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or maybe the left understand the situation just as well as you do, but they have a difference of opinion on how to solve the issue and just how serious theissue is to the UK.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
You're all about differing opinions - amirite?
Of course, that goes without saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by DryCleaning
If someone says something on an internet forum it is an opinion, not a statement of fact.
Nonetheless, I do think there was a naivity. Hiding behind the 'everyone is a desperate refugee' etc etc does create a culture where people can (and seemingly have) exploited it.
Of course, 'the right' can be excused of being heartless too. But on this occasion I think there has been a naivity.
Or the left see lots of vote potential?? Let's hope there desire and motivations are right sadly I have my doubts , I do think they see votes in metropolitan high density areas .. not easy to find that is so .Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Saw some dubious material posted in a recent by election with a large Muslim population, of Boris shaking hands with the Indian prime minister ( why was that ? )
Of course. But we also have bad laws and we have poor interpretations of the law. And if it means almost anyone can claim asylum, the process takes a great many months, it can be exploited by criminal gangs and is all funded by a taxpayer, many of whom can barely feed themselves, then people have a right to be miffed about the system.Quote:
Originally Posted by DryCleaning
This stock answer of 'its the law, thats fine!' is not what people say when it goes the other way.
I think sooner or later politicians will wake up to the realisation that the solutions (and maybe only with limited results) to this problem are only found with global cooperation. I don't think any one country can both effectively and humanely resolve the issue.
I think it would also be a massive help if politicians of all hues stop treating this issue as a political football and start levelling up with people and collectively begin a process of public education with the aim of dampening the hostile discourse.
I think it's more a case of being absolutely blindsided by the whole identity politics / race debate, so any criticism of things like immigration levels or asylum processes is seen as racism.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Now don't get me wrong, often the criticism is based on that, which is plainly wrong, but it's also possible that the processes in place, no matter how sensitive, can break down, fail, be exploited or abused etc.
It's similar to the mermaids charity, where any criticism was labelled as transphobic etc, and that provides cover for all kinds of bad processes. Likewise, grooming gangs where people kept quiet for fear of being labelled racist.
We need to move on from this kind of thing, it's a real curse IMO
You must be the only person not currently aware of this. Type 'Albanian drug gangs UK' into Google. The list is endless.Quote:
Originally Posted by DryCleaning
Nope - its common knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Claude Blue
What can happen when the right start culture wars about immigration.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-63526659
No thats what happens when you ignore issues Bob.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
No, that’s what happen when immigration is treated in the manner the UK Government, certain newspapers and broadcast outlets treat it. Immigration only becomes an issue when right wing politicians and media people want it to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Once again, you just lazily equate anyone with a different opinion to yours on this subject with being in favour of an immigration freefor all. Also, before you ask, I don’t have an easy answer to the problem because there isn’t one, but what I do know is that expensive gimmicks like the Rwanda one are not the answer, they’re merely weapons in the culture war theGovernment wants to fight.
I'm not sure what you are saying?Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
You are implying that some terrorist acted because 'the right' made a 'culture war' of this. I would cast doubt on that. I'd say it happened because nothing has been done about what now seems to be a mass exploitation of the system.
What you are saying is no different to people who equated the murder of Davied Amess with Angela Rayner calling people 'Tory Scum' at the conference a short while before.
These things are far more complex as you know. You can't just label everything a 'culture war'. As I said before, if anyone is guilty of that, it's those that hide behind accusations of racism / xenophobia etc as a means to do nothing about it.
We've all known for months and months that something was going wrong. Was Rwanda an expensive gimmick? I dunno. Maybe it would have served as a real deterrent and not led to costs being as high as £7m a day. Who knows. That was it's intention - to smash the business model, not to send thousands to Rwanda, but to prevent there being thousands of dubious claims in the first place. What was she labelled for it? Evil bitch and the rest, with no alternatives given.
It's that policy vacuum that gives extremists (which DO exist unfortunately) the space to operate.
And immigration was an issue for years and years - again, people ignored it. Hoped it would go away, and then Brexit happened.
We cannot keep ignoring issues and hope they disappear. The current situation has been obvious since last summer at least.
Well said. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, we had the same rhetoric from the right regarding the unemployed, disabled and vulnerable for years which caused untold damage to the lives of people within those demographics.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
I'd be interested to know why the influx of these foreign nationals troubles you so. How do you think it would affect you adversely?Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Have you read some of the stuff the guy put online? It struck me that he was very poorly educated, likely had additional untreated needs, lonely (/living in his own world), he is absolutely the perfect target to be 'radicalised' and the right wing press have stepped over the line many times in that regard, stoking up hate around this issue over the years. He certainly wasn't somebody making an informed rational decision who decided one day 'not enough is being done to address this issue'.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Attachment 5290
Why bother debating. This is the person who said gammon was a racist term, GB news isn't right wing and that nobody in the UK wants to stop all immigration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman
All of which highlights the position that he comes at these arguments from. He seems to think that you have to have people strutting about in uniforms with swastikas on them before they qualify as being far right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doucas
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...pire-far-right
Bloody lefty lawyers.
Asylum seekers or thier sons have bombed for decades ,the dead relatives of those atrocities will tell you that .. bugger all to do with government rhetoric its religious extremists same in France .
Thousands of Albanians have arrived (young nen ) they are known for drug and gang related offences in all the big cities.. some even traffic young children ..into dreadful conditions and use..
Why we should apologise to illegal folk arriving and not getting automatic hotel stays is maddness..
We should set up a support system and all those sympathetic on those board who have a spare room step forward instead of throwing out defence statements because they hate the Tories and think its a vote winner ..
Two things that should not be politised NHS and Immigration.
Bet Sir Bier enjoys this bashing over these issues as his end game is equally poor .. to use it as a tool .. asit is people's lives at risk.. and our country when the next attrocity happens.
Can anyone translate into English? :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Something about it being Labour's fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by Claude Blue
Perhaps he should stick to copying and pasting.Quote:
Originally Posted by lardy
Denmark keen on Rwanda soultion ,perhaps Labour should back government on this idea ..
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/new...sylum-seekers/
Or perhaps they shouldn’t.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
I know nuance isn't your cup of tea but there is a big difference between our 'rwanda deal' and their proposed 'rwanda deal'Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Theirs involves the transfer of illegal arrivals for processing, with the prospect of resettlement in Denmark if they meet the criteria for asylum.
Ours invalidates their right to settlement in the UK even if they fully meet the criteria for asylum BECAUSE they entered illegally.
I don't think either plan is particularly moral or practical but theirs at least complies with international law.
It's actually one of his better written rants. Complete nonsense of course but I can for once make out what he is trying to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Claude Blue
'Stop politicising this issue', proceeds to politicise it in the next sentence. :hehe:
This article by the author Tony Parsons is absolutely on the money for me. Agree with almost every word. And there is a nice photo of Pamela Anderson in there too.
This it struck me: "But the current system is not working and if the numbers are not controlled, the UK will be a far uglier, less welcoming country than it was before."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/203348...c_article=true
James if that pile of shit resonates with you then I feel sorry for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
12 years of Tory government and it's always someone else's fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by lardy
Typical Sun dog whistling. Nothing remotely helpful in that article.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
It's f*cking people, newspapers and articles like that which stirs trouble. In fact, you're doing it by proxy.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Two stock responses to that article.
1 - Criticise the messenger (in this case me, or Tony Parsons / The Sun however you look at it)
2 - Zero response to the issues raised within it.
Thats what I mean by the left kinda ignoring the issues and letting them fester.
These issues still exist whoever is in power.
And one stock response from you every time.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Mate that article is absolute rubbish. No answers, dominated by 'labour would do worse', conflating about 5 different issues in one and reaching no conclusions.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Also he seems to think the Rwanda policy won't work, have you changed your mind?
No it isn't. You haven't addressed the issues in the article. If you had I wouldnt have said that, would I?Quote:
Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew
I'm aware of the reports. If its so prevalent and easy to see then you have to ask why the police do nothing about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by tforturton
"But this is the greatest country in the world, ......Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Because if you were living in Albania or the EU, then you would probably want to live here too".
Tells us all we need to know. About the article, the target audience, and about you.
Yes it is....we can do this all day.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
BTW...I read a couple of books of his years ago now. Can't remember a thing about them but now I see what he's turned into and who he's prostituting himself to, it makes me feel grubby.
He answered an advert in the NME for “hip young gunslingers” in the 70s and look what he is now - I can’t call him Tory gammon on here these days can I, but…..Quote:
Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew
Posting an article by a novelist that raises many of the legitimate issues that many of you refuse to acknowledge tells you all you need to know about me?Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiss Peter
Give it a rest - if you judge someone like that Peter, it is you we have learnt more about, not me. You know nothing about me whatsoever, or the issues and problems in my life.
I could make assumptions about you given that you dismiss all the issues raised - Shall I do that?