EUROS FINAL. FT: ENGLAND 1 - 2 SPAIN

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

No idea. There could be a scale where there are A, AA and AAA footballing nations for all I know. As England haven't won anything for well over half a century and as there are other teams at a standard above them a simple explanation wouldn't go amiss.

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Are the batteries inserted up their rear ends ?

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Originally Posted by fugsyphil

I watched the quarters in Italy and really had to go looking for places to watch it. Was told once Italy get knocked out they are no longer interested

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Yeah, assumed that must’ve been the case. Also been a little surprised how few English (or British) people I’ve heard or seen here so far (feels like it’s been mainly Italians and Yanks). Not a single shirt etc last night, although a few Spanish flags draped about shoulders.

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Originally Posted by Moodybluebird

There are only TWO English players who are regulars in the Man City first team, Foden and Walker. Stones was in and out of the team last season, same as Grealish. In effect they are a multi-national team, with no nationality being more dominant than another.

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Well said young sir/madam/they/etc, etc,etc :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Henry Hill

Go back to bed. You dont even rate Nico Williams. A sensible football debate is impossible with someone who sees the game as you do.

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At what point did I say I didn’t rate him ?

I only pointed out, that there was very rarely a finished product to all his work ethic

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Originally Posted by Moodybluebird

There are only TWO English players who are regulars in the Man City first team, Foden and Walker. Stones was in and out of the team last season, same as Grealish. In effect they are a multi-national team, with no nationality being more dominant than another.

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Pretty sure Stones had a number of injuries during 2023/24.

I thought England came out of that pretty well to be honest. It took conceding (again) to make changes and get on the front foot, but if that beautiful second goal had been just the other side of a kneecap then it was still game-on. I would have still bet on Spain to win it but I wouldn't have been putting the house on it.

Spain were a level above England but I struggle to even think of the length of the gap with Wales. Is there something longer than light-years ?

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Originally Posted by caerkid

I thought England came out of that pretty well to be honest. It took conceding (again) to make changes and get on the front foot, but if that beautiful second goal had been just the other side of a kneecap then it was still game-on. I would have still bet on Spain to win it but I wouldn't have been putting the house on it.

Spain were a level above England but I struggle to even think of the length of the gap with Wales. Is there something longer than light-years ?

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No point dragging Wales into the debate. With our very small pool of players we know our place in the grand scheme of things.

England's attack just didn't make any sense, very little to do with the skill levels of the players involved I'd say, but a coaching and tactics issue.
they were fortunate to et the the final in both the games and the way the draw panned out for them. They were relatively decent in the last 2 tournaments, but definitely not as good this time.
if they have any sense they'll take the opportunity to bring some fresh ideas in

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Originally Posted by Moodybluebird

There are only TWO English players who are regulars in the Man City first team, Foden and Walker. Stones was in and out of the team last season, same as Grealish. In effect they are a multi-national team, with no nationality being more dominant than another.

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Both Stones and Grealish were injured a fair bit last season. They both started the Champions Legaue final and were certainly regulars and in the first choice XI for the important games in the treble winning team of 2022/23.

Stones when fit is definitely a 1st choice player at Man City when fit.

I think Foden and Bellingham have been below their best at the tournament. Kane obviously miles off his best.

I think Gordon has a right to be upset that he didn't get more opportunities.

tldr: Henry Winter - Southgate must go

https://talksport.com/football/19619...ro-2024-final/

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Originally Posted by Hilts

I think Foden and Bellingham have been below their best at the tournament. Kane obviously miles off his best.

I think Gordon has a right to be upset that he didn't get more opportunities.

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Toney and Watkins will be glad to see the back of Southgate too. Kane wasnt fit all tournament yet he still kept getting selected. People can say the Kane should have pulled himself out of the games for the good of the team but if Southgate had anything about him he would have taken the decision out of Kanes hands.

I don’t know if it’s Kane not being fit as much as he was trying to play in the exact same space that Foden and Bellingham were for most of the tournament. Seems to me like it’s maybe a convenient excuse at this point for a player whose game has never been based on his speed and physicality.

Whatever the truth, it was obvious very early on that Watkins or Toney would have been a far better option in terms of form and tactical fit.

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Originally Posted by Moodybluebird

I don't accept that England are now as technically proficient as the rest of the top teams in the world. Nearly every team they've come up against this tournament has at times displayed a level of composure and vision on the ball that seems to be beyond English players. And we're not just talking about Spain. At times Slovenia, Slovakia and Denmark made English players look so uncomfortable in and out of possession. If they were that accomplished technically they would not have looked so decidedly second-rate.

Over the years English players have improved their ball skills and maintained their physicality but it doesn't appear to be in their DNA to play with the same finesse as the serial tournament winners. A change of manager may or may not help them but I wouldn't put money on the new manager being able to take them to the next level.

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At times, it was like watching Cardiff ...

It's no doubt Southgate cost them the chance of winning the final. He flogged his best players too death. 7 of the English starting 11 played nearly 3 hours more football than the Spanish team.

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Originally Posted by Alfresco

It's no doubt Southgate cost them the chance of winning the final. He flogged his best players too death. 7 of the English starting 11 played nearly 3 hours more football than the Spanish team.

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Because Spain got the job done on the way to the final, beating better teams than the English faced in the minimum time.

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Originally Posted by splott parker

Because Spain got the job done on the way to the final, beating better teams than the English faced in the minimum time.

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The England team played 30 minutes more than Spain to reach the final. On the way to the final Spain used every outfield player. England didn't use 3 of their outfield players and one came on for one minute. It was poor squad management, England looked knackered in the final.

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Originally Posted by Alfresco

The England team played 30 minutes more than Spain to reach the final. On the way to the final Spain used every outfield player. England didn't use 3 of their outfield players and one came on for one minute. It was poor squad management, England looked knackered in the final.

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That wasn't why they lost.

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Originally Posted by Alfresco

The England team played 30 minutes more than Spain to reach the final. On the way to the final Spain used every outfield player. England didn't use 3 of their outfield players and one came on for one minute. It was poor squad management, England looked knackered in the final.

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England looked knackered because they spent most of the final trying to get the ball off the Spanish. Rio Ferdinand said he's played in matches like that and it's incredibly tiring and difficult to counteract.

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Originally Posted by Moodybluebird

England looked knackered because they spent most of the final trying to get the ball off the Spanish. Rio Ferdinand said he's played in matches like that and it's incredibly tiring and difficult to counteract.

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Nothing to do with the fact that 7 of the England team played nearly 2 more games than Spain in the terms of minutes played.

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Originally Posted by Alfresco

Nothing to do with the fact that 7 of the England team played nearly 2 more games than Spain in the terms of minutes played.

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No. When the Netherlands team sat off them in the first half of the semi, England had space to play and looked much fresher than they had done earlier in the tournament.

Spain are masters at retaining possession and winning the ball back quickly if they lose it. It proved to much for Croatia, Italy, Germany, France and most definitely for England.

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Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew

When was the last time you bought a vibrator? They're USB chargeable now. :sherlock:

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Cheers mate, I just found a used one on eBay :thumbup:

Some interesting analysis here of how England handed the initiative back to Spain when they could have had a bit of momentum after equalising.
https://www.theguardian.com/football...24-final-spain

Very good article. Something to be said for the psychology of momentum in football, or why paying sports psychologists so much money seemed to be the fad a few years ago.

Certainly far too often Southgate's England seemed to have sat back when they have had the game for the taking or at least some momentum, and it's hard to believe when many of these players don't play like that for their clubs it's not the way he's telling them to play or at least not to not play.

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Originally Posted by LA Bluebird

Very good article. Something to be said for the psychology of momentum in football, or why paying sports psychologists so much money seemed to be the fad a few years ago.

Certainly far too often Southgate's England seemed to have sat back when they have had the game for the taking or at least some momentum, and it's hard to believe when many of these players don't play like that for their clubs it's not the way he's telling them to play or at least not to not play.

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It's very telling that reference is made to Walker not often having to face teams that are technically superior to his own. For Walker read Foden, Bellingham, Rice, Kane, Stones and a few others possibly and you begin to understand why the players we are used to seeing performing well in the Premier League and other top European Leagues are unrecognisable when they pull on an England shirt.

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Originally Posted by LA Bluebird

Very good article. Something to be said for the psychology of momentum in football, or why paying sports psychologists so much money seemed to be the fad a few years ago.

Certainly far too often Southgate's England seemed to have sat back when they have had the game for the taking or at least some momentum, and it's hard to believe when many of these players don't play like that for their clubs it's not the way he's telling them to play or at least not to not play.

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Analytics is big now.

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Originally Posted by Moodybluebird

It's very telling that reference is made to Walker not often having to face teams that are technically superior to his own. For Walker read Foden, Bellingham, Rice, Kane, Stones and a few others possibly and you begin to understand why the players we are used to seeing performing well in the Premier League and other top European Leagues are unrecognisable when they pull on an England shirt.

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they weren't playing teams that are technically superior to them in this tournament, they are just a mess tactically

I saw an interesting comment from Trippier this morning as well, which was to the effect that the young players like Mainoo and Palmer would have learned a lot for the next tournament, and especially while Lamal and Williams were out there winning the tournament for Spain with a combined age of 37 it seems like a very English sentiment.

England have had golden generations for the last 20 years and have been saying the next one will be their time, at some point the best and most ready players have to be on the pitch and if you are specifically saying that your veterans were out of shape at the end of a long season why the hell didn’t he rotate and play the youngsters more? Anything can happen in the next 2-4 years. Odd.

Southgate’s now resigned

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

Southgate’s now resigned

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Smart move, he will get a lot more respect this way.

Spanish starting 11 total minutes played minus goalie compared to England
Spain. England
431. 690
443. 690
454. 453
471. 690
494. 134
507. 635
521. 622
525. 671
542. 605
546. 177
Looks like the Spanish manager was more astute at player management than Southgate.