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Re: Major bid for a striker - Revealed as Troy Deeney
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Heisenberg
Troy Deeney
17/18: 29 apps 5 goals (3 pens)
16/17: 37 apps 10 goals (3 pens)
15/16: 38 apps 13 goals (6 pens)
There's definitely signs of a steady decline judging by those stats.
Seen the size of his "GUT" these days ??
Burger King, must be making a fortune in Watford
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Re: Major bid for a striker - Revealed as Troy Deeney
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fine Lines
No. It’s called Supporting the club. Rather than rubbishing players and branding them not good enough.
I understand where you're coming from but Zohore, Madine & Ward have a gross of 5 goals between them in League games so far in 2018, against Ipswich, Wurzles, Brentford, Burton & Norwich.
We're hoping that Hoilett, Reid, Murphy & NML are going to supply the lions share of goals from midfield.
I'm not advocating that we spend money on Deeney he woldn't be my choice but in my opinion we need a proven Premiership striker & a playmaker to put the runners through.
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Re: Major bid for a striker - Revealed as Troy Deeney
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Des Parrot
I understand where you're coming from but Zohore, Madine & Ward have a gross of 5 goals between them in League games so far in 2018, against Ipswich, Wurzles, Brentford, Burton & Norwich.
We're hoping that Hoilett, Reid, Murphy & NML are going to supply the lions share of goals from midfield.
I'm not advocating that we spend money on Deeney he woldn't be my choice but in my opinion we need a proven Premiership striker & a playmaker to put the runners through.
I take your point that our guys have hardly been prolific. I put that down largely to the way we play mind. I just don’t think buying a proven premiership striker would guarantee goals.
A proven premiership striker would cost around the 20 million mark I’m guessing. A playmaker around the same I would have thought. It would also mean a change to the way we play. Warnock was reluctant to use a playmaker last gear for fear of being over run in the middle.
All I’m saying is let’s go with what we got up top in Zohore or Madine , Tomlin on the bench to come on if chasing a goal and more creativity needed. Ward and Reid as options too.
A midfield of Ralls , Gunnarson , Paterson with Damour and A.N other to come in ?
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Re: Major bid for a striker - Revealed as Troy Deeney
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fine Lines
I take your point that our guys have hardly been prolific. I put that down largely to the way we play mind. I just don’t think buying a proven premiership striker would guarantee goals.
A proven premiership striker would cost around the 20 million mark I’m guessing. A playmaker around the same I would have thought. It would also mean a change to the way we play. Warnock was reluctant to use a playmaker last gear for fear of being over run in the middle.
All I’m saying is let’s go with what we got up top in Zohore or Madine , Tomlin on the bench to come on if chasing a goal and more creativity needed. Ward and Reid as options too.
A midfield of Ralls , Gunnarson , Paterson with Damour and A.N other to come in ?
I think we'll play 4-2-3-1
Gunnarson & Ralls holding
Hoilett - Reid - Murphy
in behind Zohore
For me Gunnar is the weak link, the attacking midfield need to feed off passes into the channels and that isn't Gunnars game.
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Re: Major bid for a striker - Revealed as Troy Deeney
I can kind of see it from.both perspectives. It's a lot of money for someone who seems to be declining and you can't get money back from him.
He has experience and a decent PL pedigree which maybe valuable to us.
Me personally I think Fulham have got better value in Mitrovic.
I'd prefer someone like Vokes or Niasse. However sometimes it depends on club's and players I've never been a big fan of Murray but he's done job for Brighton.
We have to be realistic about who we can sign because to everyone else we look bound to go back down, you are either going to be someone like Reid who wants to prove himself or someone who isn't going to get a sniff elsewhere.
I'm not sure who else is out there.
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Re: Major bid for a striker - Revealed as Troy Deeney
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Des Parrot
Mitrovic 10 Premiership goals in total £22M rising to £27M
Austin 14 Premiership goals in the last 3 seasons
Rondon 24 Premiership goals in the last 3 seasons (my choice)
Andre Grey 14 in 2 seasons
Benteke 27 in the last 3
Dwight Gayle 14 in his last 3 seasons
Jay Rodiguez 12 in the last 3
Jon Walters 17 in his last 3 (exc last season)
Peter Crouch 12 in the last 3
Troy Deeney 28 in the last 3
I can only find Vardy & Josh King outside of the top 6 clubs who have scored more. I'm surprised but value for money he's up there!
Seriously? Deeney is a hard worker, but £15m and £100k a week? He scored 5 last season, and Watford were decent for long periods.
Warnock building a team for 2019/20 - NQAT.
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Re: Major bid for a striker - Revealed as Troy Deeney
Seriously doubt he's on 100k a week. That's ridiculous.
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Re: Major bid for a striker - Revealed as Troy Deeney
He's not, never has been, never will be. Basic salary in current contract £45k, see earlier post
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Re: Major bid for a striker - Revealed as Troy Deeney
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spooky Tree
Seriously doubt he's on 100k a week. That's ridiculous.
That’s my take on it, if he’s on 100 grand per week at Watford the link with us is utter bollocks. He won’t take a hit & I sincerely hope we wouldn’t entertain matching or, God forbid, bettering it. If he is genuinely on that he wouldn’t be being mentioned in the same breath as Cardiff City.
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Re: Major bid for a striker - Revealed as Troy Deeney
I stand corrected if he's not on £100,000. Its just what came up in a quick google search of his salary etc.
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Re: Major bid for a striker - Revealed as Troy Deeney
Can't we just sign Ahmed Musa from Leicester and just watch him bang the goals in.
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Re: Major bid for a striker - Revealed as Troy Deeney
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Des Parrot
He's not, never has been, never will be. Basic salary in current contract £45k, see earlier post
That'll teach me to listen to some on here :hehe:
Still, 45k a week. A lot of money for someone who scored 2 non-penalties last season (and I seem to remember 1 was a rebound, but that could be wrong).
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Re: Major bid for a striker - Revealed as Troy Deeney
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Des Parrot
He's not, never has been, never will be. Basic salary in current contract £45k, see earlier post
I’m not sure what people are expecting the club to do. We’re not going to pay £20+ million on a player this year (maybe next if we stay up) and a salary anywhere north of £40kish is also realistic
Who are we going to get for less than that who’ll fit in and improve our team - Deeney is as good a shout as anything.
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Re: Major bid for a striker - Revealed as Troy Deeney
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Des Parrot
I understand where you're coming from but Zohore, Madine & Ward have a gross of 5 goals between them in League games so far in 2018, against Ipswich, Wurzles, Brentford, Burton & Norwich.
We're hoping that Hoilett, Reid, Murphy & NML are going to supply the lions share of goals from midfield.
I'm not advocating that we spend money on Deeney he woldn't be my choice but in my opinion we need a proven Premiership striker & a playmaker to put the runners through.
Your stats have kind of proved that there isn't such a thing unless you have vardy money. If deeney was a few years younger he would still be an asset if we get relegated. I would rather pay 15 mil for someone younger with potential, have you heard of this Cornelius guy?
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Re: Major bid for a striker - Revealed as Troy Deeney
People have been going on about Zohore, Danny Ward and Madine in this thread as if they were the only scoring options we have. I make it that if you include players who have been turning out solely for the Development team so far, we've lost 13 goals from last season's squad;-
Pilkington 5 in all competitions,
Tomlin 1
Bogle 3
Halford 1
Bryson 2
Grujic 1
and brought in 33
Reid 21 in all competitions
Murphy 11
Cunningham 1
Of course, it's tougher to score goals in the Premier League than the Championship, but I'd say those figures show that we are better equipped to do so now than we were back in May. Given the same sort of goalscoring opportunities in this coming season as we had in 17/18, we should be able to score more goals this time around. The trouble is, that, as things stand, we aren't going to get as many chances as last year for a couple of reasons. First, we're going to be up against better opposition and, second, we've lost three players from what was a very ordinary midfield for a promotion winning team and not replaced them yet.
This is why, if we have got £15 million to spend, I'd much rather see it go on one or two midfielders than a striker - I'm not saying we couldn't do with another striker, but the need for a midfield player(s) is greater.
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Re: Major bid for a striker - Revealed as Troy Deeney
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Re: Major bid for a striker - Revealed as Troy Deeney
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spooky Tree
If the profile of him is correct.
A hard working, level headed guy who is a team player and goal scorer/ maker.
Then he is the risk that we should take.
The cost maybe more, the wages may be more but the players will welcome his addition as long as he performs.
Similarly. The players are said to recognise that we need a player of stature in the midfield. Again they will welcome the right person.
It’s time to spend.
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Re: Major bid for a striker - Revealed as Troy Deeney
I’m not sure Zohore and Madine will welcome his addition.
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Re: Major bid for a striker - Revealed as Troy Deeney
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fine Lines
I’m not sure Zohore and Madine will welcome his addition.
Warnock has said all summer he wants a striker. They've got to rise to the challenge, hopefully it spurs them on. If not, they'll be sold.
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Re: Major bid for a striker - Revealed as Troy Deeney
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
People have been going on about Zohore, Danny Ward and Madine in this thread as if they were the only scoring options we have. I make it that if you include players who have been turning out solely for the Development team so far, we've lost 13 goals from last season's squad;-
Pilkington 5 in all competitions,
Tomlin 1
Bogle 3
Halford 1
Bryson 2
Grujic 1
and brought in 33
Reid 21 in all competitions
Murphy 11
Cunningham 1
Of course, it's tougher to score goals in the Premier League than the Championship, but I'd say those figures show that we are better equipped to do so now than we were back in May. Given the same sort of goalscoring opportunities in this coming season as we had in 17/18, we should be able to score more goals this time around. The trouble is, that, as things stand, we aren't going to get as many chances as last year for a couple of reasons. First, we're going to be up against better opposition and, second, we've lost three players from what was a very ordinary midfield for a promotion winning team and not replaced them yet.
This is why, if we have got £15 million to spend, I'd much rather see it go on one or two midfielders than a striker - I'm not saying we couldn't do with another striker, but the need for a midfield player(s) is greater.
Do you regard Murphy and Reid as strikers? For me they’re midfield players with Reid playing as the most forward but still fundamentally a midfield player.
At this stage I don’t think there is a greater need for a midfielder than a striker. I do think we need some defensive midfield resource but think we have enough creativity with what we’ve got already.
I think we would benefit from an upgraded Madine - someone like Deeney (although I still think there’s more to come from Madine) but would prefer someone with real pace to play closer to Zohore who can finish (perhaps that’s Murphy if we don’t get someone)
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Re: Major bid for a striker - Revealed as Troy Deeney
Quote:
Originally Posted by
StraightOuttaCanton
Do you regard Murphy and Reid as strikers? For me they’re midfield players with Reid playing as the most forward but still fundamentally a midfield player.
At this stage I don’t think there is a greater need for a midfielder than a striker. I do think we need some defensive midfield resource but think we have enough creativity with what we’ve got already.
I think we would benefit from an upgraded Madine - someone like Deeney (although I still think there’s more to come from Madine) but would prefer someone with real pace to play closer to Zohore who can finish (perhaps that’s Murphy if we don’t get someone)
We've just signed a couple of players who scored thirty between them in the Championship last season - whether they are classed as strikers or not doesn't really bother me. We've plenty of players in the squad who got to or close to the ten goal mark last season and we've got at least one centreback who'll be able to score goals in the Premier League if the dead ball service he gets is good enough.
Regarding creativity, I think our midfield is in desperate need of that commodity, but I get the feeling that our manager thinks it's a somewhat overrated aspect of the game and so it's quite a low priority with him. However. even if you aren't looking to play with a Whitts like passer, I think you would still like to pass the ball to a team mate most of the time and that was something we were remarkably bad at for a promotion winning team.
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Re: Major bid for a striker - Revealed as Troy Deeney
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
We've just signed a couple of players who scored thirty between them in the Championship last season - whether they are classed as strikers or not doesn't really bother me. We've plenty of players in the squad who got to or close to the ten goal mark last season and we've got at least one centreback who'll be able to score goals in the Premier League if the dead ball service he gets is good enough.
Regarding creativity, I think our midfield is in desperate need of that commodity, but I get the feeling that our manager thinks it's a somewhat overrated aspect of the game and so it's quite a low priority with him. However. even if you aren't looking to play with a Whitts like passer, I think you would still like to pass the ball to a team mate most of the time and that was something we were remarkably bad at for a promotion winning team.
What does passing the ball mean to you? If it’s tippy tappy possession then I don’t see much value. If it’s trying a long pass to the wings then I agree, but to execute that effectively is far more difficult than short passes. To be effective with Neil’s game plan you need out and out pace - either to create the space out wide or to run at players with speed, committing defenders and then slipping a pass to a supporting player with pace.
I think we have pace in the squad to execute his game plan. It might not work but a plan based more on passing would require a much bigger overhaul of the squad. What you appear to be suggesting has, in my mind, to evolve over a number of seasons. We need a ball winning midfielder who can find players with pace as pace and fitness will be our two most important footballing criteria along with team spirit
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Re: Major bid for a striker - Revealed as Troy Deeney
Quote:
Originally Posted by
StraightOuttaCanton
What does passing the ball mean to you? If it’s tippy tappy possession then I don’t see much value. If it’s trying a long pass to the wings then I agree, but to execute that effectively is far more difficult than short passes. To be effective with Neil’s game plan you need out and out pace - either to create the space out wide or to run at players with speed, committing defenders and then slipping a pass to a supporting player with pace.
I think we have pace in the squad to execute his game plan. It might not work but a plan based more on passing would require a much bigger overhaul of the squad. What you appear to be suggesting has, in my mind, to evolve over a number of seasons. We need a ball winning midfielder who can find players with pace as pace and fitness will be our two most important footballing criteria along with team spirit
Like I said in my second paragraph, I would like to see a lot more creativity in our midfield, but I also accept that we aren't going to play in a way which allows the sort of creativity I'd like to see. I'm not talking about "tippy tappy" though, even Neil Warnock criticised our passing at times last season and the stats back this view up because they were very poor for a side that came second in the league. Even a team which does not put the same value on passing the ball as most others do still need to be able to get the ball from player A to player B to player C at times simply to relieve the pressure you come under when the ball keeps on coming back at you all of the time because you cannot retain possession when attempting simple passes - there were a lot of times when that happened to us in the Championship and it's going to happen far more in the Premier League unless we can pass the ball better.
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Re: Major bid for a striker - Revealed as Troy Deeney
We only play a passing game in the final third to be fair.
Wolves, Fulham etc pass the ball around all over the pitch, a lot of the time aimlessly.
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Re: Major bid for a striker - Revealed as Troy Deeney
Sky Sports reporting this morning that Watford have no intention of selling Deeney.