Birmingham Council declares bankruptcy

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

The backpay is part of the situation but the reduction in block grant since 2010 is the key

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Without looking at the rest of the thread, I think it's safe to assume that few know that the Tory Government changed local authority funding in 2013, allowing them to keep half of business rates in return for a reduction in block funding. This was seen as a way to incentivise councils to promote economic growth and, therefore, increases in business rates while reducing central government spending. Of course, such a move has meant that the most wealthy council areas have benefitted the most, while poorer areas have struggled.

Once again I see idiotic comments that suggest council spending is just like any other and they should live within their means. However, councils have certain essential services they are legally obliged to maintain and many are barely doing much more than that. The notion that, if you cut funding, you cut waste has a tiny flaw in it - as Blackadder would say, "it's bollocks". No business would ever consider running a council.

It's a fantastic sleight of hand. Council taxes rise but council funding drops overall so services are cut. People question what they are paying their council tax for, without realising the whole story. These are the same people who moan about towns dying because of council business rates, yet councils need those rates more than ever, providing their third largest funding pool.

So, what do the right want? Reductions in council tax, lower business rates, less money from central government, but cutting wastage will mean services can be provided at a good level. Anyone really thinking that is a total idiot.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

No Birmingham is labour led

As are most councils that get into financial bother

But it's got nothing to do with that which is the point you were trying to push

But I am afraid you have fallen on your ass

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How about a Labour administration at the Senedd that this year have over spent by 20% of the budget. Drippy Drakeford spunked up over £900,000,000 without even realising. That was obviously all Thatcher's fault as well.

Eric - maybe if Birmingham Council paid their staff equal pay in the first place - they wouldnt have wasted other money - which they didnt have. Brum Council have nearly gone bust a few times because of the idiots that run it.

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Originally Posted by pipster

Eric - maybe if Birmingham Council paid their staff equal pay in the first place - they wouldnt have wasted other money - which they didnt have. Brum Council have nearly gone bust a few times because of the idiots that run it.

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If my aunty had bollocks she'd be my uncle.

Any reason you've mentioned me in your comment given my only contribution to this thread had nothing to do with Birmingham, but councils in general?

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Originally Posted by Vindec

If that is the case every local authority in the country would be bankrupt. The reality is that a Labour Council underpaid their staff and failed to live within its means.

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Do you think that since 2010 the current mess at Birmingham is a one off and following that do you think that the financial problems at councils is down to ......well what ?

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Originally Posted by pipster

How about a Labour administration at the Senedd that this year have over spent by 20% of the budget. Drippy Drakeford spunked up over £900,000,000 without even realising. That was obviously all Thatcher's fault as well.

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What about the Conservative administration at Westminster?

Any issues there since 2010 ?

I am just having a cup of tea , I can wait

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Without looking at the rest of the thread, I think it's safe to assume that few know that the Tory Government changed local authority funding in 2013, allowing them to keep half of business rates in return for a reduction in block funding. This was seen as a way to incentivise councils to promote economic growth and, therefore, increases in business rates while reducing central government spending. Of course, such a move has meant that the most wealthy council areas have benefitted the most, while poorer areas have struggled.

Once again I see idiotic comments that suggest council spending is just like any other and they should live within their means. However, councils have certain essential services they are legally obliged to maintain and many are barely doing much more than that. The notion that, if you cut funding, you cut waste has a tiny flaw in it - as Blackadder would say, "it's bollocks". No business would ever consider running a council.

It's a fantastic sleight of hand. Council taxes rise but council funding drops overall so services are cut. People question what they are paying their council tax for, without realising the whole story. These are the same people who moan about towns dying because of council business rates, yet councils need those rates more than ever, providing their third largest funding pool.

So, what do the right want? Reductions in council tax, lower business rates, less money from central government, but cutting wastage will mean services can be provided at a good level. Anyone really thinking that is a total idiot.

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The right don't care

As long as they are OK

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

It is correct that mismanagement can happen anywhere under any party. But when it was a Tory Council, Sludge not only had a different tune, he even started the thread on it!

https://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.ph...light=Thurrock

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I was 100 percent right

Look how quiet all the tory boys were on that thread

All they could say was well what about Labour

Which proves my point

Didn’t Surrey have to go begging last year?

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Originally Posted by Dave Blue

Didn’t Surrey have to go begging last year?

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Several tory run councils have been in serious financial trouble

But when it's a tory council it's not financial mismanagement ......

It's " unfortunate "

Unlike those lefty Labour types

Bloody untrustworthy

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I was 100 percent right

Look how quiet all the tory boys were on that thread

All they could say was well what about Labour

Which proves my point

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Probably bored of your endless politicking

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

What about the Conservative administration at Westminster?

Any issues there since 2010 ?

I am just having a cup of tea , I can wait

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OK.......

The millions lost through dodgy track and trace ......conservatives

This school thing ......the conservatives have been warned about this for ten years ......that's going to cost the country an absolute fortune

Is that not on your list of financial shame ?

Don't fall asleep on me

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Probably bored of your endless politicking

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Feck me that's ironic coming from you

Well at least one of you lot is awake though eh

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Feck me that's ironic coming from you

Well at least one of you lot is awake though eh

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Not really Sludgey. I have always clearly stated that good and bad exist within and happen under all parties.

A handful of people on here don't, they present things as good and evil and I fundamentally disagree with that. It so happens that the only people on here who think such things tend to support the Labour party, but if anyone came out with guff in the opposite direction, I'd pick up on that too. It just doesn't really happen.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Not really Sludgey. I have always clearly stated that good and bad exist within and happen under all parties.

A handful of people on here don't, they present things as good and evil and I fundamentally disagree with that. It so happens that the only people on here who think such things tend to support the Labour party, but if anyone came out with guff in the opposite direction, I'd pick up on that too. It just doesn't really happen.

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Absolute hogwash

You are a raving tory and plenty of us see through right through your whataboutery

You must think we came down in the last shower of rain

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Without looking at the rest of the thread, I think it's safe to assume that few know that the Tory Government changed local authority funding in 2013, allowing them to keep half of business rates in return for a reduction in block funding. This was seen as a way to incentivise councils to promote economic growth and, therefore, increases in business rates while reducing central government spending. Of course, such a move has meant that the most wealthy council areas have benefitted the most, while poorer areas have struggled.

Once again I see idiotic comments that suggest council spending is just like any other and they should live within their means. However, councils have certain essential services they are legally obliged to maintain and many are barely doing much more than that. The notion that, if you cut funding, you cut waste has a tiny flaw in it - as Blackadder would say, "it's bollocks". No business would ever consider running a council.

It's a fantastic sleight of hand. Council taxes rise but council funding drops overall so services are cut. People question what they are paying their council tax for, without realising the whole story. These are the same people who moan about towns dying because of council business rates, yet councils need those rates more than ever, providing their third largest funding pool.

So, what do the right want? Reductions in council tax, lower business rates, less money from central government, but cutting wastage will mean services can be provided at a good level. Anyone really thinking that is a total idiot.

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So locking down longer when there was no need and damaging the Welsh economy more than other countries was bad then, I'm confused, you said that was great?

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Originally Posted by ToTaL ITK

Very interesting discussion. i also work for a council but in another country. It is also underfunded and if you wanted to burn money, just give it to a council. just my opinion

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Of Course but some a lot more than others!

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Several tory run councils have been in serious financial trouble

But when it's a tory council it's not financial mismanagement ......

It's " unfortunate "

Unlike those lefty Labour types

Bloody untrustworthy

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In the last few years 2 Tory's councils , 1 lib Dem and 3 Labour Councils have hit the rocks.
According to The Guardian newspaper - Croydon Council (Labour) has gone bust 3 times - so if you count instances then it's 5 to Labour. Motto of the story - Vivere in te modo - live within your means.

Brum council 19milion IT system half delivered and cost so far £100,000,000. Maybe there should be a test that Council leaders are fit for running an organisation before they are appointed ?

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Absolute hogwash

You are a raving tory and plenty of us see through right through your whataboutery

You must think we came down in the last shower of rain

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Nah, be fair - he nearly always outlines his even handedness before going on to prove he was talking rubbish.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Nah, be fair - he nearly always outlines his even handedness before going on to prove he was talking rubbish.

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It's not hogwash though is it. You spend a lot of your time on here - why not find an example of me claiming one party is better than the other? In fact, you'll be wasting your time..go for some fresh air instead!

Just to demonstrate as clearly as possible that Sludge and Bob are incorrect.

List of councils who have declared s114 bankruptcy notices:

Birmingham (Labour)
Woking (Lib Dems)
Thurrock (Conservative)
Croydon (NOC)
Northumberland (Conservative)
Nottingham (Labour)
Slough (Labour
Northamptonshire (Conservative)

Like most issues that people like them usually present as such, it's not a party political issue. It's a complex and often unique set of scenarios

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Just to demonstrate as clearly as possible that Sludge and Bob are incorrect.

List of councils who have declared s114 bankruptcy notices:

Birmingham (Labour)
Woking (Lib Dems)
Thurrock (Conservative)
Croydon (NOC)
Northumberland (Conservative)
Nottingham (Labour)
Slough (Labour
Northamptonshire (Conservative)

Like most issues that people like them usually present as such, it's not a party political issue. It's a complex and often unique set of scenarios

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My only contribution to this thread is to comment on your alleged even handedness - you’re just guessing when it comes to what I think about this story.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Just to demonstrate as clearly as possible that Sludge and Bob are incorrect.

List of councils who have declared s114 bankruptcy notices:

Birmingham (Labour)
Woking (Lib Dems)
Thurrock (Conservative)
Croydon (NOC)
Northumberland (Conservative)
Nottingham (Labour)
Slough (Labour
Northamptonshire (Conservative)

Like most issues that people like them usually present as such, it's not a party political issue. It's a complex and often unique set of scenarios

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You are posting this to prove you are impartial ......ie look at me , I am not a tory honest ?

Or you are posting this to prove the actual situation of inefficient or corrupt or badly mismanaged councils is crap across the board ?

Try and be specific so I can try and understand

What are bob and I incorrect about ?

Council mismanagement ......obviously the point of the thread .......is usually pointed at left wing councils by Conservative voters

But it's a spurious claim and this thread has shown that

I don't really know why you are here ?

Labour council wasted a load of money through daft ideas and mismanagement, went bancrupt, leftes try to defend the undefendable as usual.


THREAD OVER!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

Labour council wasted a load of money through daft ideas and mismanagement, went bancrupt, leftes try to defend the undefendable as usual.


THREAD OVER!!!!!!!

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Threads over when we all decide, not just you.

Any comments on these Tory Councils?

https://x.com/marinapurkiss/status/1...ZQyp-iO2wYo4Kg

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Originally Posted by ninian opinian

Threads over when we all decide, not just you.

Any comments on these Tory Councils?

https://x.com/marinapurkiss/status/1...ZQyp-iO2wYo4Kg

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Bloody lefty councils !

Oh hold on a minute

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Bloody lefty councils !

Oh hold on a minute

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Yesterday you were implying that it wasnt these Labour councils fault - it was to do with extra demand of the socially deprived areas they represent. But as you have seen Tory councils have gone bust as well (albeit not as many as Labour ones).

Just face a fact - poorly run councils (like health boards) go t1ts up due to idiots running them (Birmingham is a basket case full of badly run projects and corruption.

If the socially woke right on Birmingham council had paid women equally - they wouldnt be in this mess. Im sure you 'll come back saying it was Thatchers fault or let us know about some imaginary woman you've sh@gged

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pipster

Yesterday you were implying that it wasnt these Labour councils fault - it was to do with extra demand of the socially deprived areas they represent. But as you have seen Tory councils have gone bust as well (albeit not as many as Labour ones).

Just face a fact - poorly run councils (like health boards) go t1ts up due to idiots running them (Birmingham is a basket case full of badly run projects and corruption.

If the socially woke right on Birmingham council had paid women equally - they wouldnt be in this mess. Im sure you 'll come back saying it was Thatchers fault or let us know about some imaginary woman you've sh@gged

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Well I have read that

And it's absolute bollocks

The irony of Labour in Birmingham and in other cities is their hypocrisy , they were done in court for denying female workers equal pay, they then have the cheek to rename streets in Birmingham (at a cost ) as Equality , Fairness .

Got feck all to do with politics its about incompetence of one of the biggest urban areas in Europe.

They are basically useless and funded well enough to support key services. Even the Unite Union leader had called out their known poor management of finances .

They are top of the
Town Hall Rich List with 21 officials earning over well over £100,000. With some eye watering salaries, for eye watering failure.

Nothing to do with the bloody Tories, more to do with incompetence.

Read the reality, and stop socalist blame gaming .

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Originally Posted by life on mars

The irony of Labour in Birmingham and in other cities is their hypocrisy , they were done in court for denying female workers equal pay, they then have the cheek to rename streets in Birmingham (at a cost ) as Equality , Fairness .

Got feck all to do with politics its about incompetence of one of the biggest urban areas in Europe.

They are basically useless and funded well enough to support key services. Even the Unite Union leader had called out their known poor management of finances .

They are top of the
Town Hall Rich List with 21 officials earning over well over £100,000. With some eye watering salaries, for eye watering failure.

Nothing to do with the bloody Tories, more to do with incompetence.

Read the reality, and stop socalist blame gaming .

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It's got nothing to do with politics you say before ending your contribution with " socialist " etc etc

It's started badly for you , tailed off and ended badly

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

It's got nothing to do with politics you say before ending your contribution with " socialist " etc etc

It's started badly for you , tailed off and ended badly

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The issues at Birmingham are incompetence your first action is to launch into a father Father Jack moment fecking Tories ? Arse , Drink , so it started there . I was simply pointing out your socalist blame rant was in play

You have a view on thier appalling treatment of women and fair pay and thier equality rights that has caused this shit fest , whilst naming streets as Equality avenue and Fairness Road or is Truss to blame for this and the heatwave.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

The issues at Birmingham are incompetence your first action is to launch into a father Father Jack moment fecking Tories ? Arse , Drink , so it started there . I was simply pointing out your socalist blame rant was in play

You have a view on thier appalling treatment of women and fair pay and thier equality rights that has caused this shit fest , whilst naming streets as Equality avenue and Fairness Road or is Truss to blame for this and the heatwave.

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:hehe: Father Jack x2 though

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

With respect though Mo, that's a bit simplistic. There are so many variables in running a local authority. And i'm not saying that money isn't wasted, because it is.

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whilst simplistic, it is still correct. you can only spend what you collect. in the case of BCC, they spent far more.

BTW i'm not disagreeing with you about cuts to services and trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear, I disagree that you cannot look at it in a simple way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Just to demonstrate as clearly as possible that Sludge and Bob are incorrect.

List of councils who have declared s114 bankruptcy notices:

Birmingham (Labour)
Woking (Lib Dems)
Thurrock (Conservative)
Croydon (NOC)
Northumberland (Conservative)
Nottingham (Labour)
Slough (Labour
Northamptonshire (Conservative)

Like most issues that people like them usually present as such, it's not a party political issue. It's a complex and often unique set of scenarios

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It's about competence, ability to balance one's priorities in very difficult times . Anyone could spend money without due diligence, trouble with councils they can overspend under perform without worries as they blame those who fund them, that's the issue. No responsibility , that's why sometimes private ownership works as it becomes responsible.