Colwill

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Absolutely. The number of youngsters we've had breaking into the first team and establishing a regular place has been shocking for far too many years.

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I think the difference in the past couple of seasons is that we've made an effort to give youngsters a chance where we haven't before. TOBW was talking about Bristol City giving a 19-year-old his league debut recently but I think we've given two 18-year-olds, four 19-year-olds and five 20-year-olds their debuts (plus a 17-year-old in the League Cup) in the last few years. Some young loan signings too.

It feels like the club are finally saying to youngsters 'if you're good enough you'll get a chance' but those chances haven't been fully taken yet, for one reason or another. I know TOBW will say the answer is to just keep giving them more chances but I don't think it's as simple as that.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

By the way, I'd be tempted to start him on Friday. What have we got to lose?

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I'm not wandering into that cul-de sac with you at this time of night. I'd be surprised if Ojo gets another start but with so many fitness issues I wouldn't like to guess who will play or how we'll set up on Friday.

Colwill has to start on Friday, hopefully with Kaba and Ettete in front of him

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Originally Posted by Loramski

I think the difference in the past couple of seasons is that we've made an effort to give youngsters a chance where we haven't before. TOBW was talking about Bristol City giving a 19-year-old his league debut recently but I think we've given two 18-year-olds, four 19-year-olds and five 20-year-olds their debuts (plus a 17-year-old in the League Cup) in the last few years. Some young loan signings too.

It feels like the club are finally saying to youngsters 'if you're good enough you'll get a chance' but those chances haven't been fully taken yet, for one reason or another. I know TOBW will say the answer is to just keep giving them more chances but I don't think it's as simple as that.

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The point about Taylor-Clarke of Bristol City is more that he was with us, but decided he'd have a better chance of succeeding at Bristol City - based on what has happened with Academy products of both clubs over the past decade or so, who can say he didn't make the right decision?

You list the youngsters who've been given debuts by City recently, but we all know most of them got their chances over a relatively short period under the management of McCarthy and Morison and, with typical short termism, the emphasis has now again in the last year or so.

Regarding Colwill, can I ask how many game changers you think we have in the current squad? For me, there's Robinson and Philogene, who else is there? This manager, and Hudson, appear to think that Ojo and Rinomhota are our best bets to play in something relating to a number ten role. Ojo very occasionally shows that talent to do so, but his football intelligence seems almost non existent, Rinomhota is just a runner and tackler who tends to keep his passing simple - I think there's a place for him in our side in their current fight, but not pushed forward to play as a creator.

One thing last year's side had over this one was their ability to turn 1-0 deficits, mostly away from home, into 2-1 wins. Colwill was instrumental in us doing that at Forest and QPR and, although the scoring went differently, he was prominent in the win at Luton as well. Colwill was a game changer for us last season, as was Isaak Davies in the home win over Huddersfield where we came from a goal down to win, and yet we've got to a situation where a team which could well set a club lowest goals scored in a season record is relying on the likes of Ojo and Rinomhota to provide the creative spark we so clearly lack - you could not make it up!

If I could wish one thing for Colwill, and Davies, for the rest of their current contracts, it is that they both have a full pre season behind them whatever division we're in next season. Colwill's pre season for 21/22 was disrupted and it was virtually non existent this time around, while Steve Morison's decision to bring Davies on at Derby in our final game of last season after he'd had a hamstring problem which, promptly, flared up within five minutes causing him to miss his pre season and, effectively, be playing catch up this season was a shocking one which has set his career back.

The days of talented youngsters coming through the system are over. Until something is done about bigger clubs poaching our most talented youngsters we'll be left with the ones no one else are interested in.

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Originally Posted by Bald Barry Bastad

The days of talented youngsters coming through the system are over. Until something is done about bigger clubs poaching our most talented youngsters we'll be left with the ones no one else are interested in.

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City currently have a young player Burnley bid around £2 million for last summer, so perhaps your assessment is somewhat pessimistic.

Not sure anybody has thought of this but if he has real aspirations of breaking into that Welsh squad and staying in it would it be inconceivable for him to want out of the club should we be relegated to League 1?

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

City currently have a young player Burnley bid around £2 million for last summer, so perhaps your assessment is somewhat pessimistic.

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The last few years would suggest it's more realistic. And who is coming through when the best players are continually poached.

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Originally Posted by 2b2bdoo

Big Ralls fan previously but he just doesn’t have it anymore. He’s still a solid player but doesn’t offer enough defensively or in attack and to add his passing is hit and miss.

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I'd hate to see how you describe someone who isn't a solid player :hehe:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

The point about Taylor-Clarke of Bristol City is more that he was with us, but decided he'd have a better chance of succeeding at Bristol City - based on what has happened with Academy products of both clubs over the past decade or so, who can say he didn't make the right decision?

You list the youngsters who've been given debuts by City recently, but we all know most of them got their chances over a relatively short period under the management of McCarthy and Morison and, with typical short termism, the emphasis has now again in the last year or so.

Regarding Colwill, can I ask how many game changers you think we have in the current squad? For me, there's Robinson and Philogene, who else is there? This manager, and Hudson, appear to think that Ojo and Rinomhota are our best bets to play in something relating to a number ten role. Ojo very occasionally shows that talent to do so, but his football intelligence seems almost non existent, Rinomhota is just a runner and tackler who tends to keep his passing simple - I think there's a place for him in our side in their current fight, but not pushed forward to play as a creator.

One thing last year's side had over this one was their ability to turn 1-0 deficits, mostly away from home, into 2-1 wins. Colwill was instrumental in us doing that at Forest and QPR and, although the scoring went differently, he was prominent in the win at Luton as well. Colwill was a game changer for us last season, as was Isaak Davies in the home win over Huddersfield where we came from a goal down to win, and yet we've got to a situation where a team which could well set a club lowest goals scored in a season record is relying on the likes of Ojo and Rinomhota to provide the creative spark we so clearly lack - you could not make it up!

If I could wish one thing for Colwill, and Davies, for the rest of their current contracts, it is that they both have a full pre season behind them whatever division we're in next season. Colwill's pre season for 21/22 was disrupted and it was virtually non existent this time around, while Steve Morison's decision to bring Davies on at Derby in our final game of last season after he'd had a hamstring problem which, promptly, flared up within five minutes causing him to miss his pre season and, effectively, be playing catch up this season was a shocking one which has set his career back.

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Good post, that's an excellent point about pre-season.

I saw both your previous posts about Taylor-Clarke, Sludge managed to get both threads locked so I wasn't able to reply. In the first one you said 'does anyone seriously believe he would be playing Championship football at the age of 18 if he had stayed with us?'. There was more of the same in the second one with a similar question asked and a 'most of us know what the answer would be to that' to follow.

I couldn't follow the reasoning. As I said, we've given so many debuts to lads around his age recently (he seems to be 19 by the way). Tom Davies was 17; Colwill and King 18 (Harris too back in the day, incidentally); Evans, Zimba, Denham and Bagan 19; Isaak Davies, Bowen, Sang, D'Almeida and Tanner 20. McGuinness and Etete were 20 when they started here too. Why wouldn't we have given Taylor-Clarke a game?

You also said 'saying our youngsters have not been good enough is being too simplistic'. I don't follow that logic either, surely that's the whole point. I totally agree that some of the selections and set-ups have been baffling this season but four different managers have come to similar conclusions up till now with regards to Colwill, Davies and Bagan, there seems to be something to it. Hopefully Colwill's assist on Saturday and Isaak's goal today will boost their confidence for the run-in when they're called upon.

Interesting thread. A number of posters have found it odd but I thought Tuerto's (and TLG's) point was a good one, other posters have touched on it too. The hype of the youngsters on here (I've been guilty of this in the past) seems to be grating on a few and now there's a bit of a backlash. I don't see it as a problem. It's never an issue at games as far as I'm aware, everyone's behind them.

Hip injury now.

This lad is going to have bed sores off the treatment table if things don't change.

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

Hip injury now.

This lad is going to have bed sores off the treatment table if things don't change.

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an awful lot of weight on those hips..

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Originally Posted by Loramski

Good post, that's an excellent point about pre-season.

I saw both your previous posts about Taylor-Clarke, Sludge managed to get both threads locked so I wasn't able to reply. In the first one you said 'does anyone seriously believe he would be playing Championship football at the age of 18 if he had stayed with us?'. There was more of the same in the second one with a similar question asked and a 'most of us know what the answer would be to that' to follow.

I couldn't follow the reasoning. As I said, we've given so many debuts to lads around his age recently (he seems to be 19 by the way). Tom Davies was 17; Colwill and King 18 (Harris too back in the day, incidentally); Evans, Zimba, Denham and Bagan 19; Isaak Davies, Bowen, Sang, D'Almeida and Tanner 20. McGuinness and Etete were 20 when they started here too. Why wouldn't we have given Taylor-Clarke a game?

You also said 'saying our youngsters have not been good enough is being too simplistic'. I don't follow that logic either, surely that's the whole point. I totally agree that some of the selections and set-ups have been baffling this season but four different managers have come to similar conclusions up till now with regards to Colwill, Davies and Bagan, there seems to be something to it. Hopefully Colwill's assist on Saturday and Isaak's goal today will boost their confidence for the run-in when they're called upon.

Interesting thread. A number of posters have found it odd but I thought Tuerto's (and TLG's) point was a good one, other posters have touched on it too. The hype of the youngsters on here (I've been guilty of this in the past) seems to be grating on a few and now there's a bit of a backlash. I don't see it as a problem. It's never an issue at games as far as I'm aware, everyone's behind them.

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Youngsters have always been hyped, a consequence of the academy setups being shit. Kids looking good against other kids doesn't mean they can step up to pro level, the old reserve league setup was far better for that purpose.

McCarthy gave a load of kids debuts, but our u23 managers in Morison and Hudson, whose role is to bring kids through, both showed no faith in them whatsoever. They and Lamouchi have gone the expediency route, preferring experience (unless the kid is from Everton and not very good defensively).

There's been zero consistency in approach. Bagan played well last season and got dropped. Lamouchi wants to give him a new deal yet the groundstaff are serious contenders to be picked over him.

We need to make a decision, either take the Academy seriously which means employing a manager willing to pick youngsters and give them a run of games, accept they'll make mistakes, or simply close it down and pick up rejects from other Academies.

Hudson was never u23 manager

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Originally Posted by logic

We need to make a decision, either take the Academy seriously which means employing a manager willing to pick youngsters and give them a run of games, accept they'll make mistakes, or simply close it down and pick up rejects from other Academies.

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We are not going to do that in the position we are in, Mid table and safe, sure let them have a go, though the lure of a play-off spot would be too great and would we risk that ?

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...needs-26694820

I think Glen Williams has got it right here.