How did Nigel do ?

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

I live in a quaint little town about 20 mfiles away from of London. I am petrified that 60 million Brits who live in comparative shit holes are fully entitled to up sticks and move here. Why exactly wouldn't someone living on an estate in Manchester not want to live here instead?

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well your there for one

Europe is experiencing its longest period of peace since the Roman Empire.

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Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi

Europe is experiencing its longest period of peace since the Roman Empire.

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Forget your random statements and post some nice flange :thumbup: :hehe:

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Originally Posted by Nelsonca61

Forget your random statements and post some nice flange :thumbup: :hehe:

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http://www.hjmk.co.kr/img/pro08_1.jpg

A thread on Farage must resort to flange as a coping mechanism because the man looks like an inverted ball bag. For this reason I'm saying he didn't do well on TV.

Yeah but which one is the prettiest?

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Originally Posted by Rjk

It's kind of obvious to me that if we aren't agreeing to some of the terms that the EU wants then we won't get as favourable terms in the things that we want.otherwise Norway wouldn't be accepting free movement of people or contributing to the EU budget would they?
Farage et Al have sold you a dud, they say you can have your cake and eat it. But it isn't going to happen.

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Once again, we do not know this for a fact, who knows what deals we could strike

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Originally Posted by TH63

:ohwell:

I'm sorry, but please don't tell me you are basing such an important decision due to the "fact" that some Polish bloke brought you your Cousin Mario's Spag Bol??

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No, but it highlighted that maybe we might be getting to a point where we do not need anymore unskilled workers from other countries

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Originally Posted by Richyrich

44% of UK exports go to the EU, while just 8% of what the EU exports goes the other way.

Do you seriously believe we hold the upper hand when it comes to making a trade deal?

With Johnson and Gove doing the deals we would end up with a WTO deal. Then we would be ****ed.

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who knows, it easy to say " Oh lets stay in the EU because this MIGHT happen, or we might not get a good deal "

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

Here is one more fact.

The GDP of the uk is about 2 trillion.

So crude maths would suggest that if leaving the EU negatively affects the UK economy by even 0.5% then leaving would be a poor economic choice.

Or maybe I can't add up.

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the first part of your post is a fact, the second is just guess work, we do not know if leaving the EU would have a negative effect, we can guess it will, but it could well be a short term thing, once again, who knows

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Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi

http://www.hjmk.co.kr/img/pro08_1.jpg

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My personal favourite was the weld neck type, good for rooting and penetration, slip on flanges are for those
who call themselves welders, but cannot weld.

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Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt

Do you think there are 5.23 million "clearing table" vacancies in the UK for all the Turkish and Albanian people just waiting to come to the UK? Just think, we could end up with a Frankie and Benny on every street corner to provide the jobs - that could be a benefit for you.

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:hehe: spot on fella. :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by chris

:hehe: spot on fella. :thumbup:

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:facepalm:

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

I live in a quaint little town about 20 mfiles away from of London. I am petrified that 60 million Brits who live in comparative shit holes are fully entitled to up sticks and move here. Why exactly wouldn't someone living on an estate in Manchester not want to live here instead?

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maybe its down to money :hehe:

you dont think some of these immigrants coming over here , have suitcases stuffed with 20 pound notes do ya.? :hehe:

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Originally Posted by blue matt

when did i say anything about 5.23 million ? ? ?

but nevertheless, them 2 points are undisputed by both sides, we pay more into the EU than we take out AND turkey and Balkan countries are waiting for membership to the EU

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OK - so what were your 2 points again?

1. The UK Government spends more on the EU than it receives. Yes, this is a fact in simplistic terms. However, economists agree that the UK also benefits from being in the EU (i.e. external benefits - more trade as a result of being members of the EU).

So, fact number 1 is a bit more complex than "We put in £350m a day, but only get £327m back".

2. Turkey and Balkan countries are waiting for membership.

The membership is not guaranteed is it? And, if it is, what does it mean? It MIGHT mean that millions of Turkish people flood into the country. But, that's a MIGHT.

You later argue in the thread "Who is to say that the UK can't negotiate a trade deal with no tariffs". Fair point, but that is another MIGHT.

What cannot be denied is that some percentage of the UK's GDP is the result of being a member of the EU. Even Farage admitted it. When you have an economy worth trillions, and that economy is spending a few million quid a day on the EU to get a boost to it's GDP - then those millions really do look like peanuts. Unless you can show me otherwise (i.e. the UK definitely does not benefit from being in the EU).

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Originally Posted by chris

:hehe: spot on fella. :thumbup:

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Um, do you know what point I was making there?

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Originally Posted by blue matt

Once again, we do not know this for a fact, who knows what deals we could (i.e. MIGHT) strike



No, but it highlighted that maybe we might <- now you are saying MIGHT be getting to a point where we do not need anymore unskilled workers from other countries



who knows, it easy to say " Oh lets stay in the EU because this MIGHT happen, or we might not get a good deal " - MIGHT



the first part of your post is a fact, the second is just guess work, we do not know if leaving the EU would have a negative effect, we can guess it will, but it could well be a short term thing, once again, who knows

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So leaving the EU MIGHT have a positive effect or it MIGHT have a negative effect. Apologies, but you're just muddying the water.

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Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt

So leaving the EU MIGHT have a positive effect or it MIGHT have a negative effect. Apologies, but you're just muddying the water.

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exactly

both sides can use " mights and maybe's " and it is all the stay have done so far

I have said that the thought of another load of unskilled people coming to the UK doesnt appeal to me, why would it ?? ?

the fact that we pay more into the EU than we take out ( apart from trade deals, but that is another might ) doesnt really make me that happy either

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Originally Posted by blue matt

exactly

both sides can use " mights and maybe's " and it is all the stay have done so far

I have said that the thought of another load of unskilled people coming to the UK doesnt appeal to me, why would it ?? ?

the fact that we pay more into the EU than we take out ( apart from trade deals, but that is another might ) doesnt really make me that happy either

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That is all the LEAVE side have done - "Maybes" and scaremongering. That is all BOTH sides have done.

Who is to say that there will be another load of unskilled workers? There MIGHT be, there MIGHT not be. That's not a fact.

Every economist that has spoken on the referendum (from either side) say that being in the EU boosts the economy and that boost is currently GREATER than the net contribution the UK makes. Why would that make you unhappy?

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Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt

Who is to say that there will be another load of unskilled workers? There MIGHT be, there MIGHT not be. That's not a fact.

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Oh come of it, you dont believe thats just a MIGHT, Mr Unskilled Turk or Albanian will be over here for a better life ( or just more money, look at the average wages, the UK will pay per week what a Albanian will earn per month ) not them all granted, but we all know a fair number will come, look at The History with the other Eastern European workers

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Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt

Every economist that has spoken on the referendum (from either side) say that being in the EU boosts the economy and that boost is currently GREATER than the net contribution the UK makes. Why would that make you unhappy?

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but they havent said if its a long or a short term thing ( that is another might or maybe ) , I have read we could be in for 3 - 5 years of hard times till things settle down and new trade agreements are made, which then will mean the county will be better of with not paying the money into the EU in the long term

3 to 5 years of hard times for a better future, isnt that was the Tories said at the last general election and people voted for that

Simple fact of the matter is, we wont get a decent trade deal unless we accept the free movement of people with Europe. So whats the point in leaving?

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Originally Posted by blue matt

Oh come of it, you dont believe thats just a MIGHT, Mr Unskilled Turk or Albanian will be over here for a better life ( or just more money, look at the average wages, the UK will pay per week what a Albanian will earn per month ) not them all granted, but we all know a fair number will come, look at The History with the other Eastern European workers

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We all know a fair number will come? That is, of course, providing they join the EU. They MIGHT not. There are not an infinite number of jobs to fill.

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Originally Posted by blue matt

but they havent said if its a long or a short term thing ( that is another might or maybe ) , I have read we could be in for 3 - 5 years of hard times till things settle down and new trade agreements are made, which then will mean the county will be better of with not paying the money into the EU in the long term

3 to 5 years of hard times for a better future, isnt that was the Tories said at the last general election and people voted for that

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Oh, so after 5 years things MIGHT be really rosy if we leave. Or they MIGHT not be. I'm glad we're working with definite scenarios now.

As nobody seems to have mentioned it there is also a looming crisis in a few years time when all migrants entering the EU will be entitled to receive EU passports entitling them to eventually settle in the UK. It might take between 5 and 8 years but, given the referendum is a once in a generation opportunity, future implications need to be taken into account.

On the trade question there are many countries around the World that have trade deals with the EU without having free movement arrangements.

I'm still undecided but the longer this issue goes on the more inclined I am to vote OUT but accept there are short term dangers to the economy if we decide to REMAIN.

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Originally Posted by Vindec

As nobody seems to have mentioned it there is also a looming crisis in a few years time when all migrants entering the EU will be entitled to receive EU passports entitling them to eventually settle in the UK. It might take between 5 and 8 years but, given the referendum is a once in a generation opportunity, future implications need to be taken into account.

On the trade question there are many countries around the World that have trade deals with the EU without having free movement arrangements.

I'm still undecided but the longer this issue goes on the more inclined I am to vote OUT but accept there are short term dangers to the economy if we decide to REMAIN.

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If they're in the UK as a longterm resident, they don't get this. Also, we don't have the same free movement of non-EU nationals who have been in an EU country long enough to get citizenship that other EU countries do. So it's not all migrants and even then, the UK is exempt.

And in most other countries, it's not automatically granted on time alone. They will also have to have a clean criminal record, show keenness to integrate or whatever. Are there any EU countries which give passports after X years with no other requirement?

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Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt

We all know a fair number will come? That is, of course, providing they join the EU. They MIGHT not. There are not an infinite number of jobs to fill.




Oh, so after 5 years things MIGHT be really rosy if we leave. Or they MIGHT not be. I'm glad we're working with definite scenarios now.

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the point is, we have no " definite scenarios ", the stay campaign and the economists ( you speak of ) have none either, we can look at likely scenarios and if The turks and Albanians join we know a fair number will head over here for better paid jobs, end up living 6 to a flat ( like the poles do )

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Originally Posted by blue matt

the point is, we have no " definite scenarios ", the stay campaign and the economists ( you speak of ) have none either, we can look at likely scenarios and if The turks and Albanians join we know a fair number will head over here for better paid jobs, end up living 6 to a flat ( like the poles do )

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But you said the LEAVE campaign had facts, and the REMAIN campaign had "ifs, mights and maybes". All I am saying is that both sides are relying on ifs, mights and maybes. Which is what you say above. "If" the Turkish and Albanians join, we know (well, theorise) that a "fair" (5, 50, 500, 5000, 50000, 500000, 5000000?) number will head over here for better paid jobs.

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Originally Posted by lardy

If they're in the UK as a longterm resident, they don't get this. Also, we don't have the same free movement of non-EU nationals who have been in an EU country long enough to get citizenship that other EU countries do. So it's not all migrants and even then, the UK is exempt.

And in most other countries, it's not automatically granted on time alone. They will also have to have a clean criminal record, show keenness to integrate or whatever. Are there any EU countries which give passports after X years with no other requirement?

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My post was related to the hundreds of thousands entering the EU from Syria and beyond. Once they qualify for a EU passport through residency in say Germany they can enter and live in any EU country including the UK. This has nothing to do with the Schengen agreement meaning the UK are as likely to be affected as any other EU country. An EU passport granted in any EU country will entitle any migrant to settle anywhere in the EU including the UK.

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Originally Posted by blue matt

the point is, we have no " definite scenarios ", the stay campaign and the economists ( you speak of ) have none either, we can look at likely scenarios and if The turks and Albanians join we know a fair number will head over here for better paid jobs, end up living 6 to a flat ( like the poles do )

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So basically nobody's got a fecking clue what will be the effect if we stay or leave, but we're willing to stake our future and our children's future on black and hope the roulette ball doesn't land in red.