Possible racist gesture from Cardiff fan

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feedback

its the knee jerk response that follows from many on here if you don't immediately denounce what they perceive to be racist/sexist/bigotry.

Q What do you call a Welshman with a stick up his arse?

A Taffy apple

You may think that's racist, I can't see how it could be.

---

It isn't racist, hope that helps

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feedback

its the knee jerk response that follows from many on here if you don't immediately denounce what they perceive to be racist/sexist/bigotry.

Q What do you call a Welshman with a stick up his arse?

A Taffy apple

You may think that's racist, I can't see how it could be.

---

The response to your faux pas regarding the turban song was lengthened not by people joining the fray but by your ridiculous ego not accepting that you were stupid and insensitive to try and say what's racist about that song ? You were enlightened as to why it was racist but still spent a day squirming your way around .

You didnt perceive the song to be racist but it is .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

It isn't racist, hope that helps

---

Indeed , it isn't racist

Ignorant maybe , at a push 🤔

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Fat Tits Matter

---

What about Bell Ends and Twats it seems those names are okay for use by the purists ?? 😂

I’m partial to a fat tit, not on a Hull City player I might add though. If it’s two fat tits I’m in:thumbup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

It isn't racist, hope that helps

---

It isn't, but some have taken umbrage with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

The response to your faux pas regarding the turban song was lengthened not by people joining the fray but by your ridiculous ego not accepting that you were stupid and insensitive to try and say what's racist about that song ? You were enlightened as to why it was racist but still spent a day squirming your way around .

You didnt perceive the song to be racist but it is .

---

Back to the turban song...as always you just want to shout down whoever you think is wrong (in this case the racist) without asking them to explain their thought processes.

Why not ask the question why the song isn't racist and see if that can be answered? Why not try to get them to think rather than adopt an entrenched position in which they think its now a legitimate battle.

If you're going to persuade people their actions or thinking are wrong, you do that by selling your idea, not forcing it upon them

Think the wind and the sun in aesops fable. Read about Daryl Davies and how his approach to fighting racism (and other forms of bigotry) achieves stellar results.

Edit: the lord lieutenant of London called it right regarding tackling racism. Some people use words that are clearly benign in intention but are labelled racists. It stifles any kind of discussion or debate

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Indeed , it isn't racist

Ignorant maybe , at a push 🤔

---

Ignorant of what, it's no more than a play on words

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feedback

It isn't, but some have taken umbrage with it.

---

People take umbrage with lots of things it shouldn’t be used to weaken the arguments against things that deserve it though

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

People take umbrage with lots of things it shouldn’t be used to weaken the arguments against things that deserve it though

---

Agreed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feedback

Back to the turban song...as always you just want to shout down whoever you think is wrong (in this case the racist) without asking them to explain their thought processes.

Why not ask the question why the song isn't racist and see if that can be answered? Why not try to get them to think rather than adopt an entrenched position in which they think its now a legitimate battle.

If you're going to persuade people their actions or thinking are wrong, you do that by selling your idea, not forcing it upon them

Think the wind and the sun in aesops fable. Read about Daryl Davies and how his approach to fighting racism (and other forms of bigotry) achieves stellar results.

Edit: the lord lieutenant of London called it right regarding tackling racism. Some people use words that are clearly benign in intention but are labelled racists. It stifles any kind of discussion or debate

---

The turban song is racist as it comes

I think you know that of course it is

And you were given an explanation as to why by loads of people on that record breaking thread

Rather than accept that you keep bleating like a lamb because your ego won't allow you to be wrong

Feck knows what happens when a doctor tells you it's bad news we have to take your kidney out

I feel sorry for the fecker , you will be arguing you are right despite overwhelming evidence that you are wrong till they shut the coffin

Clear the area !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

The turban song is racist as it comes

I think you know that of course it is

And you were given an explanation as to why by loads of people on that record breaking thread

Rather than accept that you keep bleating like a lamb because your ego won't allow you to be wrong

Feck knows what happens when a doctor tells you it's bad news we have to take your kidney out

I feel sorry for the fecker , you will be arguing you are right despite overwhelming evidence that you are wrong till they shut the coffin

Clear the area !

---

You clearly missed the bit where I articulated my opinion that you don't beat racists by telling them they're wrong, but by asking them why they think they are right and why do they think the way they do.

You just want to shout at those you don't like, but that approach never works

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Canton Kev

The group of players he made the gesture towards had black players in it. Are you really trying to argue that had he made a monkey gesture it would’ve been towards specifically the white person?

---

But the player he was fat shaming was white. :hehe:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

How the **** is it hypocritical for thinking someone should be banned for being racist but not for saying something about a man's fat tits :hehe:

---

Hang on, so are you saying that if a fan makes a stupid gesture to a player with big tits, that is an insult to just that person singularly? If that is the case then a man making a similarly stupid gesture towards a black man is surely an insult to just that person singularly - by your very definition. At least try to be consistent. I am being completely consistent in pointing out that, whether the gesture had racist intentions, or fat shaming intentions then either way it was an act of hatred making fun of someone because of their physical appearance. The fact the gesture was made to one player doesn't preclude the possibility that some people in one or other of the demographics may be upset, hurt, or shamed when watching it.

On the other hand, others here seem relieved that this man was mocking overweight people rather than black people. In a perverse world, this seems to be entirely explainable and not hypocritical at all.

You're a hypocrite mate and, I'd wager that if we went forward 10 years and fat shaming was more of an issue that people scorned, you'd be jumping on that bandwagon too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Do me a Faerber

Hang on, so are you saying that if a fan makes a stupid gesture to a player with big tits, that is an insult to just that person singularly? If that is the case then a man making a similarly stupid gesture towards a black man is surely an insult to just that person singularly - by your very definition. At least try to be consistent. I am being completely consistent in pointing out that, whether the gesture had racist intentions, or fat shaming intentions then either way it was an act of hatred making fun of someone because of their physical appearance. The fact the gesture was made to one player doesn't preclude the possibility that some people in one or other of the demographics may be upset, hurt, or shamed when watching it.

On the other hand, others here seem relieved that this man was mocking overweight people rather than black people. In a perverse world, this seems to be entirely explainable and not hypocritical at all.

You're a hypocrite mate and, I'd wager that if we went forward 10 years and fat shaming was more of an issue that people scorned, you'd be jumping on that bandwagon too.

---

so you say it is hypocrisy that people were appalled by what they thought was racist abuse, but not that bothered when they found out it was body shaming.

if you think people should treat those two things in the same way, which reaction do you think should have applied to both? being appalled or being not interested?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Do me a Faerber

Hang on, so are you saying that if a fan makes a stupid gesture to a player with big tits, that is an insult to just that person singularly? If that is the case then a man making a similarly stupid gesture towards a black man is surely an insult to just that person singularly - by your very definition. At least try to be consistent. I am being completely consistent in pointing out that, whether the gesture had racist intentions, or fat shaming intentions then either way it was an act of hatred making fun of someone because of their physical appearance. The fact the gesture was made to one player doesn't preclude the possibility that some people in one or other of the demographics may be upset, hurt, or shamed when watching it.

On the other hand, others here seem relieved that this man was mocking overweight people rather than black people. In a perverse world, this seems to be entirely explainable and not hypocritical at all.

You're a hypocrite mate and, I'd wager that if we went forward 10 years and fat shaming was more of an issue that people scorned, you'd be jumping on that bandwagon too.

---

Go have a burger ffs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

I find it best to hang fire sometimes.......

---

Exactly
The pitchforks were out pretty quickly.
Shows the need for proof being branding people on my clip at one angle

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Do me a Faerber

Hang on, so are you saying that if a fan makes a stupid gesture to a player with big tits, that is an insult to just that person singularly? If that is the case then a man making a similarly stupid gesture towards a black man is surely an insult to just that person singularly - by your very definition. At least try to be consistent. I am being completely consistent in pointing out that, whether the gesture had racist intentions, or fat shaming intentions then either way it was an act of hatred making fun of someone because of their physical appearance. The fact the gesture was made to one player doesn't preclude the possibility that some people in one or other of the demographics may be upset, hurt, or shamed when watching it.

On the other hand, others here seem relieved that this man was mocking overweight people rather than black people. In a perverse world, this seems to be entirely explainable and not hypocritical at all.

You're a hypocrite mate and, I'd wager that if we went forward 10 years and fat shaming was more of an issue that people scorned, you'd be jumping on that bandwagon too.

---

Hello Jirga :wave:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Do me a Faerber

Hang on, so are you saying that if a fan makes a stupid gesture to a player with big tits, that is an insult to just that person singularly? If that is the case then a man making a similarly stupid gesture towards a black man is surely an insult to just that person singularly - by your very definition. At least try to be consistent. I am being completely consistent in pointing out that, whether the gesture had racist intentions, or fat shaming intentions then either way it was an act of hatred making fun of someone because of their physical appearance. The fact the gesture was made to one player doesn't preclude the possibility that some people in one or other of the demographics may be upset, hurt, or shamed when watching it.

On the other hand, others here seem relieved that this man was mocking overweight people rather than black people. In a perverse world, this seems to be entirely explainable and not hypocritical at all.

You're a hypocrite mate and, I'd wager that if we went forward 10 years and fat shaming was more of an issue that people scorned, you'd be jumping on that bandwagon too.

---

For consistency then, do you feel the Kev McN song is an act of hatred towards people who might be self-conscious about their silver/grey hair?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feedback

You clearly missed the bit where I articulated my opinion that you don't beat racists by telling them they're wrong, but by asking them why they think they are right and why do they think the way they do.

You just want to shout at those you don't like, but that approach never works

---

100% and can change racism for any other subject.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Baloo

For consistency then, do you feel the Kev McN song is an act of hatred towards people who might be self-conscious about their silver/grey hair?

---

What downside is there to be king able to shag everyone's wives? Unless they have fat tits.... Wait what if I like fat tits? I'm confused

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feedback

You clearly missed the bit where I articulated my opinion that you don't beat racists by telling them they're wrong, but by asking them why they think they are right and why do they think the way they do.

You just want to shout at those you don't like, but that approach never works

---

No , you said why is this a racist song ?, you said it wasn't racist

You were told why it was

Then spent the day trying to argue the toss that it wasn't 🙄

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

100% and can change racism for any other subject.

---

Feedback want initially talking about changing people's attitude towards racism though , the slippery eel

He got onto that discussion , an entirely different thing ......how we deal with racism .....to deflect away from his pathetic notion that the turban song wasn't racist .......it was pointed out it was by loads of posters and the idiot instead of putting his hand up and saying yep , I can see that , went off elsewhere trying to avoid his foot in mouth moment

He's not interested in whether somethings racist or not , he is only interested in his feathered ego

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rjk

so you say it is hypocrisy that people were appalled by what they thought was racist abuse, but not that bothered when they found out it was body shaming.

if you think people should treat those two things in the same way, which reaction do you think should have applied to both? being appalled or being not interested?

---

I have not said, at any stage, how people should react. I am just pointing out that the reactions should, at least, be consistent. Otherwise it does look a bit like, well, hypocrisy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Go have a burger ffs

---

So, no answer then. Ta!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

100% and can change racism for any other subject.

---

It's bollocks , he argued about trying to change people's opinions about racism after he had been told 100 times the turban song was racist , so off he went , like a slippery eel

It was a deflection tactic designed to save his arse which had been fried

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Baloo

For consistency then, do you feel the Kev McN song is an act of hatred towards people who might be self-conscious about their silver/grey hair?

---

Clearly the Kev McN song is not a cruel taunt towards Kevin McNaughton and is not sung in an effort to ridicule the individual, and ends with the singers wishing they had silver hair too. Is it possible that people who are self-conscious about their hair feel uncomfortable about it? Yes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Do me a Faerber

So, no answer then. Ta!

---

If chanting and gestures about fat people were illegal then perhaps this conversation wouldn't be taking place ?

I don't know , maybe they are under the public order act ?

We have gone from seeing what in almost 100 percent of people was a racist gesture to a bloke taking the piss out of a footballer with man boobs

Now that's clearly not a nice thing to do but is it illegal ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Do me a Faerber

Clearly the Kev McN song is not a cruel taunt towards Kevin McNaughton and is not sung in an effort to ridicule the individual, and ends with the singers wishing they had silver hair too. Is it possible that people who are self-conscious about their hair feel uncomfortable about it? Yes.

---

OK, earlier you stated intention wasn’t relevant. Your response now however seems to imply we should apply some judgement over what we consider to be lighthearted, puerile or offensive behaviour.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

It's bollocks , he argued about trying to change people's opinions about racism after he had been told 100 times the turban song was racist , so off he went , like a slippery eel

It was a deflection tactic designed to save his arse which had been fried

---

as always you struggle to grasp what is being said. you really have no idea about how to tackle bigotry in any form, that is clear. You just wave your arms and shout at people, as if that ever worked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

No , you said why is this a racist song ?, you said it wasn't racist

You were told why it was

Then spent the day trying to argue the toss that it wasn't ��

---

again, you're not taking on board what was written. Me saying something is not racist is not the same as you asking me why I tihnk it is not racist.

try and keep up sludge, you're not as lacking as intelligence as your posts make out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Feedback want initially talking about changing people's attitude towards racism though , the slippery eel

He got onto that discussion , an entirely different thing ......how we deal with racism .....to deflect away from his pathetic notion that the turban song wasn't racist .......it was pointed out it was by loads of posters and the idiot instead of putting his hand up and saying yep , I can see that , went off elsewhere trying to avoid his foot in mouth moment

He's not interested in whether somethings racist or not , he is only interested in his feathered ego

---

you really do not get the point at all do you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

If chanting and gestures about fat people were illegal then perhaps this conversation wouldn't be taking place ?

I don't know , maybe they are under the public order act ?

We have gone from seeing what in almost 100 percent of people was a racist gesture to a bloke taking the piss out of a footballer with man boobs

Now that's clearly not a nice thing to do but is it illegal ?

---

Out of interest, do you think that bloke walks down the high street, sees a fat bloke and makes the same gesture? If he did it in the High Street, and a police officer happened to be walking past, then he would get, at the least, a stern ticking off. There are lots of things that we can do that are not "illegal", but we probably wouldn't do them because the majority of us are sympathetic to the feelings of others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

It's bollocks , he argued about trying to change people's opinions about racism after he had been told 100 times the turban song was racist , so off he went , like a slippery eel

It was a deflection tactic designed to save his arse which had been fried

---

Maybe, but that was not his point in the post I quoted

On the post you're on about I thought the song was racist but he's in his right to review each incident separately. I do think he was on the windup on that particular post and you've lapped it up.

Please just close this car crash of a thread

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feedback

you really do not get the point at all do you.

---

I get the point

The issue of the turban song was brought up

You said its not racist , what's racist about it ?

It was clearly explained to you why it was

Your ego wouldn't let you accept it was and that you were wrong

And you spent the rest of the day tying yourself up in knots

That was the point and the only point . Nobody was interested in your childish attempts to deflect away from the fact its a racist song , you said it wasn't, it was outlined why it was and you simply couldn't accept you were wrong

You were wrong then and you are now and forever will be on the matter

One day your wife will suffocate you with a pillow , I would if I was her

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feedback

again, you're not taking on board what was written. Me saying something is not racist is not the same as you asking me why I tihnk it is not racist.

try and keep up sludge, you're not as lacking as intelligence as your posts make out.

---

The turban song is racist, I am not asking you why you think it's racist , its racist

There is no debate about it apart from the one in your head trying to deflect away from the fact you said it wasn't racist

If you want to say you can be in a minority of one and still be right then carry on

If you genuinely believe the song isn't racist then you are as stupid and ignorant and the people singing it

But you know that it's racist , you just won't admit it as that will prove you are wrong and you hate being wrong , it's your MO

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Do me a Faerber

Out of interest, do you think that bloke walks down the high street, sees a fat bloke and makes the same gesture? If he did it in the High Street, and a police officer happened to be walking past, then he would get, at the least, a stern ticking off. There are lots of things that we can do that are not "illegal", but we probably wouldn't do them because the majority of us are sympathetic to the feelings of others.

---

Possibly , most of us see fat people on a regular basis but don't abuse them but you do get exceptions

There were 17000 people in the ground , how many abused that player ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I get the point

The issue of the turban song was brought up

You said its not racist , what's racist about it ?

It was clearly explained to you why it was

Your ego wouldn't let you accept it was and that you were wrong

And you spent the rest of the day tying yourself up in knots

That was the point and the only point . Nobody was interested in your childish attempts to deflect away from the fact its a racist song , you said it wasn't, it was outlined why it was and you simply couldn't accept you were wrong

You were wrong then and you are now and forever will be on the matter

One day your wife will suffocate you with a pillow , I would if I was her

---

You really have missed the point sludge.

You do not win over racists and other bigots by telling them they are wrong. All that does is create an entrenched position.

If you ask someone to articulate their reasons, they struggle to do so. At that point they understand.

Your method has never worked and will never work. You carry on though, as you know best.

As for my wife suffocating me, don't threaten me with a good time

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

The turban song is racist, I am not asking you why you think it's racist , its racist

There is no debate about it apart from the one in your head trying to deflect away from the fact you said it wasn't racist

If you want to say you can be in a minority of one and still be right then carry on

If you genuinely believe the song isn't racist then you are as stupid and ignorant and the people singing it

But you know that it's racist , you just won't admit it as that will prove you are wrong and you hate being wrong , it's your MO

---

You really don't have any idea of how to counter bigotry do you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feedback

You really don't have any idea of how to counter bigotry do you.

---

The question about countering bigotry is a different matter , nothing to do with you saying the turban song wasn't racist

You said it wasn't racist , you were told in detail why it was yet were not humble enough to say fair enough

That's you owned forever on here on this matter

It happens , I supported mick and I was wrong, he had lost the plot and I didn't see it

You thought the turban song wasn't racist , it's been explained why it is but you want to talk about countering bigotry . You want to talk about countering bigotry because it deflects things away from you being a dopey sod thinking the turban song isn't racist .

I can't help you any further

Sorry

Don't even pm either , I am done arguing with you