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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cyril evans awaydays
There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Try a new thread!
Do you think you are some kind of gatekeeper or something? Just give it a break.
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
Well I'm talking about the people crossing the channel on boats.
I have no evidence for this but it's possible that young, fighting age men find it easier to flee warzones etc than children and women.
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tito Fuente
I have no evidence for this but it's possible that young, fighting age men find it easier to flee warzones etc than children and women.
So you're just making it then.
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
So you're just making it then.
Yes. I am making it up that young, fighting age men are more physically able to flee violence and threat than women and children during a time of conflict.
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tito Fuente
Yes. I am making it up that young, fighting age men are more physically able to flee violence and threat than women and children during a time of conflict.
It was just a simple observation, not sure why cyril felt the need to control the conversation, or why you would start a sentence with .. I have no evidence for this but ..
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
It was just a simple observation, not sure why cyril felt the need to control the conversation, or why you would start a sentence with .. I have no evidence for this but ..
It was just a simple observation :biggrin:
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
Do you think you are some kind of gatekeeper or something? Just give it a break.
Plenty of jobs at the airports.On the buses etc
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
I find the most narrow minded people to be those who either only read the Daily Mail, or those who insist upon never reading it. Most balanced people will read things from across the spectrum.
Given that the Daily Mail is frequently the newspaper that is fined most often every year for deliberately publishing bullshit, I think I'll give it a miss. Funnily enough the other worst offenders are The Sun and The Express.
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RichardM
Even though EU citizens had to show their passports they were allowed in under the free movement rules.
We didn't have freedom of movement rules. One concession the UK government never made was to allow Schengen.
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
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Originally Posted by
rudy gestede
The reason you can’t get any of that stuff is because of under investment in public services and austerity and stories like this are then used to make people keep voting for the same people who don’t invest in them.
Well done on falling for it hook line and sinker.
Precisely. The UK makes money from immigration but doesn't invest that in areas where immigration causes minor problems with public services.
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
We didn't have freedom of movement rules. One concession the UK government never made was to allow Schengen.
I was under the impression that as an EU citizen I could live or work anywhere in the EU and so could any other EU citizen.
Not signing up to Schengen meant that I had to show my passport when I entered or left the Schengen area, but it didn't restrict my movement within the EU.
Or are you saying that having to show a passport is a restriction of movement?
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RichardM
I was under the impression that as an EU citizen I could live or work anywhere in the EU and so could any other EU citizen.
Not signing up to Schengen meant that I had to show my passport when I entered or left the Schengen area, but it didn't restrict my movement within the EU.
Or are you saying that having to show a passport is a restriction of movement?
You are right. The EU single market allowed free movement of goods, services, capital and people. Schengen allows free movement without restriction of people within that area.
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
I find the most narrow minded people to be those who either only read the Daily Mail, or those who insist upon never reading it. Most balanced people will read things from across the spectrum.
.
You know the CCMB rules, you must have realised one rather high on the list is that you cant list a DM article, The Left simple refuse to believe anything the DM say, yes of course it could be a hard fact, but its in the DM, thus inadmissible on CCMB , its just the way it is
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blue matt
You know the CCMB rules, you must have realised one rather high on the list is that you cant list a DM article, The Left simple refuse to believe anything the DM say, yes of course it could be a hard fact, but its in the DM, thus inadmissible on CCMB , its just the way it is
You can the odd article in the mail is OK but trying to defend it on a general level is pretty daft
It's like a posh version of the sun
You know it supported Hitler during his rise to power ?
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blue matt
You know the CCMB rules, you must have realised one rather high on the list is that you cant list a DM article, The Left simple refuse to believe anything the DM say, yes of course it could be a hard fact, but its in the DM, thus inadmissible on CCMB , its just the way it is
The Daily Mail may report facts now and again, but the articles that get linked to from here are usually bollocks.
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blue matt
You know the CCMB rules, you must have realised one rather high on the list is that you cant list a DM article, The Left simple refuse to believe anything the DM say, yes of course it could be a hard fact, but its in the DM, thus inadmissible on CCMB , its just the way it is
I don’t know if it’s still the case, but there was definitely a time recently when Wikipedia would not accept something appearing in the Daily Mail as a reliable reference to be used on their site. No other mainstream “newspaper” was treated in this way.
For myself, I think their sports coverage is good (For example, transfer speculation in the Mail is more reliable than in most other papers I find), but, as far as life in the “real world” goes, forget it.
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tito Fuente
Yes. I am making it up that young, fighting age men are more physically able to flee violence and threat than women and children during a time of conflict.
Um! Of the 70 or so refugees we currently have all bar one are women & children. The real young men in Ukraine have stayed to do the fighting, rather than flee it.
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Citizen's Nephew
That DM article is as racist as they come (so are the BTL comments generally). It's dangerous, mean-spirited, mis-represented, selective, bigoted racism. Written by a white guy for other white guys.
:thumbup:
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
I like immigrants, but where are all the woman and children? They all seem to be fit young lads of fighting age.
A few things about this Wales-Bales.
Firstly, there are plenty women and children coming to seek asylum in the UK, but this is underreported by the mainstream media a they prefer the optics of 'fit healthy young brown men' claiming asylum... stealing our jobs and women and of course, all of them are terrorists and rapists. Sadly many British people are thick as pigshit and fall for this... this is nothing new it's right out of the Mein Kampf playbook, just replace jews and gypsies with migrants.
However, what is true is that the majority of people coming across the channel in boats are younger men. This is because the route they take is fraught with danger making it difficult for women and children. The UN Refugee Agency estimates that more than 19,000 men, women and children have died while trying to cross the Mediterranean Sea since January 2014, the Med being a key crossing point for many who end up in Calais. So younger men come across and when here try and get the rest of their family across through safer methods.
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
As an aside, this article went under the radar a bit, talking about the problems with offshoring immigration - something Israel tried, and abandoned.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-61882542
Being based in Uganda and the organisation I work for has a big presence in Rwanda, meaning I have visited 10 times over the last decade, I have seen first hand some of the appalling human rights abuses carried out by the Rwandan government. I'm back in Wales next week for the summer, if I bump into any of you I'll tell you some of the details, including snakes in Rwanda, being used.
The UK Government's Rwanda policy is sickening. No one should support it.
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dandywarhol
Plenty of jobs at the airports.On the buses etc
Eg unskilled work and the middle classes wonder why there is a big proportion of poorer people against migration
It dilutes wages at the lower end
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WJ99mobile
Eg unskilled work and the middle classes wonder why there is a big proportion of poorer people against migration
It dilutes wages at the lower end
I think you mean that British workers wouldn't do jobs for the money that migrants get. Subtle but important difference. It's not a case of migrants forcing Brits out of jobs
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WJ99mobile
Eg unskilled work and the middle classes wonder why there is a big proportion of poorer people against migration
It dilutes wages at the lower end
I really think we need drop the term unskilled workers. I’m not picking on you because I used to use the term too. It’s actually quite insulting if you think about it?
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Citizen's Nephew
I really think we need drop the term unskilled workers. I’m not picking on you because I used to use the term too. It’s actually quite insulting if you think about it?
This ^. Funny how all the “unskilled workers” are those that kept the country going through COVID. Working class people have been undervalued for decades. Time to make a stand.
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blue matt
You know the CCMB rules, you must have realised one rather high on the list is that you cant list a DM article, The Left simple refuse to believe anything the DM say, yes of course it could be a hard fact, but its in the DM, thus inadmissible on CCMB , its just the way it is
Thats childish, there is a good and bad reporting in every paper!
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I don’t know if it’s still the case, but there was definitely a time recently when Wikipedia would not accept something appearing in the Daily Mail as a reliable reference to be used on their site. No other mainstream “newspaper” was treated in this way.
For myself, I think their sports coverage is good (For example, transfer speculation in the Mail is more reliable than in most other papers I find), but, as far as life in the “real world” goes, forget it.
Agreed I find the football pretty good!
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AfricanBluebird
A few things about this Wales-Bales.
Firstly, there are plenty women and children coming to seek asylum in the UK, but this is underreported by the mainstream media a they prefer the optics of 'fit healthy young brown men' claiming asylum... stealing our jobs and women and of course, all of them are terrorists and rapists. Sadly many British people are thick as pigshit and fall for this... this is nothing new it's right out of the Mein Kampf playbook, just replace jews and gypsies with migrants.
However, what is true is that the majority of people coming across the channel in boats are younger men. This is because the route they take is fraught with danger making it difficult for women and children. The UN Refugee Agency estimates that more than 19,000 men, women and children have died while trying to cross the Mediterranean Sea since January 2014, the Med being a key crossing point for many who end up in Calais. So younger men come across and when here try and get the rest of their family across through safer methods.
It was women and children from Ukraine
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Des Parrot
Um! Of the 70 or so refugees we currently have all bar one are women & children. The real young men in Ukraine have stayed to do the fighting, rather than flee it.
I think you've misunderstood what I was saying.
I'm talking about the "ability" to flee a conflict.
Martial law was enacted in Ukraine so that men of "fighting age" were required to remain and fight - which is a completely different situation to Syria, Yemen etc.
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AfricanBluebird
A few things about this Wales-Bales.
Firstly, there are plenty women and children coming to seek asylum in the UK, but this is underreported by the mainstream media a they prefer the optics of 'fit healthy young brown men' claiming asylum... stealing our jobs and women and of course, all of them are terrorists and rapists. Sadly many British people are thick as pigshit and fall for this... this is nothing new it's right out of the Mein Kampf playbook, just replace jews and gypsies with migrants.
However, what is true is that the majority of people coming across the channel in boats are younger men. This is because the route they take is fraught with danger making it difficult for women and children. The UN Refugee Agency estimates that more than 19,000 men, women and children have died while trying to cross the Mediterranean Sea since January 2014, the Med being a key crossing point for many who end up in Calais. So younger men come across and when here try and get the rest of their family across through safer methods.
I wasn't thinking along these lines. Besides being fit and healthy young men, they all seem to be well groomed and have decent clobber, along with working mobile phones. They don't look like they have spent months trekking across asia/europe, or been holed up in makeshift French refugee camps for an extended period period of time. Anyway, it's just an observation and nothing to do with race, so I wouldn't read too much into it. I would have thought the same if they were European men.
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
I wasn't thinking along these lines. Besides being fit and healthy young men, they all seem to be well groomed and have decent clobber, along with working mobile phones. They don't look like they have spent months trekking across asia/europe, or been holed up in makeshift French refugee camps in for an experiod period of time. Anyway, it's just an observation and nothing to do with race, so I wouldn't read too much into it. I would have thought the same if they were European men.
The World is changing with more economic migrants, it's likely to increase in the furtre with Wars, Global warming more and more people are moving to the nice safe countries like the UK, the rest of Europe, USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
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Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
The World is changing with more economic migrants, it's likely to get worse with Wars and Global warming more and more people are moving to the nice safe countries like the UK, the rest of Europe and the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.
Yes, but these guys look like they have been assisted and well taken care of. It was just an observation, so I will be leaving it at that.
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
It is huge , of course folk want to say what they really feel , sadly they can't without being judged and abused ..
For me an off shore processing facility that utilised their skills in work to avoid pressure's on the economy.. would fit..
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
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Originally Posted by
life on mars
It is huge , of course folk want to say what they really feel , sadly they can't without being judged and abused ..
For me an off shore processing facility that utilised their skills in work to avoid pressure's on the economy.. would fit..
Just to be clear, have you been holding back on what you really feel on matters of race and immigration?
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
It is huge , of course folk want to say what they really feel , sadly they can't without being judged and abused ..
For me an off shore processing facility that utilised their skills in work to avoid pressure's on the economy.. would fit..
WTF? You were doing so well with your stance on Qatar that I felt it warranted positive feedback.
Unfortunately the use of the term 'off shore processing facility' is cold and invokes images of cattle trucks in black & white documentary footage from the 1940s.
Being judged is part of life. Nobody is being abused. Heated discussion relating to such contentious subjects is understandable. I welcome this, even if it's painful.
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AfricanBluebird
As an aside, this article went under the radar a bit, talking about the problems with offshoring immigration - something Israel tried, and abandoned.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-61882542
Being based in Uganda and the organisation I work for has a big presence in Rwanda, meaning I have visited 10 times over the last decade, I have seen first hand some of the appalling human rights abuses carried out by the Rwandan government. I'm back in Wales next week for the summer, if I bump into any of you I'll tell you some of the details, including snakes in Rwanda, being used.
The UK Government's Rwanda policy is sickening. No one should support it.
Thanks for that AB, always good to hear from someone with direct experience of the issue.
Let's hope certain posters read and digest it rather than relying on certain newspapers - and other posters - to inform themselves.
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Citizen's Nephew
WTF? You were doing so well with your stance on Qatar that I felt it warranted positive feedback.
Unfortunately the use of the term 'off shore processing facility' is cold and invokes images of cattle trucks in black & white documentary footage from the 1940s.
Being judged is part of life. Nobody is being abused. Heated discussion relating to such contentious subjects is understandable. I welcome this, even if it's painful.
It's what they've been doing in Australia, so you don't need to invoke images from the 1940's. In some Asian countries asylum seekers have been waiting over 10 years to be processed, living from day to day without a pot to piss in.
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
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Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
It's what they've been doing in Australia, so you don't need to invoke images from the 1940's. In some Asian countries asylum seekers have been waiting over 10 years to be processed, living from day to day without a pot to piss in.
It can take months or years for claims to be processed in the UK. Asylum seekers get an allowance of £40.85 a week and are not allowed to work.
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
It is huge , of course folk want to say what they really feel , sadly they can't without being judged and abused ..
For me an off shore processing facility that utilised their skills in work to avoid pressure's on the economy.. would fit..
So like a special camp, far away, where they have to work but don't receive basic services or pay in exchange for their efforts?
I can't put my finger on it but it sounds quite familiar.
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Re: There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?
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Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
It's what they've been doing in Australia, so you don't need to invoke images from the 1940's. In some Asian countries asylum seekers have been waiting over 10 years to be processed, living from day to day without a pot to piss in.
An 'offshore processing facility' as opposed to 'being processed'. Neither sound great but I'm still gonna invoke those 1940s images for the former.
