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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Henry Hill
Sludge you are living in fantasy land
The people have had enough of the free market and rampant capitalism
The house of cards will soon collapse
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
I remember drinking in the model inn one night yrs ago and about a dozen down on their luck types who were sleeping rough had come in for a pint.
I didn’t go down well when the barman rang the last orders bell and shouted “come on you lot. Haven’t you got homes to go to?”.
I used to drink in the Model Inn, years ago.
I hope you never tried it on with me.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
The people have had enough of the free market and rampant capitalism
The house of cards will soon collapse
I think Netflix have pulled it.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vimto
I think Netflix have pulled it.
Was it any good ?
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninianclark
I would that counter that a little, the brand new facility over in Llandough for mental health is very good and certainly meets the needs of people in the area with mental health problems.
THE issue is people who refuse treatment and instead self medicate using drugs / alcohol. It is of little wonder they become homeless - as they have refused help (for any number of reasons), their employer will eventually sack them and the mortgage company repossess etc. I had a close friend who luckily has an understanding employer - he recently decided to not take his medication - and went back on the booze - he was sectioned (again) last month and is currently back on the medication.
What people with mental health problems need is the help of the support / crash team to call on - when they have lapsed. Once they become homeless, then they almost become contactless to the authorities, which is a spiral that is hard to break free from - unless they are forced to detox - which is not possible unless they are sectioned first.
You could build them a brand new house if you want but it wont help their addiction issues
You come across like a politician who's never seen any issues like this face to face..
(Apologies if wrong, but the way that's written...)
Edit..didnt get to the part about the friend as the bit before kind of had me screaming "politician"
I do apologise.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Was it any good ?
Sadly, it was.
But hey ho.
We digress.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
[QU okOTE=dembethewarrior;4806661]You come across like a politician who's never seen any issues like this face to face..
(Apologies if wrong, but the way that's written...)
Edit..didnt get to the part about the friend as the bit before kind of had me screaming "politician"
I do apologise.[/QU
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jordi Culé
i have been banging on about container living for 24 years, since i came back from Australia, i was involved in a Scuba diving club ( i was a PADI dive instructor ) , the club had just lost its rental house and was looking at other places, they owned 4 shipping containers on some land, i said they should look at converting them to " bunk rooms " ( i had seen a guy living in one up the coast )
My brothers company almost built a development for " temp housing " in Kent, it was only going to be 30 of them in total, in 3 blocks of 5, 2 units high, with a communal courtyard / garden, the council appeared keen, but when push came to shove, it was never going to happen
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Hasn't the government just taken on £70bn of housing association debt so that they can borrow this amount to build new stock?
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Well if they have that's good news but won't make much of a dent into the millions of council homes lost due to the right to buy .......which the Tories are still pushing in England ! The Tories said to the voters we are extending the right to buy to those living in housing association properties and we will replace every property sold by building a new one .....has it happened ?........has it feck
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Walking home from work lastnight, seen a bloke I know that sleeps rough in the park. He's got to be pushing 60. Park gates either side of town get closed in the evening so this fella has to climb over when he's ready to go in.
Not that anyone deserves to be on the streets, but I'd rather be a youngster than get to that age and be out on the streets.
There are places in town, but they breathalyse them going in. I do get it to a point, but an old harmless bloke has a drink can't get in, some kid who's probably smacked up...i don't think they do a piss teat to gain entry...
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
If the UK was 'almost bankrupt' in 2010 (defined as the government being unable to pay all its debts immediately if they were all called in?) then that was true for most western governments - certainly the USA. But that technical definition is not useful or very illuminating. The official UK debt to GDP ratio in 2010 was under 70% - lower than many other western countries, and much lower than in earlier decades. If you add in the so-called 'hidden' debts or liabilities then that % rises steeply, but so it does for most other countries too. Most of the debate about unofficial debt and liabilities is so politicised that it is hard to find any figures to trust - but in any case it is not a new phenomenon.
The issue was the deficit was running at >10% of GDP, which is a course for bankruptcy in the long run.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
typically when the deficit is less than inflation adjusted growth the rising payments on debt is more than offset by the rising tax base to cover it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Your solution to defecit and low growth seems to be cuts. The alternative strategy of investing to promote growth and greater national income through government capital projects (funded by low interest borrowing) is a century old and has worked all around the world.
it is one school of thought. not every school of thought advocates it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
It may not fit with the Thatcherite 'corner shop' model of economics, but then the Chancellor of the Exchequer doesn't keep the assets and revenues of the UK in a shoe box under his bed either. Labour has been consistent in advocating a version of Keynsian economics to invest and build our way out of trouble - and has a lot of popular and academic support for its plans.
it is hard to suggest what could happened if a Keynesian model had been adopted. It may have worked, ut may not. it is all supposition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Yes, many working people voted Tory in 2010 - and 2015 - and every other election where they had a vote. They always have. A lot of people in elections vote against their own interests for a lot of complicated reasons. In my opinion it has historically been down to The Sun, The Mail and an unhealthy deference. Just maybe a few crunched the numbers and read the manifestos and thought Thatcher or Cameron were the answer. My 'out-laws' are an example.
it really is crass to suggest working people voting Tory are voting against their own best interests. you have no idea what is in the best interests of the 13.7m or so who voted Tory in this years election. People vote for a myriad of reasons and not everyone is obsessed with money in the way those on the left are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Corbyn and McDonnell are not communists. They are left social democrats. They are also - obviously - amongst that small group of MPs who have consistently not lined their own pockets (see expenses). You are entitled to disagree with them and detest their politics, but the personal attack on them and their motives is pathetic.
They are not social democrats - Blair was a social democrat, so was Brown and Milliband. Corbyn and McDonnell are very much further left. McDonnell is on R4 quite a lot and you only have to listen to him to see he is not an advocate of social democracy.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Well if they have that's good news but won't make much of a dent into the millions of council homes lost due to the right to buy .......which the Tories are still pushing in England ! The Tories said to the voters we are extending the right to buy to those living in housing association properties and we will replace every property sold by building a new one .....has it happened ?........has it feck
how does RTB affect the total number of homes available for the people living in the UK? As far as I can see the only difference is the ownership of the home and not the actual numbers of housing stock available in the UK. The requirement for social housing is the same pre and post RTB.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
The issue was the deficit was running at >10% of GDP, which is a course for bankruptcy in the long run.
typically when the deficit is less than inflation adjusted growth the rising payments on debt is more than offset by the rising tax base to cover it.
it is one school of thought. not every school of thought advocates it.
it is hard to suggest what could happened if a Keynesian model had been adopted. It may have worked, ut may not. it is all supposition.
it really is crass to suggest working people voting Tory are voting against their own best interests. you have no idea what is in the best interests of the 13.7m or so who voted Tory in this years election. People vote for a myriad of reasons and not everyone is obsessed with money in the way those on the left are.
They are not social democrats - Blair was a social democrat, so was Brown and Milliband. Corbyn and McDonnell are very much further left. McDonnell is on R4 quite a lot and you only have to listen to him to see he is not an advocate of social democracy.
:hehe:
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
:hehe:
why is it the left are always those who go on about money then?
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
why is it the left are always those who go on about money then?
My sides are splitting here.
I can't get into any sort of political debate here as I'm useless...but aren't many of these Tory rich types "leaning right" ?
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
My sides are splitting here.
I can't get into any sort of political debate here as I'm useless...but aren't many of these Tory rich types "leaning right" ?
being rich doesn't mean you bang on about wanting more money by doing nothing. The left are always going on about wanting more money and the way they get is is by changing the law, not by working harder, longer or smarter.
its not about being rich, there are plenty of no so rich who vote Tory, just like there are plenty of rich people who vote Labour it is all part of life's rich tapestry
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Goon news - The UK built more than 200,000 new homes for the first time since the financial crisis, with an increase in numbers every year since 2012.
http://www.cityam.com/275871/uk-buil...rst-time-since
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
being rich doesn't mean you bang on about wanting more money by doing nothing. The left are always going on about wanting more money and the way they get is is by changing the law, not by working harder, longer or smarter.
its not about being rich, there are plenty of no so rich who vote Tory, just like there are plenty of rich people who vote Labour it is all part of life's rich tapestry
Everything the Tories do (Not on about voters here now) is to make more money.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
Everything the Tories do (Not on about voters here now) is to make more money.
no it isn't. in fact, this Tory government has taxed more than any other in history, has increased red tape and bureaucracy more than any other and is about as business friendly as McDonnell and Corbyn.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nick
:ayatollah:
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pearcey3
Agreed.
Also a great post by Jon.
We need to get away from all this talk of austerity. Under the Tories the well off had tax cuts. It was targeted austerity aimed at the weaker in society. Bloody disgusting.
is this a fact or just left wing rhetoric? i'd be interested to see where the rich have had their taxes cut?
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Hi demb mate. The guy you see could book into a 'wet houe'. There is a few around. Hostels that allow drink or if not the drink then an intoxicated user. Dont know where you live. Plenty of older guys especialyy those who like a drink tend to make their own way. Hostels have become fuller of young people and its a headache for older types. Changes to housing benefits to under 25s havent helped with this.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
joecity
Hi demb mate. The guy you see could book into a 'wet houe'. There is a few around. Hostels that allow drink or if not the drink then an intoxicated user. Dont know where you live. Plenty of older guys especialyy those who like a drink tend to make their own way. Hostels have become fuller of young people and its a headache for older types. Changes to housing benefits to under 25s havent helped with this.
Wasn't aware of that. Bloke is harmless enough, not sure how long he's been sleeping rough, he does get spotted in a pub from time to time (I ain't going to judge that) he seems like a quiet enough fella. I'll look into it and pass the info on. It is of course possible that he doesn't want the help, but no harm passing on information.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
Wasn't aware of that. Bloke is harmless enough, not sure how long he's been sleeping rough, he does get spotted in a pub from time to time (I ain't going to judge that) he seems like a quiet enough fella. I'll look into it and pass the info on. It is of course possible that he doesn't want the help, but no harm passing on information.
That's all you can do mate. Good stuff.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
joecity
That's all you can do mate. Good stuff.
Could be any one of us one day. It's what I always tell my daughter too.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
how does RTB affect the total number of homes available for the people living in the UK? As far as I can see the only difference is the ownership of the home and not the actual numbers of housing stock available in the UK. The requirement for social housing is the same pre and post RTB.
Let's say there are 10000 council homes in a town
5000 of those , in the nice streets are sold off
The council now only has a stock of 5000 homes to provide for those in housing need , once these are passed onto the council
If you don't replace council housing that is sold like for like with new social housing , then a housing crisis develops
It really is very simple to understand , the institute of housing , housing policy experts , shelter and many other groups warned this was going to happen
What council's have left following right to buy is fewer housing to offer those in need and that which is left is often poor quality as the right to buy has been higher on the nice estates and lower on the rougher ones
The right to buy has created sink estates with poor quality housing and social problems
The need for social housing following right to buy is fecking enormous , waiting lists are massive , at an all time high for many councils
That's why so many have been forced into the badly managed private sector and the housing benefit bill has risen
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
The issue was the deficit was running at >10% of GDP, which is a course for bankruptcy in the long run.
typically when the deficit is less than inflation adjusted growth the rising payments on debt is more than offset by the rising tax base to cover it.
it is one school of thought. not every school of thought advocates it.
it is hard to suggest what could happened if a Keynesian model had been adopted. It may have worked, ut may not. it is all supposition.
it really is crass to suggest working people voting Tory are voting against their own best interests. you have no idea what is in the best interests of the 13.7m or so who voted Tory in this years election. People vote for a myriad of reasons and not everyone is obsessed with money in the way those on the left are.
They are not social democrats - Blair was a social democrat, so was Brown and Milliband. Corbyn and McDonnell are very much further left. McDonnell is on R4 quite a lot and you only have to listen to him to see he is not an advocate of social democracy.
Is this a joke ?
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
:ayatollah:
Still way short of what's required and mostly private build , we need social housing ff sake
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
is this a fact or just left wing rhetoric? i'd be interested to see where the rich have had their taxes cut?
Yes it is a fact , Jon works in housing management , he knows what he's talking about
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nick
Better but not goon!
Way short of the Tories own annual housebuilding (including conversions) target - and the number of affordable new homes for sale or for rent is pathetic. Makes a nice headline but represents another year of failure!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8058091.html
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
The issue was the deficit was running at >10% of GDP, which is a course for bankruptcy in the long run.
typically when the deficit is less than inflation adjusted growth the rising payments on debt is more than offset by the rising tax base to cover it.
it is one school of thought. not every school of thought advocates it.
it is hard to suggest what could happened if a Keynesian model had been adopted. It may have worked, ut may not. it is all supposition.
it really is crass to suggest working people voting Tory are voting against their own best interests. you have no idea what is in the best interests of the 13.7m or so who voted Tory in this years election. People vote for a myriad of reasons and not everyone is obsessed with money in the way those on the left are.
They are not social democrats - Blair was a social democrat, so was Brown and Milliband. Corbyn and McDonnell are very much further left. McDonnell is on R4 quite a lot and you only have to listen to him to see he is not an advocate of social democracy.
Blair was a fecking Tory pretending to be in the Labour party
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
Could be any one of us one day. It's what I always tell my daughter too.
Indeed , but these I am alright jack Tory types don't care .....they will be the first to run to the council for help though if they need help ..to which the council will say we can't help you , we had to sell a load of our fecking houses .....tough luck old chap
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Yes it is a fact , Jon works in housing management , he knows what he's talking about
No longer Sludge, mate. I early retired a few years ago after 28 years in housing - but I still keep in touch and read the housing press.
I think TISS (Feedback - surely) was aiming at Pearcey' comment about the well-off getting tax cuts under the Tories. He seems to doubt that the Tories handed the rich £70bn in tax cuts through changes to corporation tax, inheritance tax, capital gains tax and the bank levy. He would, wouldn't he. Even the most pro-Tory commentators agree that is the headline - even if they quibble about some of the fine print.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
joecity
That's all you can do mate. Good stuff.
And thank you for the advice
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Better but not goon!
Way short of the Tories own annual housebuilding (including conversions) target - and the number of affordable new homes for sale or for rent is pathetic. Makes a nice headline but represents another year of failure!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8058091.html
Humble apologies for the typographical error.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Let's say there are 10000 council homes in a town
5000 of those , in the nice streets are sold off
The council now only has a stock of 5000 homes to provide for those in housing need , once these are passed onto the council
If you don't replace council housing that is sold like for like with new social housing , then a housing crisis develops
It really is very simple to understand , the institute of housing , housing policy experts , shelter and many other groups warned this was going to happen
What council's have left following right to buy is fewer housing to offer those in need and that which is left is often poor quality as the right to buy has been higher on the nice estates and lower on the rougher ones
The right to buy has created sink estates with poor quality housing and social problems
The need for social housing following right to buy is fecking enormous , waiting lists are massive , at an all time high for many councils
That's why so many have been forced into the badly managed private sector and the housing benefit bill has risen
So the 5000 houses sold off, I take it they have occupants in them at the point of sale. Therefore there is no increase in the demand for social housing as you still have the same numbers requiring social housing pre and post disposal.
For each institution that disagrees with RTB is one that supports it. It's a matter of politics and not practicality.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Better but not goon!
Way short of the Tories own annual housebuilding (including conversions) target - and the number of affordable new homes for sale or for rent is pathetic. Makes a nice headline but represents another year of failure!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8058091.html
The Tories are obsessed with people owning their own homes , many cannot afford to and would be happy to rent from the council for a roof over their heads
The push of the right to buy was not only very damaging , it was a political ploy to get previous labour voters to vote Tory , the same as privatisation
Many of those who fell for the trick are now regretting it
We have a serious housing problem and the Tories increasing the stock of private housing ......which they actually are not as it's below population forecasts .......is not going to solve the problem we face ......low cost , social housing ......council housing ......for those less fortunate than ourselves
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Indeed , but these I am alright jack Tory types don't care .....they will be the first to run to the council for help though if they need help ..to which the council will say we can't help you , we had to sell a load of our fecking houses .....tough luck old chap
Im fortunate to have a wide network of friends and family around me, id like to think that as long as I don't do anything silly then the help would be there.
Can't go too much into it, but years ago my friend had to go live elsewhere and ended up running back to our area, he had spells in some of our houses from time to time, he would come round mine for a bath and food when the parents were out, or a load of us would camp out together so he wasn't on his own. Hard to explain to a parent "don't tell anyone he's here" so it wasn't like we had the option of a roof to offer..
Loads aren't so lucky, some don't have family, others have one but something horrible has happened, some may have one but due to a mental illness not feel they can ask for help (if that makes sense, it does as I type it but may not to read it)
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
So the 5000 houses sold off, I take it they have occupants in them at the point of sale. Therefore there is no increase in the demand for social housing as you still have the same numbers requiring social housing pre and post disposal.
For each institution that disagrees with RTB is one that supports it. It's a matter of politics and not practicality.
No , we have increasing demand , due to an increasing population , on the houses that remain following the sell off
As for those who support the right to buy let's have a list of the organisations that do and let's see if they have the good of the country and its housing at heart or are capitalists obsessed with us having a property owning population