Racists

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Originally Posted by chrisp_1927

Because its priti Patel and she's a tory. Vile racist imagery is fine aslong as its aimed at a tory woman. Quick read of this thread will confirm that !

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is that racist imagery?

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Originally Posted by Rjk

is that racist imagery?

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My thought as well.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

is that racist imagery?

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On 2nd look probably not tbf.

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Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My cartoon <a href="https://twitter.com/thetimes?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TheTimes</a> Wednesday on keeping <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PritiPatel?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PritiPat el</a> quiet. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TakingTheKnee?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Takin gTheKnee</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TyroneMings?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#TyroneM ings</a> <a href="https://t.co/uEA8bkEIBM">pic.twitter.com/uEA8bkEIBM</a></p>— Peter Brookes (@BrookesTimes) <a href="https://twitter.com/BrookesTimes/status/1415282011657363460?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 14, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

How did this get published?

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Why shouldn’t it be?

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I can fully understand where you are coming from and we have discussed this before .


Patel is as guilty of playing politics as those she says as doing so by taking the knee .



Who is she to tell black footballers or black people what they should do ?



I think not agreeing with the knee is fine but booing it is in my opinion showing peoples true colours , if you will pardon the expression

As for taking direct action against racists not everybody has the confidence and physical ability to do that as again we have discussed before .

If racists were arrested in greater numbers and put before the courts and given stiff sentences then that , as in other crimes , might deter some , but as you suggest there will always be racists as there will always be murderers , it can never be stopped

Kick It Out has done very little , the clubs and the authorities do very little although I have to say the two times I have grassed on racist cardiff city fans , once at Ninian Park and once at Scarborough when I witnessed a fellow fan spit in the face of an opposition player simply warming up on the touchline ff sake .......the police were brilliant and nicked and charged them both ......

Taking the knee is certainly brought the subject closer to the spotlight than stamp out racism signs and kick it out . I think its set to stay following the latest crap these young lads have had to put up with , whether Patel likes it or not

I wonder if they will catch the offenders , and it appears there were many and if they will be locked up ?

I hope they do but I very much doubt they will face prison . Its certainly what they deserve .

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We have discussed this before many times Sludge, and whilst our views on the subject slightly differ, i do respect your opinions on most things (except your musical tastes),
I also understand that those of a quieter nature and smaller build might not want to confront a few neanderthal racist slobs at a game, or anywhere else for that matter.
The thing that irks me though, is right down through history, minorities have caused chaos all over the world, The majority of folk of all nationalities, are caring, loving, peaceful people. Are we going to let minorities run wild and roughshod forever, and only condemn them from a distance?

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

Listened to this just now. There are many other black people out there with these views and I can never understand it

https://www.instagram.com/p/CRSQzOSJ...dium=copy_link

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you are no doubt aware that slavery has always plagued mankind, from the year dot.

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Originally Posted by Feedback

you are no doubt aware that slavery has always plagued mankind, from the year dot.

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I no doubt am.

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Originally Posted by Feedback

you are no doubt aware that slavery has always plagued mankind, from the year dot.

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Agree. Conquerors through history have enslaved oppressed people for their benefit. Recent examples are the Nazis and the Soviets. It's not a zero sum game though surely. The later generations of enslaved people have a right to remember the injustices exercised on their ancestors and seek to make the world they are growing up in a better place?

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Originally Posted by Feedback

you are no doubt aware that slavery has always plagued mankind, from the year dot.

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But the slavery of American Americans still have modern day consequences...

Someone is missing the point, as usual...

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

Agree. Conquerors through history have enslaved oppressed people for their benefit. Recent examples are the Nazis and the Soviets. It's not a zero sum game though surely. The later generations of enslaved people have a right to remember the injustices exercised on their ancestors and seek to make the world they are growing up in a better place?

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Thats all of us then.

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Originally Posted by adz-a32

But the slavery of American Americans still have modern day consequences...

Someone is missing the point, as usual...

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Pavlovs dogs.

It wasn't me who first raised the point so you're criticising the wrong person.

And I'm well aware the concept of slavery resonates far more in the USA, where the constitution crumbled under the weight of its own contradictions within 80 years of drafting

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Originally Posted by Feedback

Thats all of us then.

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Not sure. What was the latest generation of your family to be enslaved?

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

Not sure. What was the latest generation of your family to be enslaved?

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I meant that at some point all of our ancestors are likely to have been enslaved at some point.

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Originally Posted by Feedback

I meant that at some point all of our ancestors are likely to have been enslaved at some point.

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And I meant the recency of our ancestors enslavement is likely to have a greater impact on their view of the impact of slavery on their cultural lives.

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

And I meant the recency of our ancestors enslavement is likely to have a greater impact on their view of the impact of slavery on their cultural lives.

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Of course. How many do you know have had ancestors within say 6 generations enslaved?

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Originally Posted by adz-a32

But the slavery of American Americans still have modern day consequences...

Someone is missing the point, as usual...

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you mean as opposed to non-american americans? :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Feedback

Of course. How many do you know have had ancestors within say 6 generations enslaved?

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Me none. Given the American Civil War was 160 years ago I guess its a tricky answer for most people. Yet those generations of people still have that as a reference point. Do you think that it's because their "freedom" didn't quite work out as they hoped whilst your ancestors enslavement by the Vikings or whoever has wafted away?

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

Me none. Given the American Civil War was 160 years ago I guess its a tricky answer for most people. Yet those generations of people still have that as a reference point. Do you think that it's because their "freedom" didn't quite work out as they hoped whilst your ancestors enslavement by the Vikings or whoever has wafted away?

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Bizarre you reference the US civil war which is 6-8 generations ago, yet in living memory we have had whole populations being enslaved elsewhere on the planet.

What is so special about the US civil war?

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Originally Posted by Feedback

Bizarre you reference the US civil war which is 6-8 generations ago, yet in living memory we have had whole populations being enslaved elsewhere on the planet.

What is so special about the US civil war?

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You gave me this challenge:

Of course. How many do you know have had ancestors within say 6 generations enslaved?

The six generations fitted (bizarrrely)just the other side of your narrative. I mentioned the Soviets and the Nazis in my earlier posts. Who are the other populations in living memory enslaved elsewhere on the planet that you have previously shown some human sympathy for?

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

You gave me this challenge:

Of course. How many do you know have had ancestors within say 6 generations enslaved?

The six generations fitted (bizarrrely)just the other side of your narrative. I mentioned the Soviets and the Nazis in my earlier posts. Who are the other populations in living memory enslaved elsewhere on the planet that you have previously shown some human sympathy for?

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With estimates of 36-48m people worldwide currently enslaved, today we have more slaves than any time in history.

There are far too many to mention, but recently we have seen Yazidi women enslaved, it's common place in Mauritania, and prevalent throughout sub saharan Africa.

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Originally Posted by Feedback

With estimates of 36-48m people worldwide currently enslaved, today we have more slaves than any time in history.

There are far too many to mention, but recently we have seen Yazidi women enslaved, it's common place in Mauritania, and prevalent throughout sub saharan Africa.

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Feel your pain.

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

Feel your pain.

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I have no idea what you are trying yo say.

Anyway, I'm not sure what slavery has got to do with racism, as throughout history, the majority of slavery has been about enslaving their own or neighbouring people and not those from a foreign land or continent

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Originally Posted by Feedback

I have no idea what you are trying yo say.

Anyway, I'm not sure what slavery has got to do with racism, as throughout history, the majority of slavery has been about enslaving their own or neighbouring people and not those from a foreign land or continent

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You think that the majority of enslavement has been about doing it to their own people?

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

You think that the majority of enslavement has been about doing it to their own people?

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Yes, let's take the African slave trade as an example. The slaves were bought by European traders who shipped them to the New World. Who did the Europeans buy the slaves from? Clue: it wasn't other Europeans.

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Originally Posted by Feedback

Yes, let's take the African slave trade as an example. The slaves were bought by European traders who shipped them to the New World. Who did the Europeans buy the slaves from? Clue: it wasn't other Europeans.

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You have this idea in your head that just because there was a history of enslavement on the African continent that they did it to their own people?

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Originally Posted by chrisp_1927

Can't understand how you won't see it. You are treating her differently because of her Asian heritage.
You're obviously staunchly anti racist . Right up until the point that someone from an ethnic minority gets a bit 'uppity', at which point the first thing you mention is her ethnic background. The fact you mention that ridiculous term 'whataboutery' suggests you have no capacity for debate or introspection

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You're obviously extremely naive and clearly one who cherishes Tory principles. Good for you but you need to learn a bit about the world instead of lashing out wildly against anyone you disagree with! I haven't a lot of patience with Tories but in your case, due to your ignorance I'm prepared to be a tad more tolerant.

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

You're obviously extremely naive and clearly one who cherishes Tory principles. Good for you but you need to learn a bit about the world instead of lashing out wildly against anyone you disagree with! I haven't a lot of patience with Tories but in your case, due to your ignorance I'm prepared to be a tad more tolerant.

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In the country we live in it's perfectly possible that Priti Patel has suffered significant racial intolerance and abuse. It is also perfectly possible that being a child of Hindu parents who lived in Uganda before moving to the UK that Priti can manage her views on race by differentiating between black people and other ethnic groups such that her sympathies for some racial challenges become numbed.

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

you mean as opposed to non-american americans? :shrug:

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Meant African Americans

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

In the country we live in it's perfectly possible that Priti Patel has suffered significant racial intolerance and abuse. It is also perfectly possible that being a child of Hindu parents who lived in Uganda before moving to the UK that Priti can manage her views on race by differentiating between black people and other ethnic groups such that her sympathies for some racial challenges become numbed.

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It may well have been possible that she encountered some racist abuse but being born into a wealthy family precluded her from the worst abuse being associated with being coloured and poor.

She would never have had any comprehension of the stigma and trauma poor people suffer. She chooses to ignore and despise her roots for the sake of personal gain. For me that's unforgivable.

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Originally Posted by Feedback

I have no idea what you are trying yo say.

Anyway, I'm not sure what slavery has got to do with racism, as throughout history, the majority of slavery has been about enslaving their own or neighbouring people and not those from a foreign land or continent

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Hi Feedy. Welcome back.

I think the relationship between slavery and racism is much more nuanced than you're allowing for. There was a quite a debate around it from the 1950s onwards. You can certainly have racism without slavery and slavery without racism. But if you accept a definition of racism as being one of identifying a group of people because they are an "other" (other culture, other skin colour, other community etc) I think the link is stronger than you're allowing for.

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

It may well have been possible that she encountered some racist abuse but being born into a wealthy family precluded her from the worst abuse being associated with being coloured and poor.

She would never have had any comprehension of the stigma and trauma poor people suffer. She chooses to ignore and despise her roots for the sake of personal gain. For me that's unforgivable.

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Was her family wealthy before they came to this country?

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

We have discussed this before many times Sludge, and whilst our views on the subject slightly differ, i do respect your opinions on most things (except your musical tastes),
I also understand that those of a quieter nature and smaller build might not want to confront a few neanderthal racist slobs at a game, or anywhere else for that matter.
The thing that irks me though, is right down through history, minorities have caused chaos all over the world, The majority of folk of all nationalities, are caring, loving, peaceful people. Are we going to let minorities run wild and roughshod forever, and only condemn them from a distance?

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I think the problem inherent in all this is not the fact that George Floyd was clearly not a very nice bloke nor was it the fact that in London most young black men murdered are killed by other young black men its the fact that as you say most people of all nationalities are decent people . But there are elements of society including law enforcement , idiots sending racial abuse online and openly racist people in day to day life ......such as at football matches ......that mean that whilst black lives matter and kick it out can be argued to have made its point , recent events are going to Stoke the fire 🔥

Its very worrying in my view how far to the right Britain has become

In my view , as the saying goes , we are all in it together

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

You have this idea in your head that just because there was a history of enslavement on the African continent that they did it to their own people?

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Those Africans enslaved were caught by their own people and sold to Europeans in the many slave markets that existed all along the coast. This practice had green going on long before Columbus discovered the New World.

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Originally Posted by az city

Hi Feedy. Welcome back.

I think the relationship between slavery and racism is much more nuanced than you're allowing for. There was a quite a debate around it from the 1950s onwards. You can certainly have racism without slavery and slavery without racism. But if you accept a definition of racism as being one of identifying a group of people because they are an "other" (other culture, other skin colour, other community etc) I think the link is stronger than you're allowing for.

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Hi Adz

I've not made any comment on the link between racism and slavery. In fact its quite the opposite. My position is that the two can exist outside of each other.

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

It may well have been possible that she encountered some racist abuse but being born into a wealthy family precluded her from the worst abuse being associated with being coloured and poor.

She would never have had any comprehension of the stigma and trauma poor people suffer. She chooses to ignore and despise her roots for the sake of personal gain. For me that's unforgivable.

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Seems she was from an ordinary family who ran a newsagent business. She went to a standard secondary modern school in Watford, then Keele University. Not from a privilaged public school background or Oxbridge.

I think your judgement of her is coloured by the fact that she is a Tory.

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

Seems she was from an ordinary family who ran a newsagent business. She went to a standard secondary modern school in Watford, then Keele University. Not from a privilaged public school background or Oxbridge.

I think your judgement of her is coloured by the fact that she is a Tory.

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Apart from some very brief words about a political cartoon, I’ve not made any comment on the Home Secretary in this thread. So, continuing to leave personal remarks out of the discussion, what do you think of a politician from any party who is the subject of stories like these?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41923007

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b1880833.html

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Apart from some very brief words about a political cartoon, I’ve not made any comment on the Home Secretary in this thread. So, continuing to leave personal remarks out of the discussion, what do you think of a politician from any party who is the subject of stories like these?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41923007

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b1880833.html

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I don't think a lot of her....never have, but it don't see how these newspaper clips have anything to do with the comments Dorcus made about her.

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

I don't think a lot of her....never have, but it don't see how these newspaper clips have anything to do with the comments Dorcus made about her.

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And yet you are still defending her. In my view, there is no need for anyone to bring her ethnicity into the argument, the links I posted define her as a wrong un, no matter what party she belongs to.

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Originally Posted by Feedback

Those Africans enslaved were caught by their own people and sold to Europeans in the many slave markets that existed all along the coast. This practice had green going on long before Columbus discovered the New World.

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I think we were hoodwinked about Columbus....

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

And yet you are still defending her. In my view, there is no need for anyone to bring her ethnicity into the argument, the links I posted define her as a wrong un, no matter what party she belongs to.

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Its like trying to reason with Trump fanatics. Complete waste of time.

To be fair some Tory MPs have backed the players and distanced themselves from Patel.