Evidence of Extraterrestrial Life could be revealed within the next month

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

I'll stick with the Name on the lips of theists and skeptics alike, the Christ who confirmed he is the Way, the Truth & the Life.
Narrow yes!

Alive...very much so.
And there's the difference.

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Of Course Mohammed, Buddha and Confucius were mere enlightened mortals. Jesus, on the other hand is God him/her/itself. There's an unfair balance here.

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

Why don't you ask him, he's the architect of your world view?

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I'm now on the same side of the fence as the talking snake? You certainly believe in any old tosh in your favoured tome. Unbelievably laughable.

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

Of Course Mohammed, Buddha and Confucius were mere enlightened mortals. Jesus, on the other hand is God him/her/itself. There's an unfair balance here.

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Indeed there is :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

Indeed there is :thumbup:

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You are definitely unbalanced

A right wing God botherer


Actually I know loads like you , all good and holy on the outside , down to church every Sunday then ....whoosh ....vote for a right wing conservative party ...and whisper " you can't trust those Muslims you know ...unlike US "

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

The religious metaphor of a narrow path exists in Buddhism, Lao Tzu and in African cultures as well as your own, you know.

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Unsurprising then, for what maybe a universal truth?

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

You are definitely unbalanced

A right wing God botherer


Actually I know loads like you , all good and holy on the outside , down to church every Sunday then ....whoosh ....vote for a right wing conservative party ...and whisper " you can't trust those Muslims you know ...unlike US "

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I know your reply is aimed at TP but I would like to respond from my own perspective.

I feel sorry for you fella as it seems your view of Christianity has been shaped by these apparent “loads of people” that you know, who are all right wing hypocrites posing as “Christians”. I am pretty sure that there are plenty of hypocrites in society in general but as Christians we are clearly more likely to be targets of such criticism as we have to be whiter than white of course. Let he who is without sin etc.....

AFAIK (I may have missed it) you have not accepted my invitation to a face to face chat yet, but the offer is still there. It is very easy to be a keyboard warrior (applies to me too of course!) but I think if two people with totally opposed viewpoints meet face to face then a more rational, sensible dialogue can take place even if, in the end, they agree to disagree.

I can't find it now to quote but in one of your recent posts you suggested that it would be good if someone like Gofer (i.e. me) could come back after my death and tell you about life after death. Sadly, if it's true what it will be like in heaven, why on earth would I want to come back to this world with all its pain, hatred, violence and injustice? I suspect even if I did, you would simply dismiss it as fake news or an hallucination anyway!

You mention Muslims. As you may remember from previous posts I said my wife and I were instrumental in setting up a group which rescued a Syrian refugee family under the H.M.Gov./UNHCR Community Sponsorship scheme some 7 years ago and helped them settle down to a new life in west Wales. They are a lovely couple with four children who lost everything in Syria and we have become great friends. Clearly they are Muslims and so we have some fundamental differences when it comes to matters of faith.

Whilst they recognise Jesus as being a great prophet they do not accept that he was God in human form and they believe that their salvation depends on the good works they have done in their lives. It's rather like an old fashioned weighing scales where if the good deeds outweigh the bad then it tips you into the “ok” bracket but if the reverse, well.....it's good night Vienna! They have no concept of the grace of God and hence are bemused when we say that good works are not important* and faith in Jesus is all that is required for salvation. Having been in the UK for 7 years now they are very much aware of the attitude of people towards them and although they do not accept Christianity (yet!) they recognise that there is something different about us, like going the proverbial extra mile.

I hope that one day you will meet a “real” Christian who you can talk to face to face and learn what makes them tick.

*Christians do do good works of course, not that they HAVE to but because as Christ's representatives they WANT to, as Jesus himself did.

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

I know your reply is aimed at TP but I would like to respond from my own perspective.

I feel sorry for you fella as it seems your view of Christianity has been shaped by these apparent “loads of people” that you know, who are all right wing hypocrites posing as “Christians”. I am pretty sure that there are plenty of hypocrites in society in general but as Christians we are clearly more likely to be targets of such criticism as we have to be whiter than white of course. Let he who is without sin etc.....

AFAIK (I may have missed it) you have not accepted my invitation to a face to face chat yet, but the offer is still there. It is very easy to be a keyboard warrior (applies to me too of course!) but I think if two people with totally opposed viewpoints meet face to face then a more rational, sensible dialogue can take place even if, in the end, they agree to disagree.

I can't find it now to quote but in one of your recent posts you suggested that it would be good if someone like Gofer (i.e. me) could come back after my death and tell you about life after death. Sadly, if it's true what it will be like in heaven, why on earth would I want to come back to this world with all its pain, hatred, violence and injustice? I suspect even if I did, you would simply dismiss it as fake news or an hallucination anyway!

You mention Muslims. As you may remember from previous posts I said my wife and I were instrumental in setting up a group which rescued a Syrian refugee family under the H.M.Gov./UNHCR Community Sponsorship scheme some 7 years ago and helped them settle down to a new life in west Wales. They are a lovely couple with four children who lost everything in Syria and we have become great friends. Clearly they are Muslims and so we have some fundamental differences when it comes to matters of faith.

Whilst they recognise Jesus as being a great prophet they do not accept that he was God in human form and they believe that their salvation depends on the good works they have done in their lives. It's rather like an old fashioned weighing scales where if the good deeds outweigh the bad then it tips you into the “ok” bracket but if the reverse, well.....it's good night Vienna! They have no concept of the grace of God and hence are bemused when we say that good works are not important* and faith in Jesus is all that is required for salvation. Having been in the UK for 7 years now they are very much aware of the attitude of people towards them and although they do not accept Christianity (yet!) they recognise that there is something different about us, like going the proverbial extra mile.

I hope that one day you will meet a “real” Christian who you can talk to face to face and learn what makes them tick.

*Christians do do good works of course, not that they HAVE to but because as Christ's representatives they WANT to, as Jesus himself did.

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You are welcome to share a cuppa with me but none of this god stuff or you are out the door

He that is without sin , the world is a terrible place etc , it's grinding

You don't need to feel sorry for me , it's I that should feel sorry for you

Spending all this time wasting effort and energy worrying about something that doesn't exist

If you KNOW he does exist do all the caring and kind stuff that millions and millions of people do ......without going to church , being evangelical etc ....and covering up their fear of death and the afterlife

Think of all the other spare time you would have ?

I like Heavy Metal.....apparently a few of my kind like the devil , Satan and all that ....I think its all complete rubbish .....but if I believed in it all I wouldnt go round trying to convert people into late night virgin sacrifice

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

You are welcome to share a cuppa with me but none of this god stuff or you are out the door

He that is without sin , the world is a terrible place etc , it's grinding

You don't need to feel sorry for me , it's I that should feel sorry for you

Spending all this time wasting effort and energy worrying about something that doesn't exist

If you KNOW he does exist do all the caring and kind stuff that millions and millions of people do ......without going to church , being evangelical etc ....and covering up their fear of death and the afterlife

Think of all the other spare time you would have ?

I like Heavy Metal.....apparently a few of my kind like the devil , Satan and all that ....I think its all complete rubbish .....but if I believed in it all I wouldnt go round trying to convert people into late night virgin sacrifice

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You're on. How, when, where is the question?

Re: worrying. On the contrary I don't worry at all - I know where my future is!

Re: doing good works. That's great that millions do. I believe it's a God given gift within each human being but not everyone puts it into practice or acknowledges where it comes from. Sadly you can't bribe/buy your way in.

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

You're on. How, when, where is the question?

The deal is no religious talk

Re: worrying. On the contrary I don't worry at all - I know where my future is!

No you don't, the only certainty is that you are going to die

Re: doing good works. That's great that millions do. I believe it's a God given gift within each human being but not everyone puts it into practice or acknowledges where it comes from. Sadly you can't bribe/buy your way in.

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So those that DON'T believe in God but are dodging Israeli bombs in Gaza to provide medical aid or in Africa working on irrigation projects or teaching poor kids in Indian villages .....these people are doing these good works because it's a gift from God ?

If you seriously believe this then it's utterly pointless carrying on this farce 😆

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

So those that DON'T believe in God but are dodging Israeli bombs in Gaza to provide medical aid or in Africa working on irrigation projects or teaching poor kids in Indian villages .....these people are doing these good works because it's a gift from God ?

If you seriously believe this then it's utterly pointless carrying on this farce 😆

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I believe every human being has an in-built sense of altruism/empathy which comes from the creator, God, but whether everyone chooses to use it or not is another matter regardless of whether they believe in God or not.

How would you explain why people such as the ones you describe put their own lives at risk to help people that they are almost certainly not related to or indeed are probably complete strangers? Hardly what you could call an evolutionary advantage I would think.

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

I believe every human being has an in-built sense of altruism/empathy which comes from the creator, God, but whether everyone chooses to use it or not is another matter regardless of whether they believe in God or not.

How would you explain why people such as the ones you describe put their own lives at risk to help people that they are almost certainly not related to or indeed are probably complete strangers? Hardly what you could call an evolutionary advantage I would think.

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How can you claim that every good deed is because of god,even if you do not believe at all?

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

I believe every human being has an in-built sense of altruism/empathy which comes from the creator, God, but whether everyone chooses to use it or not is another matter regardless of whether they believe in God or not.

How would you explain why people such as the ones you describe put their own lives at risk to help people that they are almost certainly not related to or indeed are probably complete strangers? Hardly what you could call an evolutionary advantage I would think.

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I believe every human being has an in-built sense of altruism/empathy which comes from their humanity. We are social creatures who thrive best when we co-operate. We have a strong sense of communal identity and common purpose that goes beyond species survival. Our altruism is no more the product of some supernatural being (amplified by self-satisfied bible-bashing acolytes) than our sense of humour or ability to love other people.

I have no belief in any religion and no faith in imaginary beings, paradise or hell (apart from on earth). But from the way you have described the belief system of your Syrian Muslim friends, their view of scales of good and bad deeds determining their fate in an afterlife, although nonsense, is much more attractive than the Christian one you (and Truthpaste) describe of 'believe in God and you're in' regardless of how you conduct yourself. At least your Syrian friends are trying to live a 'good' life, whereas what you have described is selfish conformism with a particular creed. From what you have posted over the years it seems you try to live a charitable life regardless (whether that is 'good' or not is a value judgement) but that does not appear to be a requirement in your faith.

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

I believe every human being has an in-built sense of altruism/empathy which comes from the creator, God, but whether everyone chooses to use it or not is another matter regardless of whether they believe in God or not.

How would you explain why people such as the ones you describe put their own lives at risk to help people that they are almost certainly not related to or indeed are probably complete strangers? Hardly what you could call an evolutionary advantage I would think.

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This is where it gets beyond a laugh for me

Your God gives every single human being a "gift " to be able to help others......impossible but OK

Yet he doesn't have the POWER to stop war , famine , flood etc.......which kills loads of innocent people ...including the very kind people who have given up their time and often lives to go out to Africa and the middle east ......to help these poor people .....and they can only do this because God has given them this gift ?

Absolute nonsense.....you belive that ? .....

I can't take Christians seriously when it's faced up to and this is the response

If God is that great he would stop wars and disaster in the first place ....he obviously can't.....instead of giving people the power to do good things and go to troubled places to help unfortunate human beings in trouble....he clearly cannot and does not either

If there is a war in the middle east and a village gets bombed and a young British doctor gives up his holiday to go and help out in a makeshift hospital ......and a bomb fired by Israel kills him .....

It's not an act of God that he went there, it's not human sins that have made innocent people die ....both the locals and the doctors killed out there trying to treat injured kids .....God has nothing to do with any of this

It's all a myth , you God believers want to take the nice bits to praise God....lovely kind doctor helping the poor ....that's God's work that is ! ......horrible bomb injuries to young kids in gaza .....oh that's human sin , the devil, nothing to do with God, he gives US the choice 🙏 😆, what a load or rubbish

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Originally Posted by jon1959

I believe every human being has an in-built sense of altruism/empathy which comes from their humanity. We are social creatures who thrive best when we co-operate. We have a strong sense of communal identity and common purpose that goes beyond species survival. Our altruism is no more the product of some supernatural being (amplified by self-satisfied bible-bashing acolytes) than our sense of humour or ability to love other people.

I have no belief in any religion and no faith in imaginary beings, paradise or hell (apart from on earth). But from the way you have described the belief system of your Syrian Muslim friends, their view of scales of good and bad deeds determining their fate in an afterlife, although nonsense, is much more attractive than the Christian one you (and Truthpaste) describe of 'believe in God and you're in' regardless of how you conduct yourself. At least your Syrian friends are trying to live a 'good' life, whereas what you have described is selfish conformism with a particular creed. From what you have posted over the years it seems you try to live a charitable life regardless (whether that is 'good' or not is a value judgement) but that does not appear to be a requirement in your faith.

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Altruism transcends the very narrow confines of indidual religions and immersing oneself in other cultures is enriching and rewarding. It's hugely amusing to hear on here that non-Christians on this planet (the majority) are blessed with the quality of altruism courtesy of a god they don't believe in and who condemns them to eternal hell. It's so very puerile, parochial and amusing.

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

I believe every human being has an in-built sense of altruism/empathy which comes from the creator, God, but whether everyone chooses to use it or not is another matter regardless of whether they believe in God or not.

How would you explain why people such as the ones you describe put their own lives at risk to help people that they are almost certainly not related to or indeed are probably complete strangers? Hardly what you could call an evolutionary advantage I would think.

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Science has some very good theories to explain that in fact there is indeed an evolutionary advantage in altruism.

Self interest best serves those who possess the greatest abilities to survive and procreate. However it is detrimental to those lower down the food chain; they are more likely to suffer the blight of diminished resources. That results in only a small pool of survivors who are likely to be alpha males. Within a species population of lower intelligence this works but doesn't favour intelligence, it largely favours physical strength.

Within a species population of higher intelligence that very same quality encourages cooperation and altruism because it's a much better way to ensure survival of a larger group. Furthermore it favours intelligence and problem solving over brute physical force. In a nutshell, human sapiens have flourished because of cooperation rather than competition. It's not too difficult to see how an ethical framework and guidelines then arise.

Not sure this scary life form is extraterrestrial or not.... but it's not normal. Tucker Carlson I mean!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...n-demon-attack

Tucker Carlson, the former CNN and Fox News political chat host, has said he was “physically mauled” by a demon a year and a half ago, in an assault that he says left him bleeding and with scars from “claw marks”.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

I believe every human being has an in-built sense of altruism/empathy which comes from their humanity. We are social creatures who thrive best when we co-operate. We have a strong sense of communal identity and common purpose that goes beyond species survival. Our altruism is no more the product of some supernatural being (amplified by self-satisfied bible-bashing acolytes) than our sense of humour or ability to love other people.

I have no belief in any religion and no faith in imaginary beings, paradise or hell (apart from on earth). But from the way you have described the belief system of your Syrian Muslim friends, their view of scales of good and bad deeds determining their fate in an afterlife, although nonsense, is much more attractive than the Christian one you (and Truthpaste) describe of 'believe in God and you're in' regardless of how you conduct yourself. At least your Syrian friends are trying to live a 'good' life, whereas what you have described is selfish conformism with a particular creed. From what you have posted over the years it seems you try to live a charitable life regardless (whether that is 'good' or not is a value judgement) but that does not appear to be a requirement in your faith.

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You say “I believe every human being has an in-built sense of altruism/empathy which comes from their humanity”. (I suppose I could ask where does our humanity come from, but let's leave it there eh!). OK, so that's your belief then. I have a different belief.

You completely miss the point about “good works” but maybe that's down to me in not explaining it properly - I'll have another go. You say I “believe in God and you're in' regardless of how you conduct yourself”. How could I possibly claim to be a follower of Jesus if I conduct myself in ways that are not compatible with the example he has set me? What I was trying to say is, doing good works as a Christian is not a legalistic requirement in the same way it is not a legalistic requirement to love and care for a very close friend but it's something that you would naturally want to do and, crucially, not to expect any reward for doing it.

The Muslim scales analogy works along the same lines as gaining Brownie points to win favours. I agree it sounds quite appealing and I guess Christians would pass with flying colours anyway but that is not the point.

You may not be aware of the quotation “May I never boast about anything except the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ”. (Galatians 6 v14). Consequently I try not to boast (brag) about the things I do/have done, and so I have only shared some things which have had a direct bearing on a particular theme in a thread. Only God truly knows me, my heart and my motivation. God also knows I am not perfect but on his mercy I depend!!

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

This is where it gets beyond a laugh for me

Your God gives every single human being a "gift " to be able to help others......impossible but OK

Yet he doesn't have the POWER to stop war , famine , flood etc.......which kills loads of innocent people ...including the very kind people who have given up their time and often lives to go out to Africa and the middle east ......to help these poor people .....and they can only do this because God has given them this gift ?

Absolute nonsense.....you belive that ? .....

I can't take Christians seriously when it's faced up to and this is the response

If God is that great he would stop wars and disaster in the first place ....he obviously can't.....instead of giving people the power to do good things and go to troubled places to help unfortunate human beings in trouble....he clearly cannot and does not either

If there is a war in the middle east and a village gets bombed and a young British doctor gives up his holiday to go and help out in a makeshift hospital ......and a bomb fired by Israel kills him .....

It's not an act of God that he went there, it's not human sins that have made innocent people die ....both the locals and the doctors killed out there trying to treat injured kids .....God has nothing to do with any of this

It's all a myth , you God believers want to take the nice bits to praise God....lovely kind doctor helping the poor ....that's God's work that is ! ......horrible bomb injuries to young kids in gaza .....oh that's human sin , the devil, nothing to do with God, he gives US the choice �� ��, what a load or rubbish

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Sorry fella but I am not going to bother to waste any more of my time responding to your latest diatribe as I have tried to answer the same old tired points so many times. Time to shake the dust off my proverbial sandals here I think.

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

Science has some very good theories to explain that in fact there is indeed an evolutionary advantage in altruism.

Self interest best serves those who possess the greatest abilities to survive and procreate. However it is detrimental to those lower down the food chain; they are more likely to suffer the blight of diminished resources. That results in only a small pool of survivors who are likely to be alpha males. Within a species population of lower intelligence this works but doesn't favour intelligence, it largely favours physical strength.

Within a species population of higher intelligence that very same quality encourages cooperation and altruism because it's a much better way to ensure survival of a larger group. Furthermore it favours intelligence and problem solving over brute physical force. In a nutshell, human sapiens have flourished because of cooperation rather than competition. It's not too difficult to see how an ethical framework and guidelines then arise.

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Oh really, like Russia vs Ukraine, Israel vs Hamas/Hezbollah, Sudanese Armed Forces (SAF) vs the paramilitary Rapid Support Forces , Iran vs Israel, plus about 110 other armed conflicts going on around the world (according to https://geneva-academy.ch/galleries/...rmed-conflicts)

So much for the “ascent of man” eh!

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

Oh really, like Russia vs Ukraine, Israel vs Hamas/Hezbollah, Sudanese Armed Forces (SAF) vs the paramilitary Rapid Support Forces , Iran vs Israel, plus about 110 other armed conflicts going on around the world (according to https://geneva-academy.ch/galleries/...rmed-conflicts)

So much for the “ascent of man” eh!

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This is the eternal battle within evolution. The battle of the human psyche between the self and the universal. It's not surprising it throws up blips from time to time.

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

Wow! It's supposed to coincide with the US Election result.

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

You say “I believe every human being has an in-built sense of altruism/empathy which comes from their humanity”. (I suppose I could ask where does our humanity come from, but let's leave it there eh!). OK, so that's your belief then. I have a different belief.

You completely miss the point about “good works” but maybe that's down to me in not explaining it properly - I'll have another go. You say I “believe in God and you're in' regardless of how you conduct yourself”. How could I possibly claim to be a follower of Jesus if I conduct myself in ways that are not compatible with the example he has set me? What I was trying to say is, doing good works as a Christian is not a legalistic requirement in the same way it is not a legalistic requirement to love and care for a very close friend but it's something that you would naturally want to do and, crucially, not to expect any reward for doing it.

The Muslim scales analogy works along the same lines as gaining Brownie points to win favours. I agree it sounds quite appealing and I guess Christians would pass with flying colours anyway but that is not the point.

You may not be aware of the quotation “May I never boast about anything except the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ”. (Galatians 6 v14). Consequently I try not to boast (brag) about the things I do/have done, and so I have only shared some things which have had a direct bearing on a particular theme in a thread. Only God truly knows me, my heart and my motivation. God also knows I am not perfect but on his mercy I depend!!

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Stop quoting from a 2500 year old book

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

Wow! It's supposed to coincide with the US Election result.

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

Sorry fella but I am not going to bother to waste any more of my time responding to your latest diatribe as I have tried to answer the same old tired points so many times. Time to shake the dust off my proverbial sandals here I think.

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Religious people like you try my patience all the time

But on this I have got you by the nuts

You have no answer to this which is why you are running away

I am relieved to be honest

Back to the OP - when do we get to learn about this extra-terrestrial life then?

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Originally Posted by stevo

Back to the OP - when do we get to learn about this extra-terrestrial life then?

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Not really sure but a couple of different sources say one of the problems is that a group from Oxford University are just waiting to confirm their results but it's been further complicated because a Chinese group say they have discovered the same. That might be why there is a political element to it.

It might be just internet talk; I wouldn't be surprised but in the meantime it's hugely exciting.

Isn’t the Tory leadership election all the evidence we need?