Cancel culture

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew

Some of the best comedies and satire have been produced by US writers and animators over the last few decades. Obviously, SP but The Simpsons, Family Guy, American Dad, and I've just started a thread on Archer. It's a medium that is perfect for handling satirical subjects and calling out hypocrisy.

---

The first 5 seasons of archer were gold, every single one was amazing!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Wasn’t he caught wanking at women he works with? Do you think people should do whatever they want with 0 consequences?

Also he’s doing live shows still - https://louisck.com/

---

That wasn’t the original point

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

It’s funny how the people who are sure cancel culture exists and people who vote Tory and brexit are a perfect circle on the Venn diagram :hehe:

Maybe open up the media you consume guys you’re looking like a bunch of sheep.

---

I don’t think there’s doubt that a cancel culture exists. There are protests on campuses for certain people not to be allowed to perform.

The question is where is the line and who becomes the arbitrator of that line.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

So the people who are saying Vance culture exists do you want people to say and do whatever they want and no one is allowed to think they’re a ****?

I can’t believe someone is defending Louis CK as a shining example of this either :hehe:

---

You’re clearly not getting it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

I don’t think there’s doubt that a cancel culture exists. There are protests on campuses for certain people not to be allowed to perform.

The question is where is the line and who becomes the arbitrator of that line.

---

How is that new? Isn’t that just protesting and boycotting? The people are the arbitrators of that aren’t they?

I’m sure it’s not always in the right spirit but Is this really happening that often? Often enough for you to get up in a huff about it or are the media spinning the odd time of this happening and using it to make their middle age readership angry over nothing?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

That wasn’t the original point

---

Your examples of Cancel culture were Jim Davidson, chubby brown and Louis ck.

What else am I asking Louis ck about?

Have you been to university? It’s about 0.01% of the whole student base involved in these groups protesting. ****ing busy bodies who go into student politics then real politics. People need some perspective, it’s “political correctness gone mad” all over again ffs.

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/20...nder-employees

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by life on mars

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/20...nder-employees

---

How has he been cancelled he’s got a special on Netflix :hehe:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

Punching up or down suggests that there is already a preconceived right or wrong

---

Richard Branson has more money than all of the poor people in the world put together.

No right or wrong, but shitting on the already shitted on just seems a bit lazy and cuntish.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

Punching up or down suggests that there is already a preconceived right or wrong

---

What do you mean already a preconceived right or wrong? How does this suggest it?

Anyway there are plenty of jokes that “punch down” they’re just a lot harder to execute without looking like a smug twat so punching up is usually used a lot more as it’s often more entertaining.

It’s much easier to get a laugh about the Queen or the President than someone who’s living on the breadline.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

What do you mean already a preconceived right or wrong? How does this suggest it?

Anyway there are plenty of jokes that “punch down” they’re just a lot harder to execute without looking like a smug twat so punching up is usually used a lot more as it’s often more entertaining.

It’s much easier to get a laugh about the Queen or the President than someone who’s living on the breadline.

---

I think as with so many things in the last few years, the fault line has been brexit, and there's been so many jokes, from generally wealthier remain voters (comedians, media types etc) aimed at generally poorer brexit voters (the poor overwhelmingly voted leave) labelling them racist, stupid, gullible etc without any attempt to understand things. That has been the greatest mass example of 'punching down' and snobbery I've witnessed in my lifetime. I think it's the double standards really.

This addresses some of it - references Ian Dunt, althouth for me the worse example, the very epitome of smug is James O Brien.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...oted-remain-eu

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-racist-stupid

Anywaaaay. I very much advocate a position where we can all make fun of but also respect and try and understand all positions and sharing and experiencing different cultures and jokes is key to that.

And trumping that..

Stewart Lee, whom I used to really like, and still do like his style. Can you match this smug ignorance?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMvwNkPgwgg

This probably helped his career, yet others are chastised for far worse, and I think that's what grates really, the cutural norms are reflective of a broadly elitist position.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamesWales

I think as with so many things in the last few years, the fault line has been brexit, and there's been so many jokes, from generally wealthier remain voters (comedians, media types etc) aimed at generally poorer brexit voters (the poor overwhelmingly voted leave) labelling them racist, stupid, gullible etc without any attempt to understand things. That has been the greatest mass example of 'punching down' and snobbery I've witnessed in my lifetime. I think it's the double standards really.

This addresses some of it - references Ian Dunt, althouth for me the worse example, the very epitome of smug is James O Brien.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...oted-remain-eu

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-racist-stupid

Anywaaaay. I very much advocate a position where we can all make fun of but also respect and try and understand all positions and sharing and experiencing different cultures and jokes is key to that.

---

Seriously? Just how smug were arch leavers like Rees-Mogg, Gove, Johnson, Tim Martin etc? It cuts both ways.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pearcey3

Seriously? Just how smug were arch leavers like Rees-Mogg, Gove, Johnson, Tim Martin etc? It cuts both ways.

---

I absolutely knew that would be the response! It's a fact, most people on lower socio economic status or earnings voted leave. Yet jokes like this were fine and lapped up and did no damage to his career it seems. No calls to be cancelled...and that's right! That's how it should be!

Imagine the furore if the joke was aimed at some of the groups who typically try to cause the cancelling / ending of careers?

I only mention this as an example of punching down which was deemed fine in this case.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamesWales

It does go on and people are definitely fearful of voicing their opinions in front of many 'liberals' in much the same way that others are in front of some conservatives, especially in the past. I have a friend at BBC radio Wales who strongly stated this was the case there. You just have to toe the line to the prevailing elite.

---

Is this the same prevailing elite who have been in government for the last decade and own the vast majority of the press or are we talking about the imaginary one again ?

This reads an awful lot like 'if I said my offensive thoughts out loud someone may call me out on it'. There was a time when keeping your horrible little thoughts to yourself in wider company was just called being polite. For all the talk of 'snowflakes' and 'karens' the poor oppressed rightwing are rather prone to screaming they've been 'cancelled' in every paper and TV show available if someone on twitter dares points out they've said something offensive.

Good work Croesy for talking sense in this thread!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Your examples of Cancel culture were Jim Davidson, chubby brown and Louis ck.

What else am I asking Louis ck about?

Have you been to university? It’s about 0.01% of the whole student base involved in these groups protesting. ****ing busy bodies who go into student politics then real politics. People need some perspective, it’s “political correctness gone mad” all over again ffs.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NYCBlue

People get "canceled" when they are no longer economically viable.

---

Louis CK was one of the biggest if not the biggest at the time. He was still economically viable. Still is and still sells out shows. He still has been blacklisted from most of most of the services like Netflix.

Economically viable, but cancelled.

That was in direct response to your point - whenever a counter narrative is shown you go onto a different topic than dealing with the reply.

House of cards. Cancelled off TV. If Chapelle wasn't so big they would have never have shown that special.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be cancelled or it's wrong to do what they're doing but you can't deny it isn't real.

As far as I am concerned cancel culture , snowflakes , woke this , woke that , all lives matter is the language of people represented by Katy Hopkins

Complete Kents basically

I mean if someone isn't offended by different cultures , sexualities etc then why whinge and moan about it ?

I am with Stewart Lee

In the past right wing comedians were represented by Jim Davidson

Now they have degrees and worked in the city

Still Kents though

I see that depressingly this seems to have turned into a Right v Left issue again.

Forgetting that majority which lie in the centre.

Cancel culture is a far more complex issue than just left v right.

Or just saying " well this sort of thing has always happened look at Mary Whitehouse or the BBC banning records" without recognising the game changer which is the internet.

Especially bloody twitter. Which is an excellent idea in theory , but has turned into a complete can of worms.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by caerkid

Is this the same prevailing elite who have been in government for the last decade and own the vast majority of the press or are we talking about the imaginary one again ?

This reads an awful lot like 'if I said my offensive thoughts out loud someone may call me out on it'. There was a time when keeping your horrible little thoughts to yourself in wider company was just called being polite. For all the talk of 'snowflakes' and 'karens' the poor oppressed rightwing are rather prone to screaming they've been 'cancelled' in every paper and TV show available if someone on twitter dares points out they've said something offensive.

Good work Croesy for talking sense in this thread!

---

Spot on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

Louis CK was one of the biggest if not the biggest at the time. He was still economically viable. Still is and still sells out shows. He still has been blacklisted from most of most of the services like Netflix.

Economically viable, but cancelled.

That was in direct response to your point - whenever a counter narrative is shown you go onto a different topic than dealing with the reply.

House of cards. Cancelled off TV. If Chapelle wasn't so big they would have never have shown that special.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be cancelled or it's wrong to do what they're doing but you can't deny it isn't real.

---

That’s just people being sacked for being sexual deviants ffs, that’s always happened it isn’t a new phenomenon.

Surely these people deserved to lose their jobs?

I don’t understand what your point is even, 2 people rightly sacked isn’t the best example is it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamesWales

And trumping that..

Stewart Lee, whom I used to really like, and still do like his style. Can you match this smug ignorance?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMvwNkPgwgg

This probably helped his career, yet others are chastised for far worse, and I think that's what grates really, the cutural norms are reflective of a broadly elitist position.

---

You don’t like it because it’s a good joke at your expense. You’re more than allowed to boycott him and “cancel” him if it hurts your feelings.

What is the opposite of this joke that’s getting people cancelled then? Who has been chastised for far worse? Being chastised isn’t being cancelled is it?

I’m going to see Stewart Lee next month, cannot wait 👌

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Your examples of Cancel culture were Jim Davidson, chubby brown and Louis ck.

What else am I asking Louis ck about?

Have you been to university? It’s about 0.01% of the whole student base involved in these groups protesting. ****ing busy bodies who go into student politics then real politics. People need some perspective, it’s “political correctness gone mad” all over again ffs.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by caerkid

Is this the same prevailing elite who have been in government for the last decade and own the vast majority of the press or are we talking about the imaginary one again ?

This reads an awful lot like 'if I said my offensive thoughts out loud someone may call me out on it'. There was a time when keeping your horrible little thoughts to yourself in wider company was just called being polite. For all the talk of 'snowflakes' and 'karens' the poor oppressed rightwing are rather prone to screaming they've been 'cancelled' in every paper and TV show available if someone on twitter dares points out they've said something offensive.

Good work Croesy for talking sense in this thread!

---

Unless it impacts you.

This all stemmed from a trans-gender debate that women didn't feel safe in certain situations with someone that biologically was born a man, or however you interpret it. That's a feeling I can't comprehend so I can't say if it's fair.

I think the conversation is allowed to be had without being called out straight away.

But agree - In the main, just keep your thoughts to yourself

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elwood Blues

I see that depressingly this seems to have turned into a Right v Left issue again.

Forgetting that majority which lie in the centre.

Cancel culture is a far more complex issue than just left v right.

Or just saying " well this sort of thing has always happened look at Mary Whitehouse or the BBC banning records" without recognising the game changer which is the internet.

Especially bloody twitter. Which is an excellent idea in theory , but has turned into a complete can of worms.

---

I agree on all counts there.

In response to WJ

No one is saying you can’t have the debate though the problem is the debate, to me at least, stinks of the debate about gay people in the 90s and focusses on rape and peadophilia which isn’t actually happening.

In reality people share bathrooms and changing rooms no problem but again it’s blown out of proportion in the press and celebrities on Twitter with nothing better to do get caught in a rabbit hole they can’t get out of without making themselves look like twats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

You don’t like it because it’s a good joke at your expense. You’re more than allowed to boycott him and “cancel” him if it hurts your feelings.

What is the opposite of this joke that’s getting people cancelled then? Who has been chastised for far worse? Being chastised isn’t being cancelled is it?

I’m going to see Stewart Lee next month, cannot wait ��

---

Mate, that seriously isn't a good joke. He's a funny man, but that is the epitome of 'punching down'. So you clearly dont have an issue with jokes that punch down despite what you said. As usual, the principle here is political. If its the right kind of punching down or offence then it's fine; basically based on your beliefs.

The last thing I would do is call for him to be cancelled. Thats the second point I'm making. He's said something really pretty offensive (and definitely quite snobby) and thats fine. I think he's a knob for it but I defend his right to do it. Others don't, they try to get them taken off bills etc.

That's the root of what we are talking about here. The inconsistency. If those that preach tolerance could show a bit more of it, then that would be a great thing.

The new wave of British comedy brought humour that wasn't about some Indian bloke down the corner shop , banana boats etc

It's pretty inclusive stuff

It just tends to show up racists , Tories and little englanders

So it's all good

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamesWales

Mate, that seriously isn't a good joke. He's a funny man, but that is the epitome of 'punching down'. So you clearly dont have an issue with jokes that punch down despite what you said. As usual, the principle here is political. If its the right kind of punching down or offence then it's fine; basically based on your beliefs.

The last thing I would do is call for him to be cancelled. Thats the second point I'm making. He's said something really pretty offensive (and definitely quite snobby) and thats fine. I think he's a knob for it but I defend his right to do it. Others don't, they try to get them taken off bills etc.

That's the root of what we are talking about here. The inconsistency. If those that preach tolerance could show a bit more of it, then that would be a great thing.

---

I didn’t say I had a problem with jokes punching down, I said they had to be good and we’re harder to write.

As always you’ve not read my posts you’ve just put together a response you think fits something in your head.

The problem with comedy like this is taking it out of context of the wider show, Stewart Lee is playing a character the same as almost every stand up comedian. He’s even said he wish he’d given his stand up persona a separate name to stop the confusion. The good thing is he does have very similar political views to this character but wouldn’t express them this way in real life.

The same way al Murray’s pub landlord is a character but people are often too thick to see that he’s taking the piss out of people like that.

You are doing the very thing you are making up that cancel culture is. It’s actually very ironic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

The new wave of British comedy brought humour that wasn't about some Indian bloke down the corner shop , banana boats etc

It's pretty inclusive stuff

It just tends to show up racists , Tories and little englanders

So it's all good

---

Comedy is inclusive because it takes the piss out of everyone without being actually offensive.

Almost every comedian takes the piss out of lefties but the people who are complaining in this thread see nothing out of the 2 minutes clips the dailymail post out of context to rile up the people stupid enough to watch it.

It’s why the Dave Chapelle special went ahead still because seeing something out of context of the show doesn’t work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamesWales

And trumping that..

Stewart Lee, whom I used to really like, and still do like his style. Can you match this smug ignorance?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMvwNkPgwgg

This probably helped his career, yet others are chastised for far worse, and I think that's what grates really, the cutural norms are reflective of a broadly elitist position.

---

Just to highlight how stupid this is Stewart Lee’s whole comedy persona is basically a smug prick. How the **** can you say you like his comedy if you don’t even grasp that?

Quote:

---

Lee's delivery utilises various onstage personae, frequently alternating between that of an outspoken liberal hero and that of a depressed failure and champagne socialist. In an ironic manner, he often criticises the audience for not being intelligent enough to understand his jokes, saying they would prefer more simplistic material,

---

If anything sums up cancel culture and outrage it’s James’s reaction here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Just to highlight how stupid this is Stewart Lee’s whole comedy persona is basically a smug prick. How the **** can you say you like his comedy if you don’t even grasp that?



If anything sums up cancel culture and outrage it’s James’s reaction here.

---

A day ago you were arguing that cancel culture doesn't exist, now it exists, but bizarrely is manifested in me highlighting the hypocrisy of it whilst pointing to a plainly offensive and very bigoted joke and simultaneously arguing that in no way should he be cancelled for it! :shrug:

I do appreciate that like any artist they have a certain on stage persona and I do like Stewart Lee. We both know it isn't comparable to the Pub Landlord mind. I just think its worth you considering that other people absorb that kind of thing (basically being called c**ts by a very privileged and wealthy guy to a room of people laughing) and they manage to not call for him to be cancelled or prevented from working.

If we can apply the same principle across the board then the conversations about cancel culture will all disappear. Basically, within the confines of the law; live and let live

Cancel culture doesn't exist but you whinging about a comedian's routine because you don't realise he's in character is the exact sort of stuff that causes people to think cancel culture exists. The same principle is applied across the board, how many actual comedians have been stopped touring because of a joke they've told?

Listen to any Steward lee interview and he equates himself to the pub landlord and wishes he'd given himself a different stage name so dopes like you would stop pearl clutching.

If I'm honest I don't think you've watched very much stand up comedy or comedy on tv in recent years if you think cancel culture exists for comedians.

Be honest now James are you playing a character on here? because it's too funny otherwise. Youre like this ffs:

Quote:

---

I think comedians should be able to joke about whatever they wants blacks, gays, jews all up for grabs or it's PC gone mad!!!!
B-b-b-but pwease don't make fun of b-b-b-brexit :frown:

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elwood Blues

I would agree she wasn't obliterated. and if he had been a politician he would have expected to be asked questions outside those he had been asked on for. But these sort of interviews are usually meant to promote what the interviewee is doing. Look at the Graham Norton show. I enjoy it mut much of it is just a plug for what the guests are currently doing.



If Tom Cruise was on and Graham suddenly said "Now Tom I would like your views on scientology" he would get very short shrift.

The first general question about cancel culture was probably acceptable.But then she asked a second after which it was pretty obvious he wantd to get the interview back to where it was intended. She didn't take the hint and aslked a third question at w3hich point he quite rightly felt he had had enough.

I don't think he was afraid to develop any question she asked,he just didn't want to. Which is his right.

As he said at one point it is a very complex subject. If the BBC had wanted the interview to be about that they shouild have made it plain before hand

---

It's a trade-off. Celebs and famous people do the media rounds answering the same or silly questions through gritted teeth in order to sell their wares. They don't usually do it for the appearance fee, methinks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I don’t understand what your point is even?

---

I can see that. I'm not sure if its ignorance or purposeful.

They deserved to be punished. But it shows that cancel culture exists, which is my point.

They took it off-air because of what happened, not because people stopped watching.

I'm not that bothered as I agree they deserve to have repercussions for their actions.

veering off slightly, look at what happened when "Life Of Brian" was released.
"It's blasphemous!" - shouted peole who hadn't actually seen it.
"People might be offended" - said people who hadn't asked if any of 'those people' actually WAS offended

veering back towards the main thread - if you can't laugh at yourself, who can you laugh at?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

I can see that. I'm not sure if its ignorance or purposeful.

They deserved to be punished. But it shows that cancel culture exists, which is my point.

They took it off-air because of what happened, not because people stopped watching.

I'm not that bothered as I agree they deserve to have repercussions for their actions.

---

This isn’t what people mean by cancel culture. They mean people being unfairly cancelled for just saying something.

Getting sacked for sexually harassing and raping people isn’t cancel culture ffs it’s just being sacked :hehe:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Cancel culture doesn't exist but you whinging about a comedian's routine because you don't realise he's in character is the exact sort of stuff that causes people to think cancel culture exists. The same principle is applied across the board, how many actual comedians have been stopped touring because of a joke they've told?

Listen to any Steward lee interview and he equates himself to the pub landlord and wishes he'd given himself a different stage name so dopes like you would stop pearl clutching.

If I'm honest I don't think you've watched very much stand up comedy or comedy on tv in recent years if you think cancel culture exists for comedians.

---

Oh and now we are back to cancel culture not existing! 🤣

I think to be honest it's back to my previous point; you don't think it exists because you don't experience it. But others do and others in the industry itself say it is an issue.

Maybe you should listen to them a bit. It's possible you aren't always right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

I can see that. I'm not sure if its ignorance or purposeful.

They deserved to be punished. But it shows that cancel culture exists, which is my point.

They took it off-air because of what happened, not because people stopped watching.

I'm not that bothered as I agree they deserve to have repercussions for their actions.

---

The idea that someone can wank unsolicited in front of women and when they get censured for it that comes under the umbrella "cancel culture" is absolutely ludicrous. Where's the line then? Does Jimmy Saville come under cancel culture? Absolutely ridiculous statement

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

This isn’t what people mean by cancel culture. They mean people being unfairly cancelled for just saying something.

Getting sacked for sexually harassing and raping people isn’t cancel culture ffs it’s just being sacked :hehe:

---

You can't 'sack' a comedian.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by delmbox

The idea that someone can wank unsolicited in front of women and when they get censured for it that comes under the umbrella "cancel culture" is absolutely ludicrous. Where's the line then? Does Jimmy Saville come under cancel culture? Absolutely ridiculous statement

---

Agreed.

Like I said I'm not condoning any actions all I am saying that there IS a line and people are trying to manipulate the line.

My examples are on the extreme side but i'm just giving examples.

Louis CK is still touring. People are still buying his tickets. There would be some that would say that he should never be allowed to tour again. Therefore there is cancel culture whether it's fair or not.