Petition against 20mph blanket speed limit

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Originally Posted by Rjk

why is it asking for trouble? what trouble? from whom?

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Superfeathers makes an interesting point above. He advocates variable speed limits, which seems to be sensible.

I look at the valleys and there are lots of arterial roads which are 30mph. Some roads are dead quiet during weekdays while kids are at school and adults are out working, yet vehicles will be expected to dawdle along when the chances of an accident are greatly reduced. That will piss drivers off, for sure.

Is there a reason why delivery drivers in the very early hours when everyone is in bed should drive at 20mph?

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Originally Posted by Rjk

why is it asking for trouble? what trouble? from whom?
driving in rural France is pretty different to most of the UK (not least because of the state of the roads are much better) I have definitely seen lower speed limits than that as well over there.

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As has been intimated here....impatience....tailgating...monotony leading to lack of concentration....
There ARE some lower speed limits (30km) (18.6miles) on France, but very rare, of short distance, and usually where there are some hefty speed bumps.

I suppose that we will find out whether or not these speed restrictions have done any good when statistics are released, in terms of air pollution, accident rates etc. Am i for it? I think so, driving across a busy city has its risks, minimising them isn't a bad thing in my opinion, if that's what the outcome is. We hear the scaremongering, the false concern from those who in reality, don't like being told what to do. It was the same when Bus lanes were first implemented then cycle lanes, people were going to get injured, killed, the road is too narrow etc. I can understand Eric's point on the more rural stretches of road where the risk of hitting someone is less, although isn't this more about air pollution than accident rates?

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

isn't this more about air pollution than accident rates?

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The primary reason the Welsh Government keep saying is a reduction in fatalities and serious injuries, reducing the pressures on the NHS. I understand that 20mph in 3rd gear produces the same emissions as 30mph in 4th as revs are virtually the same.

In the link I provided earlier, Professor Cole says one reason for the speed reduction is to make car travel less attractive. In other words, the Welsh Government know that we can't keep putting more and more cars on the roads and this will hopefully result in fewer car journeys.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

The primary reason the Welsh Government keep saying is a reduction in fatalities and serious injuries, reducing the pressures on the NHS. I understand that 20mph in 3rd gear produces the same emissions as 30mph in 4th as revs are virtually the same.

In the link I provided earlier, Professor Cole says one reason for the speed reduction is to make car travel less attractive. In other words, the Welsh Government know that we can't keep putting more and more cars on the roads and this will hopefully result in fewer car journeys.

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Thanks for that Eric, Yup, you're spot on. i did 5 minutes of research and came up with the same answers you gave. There was some interesting stuff tat showed evidence towards people walking their kids to school more, now that the speed reduction had been reduced, and an increase in cycling.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Thanks for that Eric, Yup, you're spot on. i did 5 minutes of research and came up with the same answers you gave. There was some interesting stuff tat showed evidence towards people walking their kids to school more, now that the speed reduction had been reduced, and an increase in cycling.

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I think that, as a population in general, we've become more and more used to making even the shortest journey by car, rather than walk, and it's become a habit. I doubt we'll see much of an increase in cycling in the valleys with all the hills, mind!

I used to teach for a music service where you get paid per lesson you taught. I had two reasonably full days but had to get around 7 schools in those 2 days. The increase in journey time would cost me half an hour of lesson time a day for each day and cost me financially around £700 a year. Thankfully I don't work for them any more but I know of friends who do, and they're expecting to lose over a grand in earnings a year. Who is going to reimburse that?

With the amount of traffic on Cardiff’s roads it’s very often nigh on impossible to hit 20mph.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

I think that, as a population in general, we've become more and more used to making even the shortest journey by car, rather than walk, and it's become a habit. I doubt we'll see much of an increase in cycling in the valleys with all the hills, mind!

I used to teach for a music service where you get paid per lesson you taught. I had two reasonably full days but had to get around 7 schools in those 2 days. The increase in journey time would cost me half an hour of lesson time a day for each day and cost me financially around £700 a year. Thankfully I don't work for them any more but I know of friends who do, and they're expecting to lose over a grand in earnings a year. Who is going to reimburse that?

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Eric, this is by no means a flippant reply, i was self employed for 25 years, but i suppose the extra cost will have to be shouldered by the client. That's what i would do if more of my time was taken up in work. I know that it's not ideal for everyone, change rarely is.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Eric, this is by no means a flippant reply, i was self employed for 25 years, but i suppose the extra cost will have to be shouldered by the client. That's what i would do if more of my time was taken up in work. I know that it's not ideal for everyone, change rarely is.

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In this case, a price increase might mean less making use of the service, so less work being available.

In any case, some people will be worse off as a result of these measures, whether it be workers earning less, clients paying more etc.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

In this case, a price increase might mean less making use of the service, so less work being available.

In any case, some people will be worse off as a result of these measures, whether it be workers earning less, clients paying more etc.

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Absolutely, can't please everyone, and it is a concern that it could affect working people.

Genuine question.......are any of the posters on here having to leave home for work significantly earlier in the morning or arriving home much later after work due to the revised speed limits?

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

The primary reason the Welsh Government keep saying is a reduction in fatalities and serious injuries, reducing the pressures on the NHS. I understand that 20mph in 3rd gear produces the same emissions as 30mph in 4th as revs are virtually the same.

In the link I provided earlier, Professor Cole says one reason for the speed reduction is to make car travel less attractive. In other words, the Welsh Government know that we can't keep putting more and more cars on the roads and this will hopefully result in fewer car journeys.

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Cardiff council haven't got that memo, they've just cancelled the free school bus from gwaelod y Garth to Radyr comp, meaning there will probably be an extra 10-20 cars crawling through Radyr each morning

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Originally Posted by splott parker

Genuine question.......are any of the posters on here having to leave home for work significantly earlier in the morning or arriving home much later after work due to the revised speed limits?

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They haven't been revised yet.

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Originally Posted by splott parker

Genuine question.......are any of the posters on here having to leave home for work significantly earlier in the morning or arriving home much later after work due to the revised speed limits?

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Cardiff bus is cutting back on services from tomorrow (Monday) partially because of the 20mph limits

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

They haven't been revised yet.

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I don't think any of the roads I use to commute are going to change

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Originally Posted by splott parker

Genuine question.......are any of the posters on here having to leave home for work significantly earlier in the morning or arriving home much later after work due to the revised speed limits?

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I leave earlier in the morning not to have to put up with the tailgaters trying to make me go faster than 20 mph, i have previously been leaving the house at circa 6.45, if i can get out around 6.30 volume is significantly less.

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Originally Posted by Heathblue

I leave earlier in the morning not to have to put up with the tailgaters trying to make me go faster than 20 mph, i have previously been leaving the house at circa 6.45, if i can get out around 6.30 volume is significantly less.

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do the tailgaters only leave later?

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

They haven't been revised yet.

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The 20s are operational aren’t they? I bloody hope so, I’ve been happily trundling around for weeks:furious:

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Originally Posted by splott parker

The 20s are operational aren’t they? I bloody hope so, I’ve been happily trundling around for weeks:furious:

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17th this all comes into force. As has been said on several posts a blanket 20 is ludicrous. 20 by schools I think would be more sensible. When I was a kid I remember the green cross code ads. Not seen any of that for years. Is that even still taught nowadays

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Originally Posted by darran1927

17th this all comes into force. As has been said on several posts a blanket 20 is ludicrous. 20 by schools I think would be more sensible. When I was a kid I remember the green cross code ads. Not seen any of that for years. Is that even still taught nowadays

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Dave Prowse passed away.

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Originally Posted by splott parker

Genuine question.......are any of the posters on here having to leave home for work significantly earlier in the morning or arriving home much later after work due to the revised speed limits?

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Due to the bus timetable changes coming into force this week (for reasons other than just the 20mph limit), my bus to work is 20 minutes earlier in the morning. The return journey now departs 15 mins earlier or 15 mins later.
One argument I did hear regarding the new limits is that, if the council are serious about getting more people out of cars, then buses should still be able to travel up to 30mph.

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Originally Posted by The Bloop

Due to the bus timetable changes coming into force this week (for reasons other than just the 20mph limit), my bus to work is 20 minutes earlier in the morning. The return journey now departs 15 mins earlier or 15 mins later.
One argument I did hear regarding the new limits is that, if the council are serious about getting more people out of cars, then buses should still be able to travel up to 30mph.

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But that could only happen where there are bus lanes. Cardiff isn't so bad for those, but there are lots of parts of Wales where there are no bus lanes at all.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

But that could only happen where there are bus lanes. Cardiff isn't so bad for those, but there are lots of parts of Wales where there are no bus lanes at all.

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There's no buses either in many parts

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Originally Posted by The Bloop

Due to the bus timetable changes coming into force this week (for reasons other than just the 20mph limit), my bus to work is 20 minutes earlier in the morning. The return journey now departs 15 mins earlier or 15 mins later.
One argument I did hear regarding the new limits is that, if the council are serious about getting more people out of cars, then buses should still be able to travel up to 30mph.

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I’m pretty sure they’ve said 20mph is to reduce the accidents / deaths
I’m not sure giving buses the chance to hit people at 30
Will tie in with the policy 😂

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Originally Posted by superfeathers

I’m pretty sure they’ve said 20mph is to reduce the accidents / deaths
I’m not sure giving buses the chance to hit people at 30
Will tie in with the policy ��

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No it's not about that at all, it's just a chance to show some power get some attention and say look at us we are doing things different, we are in a mess, the NHS in Wales is shagged we have a worse economy than the rest of the UK, more empty shops, but we locked down for longer, banned the English, stepped people driving five miles, we've got more bus lanes and fewer buses and have slower speeds look at us.

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

No it's not about that at all, it's just a chance to show some power get some attention and say look at us we are doing things different, we are in a mess, the NHS in Wales is shagged we have a worse economy than the rest of the UK, more empty shops, but we locked down for longer, banned the English, stepped people driving five miles, we've got more bus lanes and fewer buses and have slower speeds look at us.

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Yes the Tories are definitely showing us what we are missing here in Wales…..

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Originally Posted by Dave Blue

Yes the Tories are definitely showing us what we are missing here in Wales…..

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The English NHS is in a better situation than ours and they have fewer empty shops, shut the Country down for longer, ban English visitors, and apply a tourist tax what do you think happens?

It's almost like someone sits down in a meeting and says what do we need to do to help the economy, collects a big list, and then do the exact opposite, and while we are there let us give random free prescriptions to people who don't need them, but what about all the extra waste if people don't have to pay for them, don't worry about that it's different.

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Originally Posted by Dave Blue

Yes the Tories are definitely showing us what we are missing here in Wales…..

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👍

Can u imagine if Arty was in charge of Wales.🤣🤣🤣

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

The English NHS is in a better situation than ours and they have fewer empty shops, shut the Country down for longer, ban English visitors, and apply a tourist tax what do you think happens?

It's almost like someone sits down in a meeting and says what do we need to do to help the economy, collects a big list, and then do the exact opposite, and while we are there let us give random free prescriptions to people who don't need them, but what about all the extra waste if people don't have to pay for them, don't worry about that it's different.

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England has a younger and wealthier population on average compared to Wales, which are 2 of the major factors that affect how much demand there is on healthcare services.

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

The English NHS is in a better situation than ours and they have fewer empty shops, shut the Country down for longer, ban English visitors, and apply a tourist tax what do you think happens?

It's almost like someone sits down in a meeting and says what do we need to do to help the economy, collects a big list, and then do the exact opposite, and while we are there let us give random free prescriptions to people who don't need them, but what about all the extra waste if people don't have to pay for them, don't worry about that it's different.

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People in England say the Welsh Government's handling of the Covid crisis was better than the Tories.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

People in England say the Welsh Government's handling of the Covid crisis was better than the Tories.

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I've yet to meet one, and I work there a lot and have to speak to many people from different backgrounds, they used to laugh and ridicule Drakeford it was embarrassing and has probably added to my dislike of him and his team.

Before that none of them had heard of him. That was the problem, Covid and his daft measures gave him a little bit of power and attention, but now he seems to crave it with pointless and more different ideas that may give him a tiny little bit of attention in England, meanwhile lowering the standards of living and enjoyment for the people of Wales who he is supposed to be serving in our best interests.

Hopefully, he'll retire soon, and none of his team gets a look in and some half-intelligent more balanced mini-Starmer gets a go to try and sort things out.

As for Boris, he was way too cautious, but ten times better than Drakford and Sturgeon, if it was up to them, the UK would be in a far worse position than it currently is, they never wanted to unlock at all, and tried to stop it and the same with Brexit, delays to both have left us all in a right mess.

Time to move this to the alternative thread, 90% of people don't want to plod around at 20mph, but some people will pretend they love it because it was a Welsh Labour idea or because they are pensioners with nowhere to go and can take all day to get there.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

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Can u imagine if Arty was in charge of Wales.������

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No he's probably just as bad, but I don't think he would do things to attract attention and for a tiny bit of fame, but we need far better than both.

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

No he's probably just as bad, but I don't think he would do things to attract attention and for a tiny bit of fame, but we need far better than both.

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the system needs to fundamentally change to incentivise good long term policies over political points scoring and getting back in at the next election

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Originally Posted by Rjk

the system needs to fundamentally change to incentivise good long term policies over political points scoring and getting back in at the next election

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Spot on agreed :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Hilts

👍

Can u imagine if Arty was in charge of Wales.🤣🤣🤣

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This is the problem. The Welsh Labour government is full of mediocrities, but the alternatives are even worse.

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

Spot on agreed :thumbup:

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Lower speed limits, more cycle lanes, and more public transport are all excellent long term policies.

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

As for Boris, he was way too cautious, but ten times better than Drakford and Sturgeon,

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This deserves a million:hehe::hehe::hehe:

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Originally Posted by splott parker

This deserves a million:hehe::hehe::hehe:

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Running Covid?

You know one in six shops is empty in Wales the worst in the UK, Yes locking down for as long as possible to try and be stupid and banning the English was a masterstroke for the Welsh economy.

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Originally Posted by splott parker

This deserves a million:hehe::hehe::hehe:

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Running Covid?

You know one in six shops is empty in Wales the worst in the UK, Yes locking down for as long as possible to try and be stupid and banning the English was a masterstroke for the Welsh economy.

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

Running Covid?

You know one in six shops is empty in Wales the worst in the UK, Yes locking down for as long as possible to try and be stupid and banning the English was a masterstroke for the Welsh economy.

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Johnson was an utter disaster in every aspect of his premiership. A man who has only looked out for and showed concern for one person......himself. “Let the bodies pile high”....disgusting human being.