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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
lardy
Did you come to the conclusion that it's a Marxist organisation yourself?
Absolutely not. I read a lot and watch a lot of different videos on YouTube from extreme right wing and also left wing (and not from some chavvie keyboard warrior stuck in his mums house hiding behind a laptop), and then form my own options. No one is more left wing than I am, but as for Marxism, Uggg, it is a form of oppression. Oh, and before you accuse me of being fascist, my best mate for over 40 years is black, and whose parents came over on the Windrush. He knows exactly how I feel about an out an out Marxist organisation and footballers taking the knee and basically bowing down to it.
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
Have you read about Colin Kaepernick?
This neo Marxist nonsense just makes racists feel a bit better.
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
tforturton
The problem with 'taking the knee' is that (1) it has been going on for too long
Maybe taking the knee should go on as long as the slave trade (400 years).
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
Mr Soul '68
Absolutely not. I read a lot and watch a lot of different videos on YouTube from extreme right wing and also left wing (and not from some chavvie keyboard warrior stuck in his mums house hiding behind a laptop), and then form my own options. No one is more left wing than I am, but as for Marxism, Uggg, it is a form of oppression. Oh, and before you accuse me of being fascist, my best mate for over 40 years is black, and whose parents came over on the Windrush. He knows exactly how I feel about an out an out Marxist organisation and footballers taking the knee and basically bowing down to it.
You do know Marxism is just a school of thought, not a political party, economic system or form of governance?
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
Mr Soul '68
Because most of them are thicker than pigshit, to be honest with you. Great as footballers, but not the brightest as people. Yeah, I know I am generalisng here, but a lot of them aren't that bright. Also I am pretty sure not many of them would be politically motivated enough to read and understand that BLM are essentially a Marxist organisation. They are just running with the pack
I once worked on a pig farm. I can assure you pig shit is not thick.
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
G rangetown Blue
Have you read about Colin Kaepernick?
This neo Marxist nonsense just makes racists feel a bit better.
Yes, isn't Colin Kaepernick, a quarterback who knelt at the start of NFL games in protest of police brutality and racial inequality in the US?
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
az city
Maybe taking the knee should go on as long as the slave trade (400 years).
:thumbup:
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
az city
That's clever and funny. I may pinch that if I may.
You carry on 👍
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
Mr Soul '68
Absolutely not. I read a lot and watch a lot of different videos on YouTube from extreme right wing and also left wing (and not from some chavvie keyboard warrior stuck in his mums house hiding behind a laptop), and then form my own options. No one is more left wing than I am, but as for Marxism, Uggg, it is a form of oppression. Oh, and before you accuse me of being fascist, my best mate for over 40 years is black, and whose parents came over on the Windrush. He knows exactly how I feel about an out an out Marxist organisation and footballers taking the knee and basically bowing down to it.
Do you know anything about Marxism? Marxism is about class, not race. "Marxism" has become a right-wing buzzword used by people that have no ****ing idea who Marx was or what his philosophy is. Be honest with yourself, did you even know Karl Marx was German?
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
G rangetown Blue
Have you read about Colin Kaepernick?
This neo Marxist nonsense just makes racists feel a bit better.
As with most things, people will put their own spin on it to help it fit their pov/agenda.
It doesn't suit some people that people agree with the movement so they just go straight out and attack it, put a bad spin on it etc. Newspapers/social media etc are flooded with one side of the argument until enough people who don't think for themselves just nod and agree.
I've no idea if any of that makes sense, usually doesn't when I come on here drunk, I babble when I'm sober so this is probably just a pile of nonsense I'll read back and wonder why I typed..
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
delmbox
Great stuff. Keep it up with the kneeling lads, it's working a treat
Such rudeness.
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
What hidden agenda is that then? It can’t be that they’re Marxists, because people like you are always telling us about that one - it’s hardly hidden.
People like me ?
Are you following up on Dorcas’ remark?
You’re not a racist , a bad person or unintelligent by any stretch Dorcas. You’d be pressed to offend me since your views would be honest and rational, but you see what you bring out of the woodwork when you mention stuff like that ?
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
People like me ?
Are you following up on Dorcas’ remark?
You’re not a racist , a bad person or unintelligent by any stretch Dorcas. You’d be pressed to offend me since your views would be honest and rational, but you see what you bring out of the woodwork when you mention stuff like that ?
What a self pitying response to what I said. Do you really think I was referring to your religion? "People like you" can still be used without having the connotations you want to put on it you know and I used it in this case because it fitted with what I wanted to say. I said it because if I'd been asked to predict five people on here who would play the BLM = Marxist card to try to justify their views. I would have been wrong in some cases, but not with you. You would have been in my five all day long.
So, having got your mud slinging attempt to move things off topic out of the way, I ask again, what is the "hidden agenda" you talk about? It cannot be Marxism, given that I never stop reading about that when BLM is discussed among some right wingers - although I note Steve Baker, of all people, can see problems for his party regarding responses to taking the knee;-
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...aking-the-knee
Finally, those of you telling the England players they're wrong have not responded to the James O'Brien video posted on here yesterday yet - here it is again just in case you missed it first time.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presente...g-priti-patel/
.
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
Undercoverinwurzelland
"But I once played in a rugby team in the Army composed of fourteen Fijians and me."
I wonder why they made him play on the opposition :hehe:
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
Mr Soul '68
Absolutely not. I read a lot and watch a lot of different videos on YouTube from extreme right wing and also left wing (and not from some chavvie keyboard warrior stuck in his mums house hiding behind a laptop), and then form my own options. No one is more left wing than I am, but as for Marxism, Uggg, it is a form of oppression. Oh, and before you accuse me of being fascist, my best mate for over 40 years is black, and whose parents came over on the Windrush. He knows exactly how I feel about an out an out Marxist organisation and footballers taking the knee and basically bowing down to it.
Such a cliché :hehe: You do know Marx had some Eurocentric ideas?
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
It's a bit of a challenge to believe those booing Taking The Knee are expressing their principled misgivings with Marxism given every single foreign anthem was also booed by some England fans, regardless of the social, economic or political philosophy associated with each nation.
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr Soul '68
Absolutely not. I read a lot and watch a lot of different videos on YouTube from extreme right wing and also left wing (and not from some chavvie keyboard warrior stuck in his mums house hiding behind a laptop), and then form my own options. No one is more left wing than I am, but as for Marxism, Uggg, it is a form of oppression. Oh, and before you accuse me of being fascist, my best mate for over 40 years is black, and whose parents came over on the Windrush. He knows exactly how I feel about an out an out Marxist organisation and footballers taking the knee and basically bowing down to it.
Of course, you came to your own opinion after watching extreme right wing YouTube videos. It just so happened to be the same opinion. OK :hehe:
I guess either hundreds of footballers have been simultaneously hoodwinked by the Marxists because "they're not very bright" or there is a problem with the way black players are treated and they're using a simple gesture to draw attention to it.
We may never know the truth...
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
There are valid reasons for disagreeing with an anti-racism message?
It's a personal choice whether you wish to take a knee. It shouldn't be for Ed upon you because then it's contrived. No inference should be made if you do or don't kneel. Likewise idiots booing those that do need shutting up.
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
Baloo
Doesn’t seem much of a reason to boo it mind.
agreed, that I don't understand
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
splott parker
It’s working because this peaceful protest is keeping the scourge of racism in the spotlight, it certainly hasn’t been eroded, if anything these last few days it’s gained considerable strength. The booers are using it as cover to display their true feelings I believe, we're wise to it, it’s they who need to be eroded.
I dont disagree. My comment was about the inference that if you don't support taking the knee, you must be racist. That's nonsense.
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
az city
Maybe taking the knee should go on as long as the slave trade (400 years).
The slave trade has been going on before the pyramids were built.
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
NYCBlue
Do you know anything about Marxism? Marxism is about class, not race. "Marxism" has become a right-wing buzzword used by people that have no ****ing idea who Marx was or what his philosophy is. Be honest with yourself, did you even know Karl Marx was German?
Marx wasn't a German, a country that only came into being 12 years before his death and 24 years after he wrote the communist manifesto.
Marx died stateless and was stateless from 1848 onwards.
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
Feedback
The slave trade has been going on before the pyramids were built.
the slave trade is still going on.
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
Feedback
Marx wasn't a German, a country that only came into being 12 years before his death and 24 years after he wrote the communist manifesto.
Marx died stateless and was stateless from 1848 onwards.
Marx was born in Trier - part of Prussia - in 1818. Prussia was a founding state of the Confederation of Germany. The Confederation of Germany was created at the Congress of Vienna 1814-15 following the fall of Napoleon. Marx was born a German!
He was expelled from Prussia in 1849. Was he then stateless (a citizen of the world)? Probably yes if you project back our modern legal conceptions (underpinned by international laws adopted in the 20th century) of what comprises citizenship of a state. But you don't want to project back our modern understanding of 'Germany' and 'German' because the unified state didn't appear until 1871!
NYVBlue is right that most people who throw around the term 'Marxist' have no idea what they're talking about.
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
Feedback
agreed, that I don't understand
I understand , they are racists
Someone booing a black player or indeed a white player taking the knee can dress it up with as much its Marxist innit , we don't want politics in football ......er you mentioned Marxism.......bollocks as much as they want .......they are racists . If they don't agree with the knee , keep quiet for 30 seconds , sip on your coffee , read a programme , just shut the feck up then watch the game . It really isn't difficult .
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
Feedback
The slave trade has been going on before the pyramids were built.
the pyramids weren't built by slaves though.
yes slavery has existed as far back as human history, but there's a good reason why we talk about the transatlantic slave trade in this discussion, and not others.
you can still see the economic and social after effects of the transatlantic slave trade (and wider colonialism) . thriving countries had their economies surpressed, while our nation grew rich.
many of the social attitudes towards and socio economic problems faced by the black communities in the west can be traced back to slavery
yes slavery has been going on for thousands of years, but who are the group of people who are still feeling the effects of the Spartans slavery of the Helots? there is nobody.
so bringing up other types of slavery into this discussion just makes it look as though you're trying to diminish the wrong that the west has done. instead we should face upto it, teach it to our children, own it and become a better society.
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
Colin Kaepernick took a knee to draw attention to racism. We are talking about racism. That's it.
BLM is not a Marxist organization. It doesn't refer to property, wealth or class.
But by all means, everyone should feel free to acquaint themselves with both.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/mar...ist-manifesto/
https://wepresent.wetransfer.com/sto...risse-cullors/
And before you all start on "Defund the Police" please read that part thoroughly first.
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
ToTaL ITK
the slave trade is still going on.
Yes of course. See my earlier post about current estimates of numbers of slaves worldwide today.
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
jon1959
Marx was born in Trier - part of Prussia - in 1818. Prussia was a founding state of the Confederation of Germany. The Confederation of Germany was created at the Congress of Vienna 1814-15 following the fall of Napoleon. Marx was born a German!
He was expelled from Prussia in 1849. Was he then stateless (a citizen of the world)? Probably yes if you project back our modern legal conceptions (underpinned by international laws adopted in the 20th century) of what comprises citizenship of a state. But you don't want to project back our modern understanding of 'Germany' and 'German' because the unified state didn't appear until 1871!
NYVBlue is right that most people who throw around the term 'Marxist' have no idea what they're talking about.
NYC Blue said Marx was German, Marx was not. He was never a citizen of Germany and therefore he cannot be considered German. It is ok to get things wrong sometimes, it is no big deal.
I'm not sure why you are rubbing salt into NYCs wounds here. an honest mistake was made and its no biggie. He'll get over it.
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
the pyramids weren't built by slaves though.
agreed, I don't think anyone has said they were.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
yes slavery has existed as far back as human history, but there's a good reason why we talk about the transatlantic slave trade in this discussion, and not others.
because it fits a narrative, thats why.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
you can still see the economic and social after effects of the transatlantic slave trade (and wider colonialism) . thriving countries had their economies surpressed, while our nation grew rich.
which thriving countries?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
many of the social attitudes towards and socio economic problems faced by the black communities in the west can be traced back to slavery
perhaps. however, slavery has never been legal in the UK, and there was a famous case (Somerset v Stewart) in the 1770s which confirmed that the institution of slavery was not compatible with English law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
yes slavery has been going on for thousands of years, but who are the group of people who are still feeling the effects of the Spartans slavery of the Helots? there is nobody.
so bringing up other types of slavery into this discussion just makes it look as though you're trying to diminish the wrong that the west has done. instead we should face upto it, teach it to our children, own it and become a better society.
I'm not doing anything of sort, you're creating a straw man. Slavery has never been legal in the UK, yes some people got fat off the slave trade, but that isn't the majority, in fact it was a few very elite individuals. Here in the UK we helped destroy the institution of slavery, and given its never been legal here, I struggle to see what the UK has to atone for.
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
NYCBlue
BLM is no longer a single issue organisation and it has been hijacked by the noisy rabble on the left. You've not been paying attention if you think otherwise.
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
Feedback
agreed, I don't think anyone has said they were.
because it fits a narrative, thats why.
which thriving countries?
perhaps. however, slavery has never been legal in the UK, and there was a famous case (Somerset v Stewart) in the 1770s which confirmed that the institution of slavery was not compatible with English law.
I'm not doing anything of sort, you're creating a straw man. Slavery has never been legal in the UK, yes some people got fat off the slave trade, but that isn't the majority, in fact it was a few very elite individuals. Here in the UK we helped destroy the institution of slavery, and given its never been legal here, I struggle to see what the UK has to atone for.
whether it was legal or not isn't the issue
Bristol and Liverpool in particular owe their existence in part to the slave trade
When people say oh it was a long time ago , we have nothing to be sorry about the people saying that are generally white
Someone saying we should make our future generations aware of slavery is different to saying everyone should feel guilty for being white
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
whether it was legal or not isn't the issue
Bristol and Liverpool in particular owe their existence in part to the slave trade
that's just not true. Bristol was the 2nd city in the UK way before the slave trade started. Both Liverpool and Bristol had merchants who were involved in the slave trade, but to suggest it was only the slave trade that allowed both cities to prosper is a little wide of the mark.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
When people say oh it was a long time ago , we have nothing to be sorry about the people saying that are generally white
people aren't saying it was long ago, people are saying the institution of slavery was not built upon racism. when the first settlors arrived in Jamestown and Roanoke, you can guarantee they had never seen anything other than a white face. The fact the first settlors did not enslave the local population tells us racism and slavery was not in their thinking. Slavery came later, and it was the institution of slavery in the south that fostered the racism we see in the US today. We had no such institution in the UK, and whilst I'm not going to say racism does not exist in the UK, racism here is borne out of something completely different than in the US. The UK had its empire, which led many to believe that coming from the metropole somehow made you superior. This has affected all empires throughout history so its not unique to the UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Someone saying we should make our future generations aware of slavery is different to saying everyone should feel guilty for being white
I don't disagree. However you can see that the narrative is often hijacked by those who wish to push an agenda whereby we must have this collective guilt for something that happened in Africa and the US and was caused by African tribal leaders enslaving their own and selling them to Europeans who were all too willing to transport them to the New World. Why aren't modern day Africans being held to account in the same way when they are equally as culpable?
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
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Originally Posted by
Feedback
NYC Blue said Marx was German, Marx was not. He was never a citizen of Germany and therefore he cannot be considered German. It is ok to get things wrong sometimes, it is no big deal.
I'm not sure why you are rubbing salt into NYCs wounds here. an honest mistake was made and its no biggie. He'll get over it.
Very funny. NYC Blue is right. You are wrong. It's no biggie, though.
You are not the only one confused. GB News has got itself totally in a twist about taking the knee - arguing with itself on twitter, and watching its remaining viewer figures plummet as anti-anti-racists switch off over Guto Harri's show of solidarity. Give it a year tops!
https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...aking-the-knee
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Feedback
that's just not true. Bristol was the 2nd city in the UK way before the slave trade started. Both Liverpool and Bristol had merchants who were involved in the slave trade, but to suggest it was only the slave trade that allowed both cities to prosper is a little wide of the mark.
people aren't saying it was long ago, people are saying the institution of slavery was not built upon racism. when the first settlors arrived in Jamestown and Roanoke, you can guarantee they had never seen anything other than a white face. The fact the first settlors did not enslave the local population tells us racism and slavery was not in their thinking. Slavery came later, and it was the institution of slavery in the south that fostered the racism we see in the US today. We had no such institution in the UK, and whilst I'm not going to say racism does not exist in the UK, racism here is borne out of something completely different than in the US. The UK had its empire, which led many to believe that coming from the metropole somehow made you superior. This has affected all empires throughout history so its not unique to the UK
I don't disagree. However you can see that the narrative is often hijacked by those who wish to push an agenda whereby we must have this collective guilt for something that happened in Africa and the US and was caused by African tribal leaders enslaving their own and selling them to Europeans who were all too willing to transport them to the New World. Why aren't modern day Africans being held to account in the same way when they are equally as culpable?
Slavery made a significant contribution to the development of Liverpool and Bristol , there is no doubt about that whatsoever
We live in a western democracy . We can educate people and youngsters about the past through school and the media .
Do you think modern day Africans in poor countries can be educated in the same way where in many cases the struggle is where the next meal is coming from ?
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Very funny. NYC Blue is right. You are wrong. It's no biggie, though.
You are not the only one confused. GB News has got itself totally in a twist about taking the knee - arguing with itself on twitter, and watching its remaining viewer figures plummet as anti-anti-racists switch off over Guto Harri's show of solidarity. Give it a year tops!
https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...aking-the-knee
Karl Marx wasn't German. you even said yourself he was born in Prussia, ergo he was Prussian, just like Bismarck. Prussia wasn't Germany therefore in the same way Oliver Cromwell was not British, Marx wasn't German.
Germany didn't even exist when Marx was born, German irredentism only came about following the revolutions of 1848.
The whole concept of what a German empire and state would look like was only decided following the Austro-Prussian war in 1866 and the Kleinedeutshce factions won the day. If the Austrian's had won that war, you'd be suggesting Freud and Tesla were German too.
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Slavery made a significant contribution to the development of Liverpool and Bristol , there is no doubt about that whatsoever
We live in a western democracy . We can educate people and youngsters about the past through school and the media .
Do you think modern day Africans in poor countries can be educated in the same way where in many cases the struggle is where the next meal is coming from ?
I see, so what you are saying is that because Africans are poor, they shouldn't be educated on how they played their part in the slave trade.
no one is disputing the europeans created a much larger slave market, but those markets already existed. It wasn't the europeans that created them. If you want to do something about slavery, don't look to the past, look at how many people are estimated to be slaves today and try and do something about that. It is still rife in Mauritania.
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Feedback
Karl Marx wasn't German. you even said yourself he was born in Prussia, ergo he was Prussian, just like Bismarck. Prussia wasn't Germany therefore in the same way Oliver Cromwell was not British, Marx wasn't German.
Germany didn't even exist when Marx was born, German irredentism only came about following the revolutions of 1848.
The whole concept of what a German empire and state would look like was only decided following the Austro-Prussian war in 1866 and the Kleinedeutshce factions won the day. If the Austrian's had won that war, you'd be suggesting Freud and Tesla were German too.
Does it only count when someone is born?
If a new country is formed, do they have a population of zero until babies start getting born?
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Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Feedback
Karl Marx wasn't German. you even said yourself he was born in Prussia, ergo he was Prussian, just like Bismarck. Prussia wasn't Germany therefore in the same way Oliver Cromwell was not British, Marx wasn't German.
Germany didn't even exist when Marx was born, German irredentism only came about following the revolutions of 1848.
The whole concept of what a German empire and state would look like was only decided following the Austro-Prussian war in 1866 and the Kleinedeutshce factions won the day. If the Austrian's had won that war, you'd be suggesting Freud and Tesla were German too.
Can't the rest of you just tell Feedback he's right even if you don't believe it? It's clearly very important to him that he believes he is.
