Medieval pantomime a right embarrassment on the world stage

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Originally Posted by lincoln blue

Absolutey I'll second that.
What brought a tear to my eye today were our boys and girls, men and women, of the armed forces and voluntary services. What a spectacle, these are the true representatives of what's good in British Society.
So proud of these young ones and we can all sleep well at night, safe in the knowledge that they will be there to protect us if they were ever needed and not the likes of the "fat thumb brigade" on here and similar sites.

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You had a tear in your eye today ?

Tell me you are joking

Yes for the superb display of our armed forces and others.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

By convention that is right - but as many Tony Benn road shows explained, it is not the whole story.

They still have a very powerful residual role and no primary legislation can be enacted without the assent of the sovereign. The monarchy still has a lot of power that they choose not to exercise (or test).

For me the ceremonial role is bad enough - enshrining inherited wealth and power, popular subservience, and archaic and expensive ritual - where none of that should be present in a modern, self-confident, democracy.

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I think we all know in practice that their role is entirely ceremonial. I would argue they add to our soft power abroad and I guess it would be naive to pretend that they have zero power here; they are part of civic society which all govts must keep on board. In practice I would say their influence on domestic policy is nothing compared to the civil service or religious leaders.

One could even argue that their apolitical status aids the executive as they don't present a threat where in other countries a political head of state who is different to the head of the govt may well do.

Certainly since WW2 we have seen extraordinary ranges of govt policy so I don't think the royals prevented any of that.

Nonetheless, I do remain uncomfortable with the fact that our head of state, symbolic as they may be, is unelected. I guess I view the positives as outweighing that. I accept some of the negatives you present but I think they are outweighed by the stability, sense of permanence, service and continuity that they provide.

What gets my goat is what I interpret as snooty jibes by a small minority against anyone who is supportive of it or dares to enjoy the ceremony.

The world is full of gloom and ceremonies of all kinds help to break that. There is nothing wrong with it in my opinion.

Wales was conquered by England in 1283,the English king now rules Wales. The ceremony today took place in the church of England which was set up by a mass murderer and rapist Henry the eighth.
Makes me ****ing laugh.

If we were to have a vote on a king and queen would the these muppets even get on the ballot paper ?

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Originally Posted by lincoln blue

Yes for the superb display of our armed forces and others.

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I cried when I lost my parents

But watching a coronation ?

I think that's very odd

The armed forces are what they are

They are doing their job and they get paid for it

They are not brain surgeons saving kids lives

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I cried when I lost my parents

But watching a coronation ?

I think that's very odd

The armed forces are what they are

They are doing their job and they get paid for it

They are not brain surgeons saving kids lives

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Each to their own though Sludge. Just like people who wish to vote Tory

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I think we all know in practice that their role is entirely ceremonial. I would argue they add to our soft power abroad and I guess it would be naive to pretend that they have zero power here; they are part of civic society which all govts must keep on board. In practice I would say their influence on domestic policy is nothing compared to the civil service or religious leaders.

One could even argue that their apolitical status aids the executive as they don't present a threat where in other countries a political head of state who is different to the head of the govt may well do.

Certainly since WW2 we have seen extraordinary ranges of govt policy so I don't think the royals prevented any of that.

Nonetheless, I do remain uncomfortable with the fact that our head of state, symbolic as they may be, is unelected. I guess I view the positives as outweighing that. I accept some of the negatives you present but I think they are outweighed by the stability, sense of permanence, service and continuity that they provide.

What gets my goat is what I interpret as snooty jibes by a small minority against anyone who is supportive of it or dares to enjoy the ceremony.

The world is full of gloom and ceremonies of all kinds help to break that. There is nothing wrong with it in my opinion.

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Stability my arse

How does the coronation today improve the lives , in any way of the homeless , those struggling with the cost of living crisis and a whole host of other important issues ?

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

Each to their own though Sludge. Just like people who wish to vote Tory

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I accept the right of people to cry at a royal wedding or coronation and reserve my right to take the piss out of them

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Stability my arse

How does the coronation today improve the lives , in any way of the homeless , those struggling with the cost of living crisis and a whole host of other important issues ?

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well said :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Stability my arse

How does the coronation today improve the lives , in any way of the homeless , those struggling with the cost of living crisis and a whole host of other important issues ?

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Do you think the billions wasted in the last few years has helped with these issues , the money spent on this pomp and ceremony is a drop in the ocean in comparison

Wales was conquered by England in 1283,the English king now rules Wales. The ceremony today took place in a church which was set up by a mass murderer and rapist Henry the eighth.
Makes me ****ing laugh.
What a sad bunch of bastards the majority of Welsh people are.

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

Do you think the billions wasted in the last few years has helped with these issues , the money spent on this pomp and ceremony is a drop in the ocean in comparison

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The billions spent keeping people alive and keeping people in work ?

It has definitely helped , without question

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

The billions spent keeping people alive and keeping people in work ?

It has definitely helped , without question

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What about the billions wasted on fraudulent claims of government schemes ,the billions wasted on Track & Trace ,the billions wasted on inadequate PPE and the like ,what about the billions wasted in unpaid taxes by big companies with huge profits not passed on to customers ,billions wasted on proxy wars , millions wasted on failed road schemes ,HS2 etc

The money the pomp and ceremony cost is insignificant in comparison

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Stability my arse

How does the coronation today improve the lives , in any way of the homeless , those struggling with the cost of living crisis and a whole host of other important issues ?

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Stabilising your arse is a task beyond any head of state

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

What about the billions wasted on fraudulent claims of government schemes ,the billions wasted on Track & Trace ,the billions wasted on inadequate PPE and the like ,what about the billions wasted in unpaid taxes by big companies with huge profits not passed on to customers ,billions wasted on proxy wars , millions wasted on failed road schemes ,HS2 etc

The money the pomp and ceremony cost is insignificant in comparison

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You need to ask elected governments about that and vote them out

We cannot do anything about the royal family

I will never ever understand the forelock tugging towards a bunch of complete dull mediocrities. I just don’t get it. They are no better than the rest of us.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

How does the coronation today improve the lives , in any way of the homeless , those struggling with the cost of living crisis and a whole host of other important issues ?

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I bet it made the lives of the older generation happy for a while, I drove to screwfix today and saw a village having a party, loads out with tables and chairs, some food, a few drinks, it must have brightened the day of a few

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Originally Posted by blue matt

I bet it made the lives of the older generation happy for a while, I drove to screwfix today and saw a village having a party, loads out with tables and chairs, some food, a few drinks, it must have brightened the day of a few

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The elderly are not going to get better care and the hospitals more funding

Tuesday it will all be forgotten

We could make everybody a lot happier , all the time

But we prefer this cobblers

Interesting debate.
I was quite indifferent about the coronation but thought it's something I should watch seeing as it is such a big part of our great country's history.

It didn't take long before I found it quite uncomfortable watching.

The archbishop reciting vows which their royal highnesses had already renegaded on.
Could my discomfort be something to do with the advancement of technology, that we get to see everything, warts and all, not just nostalgic black and white snippets of yesteryear?
After all, watching small excerpts of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth from the fifties seemed nothing like what we witnessed today.
Could it have been that the TV and technology of those days, the aftermath of the world at war, pathè news, the stoic togetherness, the rhetoric which endeared the late queen to everybody's hearts?
Or could it just be the cynical nature of the older generation pouring scorn on the already tainted rep of our Royal family?

I just think that if HRH the King has taped it and watches it back in a few days, he may feel the same way as I.
If he doesn't, I think his boy Will will.
(sorry :facepalm:)

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Originally Posted by jon1959

By convention that is right - but as many Tony Benn road shows explained, it is not the whole story.

They still have a very powerful residual role and no primary legislation can be enacted without the assent of the sovereign. The monarchy still has a lot of power that they choose not to exercise (or test).

For me the ceremonial role is bad enough - enshrining inherited wealth and power, popular subservience, and archaic and expensive ritual - where none of that should be present in a modern, self-confident, democracy.

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He felt the same about the EU as well.
If you can’t get rid of them…it’s not democracy.

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Originally Posted by The Bloop

We could always get rid and end up like France or America with Presidents like Macron or Trump(or Biden), cos they're loved by the masses aren't they?

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A president need not be one and the same as the head of government. The German President, albeit a politician, becomes party neutral on taking up the post.
The incumbent is not entitled to the job due to the bed they are born in and neither are they the apex of the class system nor the Head of Church. They also do not have the position for life.
His or her job is not to be loved nor reviled by the masses nor are they semi-deified by decking themselves in crowns and ermine. They tend not to own enormous swathes of their country, they don't own numerous palaces and they pay the same taxes as their fellow countrymen, who are not their subjects. No-one swears allegiance to them, no-one unilaterally bows and curtseys to them and they are not above the law. They are not lauded in national anthems, they are not addressed as Your Highness (and do stop to think about that one) and they are not responsible for planting gongs and titles to Lords and Ladies.
Thankfully, the young see the folly of having the medieval concept of a royal family and the latter are finding it increasingly difficult to be semi-deified whilst engaging in undue influence, adultery, sex scandals, selling their domestic problem to the world's press and media and a lot else.
Let's grow up and realise that there are mature and stable alternatives to forelock tugging, medieval concepts, embedded privilege and infantilisation.

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Originally Posted by lincoln blue

Absolutey I'll second that.
What brought a tear to my eye today were our boys and girls, men and women, of the armed forces and voluntary services. What a spectacle, these are the true representatives of what's good in British Society.
So proud of these young ones and we can all sleep well at night, safe in the knowledge that they will be there to protect us if they were ever needed and not the likes of the "fat thumb brigade" on here and similar sites.

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I am always guarded about unconditionally supporting armed services by dint of their sheer existence - as not all their endeavours are necessary laudable.
Although not equating the following examples it's the principle that matters to me: Russian soldiers doing their government's bidding and killing people in Ukraine, US soldiers killing the Vietnamese en masse and British servicemen and women taking part in the invasion of Iraq.
No doubt I'll get a thick ear on here for expressing that principle (as some may still think I am equating those examples rather than the principle involved) but people get killed by recruits sent into battle on behalf of their governments.
I don't doubt the professionalism and general integrity of our armed forces but they are not solely occupied in just conflicts.

Christopher Hitchens often said that religion can make good people do bad things. The same could be said for for patriotism and loyalty in some cases.

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Originally Posted by Pearcey3

I will never ever understand the forelock tugging towards a bunch of complete dull mediocrities. I just don’t get it. They are no better than the rest of us.

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Worse.. how many have nonces in their family? How many are at war with themselves because one member stood up to racism towards his wife?

Give me £2 billion tax payers. I'll create some pomp pomp and pomp for the UK.

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

France get more tourists than us and they ain't got a monarchy. If all the countries in all the world with present day monarchies became republics immediately do you think tourism would die a death? No, me neither.

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Mate it’s the only thing that royalists think they can use to justify keeping the royal family they are brainwashed into believing it

I do not recognise Charlie boy as my king
I did not vote to have him as my king
I was brought up to believe as a child we are a democracy
We are not we live in a dictatorship

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

They don't have any legislative power whatsoever though Sludge. It's purely a symbolic head of state. I take your point on the principle nonetheless.

Maybe a party should stand on committing to a referendum? That would solve it once and for all and I am sure you would all definitely accept the result and not spend five years moaning about it!

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They would never agree to a referendum I honestly think if they were in danger of losing the vote it would be rigged
You keep referring to people moaning about these parasites if something isn’t right people have the right to say so

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I think we all know in practice that their role is entirely ceremonial. I would argue they add to our soft power abroad and I guess it would be naive to pretend that they have zero power here; they are part of civic society which all govts must keep on board. In practice I would say their influence on domestic policy is nothing compared to the civil service or religious leaders.

One could even argue that their apolitical status aids the executive as they don't present a threat where in other countries a political head of state who is different to the head of the govt may well do.

Certainly since WW2 we have seen extraordinary ranges of govt policy so I don't think the royals prevented any of that.

Nonetheless, I do remain uncomfortable with the fact that our head of state, symbolic as they may be, is unelected. I guess I view the positives as outweighing that. I accept some of the negatives you present but I think they are outweighed by the stability, sense of permanence, service and continuity that they provide.

What gets my goat is what I interpret as snooty jibes by a small minority against anyone who is supportive of it or dares to enjoy the ceremony.

The world is full of gloom and ceremonies of all kinds help to break that. There is nothing wrong with it in my opinion.

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Stability??
Charlie boy having an affair with that trout camilla. Cousins marrying cousins embarrassing.peado Andy embarrassing
All those dukes earls counts countess’s So Wrong

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Originally Posted by Pearcey3

I will never ever understand the forelock tugging towards a bunch of complete dull mediocrities. I just don’t get it. They are no better than the rest of us.

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Totally agree and interesting to see a lot of good comments posted overnight.

I saw a picture last night of Charles and Camilla in full costume wearing Crowns and they looked so uncomfortable.

As I said originally a 'medieval pantomime' and here we are in 2023.

Don't worry AI will sort it out?

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

A president need not be one and the same as the head of government. The German President, albeit a politician, becomes party neutral on taking up the post.
The incumbent is not entitled to the job due to the bed they are born in and neither are they the apex of the class system nor the Head of Church. They also do not have the position for life.
His or her job is not to be loved nor reviled by the masses nor are they semi-deified by decking themselves in crowns and ermine. They tend not to own enormous swathes of their country, they don't own numerous palaces and they pay the same taxes as their fellow countrymen, who are not their subjects. No-one swears allegiance to them, no-one unilaterally bows and curtseys to them and they are not above the law. They are not lauded in national anthems, they are not addressed as Your Highness (and do stop to think about that one) and they are not responsible for planting gongs and titles to Lords and Ladies.
Thankfully, the young see the folly of having the medieval concept of a royal family and the latter are finding it increasingly difficult to be semi-deified whilst engaging in undue influence, adultery, sex scandals, selling their domestic problem to the world's press and media and a lot else.
Let's grow up and realise that there are mature and stable alternatives to forelock tugging, medieval concepts, embedded privilege and infantilisation.

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Which is why it is important to establish what the country and its head of state will look like once the monarchy is no more.
Charles's time I think will see the whole establishment dimish. Now that Liz and Phil are gone, several nations, particularly those in the Caribbean and possibly Australia, will become Republics and the monarchy's influence and importance will become less and less over time.
It'll be a gradual process, but one day we will have an elected head of state.

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Originally Posted by Pembroke blue

They would never agree to a referendum I honestly think if they were in danger of losing the vote it would be rigged
You keep referring to people moaning about these parasites if something isn’t right people have the right to say so

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If course they do. People can moan about what they like. It's more powerfully done by making a positive case rather than slagging people off, hoping community events are rained off and biking anthems etc.

There is nothing whatsoever stopping any party from standing on a platform of a referendum on the monarchy. Why don't you start one?

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

I don’t think so , most kids love this kind of thing probably because they are not bitter and twisted at the age they are

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Exaxtly. They're children. They behave like children. And they don't understand.

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

Exaxtly. They're children. They behave like children. And they don't understand.

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Mate you are kinda criticising children having a nice time here. On Friday we saw people wishing for rain on a Bank holiday. Yesterday we saw people jerking themselves off over grown men booing an anthem and angrily labelling anyone with a different opinion as a bootlicker, forelock tugger and worse, whilst relishing a generation dying out.

And you think the royalists are the strange ones?!

Again, make a coherent case for change by all means. I for one would listen and I would agree with some of it. But the bitterness, anger and plain rudeness is not attractive at all - and hands up, many of us on here are guilty of that, but on this topic at least it's come from one direction and is aimed in many cases at people just trying to have a nice weekend.

And that's my mind made up. I'm gonna take the family to the castle today for the picnic thing. Your post has literally decided that for me!

I hope everyone has a lovely day whether you go to a nice community event, stay at home watching Liverpool fans boo on YouTube or do anything inbetween. 👍

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Mate you are kinda criticising children having a nice time here. On Friday we saw people wishing for rain on a Bank holiday. Yesterday we saw people jerking themselves off over grown men booing an anthem end angrily labelling anyone with a different opinion as a bootlicker, forelock tugger and worse, whilst relishing a generation dying out.

And you think the royalists are the strange ones?!

Again, make a coherent case for change by all means. I for one would listen and I would agree with some of it. But the bitterness, anger and plain rudeness is not attractive at all - and hands up, many of us on here are guilty of that, but on this topic at least it's come from one direction and is aimed in many cases at people just trying to have a nice weekend.

And that's my mind made up. I'm gonna take the family to the castle today for the picnic thing.

I hope everyone has a lovely day whether you go to a nice community event, stay at home watching Liverpool fans boo on YouTube or do anything inbetween. 👍

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To be honest I think you’ve spent more time on this thread than anybody else. Have a nice afternoon.

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Originally Posted by Baloo

To be honest I think you’ve spent more time on this thread than anybody else. Have a nice afternoon.

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Definitely up there! But not this afternoon!

Have a nice one too 👍

I'm in a minority as I really liked the Coronation spectacle yesterday. Parts of the ceremony were ridiculously outdated but overall the arrangements went off a treat and were much to be admired by me at least.

Attachment 5548

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Attachment 5548

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Just because people disagree with you doesn't mean they are wrong and you are right.

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Originally Posted by Vindec

Just because people disagree with you doesn't mean they are wrong and you are right.

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An interesting viewpoint.