If we were top of the league 30 points clear, 2nd place would have a maximum of 24 points which, in the current table, would put them in 13th.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
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If we were top of the league 30 points clear, 2nd place would have a maximum of 24 points which, in the current table, would put them in 13th.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
Matt didn't explain anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
He did have two profound suggestions for anyone unhappy with the way the club (their club) is being managed - buy it for £60m or walk away!
He ignored the points in the fan letter as much as the club did with their very poor reply. Club strategy, communication and decision making are none of our business!
At least the attitude is clear.
I’ve provided you with a straightforward response to this line of questioning on a number of previous occasions. If a critical thinker like you is unable to absorb such basic information, I can’t be held responsible.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
Maybe your mind is too full of complicated conspiracy theories to make room for such simple stuff?
It's a daft argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
Of course we wouldn't complain if 30 points clear. That would suggest a well run successful club.
As opposed to a side in relegation trouble appointing novice or useless managers on repeat.
However it's clear we have a significant amount of fans either content or not bothered. So they will continue with the shit show.
It sure feels like one of "if you're not happy, bugger off".Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
indeed, apathy has led us to this point we find ourselves, as fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
:thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
To continue the Tesco analogy, if the ready meal lasagne was tasty, you go back for another. If it had half a dead rat in it and used ferret spunk instead of bechamel, you'd be likely to complain or not go back to that store. Tesco would prefer the complaint and try and deal with it. Our club is saying don't complain.
Matt’s post doesn’t answer the particular question I asked any more than any you have posted do. We’ve seen plenty of gaslighting about how the supporters’ organisations did not follow “protocol” (by the way Enoch Mort made it sound like the club aren’t exactly blameless when it comes to ignoring protocol either), but their reply does not say anything else at all as far as I can see. So, Tan and co have ignored everything in the open letter and opted to tell the supporters groups off for not treating them with enough respect - is that a satisfactory way of doing things at a club in decline which is haemorrhaging support as it battles against relegation…..again.?Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
having used rather than fresh ferret spunk is unforgivableQuote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
:hehe: not sure there are many other places around the world wide web where this very sentence would be posted...Quote:
Originally Posted by delmbox
You’re being silly now Loner Gunman , get back in line , and remember you’re a public servant and all opinions are welcome unless it’s ones you don’t agree with.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
Imagine going through all that attention seeking stuff about never going again whilst Tan is in charge and whimpering back, bless
I don’t think they have ignored anything, as there is a scheduled meeting in the New Year in line with their own protocols.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
I once purchased a microwave ratatouille and it had half a dead lasagne in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
Imagine all the people living for today.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
Ah.....
The club should realise that they've pissed everyone off big style yet again and that's why their nice little protocols are now being bypassed. Their response suggests that they're treating their relationship with fans groups as an opportunity to keep things under wraps, give a few stock responses and carry on ignoring supporters.
A better analogy than supermarkets would be drug dealers. They can cut your crack with any old shit but wtf are you going to do about it?
Well this board shows that a fair amount back them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Undercoverinwurzelland
Elsewhere we still have a deluded minority who still are taken in that Sam Hamamm is the answer. Which is utter lunacy of course.
Apparently bid 100m. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
We are fecked unless we get a new owner or we fluke a genius manager.
Tan=a divided fan base
Tan=Club seen as a bit of a joke
Tan=club finances propped up (short-term survival)
Tan=zero understanding of running a football club
Tan=Inept senior management appointments
Tan=meddling in football decisions
Tan=Ongoing uncertainty over where this club is heading
yes...I must admit that I've been picking up similar vibes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa
Ok but when did you start attending?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisp White Lines
1971Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Blue
I’m surprised. I expected something like 2004. Don’t you think your list is a little one sided? In those years in the 80s and 90s did you ever think you would see 2 x PL years and 2 cup finals?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisp White Lines
Similarly, if you were a fan in the 50s and 60s you'd never have expected to see 18 years outside the top two divisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Blue
We've spent longer in the Championship since promotion in 2003 than we did outside of it from 1985. Sometimes the argument crops up that it's better than the dross we had back then, but the reality is that those 18 seasons were a blip on our overall league record. Quite a blip, but nothing more.
One of those cup finals pre-dated the Tan era.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Blue
Do you think any part of the list is inaccurate?
Similarly, if you asked me at that Reading game where we celebrated promotion in May 2018 if I could imagine us being bottom of the Championship just over six years later having made the worst start to a season in our history, I would have said it was definitely possible under this ownership.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Blue
Since then, the ownership of the club has become more erratic and error prone. However, let’s accept the gist of the clubs line that there are enough opportunities for the FAB and other supporters’ groups to meet with the club’s hierarchy, what are they told at these meetings and what do they learn of the club’s direction? Increasingly, we hear the line that all of the major decisions at Cardiff City are made by one man.
For example, Mehmet Dalman has told supporters at meetings on at least two occasions that he favours the appointment of a Director of Football at City, but it’s not going to happen because Vincent Tan is against the idea. It’s generally assumed that this is because our owner is still bruised by his Mackay/Moody experience, but, off the top of my head, I’m not aware of the man himself coming out and explaining why he is so opposed to a Director of Football at City- it’s over a decade since Mackay/Moody were involved at the club now after all.
At these “frequent” meetings with supporters’ groups, the club hierarchy is quite often represented by the Chairman and CEO, but I genuinely don’t know the last time the man they both admit makes all the big decisions at City was at one (maybe before a game he attended three or four years ago?).
I can’t speak as to why those behind the open letter decided that it was needed, but it seems at least possible that there was a feeling among them that they would learn nothing new and/or important from those representing the club at any meeting because anything they were told would come with the qualification that they were not the people making the big decisions at Cardiff.
I think I’m tight in saying that Omer Riza flew over to Malaysia to see Vincent Tan on 13 November and eight days later he could only answer you’ll have to ask the club when questioned by the media about his future in his pre Sheffield Wednesday press conference. A further ten days of inertia during which City took two points from a possible nine followed before the decision to send the club an open letter was made. Did the publication of the open letter finally force the club into action regarding Omer Riza’s future? Who knows, because based on previous experience, we’ll learn nothing as to why it took them more than ten weeks to make a decision which they could have made six weeks earlier and received a pretty positive response from supporters I would have thought.
Tan= no decent manager will work under himQuote:
Originally Posted by Crisp White Lines
What will Tan's legacy as owner of this club be when he moves on - took over a club that had been challenging for promotion to the Premier League and turned them into a club threatened with relegation to League 1 with far bigger debts than when he took over, while the club continually made huge losses in the transfer market.
It was a pretty poor first 20 years supporting this club. Clawing our way out of that situation required the involvement of a few questionable owners and senior managers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Blue
I have experienced some great times over the whole 53 years, which I will never take for granted.
However, we now have an owner who is keeping the club afloat whilst letting it drift towards the rocks. In fact, he seems determined to steer it that way.
I’m not saying we can replace him but, equally, we can’t survive long-term with him.
‘Revenge is a dish best served cold’………He’s bided his time, perhaps we are now witnessing his ‘Back to blue’ long term evil plan.
or walk away and not use the companyQuote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
The customer must be pretty entitled to demand answers about how the company is run by the management
yes its been poor, but as a customer of a football team ( or any sports team ) we accept the high and lows, thats the life of a football customer :xmasthumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordi Culé
not sure they are profound but I appreciate your sarcasm , I mealy pointed out they are the 2 options we have, yes of course we can sit here and woe is us, moan about the club but it doesnt really achieve much, we can protest, get games abandoned ( like reading did last year ) but ultimately, VT will do what he wantsQuote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
do you really think you as a fan have the right to a explanation for the management decision making ?
I wonder if you spoke to a reading fan about how its gone for them since that game ( and I have ) I wonder if they would swap places with youQuote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
There is not much point with the company / customer analogies as supporting a football club is a very different experience with a strong emotional tie in.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
I’ve used my local Morrisons store for many years but since it’s been owned by private equity ( who are no doubt screwing the business and their staff for short term profit gains) it has gone rapidly downhill . I’m not emotionally involved enough to care to write to the owners, I protest by simply shopping elsewhere.
You can’t walk away from your football club quite so easily , it is much more of an emotional bond. I know some did after the change to red, one of my sons being one and a couple of good friends being others but it is not easy. There’s no logic why I buy a season ticket every year when it’s a 350 mile round trip for me and I only see half the home games but there is that bond that says this is my football club.
So it makes perfect sense that us supporters will want to protest and complain when we feel the “ custodians” are not doing a good job.
It’s very unique to football and maybe more so in this country than anywhere else where we have so many professional clubs.
agreed, its completely different, but imho we are just customers in todays modern game, its a shame, but thats the way I feel it isQuote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
I think the reality is most fans feel their own club has worse owners and has it worse than others.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
Reading fans may think they have it the worst in the world and even got a game called off they felt so strongly. However I'm sure fairly soon maybe even next season they'll be back in the Championship and stable- probably better off than us.
Derby also- remember this could be derby's last game every week for months only a couple of seasons ago? All forgotten now, decent owners and a well run club mid table Championship.
Cardiff fans- I'm fully behind the moans as I think we have it worst as the club is just slowly withering away. At least derby brought everyone together in unity. Reading also. In a way I'd rather we had real genuine problems as could bring the fanbase together and could have some atmosphere back. We felt it post black Friday in 2005. As it is we don't even have that so most are just shrugging if they do turn up and even more just switched off from the whole thing. Its not even a lack of spending as im sure we are paying some players pretty bloody well. If we had no money and had to rely on youngsters maybe easier to accept.
I accept thats a contradiction and other clubs fans would say we should be grateful for tan but things can't go on with this slow negligence by those in charge. Things need to get to breaking point for better or worse ASAP.
So I do accept your point (about Swindon in the other thread lol) but my point is we don't even have that. At least they have a united fan base and feel they are fighting against someone or for something. They will come through it stronger. We don't even have that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Dougal
Just a disinterested and divided fanbase.
And you think that’s a realistic choice for people who have supported their local football team for decades? Absurd!Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
When you have families and other hobbies how is it Absurd ? It’s just a football team and it comes with highs and lows. I was at Coventry and most of my mates didn’t leave the concourse for the whole game , so clearly their main objective was having a laugh with their friends and a few beers.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Similarly in the 80’s and 90’s we used to go for the fashion and culture associated with the football club and used to just attend away games or stay in town for home games. None of us were or are still interested in the boardroom shenanigans.
I can assure you that your suggestion is absurd.
Spot on.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Tan is merely the owner until the next one comes along, and the one after, and the one after etc. Fans remain (well some will). He's the guardian of the biggest football club in Cardiff and the surrounding area and makes his money at the club from those who live and breathe the club, who support it week in, week out.
If I don't like a supermarket, I have choices on what to do. It's hardly the same with a football club when it becomes a part of your life and identity. A part of every football club belongs to the fans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
How does he make money out of the football club , around 80% of all professional football clubs make significant loses ?
Without the owners financial support we would be wound up by the HMRC and we have almost been wound up under Hammam a few times, which people in this thread have simply forgotten