Attachment 5774Quote:
Originally Posted by lardy
Was the hug & lift before or after the kiss?
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Attachment 5774Quote:
Originally Posted by lardy
Was the hug & lift before or after the kiss?
Think Lardy’s gone AWOL 😂Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest Green Bluebird
Lardy is back, and has found the video.
It looks to me like he jumps rather than she lifts.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="pt" dir="ltr">Novas imagens desmentem versão da Federação espanhola ⬇️<br><br>REF garantiu em comunicado que a Hermoso tinha levantado Rubiales enquanto o abraçava. <a href="https://t.co/D6dQI34BSy">pic.twitter.com/D6dQI34BSy</a></p>— Cabine Desportiva (@CabineSport) <a href="https://twitter.com/CabineSport/status/1696242474329538926?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 28, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Spanish FA have now backed down on this claim
I thought at first it was just excitement and heat of the moment stuff , sport is emotional and everyone kisses everyone ......on the terraces , in the changing rooms , in the pubs , men kiss men , men kiss women , everyone's at it when emotions are high
This sort of dominant kiss .....see it all the time on nights out , rugby and football teams of both sexes celebrating a win etc ......
Far too much analysis going on with regard to this sort of thing it's like happy hour at Pete and bernies philosophical steak house
She was laughing in the changing rooms when asked about being kissed it didn't appear to be the demeanour of someone offended or distressed
But his crotch grabbing antics mean that he's obviously going to have to walk
Seems to me that there is a bigger sporting issue which underlies this event. There are a series of mass resignations from coaching staff and support employees who claim that over time there have been other incidents where they have complained and no action taken no just about Robiales but also the coach Vilda
The local media suggest that the system as it stands is broken and needs a restructuring from top to bottom.
Robiales clearly doesn’t want to lose his job but his forceful statements before the Spanish FA appear to have lost him a lot of political support .
On Saturday He even offered Vilda a new 5 year contract on £500,000 a year. This is not the actions of a man who is worried about his job
However his situation now appears untenable because he has apparently pissed off most of his support
Yeah aside from anything else, there is a lot of backstory to the women's team and their relationship with the Spanish FA
https://www.theguardian.com/football...ch-jorge-vilda
No means yes!Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Exactly he hasn't been lifted there he's raised his own legsQuote:
Originally Posted by lardy
She walked away smiling and was laughing and joking away in the changing room and dancing about with her teamQuote:
Originally Posted by OurManFlint II
She didn't appear at all concerned
In his case it appears he is a git but we can't be describing hundreds and thousands of men and women who plant kisses on each other as sex offenders ff sake
****ing loved it the slag!Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Birds love it when i pinch their arses, or when i wolf whistle out my window, laughing and giggling with their friends!
Give your ****ing head a wobble, nobody is getting put on a sex offenders register but you need to walk a mile in women's shoes and recognise the everyday fears and powers that men have over them. Shame on you, get the **** out here!
Jimbo, I think you maybe judging everyone on your habits, experiences and morals?Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Still have a read buddy, you may want to reflect on your past behaviours?
https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-inform...exual-assault/
Are you accusing me of sexual assault because I have kissed someone without first getting verbal or written consent?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordi Culé
I refuse to believe that you have never done the same, and I think you should be wary of what you accuse people of tbh.
Jordi Cule above seems to be suggesting that it absolutely is sexual assault and then (presumably) he should be put on the sex offenders register?Quote:
Originally Posted by OurManFlint II
Oh shut up you soppy tartQuote:
Originally Posted by OurManFlint II
I don't know anyone who pinches women's arses or wolf whistles
Plenty of people of all sexes and sexuality carry out that sort of daft kiss it may or may not be taken by a woman or man or whatever as threatening or offensive but the problem with people like you is you appear to be speaking for everyone
I wouldn't do something like that but if I see someone doing it I wouldn't assume , as you have , that they are a raving sexist
They may be male homosexual , giving one of their lifelong female friends a kiss on their hen night or chuffed that she's had an all clear from cancer
Ff sake
The question is surely how would your wife feel , not how would you feel ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
If my wife felt that sort of kiss was harmless and not threatening then that's what it was , to her ?
She's a very sexy ladyQuote:
Originally Posted by William Treseder
I spoke to her once outside the grandstand at NP
But she was with a dodgy looking bloke so I did a runner
Well the answer to that is that given the context a lot of women wouldn't be that bothered by getting kissed after they had won the world's biggest sporting occasionQuote:
Originally Posted by stevo
If someone walked up to a womanin the street and planted a beauty on her like that .....out of the blue ?
Then yes , possibly a sexual assault and not really any defence
I'm giving you information about what sexual assault is and the concept of consent. If I'm being kind, your understanding of it as I interpret from you posts suggest it's limited.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Whether or not you need to reflect on your past behaviour is your call? You're the one who brought them up.
I wasn't in the habit of getting piissed up and snogging strangers on the off chance they wanted to have me kissing them? You feel free to carry on believing I did if it makes you feel better?
I agree. I was just looking at an angle through his eyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
I remember her ex.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Fully aware of what it can be interpreted as thanks, but context matters and you seemed to be accusing me of things. People who kiss on a night out do not typically get written or verbal consent before doing so. I think the kind of line you are pushing is the kind of thing that gives grave sexual anxiety to many young people tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordi Culé
If you genuinely care about womens rights and safety there are far better things you can do than make wild accusations on here.
This Spanish fa chap didn't go up to a drunken vulnerable woman and kiss her face offQuote:
Originally Posted by Jordi Culé
He knew her , she knew him
At first she didn't appear offended by the kiss in any way at all
That doesn't mean it's always going to be acceptable behaviour of course
Jimbo, the real issue here was your initial lack of understanding on what is defined as sexual assault and the concept of consent within the law.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
What are you rambling about?Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Sludge, whether or not Robiales is guilty of sexual assault or not, I’ll let the powers that be deal with it but I suggest to you look up the definition of sexual assault and consent under UK law.
“He knew her, she knew him...” what’s the relevant point there? You do know up to 90% of victims of rape and sexual assault knew their attackers?
Not at all. I understand consent, but I also understand that these things are not always absolutely black and white, and the example here is a case in point (that is being investigated) as is the examples I gave of people kissing on nights out etc, when one person will typically 'lean in' without written or verbal consent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordi Culé
For that you started talking about drunken sex pests and shared a link to a rape crisis charity.
You can present these things as black and white issues if you like, but the reality is that they aren't.
There's an enormous amount of abuse of females that goes on and coercive control is an area I feel particularly strongly about but this case is overblown in my opinion and actually masks bigger issues for me, and I've spoken to several women about it in the last week and not come across a single one taking the line you seem to be taking and I'm not really sure a kiss on the lips per se is sexual. Tongues is, I'm not sure a peck is, even between adults.
I take your point on consent more generally but I don't think you can be calling people sex pests for having a slightly different take on this tbh.
Jesus ChristQuote:
Originally Posted by Jordi Culé
If you think this sort of thing is always a sexual assault .....and it's clear that you do ......then the cells are going to be full from here till eternity
There are plenty of times when this sort of kiss is totally unwanted , intimidating and sometimes a criminal act but thank feck you are not on the jury
You sound like a trendy lefty , the type that at university would join the women's society and go to their discos and go on field trips to displays of early female artwork in Greece
And then go home and read Fiesta because Kathy Lloyd's in it this month
You ain't fooling me sonny
Man who seemingly lives with his waanking sock, porn collection and frequently describes women as “rotters” (yes I know it’s in the main parody) fails to understand the legal definition of sexual assault because he is a massively opinionated arse.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Not a surprise really.
How was Kathy Lloyd looking in Fiesta? Worth a pull?
James “leaning in” can be construed a ‘trying it on’. The politics, issues and social norms on this subject have changed and evolved greatly over the last few decades even years. What may have been seen as appropriate behaviour previously is now seen (rightly for me) as not. I suppose that’s why we don’t see men pinch or slap women’s arses as much as the previous decades where Carry On films and Benny Hill ruled comedy?Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Women are more aware of their rights and what is abuse, what previously was seen as ‘fair game’ isn’t. I think women are calling that progress. Some men seem to be struggling with it? ‘Trying it on’ in the noughties (naughtiest perhaps) could be construed as overstepping the mark now.
In the Robiales v Hermoso incident, using UK Law is there reason to believe an investigation should be considered? By definition and the seemingly lack of consent then I’ll say ‘Yes’. I’ll let the powers to be decide the outcome. As already stated (I think by yourself?) if not sexual assault it’s certainly an abuse of power, position and deeply inappropriate behaviour.
The last sentence is a great point. This isn't "oh, she knows him", there is a massive gulf in their respective positions, and it happened on a public occasion which made it even less likely that she could immediately protest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordi Culé
I think I remember seeing Hollywood actors feeling up actresses on red carpet walks and the women not able to move their hands because of where they were.
She was greatQuote:
Originally Posted by Jordi Culé
And you had a look too
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66632652
Interesting perspective and details in there, although it’s mainly from women so I’m not sure if it counts?
Some folks on here don’t seem to appreciate that there are varying degrees of sexual assault - just like other crimes such as theft. Nobody here is suggesting that anyone who kisses a girl without their consent can expect to face jail time. Just like you wouldn’t go to jail for minor shoplifting. But it’s still theft and you may expect to lose your job over it. Same deal with this Hermoso case. Get it?
Duplicate post
I don’t think anyone is advocating the pinching or slapping of arses whatsoever, so not sure those examples are of great value, although as you say, they do demonstrate how times change, not that I ever recall those periods and I am in my early 40s.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordi Culé
I think you will find women have a diversity of opinions on this topic and certainly do in terms of what is considered ‘abuse’ and I think you need to be pretty careful in labelling going in to kiss someone as ‘sexual abuse’. The world is full of people trying to understand other peoples feelings, and many men and women (particularly younger ones) will try and kiss someone and if it isn’t wanted, the person pulls away. To label that person as a sexual abuser is I think very damaging and to even present this as an idea does contribute to a world in which there is growing social and sexual anxiety amongst young people. As I said, I don’t think it’s progress, I think it’s actually a very conservative approach to sexuality and human interaction.
In this case, no one doubts that he shouldn’t have done it or that an investigation shouldn’t occur if she requested one – which she has. I also acknowledge the power dynamic The question is whether this really is sexual abuse and what the consequence of it is and I’m not really sure that kissing on lips is by definition sexual, as again, blanket interpretations of this can’t always be provided.
I strongly suspect there is more going on here. Have you seen the video of the players on the bus? The BBC of course have not reported on that, instead populating their article (which you posted above) with the usual opinions that back up their stance, which they shouldn’t even really have, as they should be neutral.
Either way, trying to label me some kind of sexual abuser isn’t really on Jordi. Slap on the wrist for that (not a real one, don’t report me for assault!)
This is the video that emerged today btw. You can ask yourselves why the BBC decide to do articles in which they ask people like Laura Bates for comments but don't report on this? I have my own theory on that, but presentation of the full story doesn't seem to be their motivation.
https://en.as.com/videos/video-emerg...biales-kiss-v/
Fair play James, your unwillingness to acknowledge legal definitions, recognise situations that could be construed as sexual asssult as legally defined and try changing the narrative where you are now the victim, sort of encapsulates how far there is to go in this issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Cheers for the slap on the wrist as admonishment, kinky and consensual by the way. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.
Three days ago you said:Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
"The whole story is so completely, utterly and ridiculously blown out of proportion, it is quite unbelievable, and it says a lot about the current state of the media IMO.. I'm going to try and stop following the story, it's all mad."
And now you're complaining that the BBC hasn't covered this video and isn't talking about it enough!
:thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordi Culé