Re: "Conservatism has gone rogue and lost touch with the rest of us"
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Originally Posted by bluemoon wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 20:44
Some bloke on the 20th message down on page 1 said Tories are only concerned with their self interest whilst he was a left wing type so not like that...........strange but he had the same name as you.
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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 20:44
You have lost me now.
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Originally Posted by bluemoon wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 20:43
Bob Crow was elected as leader of the RMT and was paid a salary that the RMT membership wanted him to be paid. He was not materialistic and lived in modest housing when he could have had a mansion. Good for him i say.
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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 20:43
Benn left money to his children. Are you seriously suggesting that this is something to be ashamed of? Are you not leaving any money to your kids?
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Originally Posted by gandalf1927 wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 20:42
What any of this has to do with conservatism is beyond me. Or is attacking progressivism (and atacking the character of noble dead people) the only way you can defend conservatism?
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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 19:18
Press ignore
Re: "Conservatism has gone rogue and lost touch with the rest of us"
Quote:
Originally Posted by gandalf1927 wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 20:45
Some bloke on the 20th message down on page 1 said Tories are only concerned with their self interest whilst he was a left wing type so not like that...........strange but he had the same name as you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 20:43
You have lost me now.
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Originally Posted by gandalf1927 wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 20:42
Bob Crow was elected as leader of the RMT and was paid a salary that the RMT membership wanted him to be paid. He was not materialistic and lived in modest housing when he could have had a mansion. Good for him i say.
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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 19:18
Benn left money to his children. Are you seriously suggesting that this is something to be ashamed of? Are you not leaving any money to your kids?
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Originally Posted by gandalf1927 wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 19:18
What any of this has to do with conservatism is beyond me. Or is attacking progressivism (and atacking the character of noble dead people) the only way you can defend conservatism?
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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 17:44
O http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/wave.gif
Re: "Conservatism has gone rogue and lost touch with the rest of us"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 20:47
Some bloke on the 20th message down on page 1 said Tories are only concerned with their self interest whilst he was a left wing type so not like that...........strange but he had the same name as you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gandalf1927 wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 20:45
You have lost me now.
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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 20:43
Bob Crow was elected as leader of the RMT and was paid a salary that the RMT membership wanted him to be paid. He was not materialistic and lived in modest housing when he could have had a mansion. Good for him i say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gandalf1927 wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 20:42
Benn left money to his children. Are you seriously suggesting that this is something to be ashamed of? Are you not leaving any money to your kids?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 19:18
What any of this has to do with conservatism is beyond me. Or is attacking progressivism (and atacking the character of noble dead people) the only way you can defend conservatism?
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Originally Posted by gandalf1927 wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 19:18
boring
Re: "Conservatism has gone rogue and lost touch with the rest of us"
Re: "Conservatism has gone rogue and lost touch with the rest of us"
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Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 20:12
Archibald leitch gives the impression he thinks all business owners are raking it in and the workers are fed scraps. Whilst I'm sure there are businesses out there, my experience is the earnings gap between owner and worker isn't that great.
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Originally Posted by archibald leitch wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 15:58
if that is what Archibald leitch thinks, then it should be easy for you to give just one example of where he has even hinted at this.
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Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 14:51
if you cannot provide a link, all you have done is confirm that you are constatnly attributing to me positions i do not hold.
Please quote where I have said all business owners are unscrupulous. .. or accept that I have never said any such thing
Re: "Conservatism has gone rogue and lost touch with the rest of us"
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Originally Posted by archibald leitch wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 21:27
Archibald leitch gives the impression he thinks all business owners are raking it in and the workers are fed scraps. Whilst I'm sure there are businesses out there, my experience is the earnings gap between owner and worker isn't that great.
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Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 20:12
if that is what Archibald leitch thinks, then it should be easy for you to give just one example of where he has even hinted at this.
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Originally Posted by archibald leitch wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 15:58
if you cannot provide a link, all you have done is confirm that you are constatnly attributing to me positions i do not hold.
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Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 14:51
You consistently claim that business owners are unscrupulous and are out to shaft workers wherever they can. The reality is somewhat different
You have no evidence of how the 2m business owners treat their workers except for the dogmatic rhetoric provided to you be your trade union, it's journals and whatever other tomes you read.
Re: "Conservatism has gone rogue and lost touch with the rest of us"
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Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 21:41
Archibald leitch gives the impression he thinks all business owners are raking it in and the workers are fed scraps. Whilst I'm sure there are businesses out there, my experience is the earnings gap between owner and worker isn't that great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibald leitch wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 21:27
if that is what Archibald leitch thinks, then it should be easy for you to give just one example of where he has even hinted at this.
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Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 20:12
if you cannot provide a link, all you have done is confirm that you are constatnly attributing to me positions i do not hold.
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Originally Posted by archibald leitch wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 15:58
You consistently claim that business owners are unscrupulous and are out to shaft workers wherever they can. The reality is somewhat different
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 14:51
Please quote where I have said all business owners are unscrupulous. .. or accept that I have never said any such thing
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif
Re: "Conservatism has gone rogue and lost touch with the rest of us"
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibald leitch wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 22:01
Archibald leitch gives the impression he thinks all business owners are raking it in and the workers are fed scraps. Whilst I'm sure there are businesses out there, my experience is the earnings gap between owner and worker isn't that great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 21:41
if that is what Archibald leitch thinks, then it should be easy for you to give just one example of where he has even hinted at this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibald leitch wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 21:27
if you cannot provide a link, all you have done is confirm that you are constatnly attributing to me positions i do not hold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 20:12
You consistently claim that business owners are unscrupulous and are out to shaft workers wherever they can. The reality is somewhat different
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Originally Posted by archibald leitch wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 15:58
Please quote where I have said all business owners are unscrupulous. .. or accept that I have never said any such thing
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Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 14:51
I never said all I said you claim business owners are unscrupulous. You hate the capitalist system, you think business owners are out to exploit workers. If you don't think all business owners are out to exploit workers, why do you continually tell us that the capitalist system is broken?
fair point, I was looking at the post immediately before. My point still stands - you are always complaining about the capitalist system saying it is broken and doesn't work but if some business owners are good to their workers as you have said then surely that's at odds with the capitalist system being broken.
Re: "Conservatism has gone rogue and lost touch with the rest of us"
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 22:03
Archibald leitch gives the impression he thinks all business owners are raking it in and the workers are fed scraps. Whilst I'm sure there are businesses out there, my experience is the earnings gap between owner and worker isn't that great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibald leitch wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 22:01
if that is what Archibald leitch thinks, then it should be easy for you to give just one example of where he has even hinted at this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 21:41
if you cannot provide a link, all you have done is confirm that you are constatnly attributing to me positions i do not hold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibald leitch wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 21:27
You consistently claim that business owners are unscrupulous and are out to shaft workers wherever they can. The reality is somewhat different
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 20:12
Please quote where I have said all business owners are unscrupulous. .. or accept that I have never said any such thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibald leitch wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 15:58
I never said all I said you claim business owners are unscrupulous. You hate the capitalist system, you think business owners are out to exploit workers. If you don't think all business owners are out to exploit workers, why do you continually tell us that the capitalist system is broken?
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Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 14:51
You have no evidence of how the 2m business owners treat their workers except for the dogmatic rhetoric provided to you be your trade union, it's journals and whatever other tomes you read.
I applaud employers who treat their workers well, that does not mean i applaud capitalism, it means we live in a capitalist society and have to deal with what we have got for the time being.
Re: "Conservatism has gone rogue and lost touch with the rest of us"
The way you describe sweatshops seems a little anachronistic. Do you think we have sweatshops in the UK?
the issue you seem to have is with unscrupulous employers rather than the capitalist system. You even say yourself that some employers treat workers very well so the capitalist system can work as intended. You also ignore the fact that the market is about people provides goofs and services that people want, the economy is all about people.
On a side note, what cause we're the anarchosyndicalists marching for yesterday? Why does the south Wales anarchists website have all its members faces blurred/crossed out?
Re: "Conservatism has gone rogue and lost touch with the rest of us"
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Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 22:38
The way you describe sweatshops seems a little anachronistic. Do you think we have sweatshops in the UK?
I am sure you will say something along the lines of 'if they have nothing to hide then they should not be woried about their faces being made public. If only that were true. Having had an undercover cop play a major role on my life for five years, dispite the fact that i had broken no law and had no intention to break the law - simply becasue i held political views the establishment did not like - I am confident that simply being innocent does not protect one from the long arm of the state. The use of tasers on marchers yesterday is another good example.
Re: "Conservatism has gone rogue and lost touch with the rest of us"
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Originally Posted by Kiffa wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 09:10
Excellent piece by Will Hutton in the Guardian.
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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 08:58
Unusual to get a moderate like Hutton attacking the current direction of the Tory party in such scathing terms.
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Originally Posted by alfie sherwood wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 08:46
He makes some great points. Is it the SNP who are the greatest threat to the union or Cameron's Tory party?
It's the sign of things to come,uncontrollable, S******ing .
Re: "Conservatism has gone rogue and lost touch with the rest of us"
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Originally Posted by ragbone Red wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 23:45
Excellent piece by Will Hutton in the Guardian.
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Originally Posted by Kiffa wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 09:10
Unusual to get a moderate like Hutton attacking the current direction of the Tory party in such scathing terms.
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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 08:58
He makes some great points. Is it the SNP who are the greatest threat to the union or Cameron's Tory party?
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Originally Posted by alfie sherwood wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 08:46
There are posters on the left who adopt similar tactics yet thry aren't afforded the sane criticism from you. Is there a reason for that inconsistency?
Re: "Conservatism has gone rogue and lost touch with the rest of us"
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibald leitch wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 22:58
The way you describe sweatshops seems a little anachronistic. Do you think we have sweatshops in the UK?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 22:38
the issue you seem to have is with unscrupulous employers rather than the capitalist system. You even say yourself that some employers treat workers very well so the capitalist system can work as intended. You also ignore the fact that the market is about people provides goofs and services that people want, the economy is all about people.
Why is it that when people exploit others you consider it capitalism rather than greed and exploitation. These nasty traits of man have been around since the beginning. Capitalism has been around for say 200 years and man has had slavery for at least 5000 years before that. Slavery and indentured servitude are man at its worst and you say they are the result of capitalism. Sweatshops and the like are a result of those traits rather than the economic model of means of ownership (which is outdated now anyway)
Re: "Conservatism has gone rogue and lost touch with the rest of us"
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Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Mon, 04 May 2015 08:48
The way you describe sweatshops seems a little anachronistic. Do you think we have sweatshops in the UK?
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibald leitch wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 22:58
the issue you seem to have is with unscrupulous employers rather than the capitalist system. You even say yourself that some employers treat workers very well so the capitalist system can work as intended. You also ignore the fact that the market is about people provides goofs and services that people want, the economy is all about people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 22:38
On a side note, what cause we're the anarchosyndicalists marching for yesterday? Why does the south Wales anarchists website have all its members faces blurred/crossed out?
We have debated this in the past an i have no intention clogging this thread up by debating it again. Besides, fresh air is calling.
Re: "Conservatism has gone rogue and lost touch with the rest of us"
Thanks for the answer. I disagree with it of course along with the majority of society I'd suggest, but as you say, it's been done to death.
Re: "Conservatism has gone rogue and lost touch with the rest of us"
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibald leitch wrote on Mon, 04 May 2015 09:36
The way you describe sweatshops seems a little anachronistic. Do you think we have sweatshops in the UK?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Mon, 04 May 2015 08:48
the issue you seem to have is with unscrupulous employers rather than the capitalist system. You even say yourself that some employers treat workers very well so the capitalist system can work as intended. You also ignore the fact that the market is about people provides goofs and services that people want, the economy is all about people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibald leitch wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 22:58
On a side note, what cause we're the anarchosyndicalists marching for yesterday? Why does the south Wales anarchists website have all its members faces blurred/crossed out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 22:38
There probably are sweatshops in the UK, but they are not legal and will be underground. I was referring to sweatshops in general, which are all a product of capitalism.
I'm sure you would be fine to clog up the thread. I get the feeling Bob and Alfie ego wouldn't have replied to you saying you were going off on a tangent. I can't imagine why........
Re: "Conservatism has gone rogue and lost touch with the rest of us"
Anyone know what happened to that Conservative Party that had gone rogue and was out of touch with everyone??
Re: "Conservatism has gone rogue and lost touch with the rest of us"
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Originally Posted by sidhooper7 wrote on Sat, 09 May 2015 02:06
Anyone know what happened to that Conservative Party that had gone rogue and was out of touch with everyone??
Add fear of 'others', ignorance of what the last government has done and the next plans, the impact of a pro-Tory media and a default to the status quo, and you get a re-elected Tory government with a small majority.
Re: "Conservatism has gone rogue and lost touch with the rest of us"
It's evidence of no such thing jon. You're speculating just like will Hutton why people voted tory
We have a Tory government. I remember archie saying some of his friends were dead against striking but when the ballot came in to strike they opted to go along with it to show a united front. I wonder if that attitude will prevail here And that we should all show a united front for the greater good.
The reality is nothing much will change Except some people are opinionated enough to think it will
Re: "Conservatism has gone rogue and lost touch with the rest of us"
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Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Sat, 09 May 2015 06:47
It's evidence of no such thing jon. You're speculating just like will Hutton why people voted tory
I am all in favour of the greater good - but this new government are not interested in the greater good.
Re: "Conservatism has gone rogue and lost touch with the rest of us"
it's no surprise you think the two situations are different Even though they are the same.
On one hand you have people rejecting a proposal but then saying they should support it to ensure everyone pulls in the same direction then on the other hand you say that you oppose a proposal and shouldn't support it to pull in the same direction.
