This Eu vaccine row

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Been showing thier real colours recently :


COVID-19: EU vaccine rollout has been a mess - and AstraZeneca row adds another layer of tension

The bloc's rollout has been sluggish to authorise, haphazard in distributing doses and well behind the UK, writes Adam Parsons

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

And one of the reasons we are probably better off out in the long run is just becasuse they insist on one rule for all but then the likes og Germany who have the clout to do so, and particularly France who don't give a shit about anyone but France, ignore the rules and do their own thing when it suits them.

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No.
That can’t be true surely??

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

No.
That can’t be true surely??

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I know, it's a shocking thing to say isn't it?

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

What about Tony Benn and Dennis Skinner????

**** the EU, it boils my piss that certain people cannot see that the EU is anti left wing in sooooo many ways.

It’s an unelected cabal.
Absolute shitbags, and typified in how they are behaving in the biggest crisis in 60 years.

It also amazes me how vindictive people can be.
I swear that most fervent remainers would rather be proved right than The UK becoming a better place.

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A letter from America from Alistair Cook

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Been showing thier real colours recently :


COVID-19: EU vaccine rollout has been a mess - and AstraZeneca row adds another layer of tension

The bloc's rollout has been sluggish to authorise, haphazard in distributing doses and well behind the UK, writes Adam Parsons

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

I know, it's a shocking thing to say isn't it?

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I’m not buying it.
The EU is a shining light that promotes equality for all of it’s citizens.
⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

A letter from America from Alistair Cook

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Would you post the same response to NYC Blue’s contributions?
Probably not because his thoughts on many things fall inline with yours.

Hypocrisy is so ugly!

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

And one of the reasons we are probably better off out in the long run is just becasuse they insist on one rule for all but then the likes og Germany who have the clout to do so, and particularly France who don't give a shit about anyone but France, ignore the rules and do their own thing when it suits them.

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The French don't give a shit about anyone but France

But us Brits ? ..........looking after number one by leaving Europe?

Mmmmm

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

Would you post the same response to NYC Blue’s contributions?
Probably not because his thoughts on many things fall inline with yours.

Hypocrisy is so ugly!

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You are living in America and seem to be , on the evidence of recent activity , a libertarian in many of your views .

Boris Johnson and his crew are libertarians , not to be confused with Liberal of course

Your attack on the EU is an example of this

I am of course going to take the piss in a light hearted way of someone who has Adam Smith type views on how those of us who are living over here should be

The country voted to leave Europe, in my opinion a staggeringly stupid decision but that decision is now being put into practice . But basically close on half the electorate who voted were against us leaving .

The signs of problems are already there , trade is sliding away , the future is uncertain and economists will always disagree but the vast majority of economic forecasters and analysts are trending that the decision to leave what you call a cabal is going to be a bad one for the future of this country . I used to follow the work of capital economics who are generally regarded as one of the most accurate analysts of economic growth , trending and what they said was not happy reading .

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

The French don't give a shit about anyone but France

But us Brits ? ..........looking after number one by leaving Europe?

Mmmmm

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We spent years tlling them the way they operate is wrontg and when they didn't listen we left the club. That is far more honest than a country staying in and either manipulating or blatantly ignoring the club rules to suit it's own national interests like France has done for years with things like CAP.

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

I’m not buying it.
The EU is a shining light that promotes equality for all of it’s citizens.
⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️

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America on the other hand

Land of the free .......home of the slave

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

We spent years tlling them the way they operate is wrontg and when they didn't listen we left the club. That is far more honest than a country staying in and either manipulating or blatantly ignoring the club rules to suit it's own national interests like France has done for years with things like CAP.

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I think that's stretching things . I mean the anti European wing of the tory party ? Honest ?

I can't buy that

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I think that's stretching things . I mean the anti European wing of the tory party ? Honest ?

I can't buy that

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Sadly it isn't stetching things at all.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Been showing thier real colours recently :


COVID-19: EU vaccine rollout has been a mess - and AstraZeneca row adds another layer of tension

The bloc's rollout has been sluggish to authorise, haphazard in distributing doses and well behind the UK, writes Adam Parsons

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

You are living in America and seem to be , on the evidence of recent activity , a libertarian in many of your views .

Boris Johnson and his crew are libertarians , not to be confused with Liberal of course

Your attack on the EU is an example of this

I am of course going to take the piss in a light hearted way of someone who has Adam Smith type views on how those of us who are living over here should be

The country voted to leave Europe, in my opinion a staggeringly stupid decision but that decision is now being put into practice . But basically close on half the electorate who voted were against us leaving .

The signs of problems are already there , trade is sliding away , the future is uncertain and economists will always disagree but the vast majority of economic forecasters and analysts are trending that the decision to leave what you call a cabal is going to be a bad one for the future of this country . I used to follow the work of capital economics who are generally regarded as one of the most accurate analysts of economic growth , trending and what they said was not happy reading .

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You never answered my question, but instead decided to go ad-hominem which frankly sums up a lot of the problems we have nowadays in discourse.

Again, on a previous post you failed to acknowledge Dennis Skinner and Tony Benin’s views and decided to raise the fact that I live in the US obviously discounting the fact that I spent the majority of my life in the UK, want to move back, think about my family and friends and deeply care about the country.

I’ve also noticed the use of the term “libertarian” a lot from you recently.

I don’t think I am one. But what’s another ad-hominem accusation if it can get you out of a dressing points made?

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

You never answered my question, but instead decided to go ad-hominem which frankly sums up a lot of the problems we have nowadays in discourse.

Again, on a previous post you failed to acknowledge Dennis Skinner and Tony Benin’s views and decided to raise the fact that I live in the US obviously discounting the fact that I spent the majority of my life in the UK, want to move back, think about my family and friends and deeply care about the country.

I’ve also noticed the use of the term “libertarian” a lot from you recently.

I don’t think I am one. But what’s another ad-hominem accusation if it can get you out of a dressing points made?

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Well you live in the United States which clearly doesn't look after all its citizens on the back of a dig that the European is guilty of something similar

I definitely think you are a libertarian

Tony Benn and Dennis Skinner are a good laugh but are not taken seriously

But the decision of this country to leave the EU is very serious

If you are looking to move back I wish you well but I think the country is going to be in a piss hole

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Been showing thier real colours recently :


COVID-19: EU vaccine rollout has been a mess - and AstraZeneca row adds another layer of tension

The bloc's rollout has been sluggish to authorise, haphazard in distributing doses and well behind the UK, writes Adam Parsons

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Well you live in the United States which clearly doesn't look after all its citizens on the back of a dig that the European is guilty of something similar

I definitely think you are a libertarian

Tony Benn and Dennis Skinner are a good laugh but are not taken seriously

But the decision of this country to leave the EU is very serious

If you are looking to move back I wish you well but I think the country is going to be in a piss hole

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For One: It shouldn’t be a comparison.
The US isn’t what was being discussed.

For Two: I don’t think you really understand what a Libertarian is.
I don’t identify myself as a libertarian or with any steadfast ideology for that matter.

For Three: How on earth can you call yourself a Labour Man and call Tony Benn “A good laugh and not to be taken seriously”?

My beliefs sit comfortably alongside those of Paul Embery.
He thinks that the modern left hate “The Working Class” and I agree with him.

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

For One: It shouldn’t be a comparison.
The US isn’t what was being discussed.

For Two: I don’t think you really understand what a Libertarian is.
I don’t identify myself as a libertarian or with any steadfast ideology for that matter.

For Three: How on earth can you call yourself a Labour Man and call Tony Benn “A good laugh and not to be taken seriously”?

My beliefs sit comfortably alongside those of Paul Embery.
He thinks that the modern left hate “The Working Class” and I agree with him.

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if you are going to say sarcastically that the European Union takes care of all its citizens then I think its a bit of a cheek coming from someone who lives in the country which says its the land of the free and promotes justice and equality for all ......unless you are black and gives people the right to walk into shops and buy guns . If the EU isn't looking after its citizens then the good old u s of a is a fecking disaster

You have laid into Europe, I am pointing out that the USA which has loads of different state laws is a single market just like the EU you hate so much

I know exactly what a libertarian is , they can come from the right and the left you come from the right judging by your posts on Europe. Thatcher was a libertarian as is that idiot Boris Johnson.

Most people of a left leaning with half a brain realise that Tony Benn , Skinner and Corbyn are a good laugh to listen to but completely lost and often full of hot air .

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

For One: It shouldn’t be a comparison.
The US isn’t what was being discussed.

For Two: I don’t think you really understand what a Libertarian is.
I don’t identify myself as a libertarian or with any steadfast ideology for that matter.

For Three: How on earth can you call yourself a Labour Man and call Tony Benn “A good laugh and not to be taken seriously”?

My beliefs sit comfortably alongside those of Paul Embery.
He thinks that the modern left hate “The Working Class” and I agree with him.

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I think Embery's view are fairly spot , isn't he an ex union official and feels Labour has lost touch and neglected its traditional voters, it seems they have moved away from the old fashion working class and become a middle-class cosmpoltian party which now seeks urban city voters .

Looking at the last few elections his views maybe right

I read somewhere that the Tory party now attract as many working class voters , perhaps that was borne out by the so called collapse of the Northern Red Wall, and losing Scotland another working class stronghold ,it appears lost to them ??

Perhaps their tactics have been badly thought through over the years , or has their in-fighting since Blair consumed and destroyed them , who knows , all I do know, something went wrong 🤔

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Originally Posted by life on mars

I think Embery's view are fairly spot , isn't he an ex union official and feels Labour has lost touch and neglected its traditional voters, it seems they have moved away from the old fashion working class and become a middle-class cosmpoltian party which now seeks urban city voters .

Looking at the last few elections his views maybe right

I read somewhere that the Tory party now attract as many working class voters , perhaps that was borne out by the so called collapse of the Northern Red Wall, and losing Scotland another working class stronghold ,it appears lost to them ??

Perhaps their tactics have been badly thought through over the years , or has their in-fighting since Blair consumed and destroyed them , who knows , all I do know, something went wrong 🤔

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People of a working class background can have Conservative values and people who are very wealthy and privately schooled can have socialist values .

Labour have portrayed themselves as the party of the working man but some of the people I know , but are not an associate of , are working class, vote Labour and are racist and far more racist than Conservative people I know . I think the labour party are done and the centre and left of British politics need to unite and form a new party as this country is lurching to the right and it will only get worse .

The fella from the fire brigades Union is anti European so clearly Mr Washington agrees with him although I hope he doesn't agree with his views on sexuality

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

if you are going to say sarcastically that the European Union takes care of all its citizens then I think its a bit of a cheek coming from someone who lives in the country which says its the land of the free and promotes justice and equality for all ......unless you are black and gives people the right to walk into shops and buy guns . If the EU isn't looking after its citizens then the good old u s of a is a fecking disaster

You have laid into Europe, I am pointing out that the USA which has loads of different state laws is a single market just like the EU you hate so much

I know exactly what a libertarian is , they can come from the right and the left you come from the right judging by your posts on Europe. Thatcher was a libertarian as is that idiot Boris Johnson.

Most people of a left leaning with half a brain realise that Tony Benn , Skinner and Corbyn are a good laugh to listen to but completely lost and often full of hot air .

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You’ve offered nothing but accusations.
I’ve no desire to give you a “Wood Shedding” so will leave this be.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Been showing thier real colours recently :


COVID-19: EU vaccine rollout has been a mess - and AstraZeneca row adds another layer of tension

The bloc's rollout has been sluggish to authorise, haphazard in distributing doses and well behind the UK, writes Adam Parsons

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

The fella from the fire brigades Union is anti European so clearly Mr Washington agrees with him although I hope he doesn't agree with his views on sexuality

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I’m not familiar with his views on sexuality.
If they are homophobic, my views no longer sit comfortably with his.
I’d be surprised and disappointed if they were.

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

You’ve offered nothing but accusations.
I’ve no desire to give you a “Wood Shedding” so will leave this be.

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You on this thread have described the EU as a cabal and are clearly anti Europe. Unless you didn't actually type what was typed . You said the EU boils your piss and doesn't care for its citizens yet you live in the USA where not looking after huge sections of society is the norm . The fella you quote isn't as free thinking on certain issues as you may believe .

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Then again, they could not!
They haven't said it is unsafe they are only questioning the level of efficacy, so in a few months time when their over 65s are dying for lavck of any vaccine at all lets see what their people think.
But of course if it really concerns you just make sure none of your family over 65 gets the vaccine in question.

And why would we not be able to get the other vaccines?

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(just in case somebody else is interested in bringing this back to the vaccination issue) - Yes, the Germans are saying its efficacy is unproven for over 65s. This is because most testing was done on younger people, partly due to the hope that they'd be more resilient to any possible vaccine side-effects. There isn't much data for over 65s as they were deliberately not targeted in the trials. However, there is no evidence to say that the efficacy is very much different in the over 65s. It would not be surprising if it'd be lower as older people (ahem , me) typically do not produce as many antibodies as a younger person after vaccination.
AZ claim that their limited results suggest that the vaccine is effective for over 65s (they do not claim any more as I guess that the sample size is probably too small to be statistically significant).
However, you could see who was being hospitalised due to COVID. Those people were used to determine which parts of the population were most vulnerable and most likely to take up beds. This was at least partly how it was decided who should be vaccinated during the first round(s) of vaccination (I don't know how these hospital figures have changed with the new variants).

As there's nothing to suggest that it doesn't work for over 65's, it does seem like a bit of a political call. If they do want to stop it, logically, they should now target the most vulnerable groups under 65.

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Originally Posted by bigjoe

(just in case somebody else is interested in bringing this back to the vaccination issue) - Yes, the Germans are saying its efficacy is unproven for over 65s. This is because most testing was done on younger people, partly due to the hope that they'd be more resilient to any possible vaccine side-effects. There isn't much data for over 65s as they were deliberately not targeted in the trials. However, there is no evidence to say that the efficacy is very much different in the over 65s. It would not be surprising if it'd be lower as older people (ahem , me) typically do not produce as many antibodies as a younger person after vaccination.
AZ claim that their limited results suggest that the vaccine is effective for over 65s (they do not claim any more as I guess that the sample size is probably too small to be statistically significant).
However, you could see who was being hospitalised due to COVID. Those people were used to determine which parts of the population were most vulnerable and most likely to take up beds. This was at least partly how it was decided who should be vaccinated during the first round(s) of vaccination (I don't know how these hospital figures have changed with the new variants).

As there's nothing to suggest that it doesn't work for over 65's, it does seem like a bit of a political call. If they do want to stop it, logically, they should now target the most vulnerable groups under 65.

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Good post, but I’m afraid I have to bring politics into it again with regard to the use of the word “libertarian” because it seems to me that it is at the heart of the different emphasis’ that we’re getting from the UK and Germany regarding the AZ vaccine. I’m no expert, but it looks like the UK Government, with its libertarian instincts at PM and Cabinet levels, has, for want of better term, been prepared to allow and encouraged the licensing authorities to take a bit of a punt on the vaccines efficacy in over 65s whereas the Germans are being more cautious.

Different conclusions are being drawn from the same information and, for myself as someone who is sixty five a week today, I’m pretty content to accept that if the data says that the vaccine is generally effective against under 65s, then it’s hardly as if it’s going to be a waste of time for those older than that.

However, let’s face it, the UK Government’s instincts have generally been a bit of a disaster when it comes to the virus haven’t they. Libertarianism can be a good thing in many cases, but the figures for countries such as the USA, Brazil, Sweden and the UK suggest that a pandemic is not a situation where regulation should be eased, so there is a nagging suspicion that the UK Government’s laissez faire attitude could again be costing the country dear - in this case when it comes to AZ vaccine and over sixty fives.

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

That doesn’t mean shit to some people who have an inflexible narrative.
“Post Brexit Britain must fail at all costs”

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I think the narrative here is wrong about remainers loving the EU at all costs. People voted to remain in the EU because they thought remaining in a large trading block and allowing freedom of movement was a good thing for the U.K.

It doesn’t mean they don’t think the EU as an organisation needs a big change and isn’t a bunch of *****.

It’s just we did quite a good job of changing them from the inside whereas now we have no say in a trading bloc that has a huge effect on our economy.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I think the narrative here is wrong about remainers loving the EU at all costs. People voted to remain in the EU because they thought remaining in a large trading block and allowing freedom of movement was a good thing for the U.K.

It doesn’t mean they don’t think the EU as an organisation needs a big change and isn’t a bunch of *****.

It’s just we did quite a good job of changing them from the inside whereas now we have no say in a trading bloc that has a huge effect on our economy.

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for the real explanation of why UK should be in the EU listen to Sir Humphrey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVYqB0uTKlE&t=2s

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Originally Posted by B. Oddie

Yes, you're missing the fact that the EU are not getting something they've paid for fairly and squarely.

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Don't think you could have read my post properly

I'm not denying that the EU are due something that they have paid, or will pay for.

I am saying that they cannot expect this to be fulfilled at the expense of the UK not getting something that we have (in your words) paid for fairly and squarely when our contract was signed three months earlier

Their argument is with Astra Zeneca and as has been pointed out elsewhere in this thread the terms of the contract may allow for the delay (they will still get their vaccines) as long as Astra Zeneca have made their best efforts to fulfil the contract in time.

The devil is in the detail and of course Astra Zeneca will have to convince the EU that they have done their best.

Perhaps if the EU hadn't messed about, signed a contract a few months earlier and given Astra Zeneca more time to organise a complex production set up they wouldn't be in this situation.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I think the narrative here is wrong about remainers loving the EU at all costs. People voted to remain in the EU because they thought remaining in a large trading block and allowing freedom of movement was a good thing for the U.K.

It doesn’t mean they don’t think the EU as an organisation needs a big change and isn’t a bunch of *****.

It’s just we did quite a good job of changing them from the inside whereas now we have no say in a trading bloc that has a huge effect on our economy.

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There were a lot of different reasons for people to vote Remain. The ones you have put forward about collective weight as a trading bloc and freedom of movement were major ones for a lot of people. But the reason that the Dennis Skinner view had shrunk so much in the labour and trade union movement (certainly compared to the dominant anti-EEC view in the 1970s when it was seen as 'the bosses club') is that the EU in 2016 was seen as the champion and guarantor of employment rights and environmental standards - and as generally progressive. Some of that was myth - much like most of the Brexit arguments - but the TUC and most affiliated unions were persuaded. They also accepted the 'stronger together' pitch, and the need for Europe to hold its own against the USA, China etc. No-one I knew who voted Remain did so without wanting major EU reform

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Originally Posted by jon1959

There were a lot of different reasons for people to vote Remain. The ones you have put forward about collective weight as a trading bloc and freedom of movement were major ones for a lot of people. But the reason that the Dennis Skinner view had shrunk so much in the labour and trade union movement (certainly compared to the dominant anti-EEC view in the 1970s when it was seen as 'the bosses club') is that the EU in 2016 was seen as the champion and guarantor of employment rights and environmental standards - and as generally progressive. Some of that was myth - much like most of the Brexit arguments - but the TUC and most affiliated unions were persuaded. They also accepted the 'stronger together' pitch, and the need for Europe to hold its own against the USA, China etc. No-one I knew who voted Remain did so without wanting major EU reform

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Thanks for that. :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by jon1959

There were a lot of different reasons for people to vote Remain. The ones you have put forward about collective weight as a trading bloc and freedom of movement were major ones for a lot of people. But the reason that the Dennis Skinner view had shrunk so much in the labour and trade union movement (certainly compared to the dominant anti-EEC view in the 1970s when it was seen as 'the bosses club') is that the EU in 2016 was seen as the champion and guarantor of employment rights and environmental standards - and as generally progressive. Some of that was myth - much like most of the Brexit arguments - but the TUC and most affiliated unions were persuaded. They also accepted the 'stronger together' pitch, and the need for Europe to hold its own against the USA, China etc. No-one I knew who voted Remain did so without wanting major EU reform

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And my friends also , even those who are left wing tories knew things had to change

But Boris and his mob have been stoking up the fires for years with the likes of Peter Bone on the back benches rallying the troops

I enjoyed listening to Skinner, it was great seeing him stick it to the tories but Benn loved being on Question Time a bit too much for me .

One by product of this thread is that the Tories on here really need to update their Labour bogymen - Benn and Skinner? One of them has been dead for seven years and the other one will be eighty nine in less than a fortnight! With Corbyn looking like yesterday's man and Livingston no longer a member of the party I believe, who are the Tories going to terrify their children and grand children with stories about what will happen if Labour ever regain power from now on?

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

One by product of this thread is that the Tories on here really need to update their Labour bogymen - Benn and Skinner? One of them has been dead for seven years and the other one will be eighty nine in less than a fortnight! With Corbyn looking like yesterday's man and Livingston no longer a member of the party I believe, who are the Tories going to terrify their children and grand children with stories about what will happen if Labour ever regain power from now on?

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I had the utmost admiration for Tony Benn and am also fond of Dennis Skinner.
Far from Bogey Men to me.
Corbyn on the other hand...

I want to see a strong Labour Party that reconnects with its working class voters.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

One by product of this thread is that the Tories on here really need to update their Labour bogymen - Benn and Skinner? One of them has been dead for seven years and the other one will be eighty nine in less than a fortnight! With Corbyn looking like yesterday's man and Livingston no longer a member of the party I believe, who are the Tories going to terrify their children and grand children with stories about what will happen if Labour ever regain power from now on?

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Scare their chidren with :hehe: Stop being so melodramatic!!

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Scare their chidren with :hehe: Stop being so melodramatic!!

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I wonder if he was being 100% serious

Bloody hell UK vaccinetastic

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I wonder if he was being 100% serious

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He clearyl wasn't but even so....... :hehe:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

One by product of this thread is that the Tories on here really need to update their Labour bogymen - Benn and Skinner? One of them has been dead for seven years and the other one will be eighty nine in less than a fortnight! With Corbyn looking like yesterday's man and Livingston no longer a member of the party I believe, who are the Tories going to terrify their children and grand children with stories about what will happen if Labour ever regain power from now on?

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Doesn't that work both ways with the Labour devotes and their labels with their bad witches that were Thatcher and now Patel or as some call her bad coconut , and the fat ,red faced gammon , boggy men. ??

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Doesn't that work both ways with the Labour devotes and their labels with their bad witches that were Thatcher and now Patel or as some call her bad coconut , and the fat ,red faced gammon , boggy men. ??

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I don’t count Wash DC Blue in this because it appears I may have misjudged him, but the reaction my post got is so predictable in that two of the leading few candidates I had in my mind to reply to it did so n a manner which didn’t surprise me.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I don’t count Wash DC Blue in this because it appears I may have misjudged him, but the reaction my post got is so predictable in that two of the leading few candidates I had in my mind to reply to it did so n a manner which didn’t surprise me.

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Only one problem with that. Other than Wash DC blue I was the only person who replied unless you mean the person you were replying to, in which case why not say so? And I replied only to laugh at your kid comment.
So who is the invisible man? :hehe:

You’re really hard work, I meant you and LOM - LOM never misses a chance to knock Labour and, although you get all indignant when people call you a Tory, you don’t half do a good impersonation of one on here if you aren’t one.

Also, that’s the second time in a week I’ve whooshed you - you don’t know me as well as you think you do because you appear to think everything I post on here is meant to be deadly serious.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

One by product of this thread is that the Tories on here really need to update their Labour bogymen - Benn and Skinner? One of them has been dead for seven years and the other one will be eighty nine in less than a fortnight! With Corbyn looking like yesterday's man and Livingston no longer a member of the party I believe, who are the Tories going to terrify their children and grand children with stories about what will happen if Labour ever regain power from now on?

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They need to get a party together first, as do the Liberals.....I like the libs, swing down the middle and pinch the best bits of the other two twats.....:hehe:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

You’re really hard work, I meant you and LOM - LOM never misses a chance to knock Labour and, although you get all indignant when people call you a Tory, you don’t half do a good impersonation of one on here if you aren’t one.

Also, that’s the second time in a week I’ve whooshed you - you don’t know me as well as you think you do because you appear to think everything I post on here is meant to be deadly serious.

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I don't know you at all. As for being totally tory I was referred by someone on here the other day as Gethin. That's not very tory is it?
what I dislike is certain people who will attackanything which the Westminster governemtn says without even considering it, just because it is tory.
I've never been a political animal but the level of bile and unthinking prejudice I see here astounds me, honestly!