Songs Of Praise

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Say that to his face, i dare you :hehe:

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Ha ha happily, if he exists he's a sadist and I'd rather burn in hell than worship him.

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

Why don't we.(.ie mankind) save starving children?

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Well, if the stupid fuuckers of this country stopped voting Tory.

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

Well, if the stupid fuuckers of this country stopped voting Tory.

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:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

Well, if the stupid fuuckers of this country stopped voting Tory.

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I thought in this country, Wales, people voted for Labour?

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

I thought in this country, Wales, people voted for Labour?

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The majority do but there’s still daft twats who vote Tory, mores the pity.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

If god is omnipotent and omnipresent he could stop it though.

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He gave us free choice and since then we've messed it up in many areas

Sickened on the news this evening that snippers in the Yemen have shot over 400 children...for what? Pleasure? Kids playing in the street have seen their brothers and sisters shot.

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Originally Posted by splott parker

The majority do but there’s still daft twats who vote Tory, mores the pity.

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Pleased to see you've got over the appendicitis and back with both barrels.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I mean I said god can’t even zap away diabetes lets you know how seriously I take it :hehe:

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I shared something with you about a friend of mine who devoted his short life to the church and you reply as if you are an insensitive pratt. Im sure you are a better person than that.

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

I thought in this country, Wales, people voted for Labour?

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There are different definitions of what is a country, of course. Wales and the UK can both be described as countries depending on which definition is applied.

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

I thought in this country, Wales, people voted for Labour?

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20 plus years and counting, other than when they went all right wing on us in 2016 ?

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Originally Posted by Heisenberg

I don't blame him, I don't believe in him.

Once again, the answer I'm getting for 'why does God allow innocent children to suffer?' is "it is what it is" with a dose of it's not God's faults it's humanity's fault.

Please explain how it's mankind's fault for a baby dying of leukemia (for example)?

Hypothetically, how could mankind prevent it from ever happening - if we had the chance?

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Childhood leukaemia is a disease linked to DNA in the cells in bone marrow. Sometimes the cause is genetic, sometimes a fault in replication of the cells. Glad to say that through science 90% of children survive.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

There are different definitions of what is a country, of course. Wales and the UK can both be described as countries depending on which definition is applied.

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Amazing what you can learn on CCMB

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

I thought in this country, Wales, people voted for Labour?

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Next time you're allowed to pick up some of your farmers lamb from Brecon, can you drop a couple lamb chops off into the Salvation Army on your return? You'll be doing your bit for mankind and christianity.

Cheers.

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

Childhood leukaemia is a disease linked to DNA in the cells in bone marrow. Sometimes the cause is genetic, sometimes a fault in replication of the cells. Glad to say that through science 90% of children survive.

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So mankind didn't create the problem and they cannot prevent it from happening either. This is pretty tough one to blame on humanity.

The only question really left to ask is:

Could God could have created genetics where children didn't die of it (or even suffer from it)?

Well, surely God can do literally anything (all part of the deal with being God, really) and since he created man, the only outcome I think that we can take from this is that God chose to make it so that innocent children get leukemia.

I can't see any other logic in this argument... Unless you can provide a different answer (which, of course, I'd be happy to debate :thumbup: )

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

Next time you're allowed to pick up some of your farmers lamb from Brecon, can you drop a couple lamb chops off into the Salvation Army on your return? You'll be doing your bit for mankind and christianity.

Cheers.

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Missed an open goal for a Lamb of God reference there.

Tsk. Tsk.

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

Next time you're allowed to pick up some of your farmers lamb from Brecon, can you drop a couple lamb chops off into the Salvation Army on your return? You'll be doing your bit for mankind and christianity.

Cheers.

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Not that it'll mean much to you but I go there for meat to do my bit to support local Welsh farmers, rather than support my local German supermarket.

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

Not that it'll mean much to you but I go there for meat to do my bit to support local Welsh farmers, rather than support my local German supermarket.

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Every Lidl helps.

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Originally Posted by Heisenberg

So mankind didn't create the problem and they cannot prevent it from happening either. This is pretty tough one to blame on humanity.

The only question really left to ask is:

Could God could have created genetics where children didn't die of it (or even suffer from it)?

Well, surely God can do literally anything (all part of the deal with being God, really) and since he created man, the only outcome I think that we can take from this is that God chose to make it so that innocent children get leukemia.

I can't see any other logic in this argument... Unless you can provide a different answer (which, of course, I'd be happy to debate :thumbup: )

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I can't see any logic in your argument either. As you don't believe there is a God we can assume that as far as you're concerned he can't be responsible for anything as he doesn't exist. So who responsible when a child gets a nasty disease that could be of a genetic origin...the parents?

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Originally Posted by Heisenberg

Missed an open goal for a Lamb of God reference there.

Tsk. Tsk.

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Agreed, very sloppy

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

I can't see any logic in your argument either. As you don't believe there is a God we can assume that as far as you're concerned he can't be responsible for anything as he doesn't exist. So who responsible when a child gets a nasty disease that could be of a genetic origin...the parents?

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I'm playing devil's advocate and acting like I believe in God, so we can argue from the same viewpoint.

My problem with your logic is clear. You believe in God. God is ultimate. God can therefore prevent innocent children from having things like leukemia (since it's his design).

Since he didn't prevent it when he created our DNA, then it's by choice. God doesn't make mistakes.

There's my logic.

My actual belief is that nobody is to blame and flaws in biology and (cough) evolution (cough) causes these things to happen.

The difference is that I don't believe that God created mankind, unlike you, so I'm struggling with the fact that you have blamed mankind for things they have no control of (such as preventing children having leukemia) but God remains blameless even though he supposedly has the power to do literally anything, including creating genetics which don't result in the painful deaths of millions of children.

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

Pleased to see you've got over the appendicitis and back with both barrels.

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God bless the NHS, for some in this thread, or well done Clem & Nye for others:hehe:

if science is saving the lives of people with terrible diseases or injuries , is that science , or God controlling science ?

If a child dies despite the work of doctors is that the fault of the doctors or the fault of god ?

Is God let off if the child dies but takes the praise from Christians if the child lives ? Its a miracle down to gods work etc ?

He dies .....oh god can't help everyone !

Christians cannot answer these questions as they expose them to having to come forward with facts to prove the existence of god

When they can't come up with any they resort to oh well I have my faith

And thats OK, everyone , as long as it doesn't hurt others , is entitled to believe what they want

But if someone is going to say that god has put off their wedding three times because of covid and thats what god wanted for them then they are clearly very deluded and possibly need counselling as god has therefore not just put off their wedding 3 times , he's allowed covid to kill doctors and nurses in their hundreds trying to treat people during this pandemic .

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

Agreed, very sloppy

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I’ve genuinely had to ‘google’ ‘Lamb of God’.

Illustrates my lack of knowledge about God stuff. I should’ve paid more attention in Sunday School, instead of thieving Fruit Salads and Black Jacks from their Tuck shop.:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Heisenberg

I'm playing devil's advocate and acting like I believe in God, so we can argue from the same viewpoint.

My problem with your logic is clear. You believe in God. God is ultimate. God can therefore prevent innocent children from having things like leukemia (since it's his design).

Since he didn't prevent it when he created our DNA, then it's by choice. God doesn't make mistakes.

There's my logic.

My actual belief is that nobody is to blame and flaws in biology and (cough) evolution (cough) causes these things to happen.

The difference is that I don't believe that God created mankind, unlike you, so I'm struggling with the fact that you have blamed mankind for things they have no control of (such as preventing children having leukemia) but God remains blameless even though he supposedly has the power to do literally anything, including creating genetics which don't result in the painful deaths of millions of children.

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OK Lets leave it there. Just for the record there are about 700 new cases of leukaemia in children in UK annually. Of these about 90% will survive and go on to continue a normal life. It does not result in painful deaths of millions of children ( thank God)

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Originally Posted by insider

What about the dinosaurs.

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They didn’t exist for god squad did they? :hehe:
A load of made up stories from 3000 years ago, we all know the church ruled by fear and persecution not that long ago, imagine how things were when the book was written. Whatever makes you happy though and believing seems to work for some, if you believe you are off to heaven and some afterlife dream existence then good on you....see you there....do they have Guinness?

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

OK Lets leave it there. Just for the record there are about 700 new cases of leukaemia in children in UK annually. Of these about 90% will survive and go on to continue a normal life. It does not result in painful deaths of millions of children ( thank God)

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1. Fine, we can leave it there but only in the knowledge that it's because you have failed to provide an answer to a question I've been asking since this morning and have moved the goalposts several times instead. I can live with you not being able to answer a simple question about the logic of your beliefs if you can?

2. For the record, I said in that post: "God remains blameless even though he supposedly has the power to do literally anything, including creating genetics which don't result in the painful deaths of millions of children". I never said "deaths in the UK from leukaemia". I stand by the fact that millions of children have died painful deaths that a literal God could have prevented when he designed people in the first place.

Enjoy the rest of your evening :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Heisenberg

1. Fine, we can leave it there but only in the knowledge that it's because you have failed to provide an answer to a question I've been asking since this morning and have moved the goalposts several times instead. I can live with you not being able to answer a simple question about the logic of your beliefs if you can?

2. For the record, I said in that post: "God remains blameless even though he supposedly has the power to do literally anything, including creating genetics which don't result in the painful deaths of millions of children". I never said "deaths in the UK from leukaemia". I stand by the fact that millions of children have died painful deaths that a literal God could have prevented when he designed people in the first place.

Enjoy the rest of your evening :thumbup:

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Thanks. For the record I have an answer but thought that it would lead to another long, but enjoyable, discussion leading nowhere

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

Thanks. For the record I have an answer but thought that it would lead to another long, but enjoyable, discussion leading nowhere

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I'd love to hear the answer even if it leads nowhere. The only reason we've hit a wall in this discussion is because you haven't given an answer other than "it is what it is".

It's up to you to decide if you want to engage further. I'm more than happy to keep it going.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

a couple on there , who had their wedding postponed due to covid but finally married , think it was gods work that eventually enabled them to marry , through their prayers

There is a god that is caring for us and looking after us

Surely if God was such a powerful and kind chap he would have stopped covid in the first place which never mind postponing this couples wedding 3 times , has killed 100000 people in the UK , including doctors and nurses and the vulnerable ?

There is no answer to this

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Your post mustv have been sent from heaven , and like the loaves and fishes miracle ,this post it has gone on to feed thousands of words .

Bless you. 😇

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

OK Lets leave it there. Just for the record there are about 700 new cases of leukaemia in children in UK annually. Of these about 90% will survive and go on to continue a normal life. It does not result in painful deaths of millions of children ( thank God)

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So mankind is doing something for children who are suffering. Thank God for that, thankfully he only waited for humans to be around for tens of thousands of years before gifting them science. He could have waited a lot longer.

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

I shared something with you about a friend of mine who devoted his short life to the church and you reply as if you are an insensitive pratt. Im sure you are a better person than that.

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God should have zapped him better

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Originally Posted by lardy

So mankind is doing something for children who are suffering. Thank God for that, thankfully he only waited for humans to be around for tens of thousands of years before gifting them science. He could have waited a lot longer.

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I wonder why he lets all the natural disasters happen around the world, what is he trying to teach us there? Take the Boxing Day tsunami as one example in 2004, 250,000 people wiped out in a flash, almost took me too as I was just sitting in the beach chilling out......

The biggest religious question for me is which is THE God.
As it seems to me its the one you are told to follow as a child by your parents and teachers as all other gods are false gods.
Handy that ain't it.

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Originally Posted by Heisenberg

1. Fine, we can leave it there but only in the knowledge that it's because you have failed to provide an answer to a question I've been asking since this morning and have moved the goalposts several times instead. I can live with you not being able to answer a simple question about the logic of your beliefs if you can?

2. For the record, I said in that post: "God remains blameless even though he supposedly has the power to do literally anything, including creating genetics which don't result in the painful deaths of millions of children". I never said "deaths in the UK from leukaemia". I stand by the fact that millions of children have died painful deaths that a literal God could have prevented when he designed people in the first place.

Enjoy the rest of your evening :thumbup:

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I try hard not to stray from football on this forum, but I'll make an exception for the sake of the strong Christian heritage of the club and those Christians who were its core supporters in the past.

You must have an incredibly high opinion of yourself and mankind generally if you imagine that you are in a better position than God to prioritise such matters Heisenberg, or indeed to understand the complexities of life, death and the workings of the universe.
In saying this, I don't wish to attack you, but rather invite you to make a more intelligent , objectve and realistic assesment of these complicated matters, which may well benefit you personally .

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Originally Posted by RonnieBird

I try hard not to stray from football on this forum, but I'll make an exception for the sake of the strong Christian heritage of the club and those Christians who were its core supporters in the past.

You must have an incredibly high opinion of yourself and mankind generally if you imagine that you are in a better position than God to prioritise such matters Heisenberg, or indeed to understand the complexities of life, death and the workings of the universe.
In saying this, I don't wish to attack you, but rather invite you to make a more intelligent , objectve and realistic assesment of these complicated matters, which may well benefit you personally .

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This **** is proof there is no god

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Originally Posted by insider

The biggest religious question for me is which is THE God.
As it seems to me its the one you are told to follow as a child by your parents and teachers as all other gods are false gods.
Handy that ain't it.

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Why do you assume that just one deity applies? Many religions have multiple gods.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Why do you assume that just one deity applies? Many religions have multiple gods.

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As evinced by your own avatar, which represents a Jinn ,( plural jinni in Arabic) , which as I imagine you know are held by Moslems to be ,(broadly),the equivalent of demons, and sub deities, confuse and deceive humans.

Considering that the thread is about Songs of Praise, which purports at least to be based in the Christian religion,( though it wouldn't surprise me if it now seeks to be inclusive of other philosophies ), how does that relate to the multifarious often primative 'religions' with multiple idols ?

The bottom line is that free will exists and we must all make choices by which we shall stand or fall. It is not , according to Thomas Aquinas, a matter which is capable of proof to humans since most humans lack the ability to understand the proofs when offered and indeed he goes on to say that this is the reason why the majority of humans need Faith.

In any case, I'd go further and suggest that the subject matter is so very very far beyond the understanding of any human that it is perfectly preposterous for any human man to attempt to form logical conclusions. What is left then is the alternative between a degree of Faith and total ,hopeless ignorance.

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Originally Posted by RonnieBird

As evinced by your own avatar, which represents a Jinn ,( plural jinni in Arabic) , which as I imagine you know are held by Moslems to be ,(broadly),the equivalent of demons, and sub deities, confuse and deceive humans.

Considering that the thread is about Songs of Praise, which purports at least to be based in the Christian religion,( though it wouldn't surprise me if it now seeks to be inclusive of other philosophies ), how does that relate to the multifarious often primative 'religions' with multiple idols ?

The bottom line is that free will exists and we must all make choices by which we shall stand or fall. It is not , according to Thomas Aquinas, a matter which is capable of proof to humans since most humans lack the ability to understand the proofs when offered and indeed he goes on to say that this is the reason why the majority of humans need Faith.

In any case, I'd go further and suggest that the subject matter is so very very far beyond the understanding of any human that it is perfectly preposterous for any human man to attempt to form logical conclusions. What is left then is the alternative between a degree of Faith and total ,hopeless ignorance.

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I haven’t got a clue what any of this means

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Originally Posted by goats

I haven’t got a clue what any of this means

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I think he's saying we have a choice between blind superstition and 'total hopeless ignorance'. Yes folks, that's the choice!

Although it looks like there is a third choice of 'pompous, patronising bullshittery'.

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Originally Posted by goats

I haven’t got a clue what any of this means

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Obviously, neither does he.