolute weapons. Like that Daily Fail columnist who said they'd censor this but still play that "wet-assed pussy" song. They censor that too, you muppet.

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The people writing the columns know that and are just doing it to whip people up into a frenzy because it get clicks.

Then certain people like users of this messageboard get taken in by it and form their whole personality around it.

This faux outrage has always been pushed by certain right leaning papers (the mail and especially the express) but because of the rise of social media it’s taking in more people than ever.

Then these idiots think everyone who hasn’t been taken in by this is offended. It’s painful reading opinions online these days as they’re often by morons who are targeted like this.

Taffy was a welshman taffy was a thief.....so according to King Croesy that's a different sort of hurt than being called a faggot.

I've lived in five different parts of England (both rural and urban) over a period of 45 years and have never had any problem of any description. I can't say that I had a problem when I lived in Scotland and Germany either.

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Originally Posted by Feedback

the triggered generation are the ones who think them getting offended affords them some special rights and privileges. it doesn't.

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According to who?

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

According to who?

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The triggered generation

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Originally Posted by Feedback

The triggered generation

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I assume the "triggered generation" are the people/snowflakes aged 40+ who are getting really upset at the apparent "censoring" online?

Just like they got triggered by Sainsbury's and a Tesco advert etc. etc.

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Originally Posted by Feedback

The triggered generation

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Are you their spokesman, or do you have specific experience of this, or is it because you read this nonsense and believe it as it suits your agenda?

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Originally Posted by celticknight

I assume the "triggered generation" are the people/snowflakes aged 40+ who are getting really upset at the apparent "censoring" online?

Just like they got triggered by Sainsbury's and a Tesco advert etc. etc.

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Well said.

I work with lots of young people. I've studied with lots of young people over the last few years. The line that they're the ones easily offended by things is utter bollocks.

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Originally Posted by Whisperer

Taffy was a welshman taffy was a thief.....so according to King Croesy that's a different sort of hurt than being called a faggot.

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I think it’s just a different situation. It wouldn’t make me feel like I wasn’t accepted in society because it isn’t that prevalent.

Whereas homophobia has been used to exclude gay people for most of modern life.

You’re welcome to disagree but I think homophobia is probably a bigger problem than someone making fun of you for being Welsh.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Well said.

I work with lots of young people. I've studied with lots of young people over the last few years. The line that they're the ones easily offended by things is utter bollocks.

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Triggered generation, social justice worrier, snowflake and words like these are used by people who get most of their information from reading articles online designed to wind them up. And have not seen any of this in the real world.

Kids these days aren’t more offended than when I was a kid. I think if anything they just seem to be a bit more conscious of others, which is surely a positive.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Triggered generation, social justice worrier, snowflake and words like these are used by people who get most of their information from reading articles online designed to wind them up. And have not seen any of this in the real world.

Kids these days aren’t more offended than when I was a kid. I think if anything they just seem to be a bit more conscious of others, which is surely a positive.

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I agree, not all are offended, but there are some people, albeit a very few in number, who feel the need to be offended by everyone and everything. We had a girl work for us, just out of university, and she almost had a stroke when one of our clients referred to his partner as half-caste (a term the partner was comfortable with). She didn't last long. She was white.

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Originally Posted by Feedback

I agree, not all are offended, but there are some people, albeit a very few in number, who feel the need to be offended by everyone and everything. We had a girl work for us, just out of university, and she almost had a stroke when one of our clients referred to his partner as half-caste (a term the partner was comfortable with). She didn't last long. She was white.

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What a load or bollocks :hehe:

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

What a load or bollocks :hehe:

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her name was Lily, and **** me, she moaned about everything.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I think it’s just a different situation. It wouldn’t make me feel like I wasn’t accepted in society because it isn’t that prevalent.

Whereas homophobia has been used to exclude gay people for most of modern life.

You’re welcome to disagree but I think homophobia is probably a bigger problem than someone making fun of you for being Welsh.

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Okay I hear you....so chanting we can see you holding hands to the Brighton fans is excluding them from modern life or is it just having a bit of fun with them because Brighton prides itself on its gay community?

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Originally Posted by Whisperer

Okay I hear you....so chanting we can see you holding hands to the Brighton fans is excluding them from modern life or is it just having a bit of fun with them because Brighton prides itself on its gay community?

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I mean that’s on the soft side of it and if that was in isolation and the only bit of homophobia ever heard or faced it probably wouldn’t be a problem would it?

Also is it me that thought it was funny the first time they heard it 20 years ago but now think it’s been run into the ground? I’m always shocked that there are still people laughing their heads off at it .

[QUOTE=surge;5137574]Being Welsh and being from the LGBT+ community is not the same, I hoped I had made that clear in my last sentence by saying a person who is potentially hurt by this word can't chose not to be LGBT+ whereas one can chose not to be Welsh, and accept my middle section within that paragraph has stepped in another direction.


That's an interesting concept.
i have this vision of someone filling in an application form. Place of birth: Town/county : Aberdare, surrey. :hehe:

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I mean that’s on the soft side of it and if that was in isolation and the only bit of homophobia ever heard or faced it probably wouldn’t be a problem would it?

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You may say it's soft but there were threats to throw people out of the ground who chants it....and I do still think it's quite funny much the same as our kev McNaughton song always brings a smile to my face.

If its upset Laurence Fox then great. Hope they edit a few more.

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Originally Posted by Whisperer

You may say it's soft but there were threats to throw people out of the ground who chants it....and I do still think it's quite funny much the same as our kev McNaughton song always brings a smile to my face.

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Many years ago I worked with a Brighton fan who just so happened to walk on the other side of the street and he thought it was funny with no malice intended.

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Originally Posted by Feedback

Many years ago I worked with a Brighton fan who just so happened to walk on the other side of the street and he thought it was funny with no malice intended.

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You shouldn't be singing songs at him in the office though, really.

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Originally Posted by Feedback

As I said, the triggered generation are easily offended. Its a word, and it only has the meaning you decide to give it.

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“triggered generation” :hehe:

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Originally Posted by celticknight

If you drew a Venn Diagram of "people getting offended at what Radio 1 has done" and "people who are completely oblivious to the concept of radio edits" you'd have a circle.

Absolute weapons. Like that Daily Fail columnist who said they'd censor this but still play that "wet-assed pussy" song. They censor that too, you muppet.

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Even on Apple Music radio that is censored. I was listening to Capital the other day and they censored ‘codeine got me tripping’ in the song Lemonade. A few years ago, Big Sean’s song ‘I don’t **** with you’ was censored and that basically blanked the whole song as it was repetitive and he was rapping “****” and “bitch” a lot

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Originally Posted by Feedback

Many years ago I worked with a Brighton fan who just so happened to walk on the other side of the street and he thought it was funny with no malice intended.

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It's funny how you always manage to remember someone who was able to hand-wave or justify whatever is being discussed.

"Oh, we used to have a black guy work with us! "Darkie" we all called him, he never told us to stop so it couldn't have been racist!"

You worked with 1 student, so everyone under a certain age is as "precious" as her. You remember 1 Brighton fan who apparently spoke on behalf of all Brighton fans. You remember 1 client who called his wife "half-caste" (a term the Oxford Dictionary calls "offensive") but because she never stopped her husband from using it every mixed race person in the entire world is now comfortable with you using that term.

I'll call you a c*nt then. I called someone a c*nt before and he laughed, so that means I can call everyone big ol' c*nty c*nt too then. And no one is allowed to tell me otherwise. And that word should be taken off the swear filter, cos 1 person laughed at it so it's not offensive.