Joniesta (Jonny Williams - CONFIRMED)

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31-01-21, 13:54
Heisenberg

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by surge

And that's why I'm not saying we should get excited: there are probably other players who can fit the criteria as well if not better. But I can see at least "a single positive in" this potential signing so am still more positive than negative.

This is going nowhere.
31-01-21, 13:57
J R Hartley

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I’m not saying it’s a good signing but judging a player by stats doesn’t always tell the full story.

I’m not saying judge on stats alone but they are a bloody good indicator when someone’s stats are so poor.

If this guy wasn’t a Welsh international we would be asking why the **** are we signing a bit part player from Charlton.

At least with Ng he was captain of Crewe and their player of the year. Watters strike rate this season is phenomenal but could be another Eoin Doyle rather than Jamie Vardy, who knows, but at least you can see the clubs thinking.

Jonny Williams, I’m sorry, if he didn’t have the Joniesta nickname and we weren’t familiar with him in Wales we would rightly be asking what the ****ing hell are the club playing at??
31-01-21, 13:59
Pedro de la Rosa

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy

Apparently, Barnsley are hopeful of keeping him in this transfer window, but even if they don't sell him, he can sign a pre-contract agreement with other clubs because he's over 23 and his existing deal runs out in less than 6 months.

I don't think English and Welsh clubs can do this between other English and Welsh clubs.
31-01-21, 13:59
LeningradCowboy

Re: Joniesta

The people who think this is a good idea probably wanted us to sign Joe Ledley when Charlton released him last January.
31-01-21, 14:00
cardiff55

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy

Apparently, Barnsley are hopeful of keeping him in this transfer window, but even if they don't sell him, he can sign a pre-contract agreement with other clubs because he's over 23 and his existing deal runs out in less than 6 months.

I think they can only sign pre contract agreements with overseas teams 6 months before hand. I know the FA only let PCAs between Premier League teams 1 month before the contract ends. It's a bit vague though and I may well be wrong so don't shoot me. So Joe Bennet could sing contract with Real Madrid(!!) but not Bristol City (this comment will be on the board soon as insider info!!)
31-01-21, 14:03
Croesy Blue

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by J R Hartley

I’m not saying judge on stats alone but they are a bloody good indicator when someone’s stats are so poor.

If this guy wasn’t a Welsh international we would be asking why the **** are we signing a bit part player from Charlton.

At least with Ng he was captain of Crewe and their player of the year. Watters strike rate this season is phenomenal but could be another Eoin Doyle rather than Jamie Vardy, who knows, but at least you can see the clubs thinking.

Jonny Williams, I’m sorry, if he didn’t have the Joniesta nickname and we weren’t familiar with him in Wales we would rightly be asking what the ****ing hell are the club playing at??

I completely agree, if he wasn’t Welsh it wouldn’t be being defended at all.
31-01-21, 14:04
surge

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy

The people who think this is a good idea probably wanted us to sign Joe Ledley when Charlton released him last January.

He'd probably fit two out of my five criteria. I would be more negative than positive about that one.

The three alternative names you've mentioned would be seen as a CM though. Do you think Jonny Williams is being brought here to play CM?
31-01-21, 14:11
surge

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heisenberg

The one criteria for any signing that they need to meet is:
i) improves our squad

He doesn't. He isn't even first choice at Charlton in League One.

Like I said, Graham Kavanagh meets 3 of your 5 criteria. Having read them again, he actually meets 4 as he would be a great influence on younger players.

Unfortunately his legs have gone so wouldn't be a good signing for us now.

This is the problem with your criteria... Thousands of players would meet a lot of the criteria but they would still not be good signings as they are not good enough to play for us.

The different between a good signing and a quality signing would be found here.

We had a thread about Arter the other day who would maybe fit just one of the criteria points. More negative than positive about that one.

Is Arter a better player than Ledley? Yes, but both not on the list of players I'd be willing to look at.
31-01-21, 14:28
Heisenberg

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by surge

The different between a good signing and a quality signing would be found here.

We had a thread about Arter the other day who would maybe fit just one of the criteria points. More negative than positive about that one.

Is Arter a better player than Ledley? Yes, but both not on the list of players I'd be willing to look at.

I honestly think you're trying to hard to justify your position on Jonny Williams.

Give the criteria thing a rest as it's baseless unless the players that meet most of the criteria are any good.

Basically, because he's affordable, is an attacking midfielder and under the age of 30 means your "positive" about the potential of him joining us.

Not incredibly injury prone, not struggling in League One and didn't look poor when he was in the Championship aren't on your criteria for some reason.

If all it takes is being under 30, plays as an attacking midfielder and would cost £200k is all that it takes for you to be positive then there's no point in debating any further.

I find it quite a stubborn and ridiculous viewpoint that wouldn't have been a debating point if Williams had chosen to represent England instead of Wales.
31-01-21, 14:53
J R Hartley

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heisenberg

I honestly think you're trying to hard to justify your position on Jonny Williams.

Give the criteria thing a rest as it's baseless unless the players that meet most of the criteria are any good.

Basically, because he's affordable, is an attacking midfielder and under the age of 30 means your "positive" about the potential of him joining us.

Not incredibly injury prone, not struggling in League One and didn't look poor when he was in the Championship aren't on your criteria for some reason.

If all it takes is being under 30, plays as an attacking midfielder and would cost £200k is all that it takes for you to be positive then there's no point in debating any further.

I find it quite a stubborn and ridiculous viewpoint that wouldn't have been a debating point if Williams had chosen to represent England instead of Wales.

I think its more about justifying his own transfer policy criteria hes made up.

Id like to think the club take a few more things into consideration than a five bullet point list scribbled down quickly on the back of a fag packet. Then again.....
31-01-21, 14:56
A Quiet Monkfish

Re: Joniesta

McCarthy was appointed 8 days ago. With a squad to assess and 2 league games to prepare for, I doubt he's had the time to identify new players as he would like. Williams offers something different. He's full of running, will give 100% and is in all probability just here to try and keep City in the Championship.
31-01-21, 14:57
J R Hartley

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuerto

If Williams does come, then it's a massive reflection on how bad things have become, and it shows the huge limitations in our midfield, horrendous recruitment by Warnock and to a much lesser degree, Harris. The three we have in there at the moment are pretty damn awful. None of them can carry the ball, go past a player or play a pass and follow it. It comes to something when we're touting an injury prone bit part player without an ounce of form in his bin in order to solve a short term problem. If i was one of Vaulks, Ralls or Bacuna, i'd be struggling to look in the mirror this morning after hearing that bit of speculation. If we do sign Williams then it's indicative of how bad and desperate the whole thing has become-depressing really. I'm at the point where i can't stomach watching our midfield three.

its a clear bloody indicator we are going back to Neil Warnock type signings, which wouldnt be a surprise considering weve employed Mick McCarthy. It wouldnt be so ridiculous if we hadnt held a fans meeting only last week to explain we were going down a different route in the transfer market.
31-01-21, 14:58
the other bob wilson

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I completely agree, if he wasn’t Welsh it wouldn’t be being defended at all.

When do most of us see Jonny Williams play these days? When he’s playing for Wales. Does he look completely out of his depth when he plays for his country? Individual opinions here of course, but I don’t think he does. With the Euros coming up and Williams’ place in the squad for the Finals by no means assured, would he be motivated to come to a Welsh club and play under a manager who, clearly, rates him - would it give him a better chance of making the squad than if he stayed at Charlton? You’d like to think he’d be up for coming here to prove himself at a higher level thereby increasing his chances of playing in the Euros, so I would say that the fact he is Welsh is an important consideration this time.

Looking at his situation at Charlton, Williams may have a manager who doesn’t rate him much, but, based on what I see when he plays for Wales, he should not be struggling for his place in a League One team, so you have to wonder about things like consistency to go alongside the clear question marks about his injury record. However, if he is fit currently, at that price and age (it’s hard to say with injuries but the fact he hasn’t played as much as your average twenty seven year old May mean that he’s got quite a few years left in him yet), he could be a bargain if he plays like he can - it’s all down to whether McCarthy can get him playing for us like he often does for Wales.
31-01-21, 14:58
J R Hartley

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

McCarthy was appointed 8 days ago. With a squad to assess and 2 league games to prepare for, I doubt he's had the time to identify new players as he would like. Williams offers something different. He's full of running, will give 100% and is in all probability just here to try and keep City in the Championship.

Well lets hope his luck changes because he keeps getting relegated from this division.
31-01-21, 15:01
J R Hartley

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

When do most of us see Jonny Williams play these days? When he’s playing for Wales. Does he look completely out of his depth when he plays for his country? Individual opinions here of course, but I don’t think he does. With the Euros coming up and Williams’ place in the squad for the Finals by no means assured, would he be motivated to come to a Welsh club and play under a manager who, clearly, rates him - would it give him a better chance of making the squad than if he stayed at Charlton? You’d like to think he’d be up for coming here to prove himself at a higher level thereby increasing his chances of playing in the Euros, so I would say that the fact he is Welsh is an important consideration this time.

Looking at his situation at Charlton, Williams may have a manager who doesn’t rate him much, but, based on what I see when he plays for Wales, he should not be struggling for his place in a League One team, so you have to wonder about things like consistency to go alongside the clear question marks about his injury record. However, if he is fit currently, at that price and age (it’s hard to say with injuries but the fact he hasn’t played as much as your average twenty seven year old May mean that he’s got quite a few years left in him yet), he could be a bargain if he plays like he can - it’s all down to whether McCarthy can get him playing for us like he often does for Wales.

International football a few times a year where he might get a 20 minutes cameo if hes lucky is not comparable to the Championship, or League One for that matter, where the game is faster, more physical and youre playing Saturday, Wednesday, Saturday, Wednesday.

He is not fit enough to play twice a week. History will tell you that. Weve already got Tomlin, whos similar in the fact he cant play game after game and hes a far better footballer than Williams.
31-01-21, 15:14
dml1954

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heisenberg

I honestly think you're trying to hard to justify your position on Jonny Williams.

Give the criteria thing a rest as it's baseless unless the players that meet most of the criteria are any good.

Basically, because he's affordable, is an attacking midfielder and under the age of 30 means your "positive" about the potential of him joining us.

Not incredibly injury prone, not struggling in League One and didn't look poor when he was in the Championship aren't on your criteria for some reason.

If all it takes is being under 30, plays as an attacking midfielder and would cost £200k is all that it takes for you to be positive then there's no point in debating any further.

I find it quite a stubborn and ridiculous viewpoint that wouldn't have been a debating point if Williams had chosen to represent England instead of Wales.

Lets be honest, in your position as a devout critic of everything that Cardiff City does, you wouldn't be happy if we signed Messi or Mbappe.
31-01-21, 15:23
surge

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by J R Hartley

its a clear bloody indicator we are going back to Neil Warnock type signings, which wouldnt be a surprise considering weve employed Mick McCarthy. It wouldnt be so ridiculous if we hadnt held a fans meeting only last week to explain we were going down a different route in the transfer market.

But you've misunderstood. No one has said we're only signing younger players from now on but the aim of the squad is to be "ideally like a hybrid squad, with more experienced players still in situ to bring through exciting youngsters."

That means signing more younger players than older ones given who is already here, but if there is a player who fits a need on a good deal then why would we turn our noses up at it? From what I can tell in that Glen Williams article this would be just our second player over the age of 25 in our 9 most recent signings, and in window where we've also moved Cunningham on so we can bring Brown back.

Maybe I'm a bit bored of the negativity about everything (and overly pro-Jonny Williams) so will take a break now. I do think we should be able to be more nuanced in our analysis of potential transfers and dare I say supportive or our players though.
31-01-21, 15:26
the other bob wilson

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by J R Hartley

International football a few times a year where he might get a 20 minutes cameo if hes lucky is not comparable to the Championship, or League One for that matter, where the game is faster, more physical and youre playing Saturday, Wednesday, Saturday, Wednesday.

He is not fit enough to play twice a week. History will tell you that. Weve already got Tomlin, whos similar in the fact he cant play game after game and hes a far better footballer than Williams.

Williams starts fairly often for Wales and has been selected in front of the likes of Wilson and Lawrence. While I accept there are misgivings about his injury record, I think you’re making some assumptions about Williams’ current state of fitness.
31-01-21, 15:26
Pedro de la Rosa

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardiff55

I think they can only sign pre contract agreements with overseas teams 6 months before hand. I know the FA only let PCAs between Premier League teams 1 month before the contract ends. It's a bit vague though and I may well be wrong so don't shoot me. So Joe Bennet could sing contract with Real Madrid(!!) but not Bristol City (this comment will be on the board soon as insider info!!)

It’s absolutely amazing that both of us replied saying the same thing within a minute of each other to a message from hours ago! Talk about coincidence! I’m not accusing you of anything sinister here, just thinking about it, mad timing!
31-01-21, 15:32
LeningradCowboy

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Williams starts fairly often for Wales and has been selected in front of the likes of Wilson and Lawrence. While I accept there are misgivings about his injury record, I think you’re making some assumptions about Williams’ current state of fitness.

Do you know how many times he has played 90 minutes for Charlton this season?
31-01-21, 15:36
J R Hartley

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Williams starts fairly often for Wales and has been selected in front of the likes of Wilson and Lawrence. While I accept there are misgivings about his injury record, I think you’re making some assumptions about Williams’ current state of fitness.

Hes started 3 competitive games in the last 2 years for Wales. 4 if you count the friendly against England.
31-01-21, 15:41
J R Hartley

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by surge

But you've misunderstood. No one has said we're only signing younger players from now on but the aim of the squad is to be "ideally like a hybrid squad, with more experienced players still in situ to bring through exciting youngsters."

That means signing more younger players than older ones given who is already here, but if there is a player who fits a need on a good deal then why would we turn our noses up at it? From what I can tell in that Glen Williams article this would be just our second player over the age of 25 in our 9 most recent signings, and in window where we've also moved Cunningham on so we can bring Brown back.

Maybe I'm a bit bored of the negativity about everything (and overly pro-Jonny Williams) so will take a break now. I do think we should be able to be more nuanced in our analysis of potential transfers and dare I say supportive or our players though.

Weve got plenty of experienced players in the squad, we dont need Williams for his experience. Hes not that experienced anyway unless you mean experience of the treatment room. Hes started less than 100 games in his career and hes 28 this year. The most league appearances in one season is a massive 26. Its usually around the 10-20 mark. Why we think this guy can have a dramatic effect over the course of a 46 game championship season I do not know.
31-01-21, 15:43
the other bob wilson

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Hes started 3 competitive games in the last 2 years for Wales. 4 if you count the friendly against England.

But he’s started in front of players that there’s no way we could sign for £250k tomorrow and that’s an important point as far as I’m concerned - that sort of fee is nothing these days and it’s hardly as if he’s that old (to read some of the comments in this thread you’d think he was forty!).
31-01-21, 15:44
the other bob wilson

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy

Do you know how many times he has played 90 minutes for Charlton this season?

No, but I’m guessing around the same number as Tomlin did for us last season.
31-01-21, 15:50
Heisenberg

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by dml1954

Lets be honest, in your position as a devout critic of everything that Cardiff City does, you wouldn't be happy if we signed Messi or Mbappe.

Oh, hi dml. While I've got your attention, can you provide the source of your claim that Sheffield United paid more than a million pounds in loan fees for Madine?

Thanks.
31-01-21, 15:52
J R Hartley

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

But he’s started in front of players that there’s no way we could sign for £250k tomorrow and that’s an important point as far as I’m concerned - that sort of fee is nothing these days and it’s hardly as if he’s that old (to read some of the comments in this thread you’d think he was forty!).

So what Wilson has started in front of him too. Starting in front of someone 3 times in 2 years is hardly massive kudos at international level when we are talking about club level and a 46 game season.

To use your logic theres average league one players starting in front of him regularly for Charlton. Then it should beg the question why? If starting a game is so important to you Jonny Williams is the wrong man to be using, hes appeared in more professional games off the bench than the start.

250k is somone on 10k a week on a 6 month loan. Might be peanuts to you but when the club are saying weve got to get rid of people off the wagebill before we can add to the squad why are we wasting a wage on a crock who has never done anything in this division?
31-01-21, 15:54
Stanmore Bluebird

Re: Joniesta

I just think he is too injury prone. A fine player when fit, which isn’t gfrequent enough for a 46 game league season. If he joined City, I would add a caveat to the terms and conditions that whilst with CCFC he would not be allowed to play for Wales.
31-01-21, 15:56
J R Hartley

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

No, but I’m guessing around the same number as Tomlin did for us last season.

Shame he wasnt as productive as Tomlin in the minutes he does have on the pitch. Charlton might not have been relegated.
31-01-21, 15:57
LeningradCowboy

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

No, but I’m guessing around the same number as Tomlin did for us last season.

Once (in the first round of the FA Cup).

Tomlin played 90 minutes for us 12 times in the Championship last season.
31-01-21, 15:58
cardiff55

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

It’s absolutely amazing that both of us replied saying the same thing within a minute of each other to a message from hours ago! Talk about coincidence! I’m not accusing you of anything sinister here, just thinking about it, mad timing!

Pure coincidence, Your post wasn't up there when i was writing mine......honest! I was looking up the rules online.
31-01-21, 15:58
LeningradCowboy

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by J R Hartley

So what Wilson has started in front of him too. Starting in front of someone 3 times in 2 years is hardly massive kudos at international level when we are talking about club level and a 46 game season.

To use your logic theres average league one players starting in front of him regularly for Charlton. Then it should beg the question why? If starting a game is so important to you Jonny Williams is the wrong man to be using, hes appeared in more professional games off the bench than the start.

250k is somone on 10k a week on a 6 month loan. Might be peanuts to you but when the club are saying weve got to get rid of people off the wagebill before we can add to the squad why are we wasting a wage on a crock who has never done anything in this division?

bEcAuSe hE iS wElSh!!!
31-01-21, 15:59
LeningradCowboy

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardiff55

Pure coincidence, Your post wasn't up there when i was writing mine......honest! I was looking up the rules online.

I think you're correct, but I can't find it written down anywhere.
31-01-21, 16:00
J R Hartley

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy

Once (in the first round of the FA Cup).

Tomlin played 90 minutes for us 12 times in the Championship last season.

Yes, but is Tomlin Welsh?
31-01-21, 16:00
City123

Re: Joniesta

I don't think Williams will solve our problems but I also don't get this strange sneering attitude some have towards people who want more Welsh payers in the squad. Most fans of English clubs want more English players in their team so why is it any different for Cardiff fans to want more Welsh players?
31-01-21, 16:00
J R Hartley

Re: Joniesta

Jordan Rhodes in a swap deal with Murphy. It just goes from bad to worse.
31-01-21, 16:02
J R Hartley

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by City123

I don't think Williams will solve our problems but I also don't get this strange sneering attitude some have towards people who want more Welsh payers in the squad. Most fans of English clubs want more English players in their team so why is it any different for Cardiff fans to want more Welsh players?

Because weve only just got Jazz Richards off the books and this signing just smacks of another Jazz Richards. Injury prone league 1 player.
31-01-21, 16:07
LeningradCowboy

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by City123

I don't think Williams will solve our problems but I also don't get this strange sneering attitude some have towards people who want more Welsh payers in the squad. Most fans of English clubs want more English players in their team so why is it any different for Cardiff fans to want more Welsh players?

I don't want us to sign players who aren't good enough for the Championship just because they're Welsh.
31-01-21, 16:07
Heisenberg

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by City123

I don't think Williams will solve our problems but I also don't get this strange sneering attitude some have towards people who want more Welsh payers in the squad. Most fans of English clubs want more English players in their team so why is it any different for Cardiff fans to want more Welsh players?

Having Welsh players for the sake of it is what I don't agree with. I was happy with the Vaulks, Wilson and Moore signings but argued with those wanting us to sign Ledley and Gunter... And now Jonny Williams.

If we were linked with signing Neco Williams then that would be great... But wanting to sign Jonny Williams just because of the fact he's Welsh/chose to play for Wales makes no sense to me.

Is David Edwards still playing at Shrewsbury? There would be potentially some posters on here advocating us signing him because he's Welsh.
31-01-21, 16:08
Hilts

Re: Joniesta

Williams rocked up at Sunderland in their relegation season.

Sign league 1 quality players and dont be suprised when thats where you end up.

Crap signing hope its not true.
31-01-21, 16:10
LeningradCowboy

Re: Joniesta

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heisenberg

Having Welsh players for the sake of it is what I don't agree with. I was happy with the Vaulks, Wilson and Moore signings but argued with those wanting us to sign Ledley and Gunter... And now Jonny Williams.

If we were linked with signing Neco Williams then that would be great... But wanting to sign Jonny Williams just because of the fact he's Welsh/chose to play for Wales makes no sense to me.

Is David Edwards still playing at Shrewsbury? There would be potentially some posters on here advocating us signing him because he's Welsh.

hE cOuLd dO a jOb fOr uS.

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