People calling for Tan to go

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Originally Posted by lardy

Bury AFC restarted in North West Counties Division One, which is tier 10. It's asking quite a lot to go from tier 10 to tier 2 in 12 years.

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Wimbledon.

Also, I think we have more potential to attract investment, even if only fan made, than bury or wimbledon.

Not saying wed be back in the championship but I think we'd be there or there abouts......and with a sense of "club" that is impossible under the Emperor.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

Yeah no players no money no owner no manager no coaches.

First step ownership from somewhere found then we need a manager and players. Do we have a ground or has that gone.?

We spent 20 plus years in the lower league so I dont think and all conquering phoenix club is going to storm through the non league and the lower divisions with no money and possibly no ground.

Better going bust!!! Lunacy.

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Wimbledon.


You'd also need investement from the fan base.

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Originally Posted by Divine Wright

Wimbledon.

Also, I think we have more potential to attract investment, even if only fan made, than bury or wimbledon.

Not saying wed be back in the championship but I think we'd be there or there abouts......and with a sense of "club" that is impossible under the Emperor.

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AFC Wimbledon have been going since 2003 and haven't made the Championship. They've actually only finished above 15th once in nine football league seasons (when they won promotion from FL2). Which is not to diminish what they've done, I think it's amazing.

I used Bury as a recent example as I guessed that the league phoenix clubs go into may change over the years- but it would have made more sense to choose one from 12 years ago I suppose.


It'd be nice to think that our fanbase would bond and work together to build up a phoenix club, but I dunno. We might end up with three :hehe:

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Originally Posted by Divine Wright

Ye....I realise I was a bit generous on the half a million.

My point is , if we had gone out of business 12 or 13 years ago and had to reform in non-league, it'd be highly unlikely that we'd be much lower than we are at present, given the amount of money that would be invested in a club with the fanbase and catchment area we have. That's not me being arrogant , I just think it's the most logical outcome. We are not Halifax, Wrexham or Southend.

People can talk about Tan saving us, but there is a reasonable likelihood that had he not saved us , we would be in a similar or even better situation now.

We would be better in that we would likely have more supporter involvement. We'd more likely have a team and a style of football that we'd all like to see.

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IF, now there’s a little word with a BIG meaning. No one knows exactly what would have happened if the Club had gone out of business 12 or so years ago. It’s all if’s and buts, only the present matters and what Vincent Tan does or doesn’t do now.

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Originally Posted by lardy

AFC Wimbledon have been going since 2003 and haven't made the Championship. They've actually only finished above 15th once in nine football league seasons (when they won promotion from FL2). Which is not to diminish what they've done, I think it's amazing.

I used Bury as a recent example as I guessed that the league phoenix clubs go into may change over the years- but it would have made more sense to choose one from 12 years ago I suppose.


It'd be nice to think that our fanbase would bond and work together to build up a phoenix club, but I dunno. We might end up with three :hehe:

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Its a fair point. It would mean Cardiff City has died and gone forever. Your talking about a new club.

There could be a couple of phoenix clubs. Why are we assuming a new Welsh Club would go straight through the English system. Could have a club in the Welsh league system.

Thankfully its a scenario that hasnt happened and wishing it had happened as to our current predicament of a likely relegation to L1 is far far a better option.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

Why are we assuming a new Welsh Club would go straight through the English system. Could have a club in the Welsh league system.

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I guess Newport were allowed back in.

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Originally Posted by Divine Wright

I guess Newport were allowed back in.

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No appetite from their support to set up a club in the Welsh system.

Nothing to stop a group setting up a new club to compete in the Welsh system alongside a different club.

You can't have a Director of Football until you have someone competent enough to choose the right person for the job.

If it's left to Choo and Dalman to pick the best man for the job, i.e. someone who has a wealth of football knowledge but hasn't held such a position before, then you wouldn't be overly confident they'd get it right - in the same way they seldom get their managerial selection right.
The chain of events would require Choo and Dalman to leave first, before a DoF was brought in.

If they were to remain, the only hope would be that they headhunt a 'tried and tested' DoF who is currently employed at another club, but that will likely come at a high risk of compensation payment.

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Originally Posted by lardy

AFC Wimbledon have been going since 2003 and haven't made the Championship. They've actually only finished above 15th once in nine football league seasons (when they won promotion from FL2). Which is not to diminish what they've done, I think it's amazing.

I used Bury as a recent example as I guessed that the league phoenix clubs go into may change over the years- but it would have made more sense to choose one from 12 years ago I suppose.


It'd be nice to think that our fanbase would bond and work together to build up a phoenix club, but I dunno. We might end up with three :hehe:

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Cardiff, Unsalted Cardiff and I can't believe it's not Cardiff

Tan has been a good owner in many respects but not having a football man on the board and leaving Dalman and co to select the manager has been gross incompetence.

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Originally Posted by Rock_Flock_of_Five

You can't have a Director of Football until you have someone competent enough to choose the right person for the job.

If it's left to Choo and Dalman to pick the best man for the job, i.e. someone who has a wealth of football knowledge but hasn't held such a position before, then you wouldn't be overly confident they'd get it right - in the same way they seldom get their managerial selection right.
The chain of events would require Choo and Dalman to leave first, before a DoF was brought in.

If they were to remain, the only hope would be that they headhunt a 'tried and tested' DoF who is currently employed at another club, but that will likely come at a high risk of compensation payment.

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It cant happen, in the current football world and financial climate. How many other EFL clubs have a director of football currently ? - very few I would guess. Most managers also don't like working with a DoF.

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Originally Posted by Bald Barry Bastad

Tan has been a good owner in many respects but not having a football man on the board and leaving Dalman and co to select the manager has been gross incompetence.

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The thing is, it is his club and his money. He can basically do what he likes and all the sniping and moaning is a waste of time. Fans would be better off using their time and efforts to get behind the team and help get them out of this dreadful run before it is too late. That, after all, is what the fans ‘job’ is. How can anyone call themselves a fan if they don't go to games or stop going because they don't like the manager, individual players, team tactics or the owner/chairman. That to me is the antithesis of what a fan should be.

Tan has never been shy on the investment side of the club ( training complex, unused tier an academy)

He has been badly burned by his advisors..
-- those investors who reclaimed their millions for advising him we would love red leaving him to take the flak
-- Warnock, spent millions on average aging players and allegedly taking backhanders.
-- Malky as mentioned above somewhere was probably the catalyst Tan not trusting managers
-- His 'yes' men at the club who take a huge wage and have allowed this situation.

He is the owner of a global company and probably has little time to get involved in any of his football teams so relies on 'trusted' advisors whom are shockingly letting him down.

Shame Rick Wright never had the money like Tan so just remember the owners like the Kumars and Hamman who cleaned us out all while pretending to love us!! oh and the riddler.

maybe his new liverpool supporting addition to us could bear fruit

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

Cardiff, Unsalted Cardiff and I can't believe it's not Cardiff

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One would play in blue, one in red, and one in a mixture of red and blue, surely?

It always amazes me that not all the idiots are on the other board. Tan owns CCFC lock stock and barrel. Almost all of the debt is owed directly to Tan and without him the club is insolvent. In other words the club, at the present moment, is not a saleable proposition and nobody, in their right mind, would offer enough to at least cover Tan’s debt. Those buffoons calling for Vincent to go must ask themselves what lunatic is prepared to pay in excess of £100 million for a Championship club soon to be manager less and threatened with relegation!!

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Originally Posted by pomeroy

It always amazes me that not all the idiots are on the other board. Tan owns CCFC lock stock and barrel. Almost all of the debt is owed directly to Tan and without him the club is insolvent. In other words the club, at the present moment, is not a saleable proposition and nobody, in their right mind, would offer enough to at least cover Tan’s debt. Those buffoons calling for Vincent to go must ask themselves what lunatic is prepared to pay in excess of £100 million for a Championship club soon to be manager less and threatened with relegation!!

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Makes you wonder why Tan bought us in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Mr Soul '68

One would play in blue, one in red, and one in a mixture of red and blue, surely?

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With an earwig on the badge.

I can understand people clinging to what we've currently got (which isn't much) rather than contemplate a future which could be even worse. Who knows what's round the corner?

However, there's surely a stark reality to the direction the club is heading. It must be obvious to everyone Tan is looking to extricate himself from the club at the earliest opportunity and at a price of his choosing. When the red debacle finally ended he made it clear "no further significant investment' and for all his failings I believe him to be a man of his word.

We will never make progress under his watch. His only concern is to make the club saleable and he wants hands on control of his personnel. Therefore even if he got rid of Dalman and Choo he would only likely recruit two lookalikes. He is never going to employ football people in the interests of developing the club.

It actually might be in our interests to get relegated so that he might take a much lower bid just to get out of a failed project. Hopefully that might enable more forward thinking owners to put cash and knowledge into getting us on the right road.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Money is a very good starting point though and my point is that the owner has pumped enough in for any vaguely competent CEO and Chairman to have made a better job of running the club than ours have.

I’d like to believe that Tan, Dalman and Choo would finally see the light and accept that they don’t have the football knowledge collectively to tyrn us into, for example, a Burnley, Brighton, Palace, Brentford or even a Coventry, but City fans have been talking about the need for something like a Director of Football for five years and more and we’re still as far away as ever from appointing one.

I’m guessing and I may be wrong, but I think the Mackay/Moody incident deeply effected Vincent Tan and has left him with a deep distrust of “football people” - it’s as if he has an advisor he trusts who makes recommendations on things like managerial appointments based on the sort of person they think Tan could work with.

Four of our last five managers have been, basically, defensive, long ball merchants, hence we’ve ended with the current very limited technically squad of senior pros which are so much worse at retaining the ball than almost every team they play. This has been a gradual process which Tan, Dalman and Choo have done nothing to try to halt, so I can only conclude that it is a route they have been happy to go down - for me, given his public pronouncements on the game, it seems reasonable to believe that Vincent Tan likes us to be bigger and more physical than our opponents and has little patience with what he sees as messing about with the ball at the back, it’s entirely believable that he’d want us to lump it forward as soon as possible.

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I was just pointing out that too often money is seen as the answer, and people expect success just because money has been pumped in, but too often it doesn't work.

There are more important things for the club to fix.

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Originally Posted by pomeroy

Tan owns CCFC lock stock and barrel. Almost all of the debt is owed directly to Tan and without him the club is insolvent. In other words the club, at the present moment, is not a saleable proposition and nobody, in their right mind, would offer enough to at least cover Tan’s debt.

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If this is the case, does it mean Vincent Tan will own Cardiff City until he dies? And what happens then?

If not, what do you reckon are the likeliest future scenarios?

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

If this is the case, does it mean Vincent Tan will own Cardiff City until he dies? And what happens then?

If not, what do you reckon are the likeliest future scenarios?

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If you had £100K mortgage on your house and due to a number of circumstances it is now worth £10k, however rich you are you are not minded to sell it. However if your house , again due to a number of circumstances, has the potential over time to be worth considerably more than £100k you might look at selling. IMO the club has to be worth something close to what it owes Tan for him to contemplate selling. We are lucky in the sense that most of our debt is owed to Tan not to banks or other lenders but because of this it seems likely that unless there is a quick change in the club fortunes Tan is likely to be in situ for a good time. I, like you, have little idea as to what the future holds but it seems that we, like a host of other clubs, have to come to terms with economic reality and start by stop paying grossly obscene wages to ordinary players. The average Championship player salary for 20/21 season is reported at over £29K per week, much more than your average Joe earns in a year. This lunatic scenario is not sustainable and will have to addressed by Tan, and many other clubs, in the near future.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

The thing is, it is his club and his money. He can basically do what he likes and all the sniping and moaning is a waste of time. Fans would be better off using their time and efforts to get behind the team and help get them out of this dreadful run before it is too late. That, after all, is what the fans ‘job’ is. How can anyone call themselves a fan if they don't go to games or stop going because they don't like the manager, individual players, team tactics or the owner/chairman. That to me is the antithesis of what a fan should be.

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He CAN do what he wants yes. But surely you want him to do what is best?

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Originally Posted by dml1954

The thing is, it is his club and his money. He can basically do what he likes and all the sniping and moaning is a waste of time. Fans would be better off using their time and efforts to get behind the team and help get them out of this dreadful run before it is too late. That, after all, is what the fans ‘job’ is. How can anyone call themselves a fan if they don't go to games or stop going because they don't like the manager, individual players, team tactics or the owner/chairman. That to me is the antithesis of what a fan should be.

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How Wikipedia defines sports fan

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_...social%20media.

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

With an earwig on the badge.

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The team playing in blue would go back to just having a bluebird as a badge i.e the badge worn when I first went down in season 68/69

The team playing in red would have a giant millipede as it's badge.

Meanwhile the team playing in blue and red would feature a bluebird with a giant centipede in it's mouth

We all know the solution is to appoint a football person to run things. Preferably someone with an affiliation with the club that can connect with the fans. But that's isn't going to happen. Tan wants his mate to run things as he trusts him with his money and said mate doesn't know anything about football so it's wipe and repeat from here on in.

Forget a DOF. The first and most pressing matter is getting Mick and TC out of the club.

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Originally Posted by pomeroy

If you had £100K mortgage on your house and due to a number of circumstances it is now worth £10k, however rich you are you are not minded to sell it. However if your house , again due to a number of circumstances, has the potential over time to be worth considerably more than £100k you might look at selling. IMO the club has to be worth something close to what it owes Tan for him to contemplate selling. We are lucky in the sense that most of our debt is owed to Tan not to banks or other lenders but because of this it seems likely that unless there is a quick change in the club fortunes Tan is likely to be in situ for a good time. I, like you, have little idea as to what the future holds but it seems that we, like a host of other clubs, have to come to terms with economic reality and start by stop paying grossly obscene wages to ordinary players. The average Championship player salary for 20/21 season is reported at over £29K per week, much more than your average Joe earns in a year. This lunatic scenario is not sustainable and will have to addressed by Tan, and many other clubs, in the near future.

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You are ignoring the running costs. On purely economic grounds most people would sell something for £10K right now if it costs them £1K a month in running costs for the year ahead and when they are unlikely to be achieve a selling price that rises more than £1K per month. The cost to Tan is escalating month by month.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

You are ignoring the running costs. On purely economic grounds most people would sell something for £10K right now if it costs them £1K a month in running costs for the year ahead and when they are unlikely to be achieve a selling price that rises more than £1K per month. The cost to Tan is escalating month by month.

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You ignore the fact that Tan is rich enough to afford the running costs and to a billionaire are probably just a nuisance. He is probably in a position where he could pick and choose when and if to sell but only an idiot, and you cannot call Tan an idiot, would be likely to contemplate selling up now. Having watched the U23’s this season and just now, he might get lucky and be able to cash in some budding Grealish or two coming through.

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Originally Posted by pomeroy

You ignore the fact that Tan is rich enough to afford the running costs and to a billionaire are probably just a nuisance. He is probably in a position where he could pick and choose when and if to sell but only an idiot, and you cannot call Tan an idiot, would be likely to contemplate selling up now. Having watched the U23’s this season and just now, he might get lucky and be able to cash in some budding Grealish or two coming through.

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I am not ignoring that at all. I referred to your analogy that didn't include running costs and I included a reference to 'purely economic grounds' because ownership of football clubs are indeed not based entirely on pure economic grounds (as your analogy suggested) :facepalm:

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

I am not ignoring that at all. I referred to your analogy that didn't include running costs and I included a reference to 'purely economic grounds' because ownership of football clubs are indeed not based entirely on pure economic grounds (as your analogy suggested) :facepalm:

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Welcome to ccmb where people can't be wrong so keep on typing.

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

Welcome to ccmb where people can't be wrong so keep on typing.

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It's no crime debating things on a message board and on a civil basis, you know. Try it sometime.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

It's no crime debating things on a message board and on a civil basis, you know. Try it sometime.

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I see you took my post the wrong way.

Oh well.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

It's no crime debating things on a message board and on a civil basis, you know. Try it sometime.

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Exactly that.

It isn't a case of being right and wrong.
Everybody isn't right 100% of the time either.

If you can't discuss/debate it here then where can you?

I do think some mix up support at the stadium with discussing topics on message boards though but it happens.

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

Exactly that.

It isn't a case of being right and wrong.
Everybody isn't right 100% of the time either.

If you can't discuss/debate it here then where can you?

I do think some mix up support at the stadium with discussing topics on message boards though but it happens.

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In this case, I was referring to the person TBG was talking to, I thought TBG was right but the person then replied with a different view to what they originally started with, seemed like moving the goal posts as not to lose, hence my reply to TBG who although usually rather intelligent, seems to have gotten a little sensitive to my reply, judging from the response I got. Oooooh bitchy.

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Originally Posted by Rock_Flock_of_Five

You can't have a Director of Football until you have someone competent enough to choose the right person for the job.

If it's left to Choo and Dalman to pick the best man for the job, i.e. someone who has a wealth of football knowledge but hasn't held such a position before, then you wouldn't be overly confident they'd get it right - in the same way they seldom get their managerial selection right.
The chain of events would require Choo and Dalman to leave first, before a DoF was brought in.

If they were to remain, the only hope would be that they headhunt a 'tried and tested' DoF who is currently employed at another club, but that will likely come at a high risk of compensation payment.

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Nail on head.
There isn’t anyone at board level at the club who could make decent football decisions

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

In this case, I was referring to the person TBG was talking to, I thought TBG was right but the person then replied with a different view to what they originally started with, seemed like moving the goal posts as not to lose, hence my reply to TBG who although usually rather intelligent, seems to have gotten a little sensitive to my reply, judging from the response I got. Oooooh bitchy.

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Laughing here, dembe, old fruit - and accompanied with apologies from yours truly :-)

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Originally Posted by 198bore

We all know the solution is to appoint a football person to run things. Preferably someone with an affiliation with the club that can connect with the fans. But that's isn't going to happen. Tan wants his mate to run things as he trusts him with his money and said mate doesn't know anything about football so it's wipe and repeat from here on in.

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Why are Swansea consistently successful despite changes in manager ?
They have a senior advisor in Curtis who has been in football for many years, most spent at the club

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Laughing here, dembe, old fruit - and accompanied with apologies from yours truly :-)

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I understand the confusion as I replied to you and the post had no indication what the **** I was talking about :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

I understand the confusion as I replied to you and the post had no indication what the **** I was talking about :thumbup:

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Splendid. We are all chums again! Thank the Lord..... :hehe:

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Originally Posted by pomeroy

He is probably in a position where he could pick and choose when and if to sell but only an idiot, and you cannot call Tan an idiot, would be likely to contemplate selling up now.

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Would it be idiotic to stop pouring money into a failed project and cut your losses?

Bear in mind that Cardiff City Football Club under the stewardship of Tan and his minions even managed to lose money in the Premier League. Twice.