The truth about Matt Hancock

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

Just looking at the data presented which doesn’t differentiate from overweight and obese. It’s woth reiterating (again) 2020 data was before vaccination rollout

Clearly Covid was minimal risk to healthy people which is the whole justification of the original thread.

With regards to 2/3rds of adults being overweight and obese why were fitness establishments closed and fast food joints open ?

Where was the drive to fitness and well-being and healthy eating ? Instead they locked these people away.

Just stating facts.

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I can't wait for the climate shenanigans to kick in, the same people are going to be all over it.

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

Clearly Covid was minimal risk to healthy people which is the whole justification of the original thread.

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And I’m asking what is counted as “healthy”?

How many people in the UK had this 1 in 550,000 chance of dying? Was it 30million people? Or 5million? Or 300,000?

It’s not as high as 550,000 as the data was not for a calendar year, as pointed out by Cyril , that said deaths involved “just Covid” is very low considering the measures undertaken and excess deaths not involving Covid will far outweigh the lives saved during lockdown


Excess deaths continue to rise - In the past 28 weeks we have had 15,195 more deaths than we would expect for the time of year if the chance of dying was the same as pre-pandemic.
https://twitter.com/statsjamie/statu...3fpwSaYgoYdmZg

This link may be of better use

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...eviousReleases

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

It’s not as high as 550,000 as the data was not for a calendar year, as pointed out by Cyril , that said deaths involved “just Covid” is very low considering the measures undertaken and excess deaths not involving Covid will far outweigh the lives saved during lockdown


Excess deaths continue to rise - In the past 28 weeks we have had 15,195 more deaths than we would expect for the time of year if the chance of dying was the same as pre-pandemic.
https://twitter.com/statsjamie/statu...3fpwSaYgoYdmZg

This link may be of better use

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...eviousReleases

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So apart from the timeframe, the use of the wrong comparative populations, the failure to factor in the impact of preventative measures and the erroneous comparison with deaths by dog mauling we clearly don't understand data.

Still you got a big smiley from your chum so its all been worth it I suppose!

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

So apart from the timeframe, the use of the wrong comparative populations, the failure to factor in the impact of preventative measures and the erroneous comparison with deaths by dog mauling we clearly don't understand data.

Still you got a big smiley from your chum so its all been worth it I suppose!

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I misread the data as I was on a cell phone , furthermore, even when the data is corrected , it’s still extremely low risk, and if you manipulate the dog death data , you’re still more at risk from a dog attack, which must be horrific.

Now, I appreciate you probably in the higher risk group, but I’m not and neither are millions of others.

If anything like this happens again, I doubt they will do the same, however
no doubt, there will be selfish people, ( in my opinion ) who advocate it.

What’s you view on the links posted from Twitter , (excess deaths)I think it’s extremely worrying ?

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

I misread the data as I was on a cell phone , furthermore, even when the data is corrected , it’s still extremely low risk, and if you manipulate the dog death data , you’re still more at risk from a dog attack, which must be horrific.

Now, I appreciate you probably in the higher risk group, but I’m not and neither are millions of others.

If anything like this happens again, I doubt they will do the same, however
no doubt, there will be selfish people, ( in my opinion ) who advocate it.

What’s you view on the links posted from Twitter , (excess deaths)I think it’s extremely worrying ?

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How can someone be completely blasé about covid deaths and yet extremely worried about excess deaths?

Reading through that twitter thread, it looks like the author is blaming the state of the healthcare service for the increase.

What I like about the pandemic diaries they are actual facts and give us much need insight

Royalties from this book are going to NHS charities, which I suppose is a gesture.’

Wonder how many of us would have done a better job and had a secret snog in the office ??

I think the man was used as useful patsy , and folks love to have a go at those in society who have an nasty view of unappealing personalities like him .

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Originally Posted by lardy

How can someone be completely blasé about covid deaths and yet extremely worried about excess deaths?

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I’m not blasé at all, I’ve always said the policy should have been to provide protection to the vulnerable.

In conclusion, that’s the policy they should have taken in this country

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

I misread the data as I was on a cell phone , furthermore, even when the data is corrected , it’s still extremely low risk, and if you manipulate the dog death data , you’re still more at risk from a dog attack, which must be horrific.

Now, I appreciate you probably in the higher risk group, but I’m not and neither are millions of others.

If anything like this happens again, I doubt they will do the same, however
no doubt, there will be selfish people, ( in my opinion ) who advocate it.

What’s you view on the links posted from Twitter , (excess deaths)I think it’s extremely worrying ?

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It's like you can't stop digging. According to this two people were killed by dogs in the whole of 2020. Talk us through how you got to the relative risk calculation?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...United_Kingdom

On the excess deaths, as Lardy points out these are likely to be the same people with underlying conditions who you would have happily quarantined. The same people who would have found it far more difficult to access planned or acute medical treatment if more and more "healthy" people began clogging up the health system because for every dead "healthy" person there would be x times more requiring hospital treatment before recovering.

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

It's like you can't stop digging. According to this two people were killed by dogs in the whole of 2020. Talk us through how you got to the relative risk calculation?

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Who let the dogs out?

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

It's like you can't stop digging. According to this two people were killed by dogs in the whole of 2020. Talk us through how you got to the relative risk calculation?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...United_Kingdom

On the excess deaths, as Lardy points out these are likely to be the same people with underlying conditions who you would have happily quarantined. The same people who would have found it far more difficult to access planned or acute medical treatment if more and more "healthy" people began clogging up the health system because for every dead "healthy" person there would be x times more requiring hospital treatment before recovering.

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Which was the entire point of lockdowns, vaccines and masks, and now we've come full circle.

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

I’m not blasé at all, I’ve always said the policy should have been to provide protection to the vulnerable.

In conclusion, that’s the policy they should have taken in this country

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Most people would agree , one of my grandchildren has had big problems adapting to high school , he wants to say in not go out he is a change lad ,he was a good achiever before Covid ..

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Originally Posted by life on mars

What I like about the pandemic diaries they are actual facts and give us much need insight

Royalties from this book are going to NHS charities, which I suppose is a gesture.’

Wonder how many of us would have done a better job and had a secret snog in the office ??

I think the man was used as useful patsy , and folks love to have a go at those in society who have an nasty view of unappealing personalities like him .

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Well done you for buying it and digesting it so quickly. Which actual facts were you most impressed by?

Great to see that you share the same views on royalties as Katherine Forster of GB News.

'His royalties from this book are going to NHS charities, which I suppose is a gesture.' GB News Political Reporter, Katherine Forster, .

Not sure on the secret snog point. Perhaps the more circumspect would have looked for security cameras first.

If I understand your last point. There are folk who like nothing more than calling out those who dislike unappealing people. I hold my hand up to disliking unappealing people so where do you stand on the people who call me out because of it?

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

It's like you can't stop digging. According to this two people were killed by dogs in the whole of 2020. Talk us through how you got to the relative risk calculation?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...United_Kingdom

On the excess deaths, as Lardy points out these are likely to be the same people with underlying conditions who you would have happily quarantined. The same people who would have found it far more difficult to access planned or acute medical treatment if more and more "healthy" people began clogging up the health system because for every dead "healthy" person there would be x times more requiring hospital treatment before recovering.

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Wikipedia, that’s fully paid up by the narrative pushers my friend. Excess deaths appear to be in the non risk groups.

Have a listen to this
https://twitter.com/talktv/status/15...UorTUVk0j640Dg

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

Wikipedia, that’s fully paid up by the narrative pushers my friend. Excess deaths appear to be in the non risk groups.

Have a listen to this
https://twitter.com/talktv/status/15...UorTUVk0j640Dg

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You have an alternative source showing thousands of deaths in 2020 as a result of dangerous dogs. Feel free to share.

Please the dog comparison has to stop.🤣🤣🤣

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

You have an alternative source showing thousands of deaths in 2020 as a result of dangerous dogs. Feel free to share.

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You know what I mean , granted it wasn’t the best comparison, but a healthy person has more risks of dying from many obscure accidents than Covid, the ONS data is clear on that

Seen the latest debate in Parliament?

Ignored the debate on talk radio I see

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

You know what I mean , granted it wasn’t the best comparison, but a healthy person has more risks of dying from many obscure accidents than Covid, the ONS data is clear on that

Seen the latest debate in Parliament?

Ignored the debate on talk radio I see

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Perhaps if you weren't too busy ridiculing people for failing to understand data and statistics whilst clearly doing so yourself you may have had a more sensible discussion.

Anyway. On the subject of statistics there is an excellent weekly synopsis of excess deaths here. It tracks the path from the outbreak of covid to the present.

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrI...Y2NiIsImMiOjh9

You can use the drop down features to analyse by age, region, type of disease etc. Could come in really handy next time you want to make a point.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

What I like about the pandemic diaries they are actual facts and give us much need insight

Royalties from this book are going to NHS charities, which I suppose is a gesture.’

Wonder how many of us would have done a better job and had a secret snog in the office ??

I think the man was used as useful patsy , and folks love to have a go at those in society who have an nasty view of unappealing personalities like him .

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Here's someone else who has read the Hancock stocking-filler from cover to cover:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...arvellous-i-am

It's a better review!

Digested read, digested: The Secret Diary of Door Matt Hancock, Aged 42¾

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

Perhaps if you weren't too busy ridiculing people for failing to understand data and statistics whilst clearly doing so yourself you may have had a more sensible discussion.

Anyway. On the subject of statistics there is an excellent weekly synopsis of excess deaths here. It tracks the path from the outbreak of covid to the present.





https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrI...Y2NiIsImMiOjh9

You can use the drop down features to analyse by age, region, type of disease etc. Could come in really handy next time you want to make a point.

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I’ve made my point the only issue was that I didn’t realise the data was quarterly, that being said from the ONS data , the deaths look no different to a moderately bad flu year.

The excess deaths chart is interesting, thanks for posting I’ll have a look at it in detail

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

Well done you for buying it and digesting it so quickly. Which actual facts were you most impressed by?

Great to see that you share the same views on royalties as Katherine Forster of GB News.

'His royalties from this book are going to NHS charities, which I suppose is a gesture.' GB News Political Reporter, Katherine Forster, . Answer I don't share her views I simply googled did Hancock giver to charities ?? copy and paast bang , are you now saying he didn't give to charity because Mss Forster said it

Not sure on the secret snog point. Perhaps the more circumspect would have looked for security cameras first.

Answer :up until the sting , the camera in question was never on hence them taking the risk ,you may hate them but they are not that stupid ,if it was me under all that pressure day in day out I would have sought solace or a break in drink , snort or shagging

If I understand your last point. There are folk who like nothing more than calling out those who dislike unappealing people. I hold my hand up to disliking unappealing people so where do you stand on the people who call me out because of it?

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Answer: no better or worse than folk who don't give a feck , I find telling folk straight to their face what I believe and if they hate me hey ho .. I would not insult or badger someone from afar though ..

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Answer: no better or worse than folk who don't give a feck , I find telling folk straight to their face what I believe and if they hate me hey ho .. I would not insult or badger someone from afar though ..

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What, you've never insulted anyone on here?

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Originally Posted by Hilts

Please the dog comparison has to stop.🤣🤣🤣

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Maybe we should look at horses. TWGL1 has had a mare in this thread.

Not at all, the link is for 6 months , Jan - June 2020 , so whist I agree it was originally incorrect is still six months

England and Wales Persons 0-44 No pre-existing condition 101
England and Wales Persons 45-49 No pre-existing condition 91
England and Wales Persons 50-54 No pre-existing condition 123
England and Wales Persons 55-59 No pre-existing condition 227

Now, unless I’m missing something they are hardly reflective of the biggest pandemic since 1918, and certainly no requirement to lockdown the healthy and young.

What’s the England Wales population for that age group …. At least 50 million

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

Not at all, the link is for 6 months , Jan - June 2020 , so whist I agree it was originally incorrect is still six months

England and Wales Persons 0-44 No pre-existing condition 101
England and Wales Persons 45-49 No pre-existing condition 91
England and Wales Persons 50-54 No pre-existing condition 123
England and Wales Persons 55-59 No pre-existing condition 227

Now, unless I’m missing something they are hardly reflective of the biggest pandemic since 1918, and certainly no requirement to lockdown the healthy and young.

What’s the England Wales population for that age group …. At least 50 million

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The requirement to lockdown the healthy and young was a measure to stop.the spread of the virus and thus prevent the NHS being overwhelmed. Simples!!!

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

The requirement to lockdown the healthy and young was a measure to stop.the spread of the virus and thus prevent the NHS being overwhelmed. Simples!!!

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We know that don’t we …. The impact of that decision has been catastrophic in respect of mental health, delayed operations , JoB loSses, education, Childrens wellbeing, court case backlogs , etc etc ….. Simple’s !!!

You wouldn’t give fcuk about that though

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

The requirement to lockdown the healthy and young was a measure to stop.the spread of the virus and thus prevent the NHS being overwhelmed. Simples!!!

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Yep. Operations were being cancelled as there were no beds.

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

Not at all, the link is for 6 months , Jan - June 2020 , so whist I agree it was originally incorrect is still six months

England and Wales Persons 0-44 No pre-existing condition 101
England and Wales Persons 45-49 No pre-existing condition 91
England and Wales Persons 50-54 No pre-existing condition 123
England and Wales Persons 55-59 No pre-existing condition 227

Now, unless I’m missing something they are hardly reflective of the biggest pandemic since 1918, and certainly no requirement to lockdown the healthy and young.

What’s the England Wales population for that age group …. At least 50 million

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Its a lot less than 50m. Plus you factor in the clinically vulnerable in that group.

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

Not at all, the link is for 6 months , Jan - June 2020 , so whist I agree it was originally incorrect is still six months

England and Wales Persons 0-44 No pre-existing condition 101
England and Wales Persons 45-49 No pre-existing condition 91
England and Wales Persons 50-54 No pre-existing condition 123
England and Wales Persons 55-59 No pre-existing condition 227

Now, unless I’m missing something they are hardly reflective of the biggest pandemic since 1918, and certainly no requirement to lockdown the healthy and young.

What’s the England Wales population for that age group …. At least 50 million

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Total Population England and Wales 0-60 according to ONS 45m
Total People in that Group With Pre-Existing Conditions Not Known
Total People Aged 0-59 Died with no pre-existing conditions in the first 4 months of the Pandemic 542
Total People Aged 0-59 Died with no pre-existing conditions that didn't do so because of lockdown etc Not Known
Total People with pre-existing conditions that didn't die because of contact with a healthy covid carrier Not Known

Total Population England and Wales 0-60 according to ONS 45m
Total Number of People killed by dogs in England and Wales in the whole of 2020 2

Take the spade out of your hand ffs!

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

Total Population England and Wales 0-60 according to ONS 45m
Total People in that Group With Pre-Existing Conditions Not Known
Total People Aged 0-59 Died with no pre-existing conditions in the first 4 months of the Pandemic 542
Total People Aged 0-59 Died with no pre-existing conditions that didn't do so because of lockdown etc Not Known
Total People with pre-existing conditions that didn't die because of contact with a healthy covid carrier Not Known

Total Population England and Wales 0-60 according to ONS 45m
Total Number of People killed by dogs in England and Wales in the whole of 2020 2

Take the spade out of your hand ffs!

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Still tiny amounts though , ,probably less than the usual flu season ( dogs 🐕 excluded :hehe:)

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

We know that don’t we …. The impact of that decision has been catastrophic in respect of mental health, delayed operations , JoB loSses, education, Childrens wellbeing, court case backlogs , etc etc ….. Simple’s !!!

You wouldn’t give fcuk about that though

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No I do give a fcuk but life's not perfect. Anyway I'm glad I'm not obsessed.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

Yep. Operations were being cancelled as there were no beds.

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Who told you that?