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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
I nodded along with most of your post until the last paragraph. You want moderate politicians? Yet you are probably the most vocal supporter here of Boris Johnson, who expelled 21 moderate conservative MPs shortly after taking power.
Thats one very specific example there, and tbf, I have said on here numerous times I think Boris Johnson should resign - I don't see him as the devil incarnate, which I guess in certain parts of CCMB makes me a vocal supporter..nonetheless, for the sake f moving forward I will accept the charge as I did defend him a lot more than most.
I think what you refer to was back in 2019 and from recollection they wanted to prevent us leaving the EU. They will argue otherwise of course, and say it was about how we left, but fundamentally, I don't believe them, and I don't view anyone who tried to overturn the referendum result as remotely moderate - I view that as an extreme position to take.
The moderate position, the democratic position, was saying that the country has voted and that vote must be respected.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
lardy views anti democratic Europgiles as "moderate" lolz
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lither_1927
Do you think that you can continue avoiding my questions and not look ridiculous?
1. "white men" are clearly not a minority YET. But for some bizarre reason you seem to want "white men" condemned and marginaled for eQuAlItY.
2) The discussion expanded more broadly. So, are you saying we should choose the best man for heart surgery but NOT nessacarily the best man for prime minister? Lolz
1) Not once have I said that but it's good to see you admit that white men are doing just fine.
2) FYI women can be heart surgeons and Prime Ministers too, not hugely surprised that you forgot/couldn't bring yourself to write that)
I've never mentioned heart surgery, but yeah sure if I was having heart surgery I'd want the best person because that's a technical skill so it's easy to quantify who the best person at it is. The best heart surgeon for my transplant is also the best for my neighbour's transplant.
My point is that in terms of leadership the best person for one demographic might not be the best person for another demographic so leadership should be representative of more than one demographic. For some reason you've wet the bed and turned that into Delmbox hates white men despite the fact he is one but you do you
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lither_1927
lardy views anti democratic Europgiles as "moderate" lolz
He's also living the life of Riley in a place where they import cheap labour from India to do all the dirty work, and maids from Indonesia to look after their kids and clean house. And when their contracts are up they get sent back home with no pathway to citizenship.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
1) Not once have I said that but it's good to see you admit that white men are doing just fine.
2) FYI women can be heart surgeons and Prime Ministers too, not hugely surprised that you forgot/couldn't bring yourself to write that)
I've never mentioned heart surgery, but yeah sure if I was having heart surgery I'd want the best person because that's a technical skill so it's easy to quantify who the best person at it is. The best heart surgeon for my transplant is also the best for my neighbour's transplant.
My point is that in terms of leadership the best person for one demographic might not be the best person for another demographic so leadership should be representative of more than one demographic. For some reason you've wet the bed and turned that into Delmbox hates white men despite the fact he is one but you do you
I didn't say white men are doing fine, stop making things up.
"White men" are continually under attack due to critical theory. White working class boys are performing badly yet all people like you discuss is "white men" claiming they have undue "privilege" this stems from critical race theory, the roots of which stem from the Frankfurt school. A group of communists plotting to undermine Europeans and impose communism with the long term goal of slowly infiltrating our institutions. You are an unwitting victim of this.
I haven't forgotten Women, i mentioned them earlier in this thread. I'm responding to you specifically targeting "white men", suggesting they are less suitable for political leadership because they are white men... which is self flagelating nonesense, given that you are a white man. If white men make the best heart surgeons, so be it. Glad we agree on that. Not sure many of your gaurdian readers would agree with you mind.
If one race(demographic) can better represent their own race(demographic) Are you saying that a non white candidate can't be prime minister until the majority of the population are non white? After all the majority of citizens are still white... The majority need the best representation and using your logic that should be a person of the same demographic "race"...so in delmbox's world we have a black prime minister for blacks and a white prime minister for whites. An Asian primeminister for Asians etc
You'll be calling for apartheid next.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lither_1927
I didn't say white men are doing fine, stop making things up.
"White men" are continually under attack due to critical theory. White working class boys are performing badly yet all people like you discuss is "white men" claiming they have undue "privilege" this stems from critical race theory, the roots of which stem from the Frankfurt school. A group of communists plotting to undermine Europeans and impose communism with the long term goal of slowly infiltrating our institutions. You are an unwitting victim of this.
I haven't forgotten Women, i mentioned them earlier in this thread. I'm responding to you specifically targeting "white men", suggesting they are less suitable for political leadership because they are white men... which is self flagelating nonesense, given that you are a white man. If white men make the best heart surgeons, so be it. Glad we agree on that. Not sure many of your gaurdian readers would agree with you mind.
If one race(demographic) can better represent their own race(demographic) Are you saying that a non white candidate can't be prime minister until the majority of the population are non white? After all the majority of citizens are still white... The majority need the best representation and using your logic that should be a person of the same demographic "race"...so in delmbox's world we have a black prime minister for blacks and a white prime minister for whites. An Asian primeminister for Asians etc
You'll be calling for apartheid next.
Oh my God you're ****ing insane, I'm done with answering each question only for you to escalate it into OH SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS when I'm clearly not saying anything of the sort. I've literally said that the leaderSHIP should be representative, not that there should be a different Prime Minister for each demographic. Do I think that Government should be representative of its people? Yes. Do I think that a bunch of rich white guys is the best leadership group for the UK? No. Do I hate white men and think they should't be allowed to do anything? No.
It's as simple as that but I'm done talking to you, I used to think you were racist but this thread has shown you're an absolute moron as well. Life's too short, you're on ignore :music:
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
1) Not once have I said that but it's good to see you admit that white men are doing just fine.
2) FYI women can be heart surgeons and Prime Ministers too, not hugely surprised that you forgot/couldn't bring yourself to write that)
I've never mentioned heart surgery, but yeah sure if I was having heart surgery I'd want the best person because that's a technical skill so it's easy to quantify who the best person at it is. The best heart surgeon for my transplant is also the best for my neighbour's transplant.
My point is that in terms of leadership the best person for one demographic might not be the best person for another demographic so leadership should be representative of more than one demographic. For some reason you've wet the bed and turned that into Delmbox hates white men despite the fact he is one but you do you
In my experience, women are heartbreakers and nothing you say will change that.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
In my experience, women are heartbreakers and nothing you say will change that.
Perhaps for some unexplained reason they didn't share your view that you were having a balanced relationship. Just a thought!
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cyril evans awaydays
Perhaps for some unexplained reason they didn't share your view that you were having a balanced relationship. Just a thought!
I'm only messing cyril. I'm the heartbreaker. I was just trying to shoehorn in a dreadful joke. :ayatollah:
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
I'm only messing cyril. I'm the heartbreaker. I was just trying to shoehorn in a dreadful joke. :ayatollah:
:cry:
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cyril evans awaydays
:cry:
pm me hun
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
pm me hun
Bare my soul to a self-confessed heartbreaker and shit comedian, are you mad?
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cyril evans awaydays
Bare my soul to a self-confessed heartbreaker and shit comedian, are you mad?
Dont say I didnt offer
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
Oh my God you're ****ing insane, I'm done with answering each question only for you to escalate it into OH SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS when I'm clearly not saying anything of the sort. I've literally said that the leaderSHIP should be representative, not that there should be a different Prime Minister for each demographic. Do I think that Government should be representative of its people? Yes. Do I think that a bunch of rich white guys is the best leadership group for the UK? No. Do I hate white men and think they should't be allowed to do anything? No.
It's as simple as that but I'm done talking to you, I used to think you were racist but this thread has shown you're an absolute moron as well. Life's too short, you're on ignore :music:
You haven't blocked me but you have backed yourself into a corner, from which you can't respond.
I'm sorry that i'm taking your political philosophy to it's logical conclusion and asking questions that induce a meltdown. You wrote: "My point is that in terms of leadership the best person for one demographic might not be the best person for another demographic so leadership should be representative of more than one demographic" How the **** can you implement identity politics in a leadership race and have one leader representing every demographic?
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
Oh my God you're ****ing insane, I'm done with answering each question only for you to escalate it into OH SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS when I'm clearly not saying anything of the sort. I've literally said that the leaderSHIP should be representative, not that there should be a different Prime Minister for each demographic. Do I think that Government should be representative of its people? Yes. Do I think that a bunch of rich white guys is the best leadership group for the UK? No. Do I hate white men and think they should't be allowed to do anything? No.
It's as simple as that but I'm done talking to you, I used to think you were racist but this thread has shown you're an absolute moron as well. Life's too short, you're on ignore :music:
Well said.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doucas
Well said.
I think everyone should put Adolf on ignore, I've done it and suddenly everything smells fresher.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
I think everyone should put Adolf on ignore, I've done it and suddenly everything smells fresher.
That's the sort of thing Hitler would do! :biggrin:
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
That's the sort of thing Hitler would do! :biggrin:
Except he didn't actually put me on ignore. He's spoken to me since. Typical Marxist, wants everyone to do something that they won't do themselves. Like paying more tax.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lither_1927
Except he didn't actually put me on ignore. He's spoken to me since. Typical Marxist, wants everyone to do something that they won't do themselves. Like paying more tax.
Do you have any idea what Marxism is? You seem to have tripped over the confused idea of ‘cultural Marxism’ (which has something to do with culture and nothing to do with Marxism) and are now parroting the latest infantile M word abuse line that comes from culture war conservatives and frightened neo Nazis swept up by Trumpism. It is not a good look!
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
It would be useful on both CCMB and every other facet of political debate on planet earth if people could cease labelling anything centre-right as 'far-right' and anything centre-left as 'marxist'
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
It would be useful on both CCMB and every other facet of political debate on planet earth if people could cease labelling anything centre-right as 'far-right' and anything centre-left as 'marxist'
You can be such a lame centrist at times James. No wonder Conservatives keep conceding ground in the culture war. You need to be far more radical, expand your reading.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Do you have any idea what Marxism is? You seem to have tripped over the confused idea of ‘cultural Marxism’ (which has something to do with culture and nothing to do with Marxism) and are now parroting the latest infantile M word abuse line that comes from culture war conservatives and frightened neo Nazis swept up by Trumpism. It is not a good look!
I read a fair bit about cultural marxism, it's roots in the Frankfurt school and Antonio Gramsci et al.
Marxists like higher tax and other top down governmental rules based on equality. But often don't follow these rules themselves. Which is the point i made and nothing you said refuted this.
Trump had potential in an American context but was misguided by Jared Kushner, Sheldon Adelson and other prominant zionists. He was a slave to the Israel lobby, which isn't for me. Bit which modern President hasn't been beholden to the Israel lobby? JFK Maybe? He was mysteriously assassinated....
Having said that about Trump he was the first President in a long time who didn't start a foreign war during his spell in office. Surely you'd applaud that Jon?
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lither_1927
I read a fair bit about cultural marxism, it's roots in the Frankfurt school and Antonio Gramsci et al.
Marxists like higher tax and other top down governmental rules based on equality. But often don't follow these rules themselves. Which is the point i made and nothing you said refuted this.
Trump had potential in an American context but was misguided by Jared Kushner, Sheldon Adelson and other prominant zionists. He was a slave to the Israel lobby, which isn't for me. Bit which modern President hasn't been beholden to the Israel lobby? JFK Maybe? He was mysteriously assassinated....
Having said that about Trump he was the first President in a long time who didn't start a foreign war during his spell in office. Surely you'd applaud that Jon?
Trump tried his best to start a Civil war though.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lither_1927
You can be such a lame centrist at times James. No wonder Conservatives keep conceding ground in the culture war. You need to be far more radical, expand your reading.
I am more than happy being criticised from both sides :thumbup:
I do understand where you are coming from - a lot of increasingly mainstream left-wing opinion does have clear links to Marxism and the need to define and understand everything through class conflict; so it's the police's fault, it's white peoples fault, it's colonialisms fault, it's the rich's fault etc etc. That doesn't mean, just like the preposterous labelling of so many things as 'far right' that it's not overblown.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Sky cancel tonight’s Candidate’s debate after Sunak and Truss pull out of it after concerns were expressed about the damage being done to the party by the two previous ones - what does that say about the Tory “brand” currently?
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Sky cancel tonight’s Candidate’s debate after Sunak and Truss pull out of it after concerns were expressed about the damage being done to the party by the two previous ones - what does that say about the Tory “brand” currently?
Why do they even have televised debates? Hardly any of us can actually vote for them
Although it is funny seeing the very same people in charge of the country for the past decade absolutely trashing it and blaming each other for it. Total self absorbed dumb asses.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lither_1927
I read a fair bit about cultural marxism, it's roots in the Frankfurt school and Antonio Gramsci et al.
Marxists like higher tax and other top down governmental rules based on equality. But often don't follow these rules themselves. Which is the point i made and nothing you said refuted this.
Trump had potential in an American context but was misguided by Jared Kushner, Sheldon Adelson and other prominant zionists. He was a slave to the Israel lobby, which isn't for me. Bit which modern President hasn't been beholden to the Israel lobby? JFK Maybe? He was mysteriously assassinated....
Having said that about Trump he was the first President in a long time who didn't start a foreign war during his spell in office. Surely you'd applaud that Jon?
Being so well read where is the most successful Marxist culture ?
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
Why do they even have televised debates? Hardly any of us can actually vote for them
Although it is funny seeing the very same people in charge of the country for the past decade absolutely trashing it and blaming each other for it. Total self absorbed dumb asses.
But isn't that a good thing , getting to see what folk say and can do in debate and under pressure , these types of debate go on in all parties were they try sell , buy or secretly fix their leadership bid ..
At least were getting transparency of what they think and who they are .
I don't think they are dumb arsed either I' d not do their job or one of the opposition .
Hugely diverse candidates ( Labour please note there are women out there and black candidates )
It was great to see 3 woman of of which Kemi Badenoch is some prospect and would strike fear into Labour.
One white male Thom Tugendhat who reminded me of a centralists Nick Clegg .
We had Rishi Sunak who is a thinker and a socialist type chancellor .
Penny Mordant speaks very well and its not all about me ,the party faithful lover her .
Then Truss , who I think speered Rishi last night , who would have though she was from parents who were left of Labour , I think makes her a better straight talker , yes she not appealing , to listen or look at , seems geeky at and as she said in not as slick as others lol , I thought she was the better of a strange bunch last night , not an Eton type , came form fairly ordinary school background .
Truss may now win this ................
Bring back Boris I hear you all shout ......
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
But isn't that a good thing , getting to see what folk say and can do in debate and under pressure , these types of debate go on in all parties were they try sell , buy or secretly fix their leadership bid ..
At least were getting transparency of what they think and who they are .
I don't think they are dumb arsed either I' d not do their job or one of the opposition .
Hugely diverse candidates ( Labour please note there are women out there and black candidates )
It was great to see 3 woman of of which Kemi Badenoch is some prospect and would strike fear into Labour.
One white male Thom Tugendhat who reminded me of a centralists Nick Clegg .
We had Rishi Sunak who is a thinker and a socialist type chancellor .
Penny Mordant speaks very well and its not all about me ,the party faithful lover her .
Then Truss , who I think speered Rishi last night , who would have though she was from parents who were left of Labour , I think makes her a better straight talker , yes she not appealing , to listen or look at , seems geeky at and as she said in not as slick as others lol , I thought she was the better of a strange bunch last night , not an Eton type , came form fairly ordinary school background .
Truss may now win this ................
Bring back Boris I hear you all shout ......
“Truss may now win this…………………”, well this is the electorate that gave us May and Johnson, so, clearly, anything’s possible.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
“Truss may now win this…………………”, well this is the electorate that gave us May and Johnson, so, clearly, anything’s possible.
Sadly its not the electorate that decides this , mind you parties are renowned for not knowing what the electorate want to see and that goes for all parties in the past ..
I'd vote for Kemi Badenoch
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Sadly its not the electorate that decides this , mind you parties are renowned for not knowing what the electorate want to see and that goes for all parties in the past ..
I'd vote for Kemi Badenoch
Even when the electorate do vote for something, there are still people who dismiss it of course..
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
“Truss may now win this…………………”, well this is the electorate that gave us May and Johnson, so, clearly, anything’s possible.
Any of the other four woiuld be prefereable to Truss!!
Unfortunately I think it will be her because she will probably pick up most of the Braverman votes and most of the Badenoch votes when (if?)she goes.
If Truss had been as bad as she was in the 1st debate yesterday, I think a number of her votes would have moved to Badenocn, but she was better( though not brilliant) so she may have saved herself.
We will lnow more after the ballot today. If Mordaunt hasn't picked up most of Tom Tugendhats vote and if Truss remains the same distance ahead of Badenoch then Truss looks like the favourite to be in the top two after this week's third ballot
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elwood Blues
Any of the other four woiuld be prefereable to Truss!!
Unfortunately I think it will be her because she will probably pick up most of the Braverman votes and most of the Badenoch votes when (if?)she goes.
If Truss had been as bad as she was in the 1st debate yesterday, I think a number of her votes would have moved to Badenocn, but she was better( though not brilliant) so she may have saved herself.
We will lnow more after the ballot today. If Mordaunt hasn't picked up most of Tom Tugendhats vote and if Truss remains the same distance ahead of Badenoch then Truss looks like the favourite to be in the top two after this week's third ballot
Seems Liz has got to Rishi they have pulled out of tonight's debate,he looked very uncomfortable last night after Truss went for him ??
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Who could have predicted that the two candidates best placed for the last two with the most to lose would be the ones to pull out of the debate. Seems like they have inherited Johnson's fritness.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cyril evans awaydays
Who could have predicted that the two candidates best placed for the last two with the most to lose would be the ones to pull out of the debate. Seems like they have inherited Johnson's fritness.
I'm sure Truss will sit for just as many press interviews as Johnson did in his leadership campaign.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Sunak came over as the Head Boy
Truss as the spiteful gang leader
Tugendhat as the boy whose face betrays that he ate the last cookie in the tuck shop jar
Mordaunt as the sexiest girl in the class who doesn't need to impress with her intellect and
Badenock as the likable girl next door.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
It's a little OTT that, a bit of a hatchet job. Nearly every politician tries to play up how ordinary their background or current lives are - that's par for the course. Indeed, par for society really.
Leeds North East is part of the red-wall and she did grow up there.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
It's a little OTT that, a bit of a hatchet job. Nearly every politician tries to play up how ordinary their background or current lives are - that's par for the course. Indeed, par for society really.
Leeds North East is part of the red-wall and she did grow up there.
Unfortunately, The Guardian is as predictable as the Daily Mail.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
Unfortunately, The Guardian is as predictable as the Daily Mail.
Absolutely. Just give the readers what they want. As I've always said, I don't read one without the other and the truth will lie somewhere between the two.
