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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959 wrote on Thu, 11 June 2015 08:41
I have said why I'm against it several times, and in detail.
There's no value in discussions with him. It's like shagging a bird that just lies still. Just gives nothing back whatsoever. Do yourself a favour and rid yourself of him http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Kiffa
it is not about being receptive to ideas because what you and Jon are saying doesn't make any sense. You are arguing against a policy that builds homes and alleviates the housing shortage. I've given you examples of how demand for housing will fall as a result and Jon even accepts that this is correct, but because this doesn't meet with the ideology of 'socialism' some people are against it.
Jon hasn't provided any explanations - he has given his opinion and has failed to back up that opinion with evidence.
If the RTB policy reduced the housing stock I could see your point, but it doesn't reduce the stock it increases it. you are arguing for fewer homes to be built. Not only that there is no evidence that landlords charge more in rent for former social housing than current social housing. The opposition is ideologically based and nothing more.
The fact is following RTB the same occupiers are in the houses they were in before RTB, all that has changed is legal ownership and that change in ownership allows new houses to be built for people who are currently homeless.
Your comments are symptomatic of those who have nothing left to present as proof of their arguments. In other words, your arguments are weak. You've made many claims, along with Jon, that costs rise and rents increase but when challenged to provide evidence none is forthcoming. So until that evidence is represented all you are doing is offering your opinion and that opinion is based on your ideology.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiffa wrote on Thu, 11 June 2015 12:10
You have indeed explained yourself over and over. Unfortunately explanations fall on deaf ears with Feedback.
All the best Feedy.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiffa wrote on Thu, 11 June 2015 12:10
I have said why I'm against it several times, and in detail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959 wrote on Thu, 11 June 2015 08:41
You haven't bothered to respond to my reasons - just keep on repeating your ill-informed and patronising opinion all based on the view that if a single new home is built after a sale then the RTB policy must be good.
You've nailed it. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiffa wrote on Thu, 11 June 2015 12:18
You have indeed explained yourself over and over. Unfortunately explanations fall on deaf ears with Feedback.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiffa wrote on Thu, 11 June 2015 12:10
This is why I am giving up on entering into any discussion with him in the future. It's like talking to a plank of wood. The man has no capacity, be it deliberate or otherwise, to be receptive to anything anyone has to say, evidenced in the predictable regurgitation of the same point over and over again. He'll probably try and engage me on these points, despite me saying I'll no longer enter into any discussion with him, which just goes to show how little sinks in.
your turn...
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Tue, 09 June 2015 10:02
Whats good news about the poor being told they cant have extra help to further their financial lives and have an asset, an asset that can be passed onto their children, an asset that might hep them get out of the poverty trap. Why is this good news?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 18:34
Helping keep the poor poor is what this is. Oh lets rejoice.
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/facepalm.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 16:55
Plenty of poor people forced to rent in the private sector too, I assume you are in favour of private landlords also honouring this sort of discount? Everyone wins, right?
If the Tories promised to rebuild every house sold as RTB I wouldn't have a problem. I'd welcome the policy. Until they do I fully oppose it.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 17:54
the 12 years supply would be based on current build rates and not on anything else. if the market could stand greater supply of new build then the 12 years supply would fall accordingly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 15:08
why would rising land prices affect a developer with a chunk of land that they intend to develop? it clearly wouldn't as the developer already owns the land
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 13:12
it seems like you're just coming up with reasons why developers don't develop when the reality is developers will build as soon as they have planning and as soon as the market means they will sell the development.
You have with your portfolio?
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 22:57
the 12 years supply would be based on current build rates and not on anything else. if the market could stand greater supply of new build then the 12 years supply would fall accordingly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 22:54
why would rising land prices affect a developer with a chunk of land that they intend to develop? it clearly wouldn't as the developer already owns the land
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 22:49
it seems like you're just coming up with reasons why developers don't develop when the reality is developers will build as soon as they have planning and as soon as the market means they will sell the development.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 22:47
I would imagine it takes a lot less time and effort to buy a piece of land than to build 500 houses on it. You surely cannot be saying that it isn't feasible that developers might buy land because it is a good time to buy but not develop because their efforts are concentrated elsewhere...
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 22:45
You haven't got a clue have you fella
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 22:42
Doesn't stop you, care to explain...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 17:54
I haven't the time right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 15:08
Typical nonsense from the master of nonsense.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee wrote on Thu, 11 June 2015 23:04
the 12 years supply would be based on current build rates and not on anything else. if the market could stand greater supply of new build then the 12 years supply would fall accordingly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 17:54
why would rising land prices affect a developer with a chunk of land that they intend to develop? it clearly wouldn't as the developer already owns the land
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 15:08
it seems like you're just coming up with reasons why developers don't develop when the reality is developers will build as soon as they have planning and as soon as the market means they will sell the development.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 13:12
I would imagine it takes a lot less time and effort to buy a piece of land than to build 500 houses on it. You surely cannot be saying that it isn't feasible that developers might buy land because it is a good time to buy but not develop because their efforts are concentrated elsewhere...
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif
Yes, I have.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee wrote on Thu, 11 June 2015 23:06
the 12 years supply would be based on current build rates and not on anything else. if the market could stand greater supply of new build then the 12 years supply would fall accordingly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 22:57
why would rising land prices affect a developer with a chunk of land that they intend to develop? it clearly wouldn't as the developer already owns the land
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 22:54
it seems like you're just coming up with reasons why developers don't develop when the reality is developers will build as soon as they have planning and as soon as the market means they will sell the development.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 22:49
I would imagine it takes a lot less time and effort to buy a piece of land than to build 500 houses on it. You surely cannot be saying that it isn't feasible that developers might buy land because it is a good time to buy but not develop because their efforts are concentrated elsewhere...
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 22:47
You haven't got a clue have you fella
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 22:45
Doesn't stop you, care to explain...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 22:42
I haven't the time right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 17:54
I see Eric the half a brain is off on one again.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee wrote on Thu, 11 June 2015 23:04
Whats good news about the poor being told they cant have extra help to further their financial lives and have an asset, an asset that can be passed onto their children, an asset that might hep them get out of the poverty trap. Why is this good news?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Tue, 09 June 2015 10:02
Helping keep the poor poor is what this is. Oh lets rejoice.
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/facepalm.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 18:34
Plenty of poor people forced to rent in the private sector too, I assume you are in favour of private landlords also honouring this sort of discount? Everyone wins, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 16:55
If people in social housing do buy the house and then as it should (not how is has) work then a new house is built creating an additional property on social housing meaning that someone who is struggling with private rent could now move into social housing
Would you prefer no new houses built so those who moved in to the new houses remained homeless?
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee wrote on Thu, 11 June 2015 23:04
Whats good news about the poor being told they cant have extra help to further their financial lives and have an asset, an asset that can be passed onto their children, an asset that might hep them get out of the poverty trap. Why is this good news?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Tue, 09 June 2015 10:02
Helping keep the poor poor is what this is. Oh lets rejoice.
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/facepalm.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 18:34
Plenty of poor people forced to rent in the private sector too, I assume you are in favour of private landlords also honouring this sort of discount? Everyone wins, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 16:55
If people in social housing do buy the house and then as it should (not how is has) work then a new house is built creating an additional property on social housing meaning that someone who is struggling with private rent could now move into social housing
If there is money available for a massive RTB discount (£75-100k per property) it would make far more sense and be fairer and more effective to put that into a Council house-building programme. That way the supply would increase in the sector where it is needed, Councils and their tenants would avoid the diseconomies of scale that come with RTB, we would still have the vestiges of 'mixed estates' and we wouldn't see nine Peters being robbed to pay one Paul - which is what the RTB policy really is all about.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Jon
Can you explain where the 75-100k per property is coming from? You need to remember that the taxpayer isn't giving money to tenants - the money isn't there in the first place.
You were also the one who referenced 20% first so I will take your word for it. If 20% are replaced then that means there are houses for people to live in that weren't there before. Would you prefer these houses not to have been built and those living in them to remain homeless.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 11:09
Jon
Former Conservative prime minister Margaret Thatcher, who died last week, introduced the right to buy in the 1980s. The current Conservative-led government has reinvigorated the policy, increasing discounts and reducing the qualifying period for tenants. It has also promised an affordable home will be built for every one sold through the policy.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
'Majority' of right to buy homes in Newham now owned by private landlords
25 June 2014 | By Pete Apps INSIDE HOUSING
A London borough has seen 'the majority' of its social homes sold under right to buy end up in the private rented sector, its director of housing has said.
John East, director of commissioning at Newham Council, told delegates at the Chartered Institute of Housing conference in Manchester yesterday that the borough had seen a 'significant loss' of homes since discounts were increased.
'Our council housing stock is starting to diminish quite rapidly,' he told delegates. 'But the people who are buying them aren't living in them, they sold them and those properties go into private rent- more than half of them are not in owner occupation.'
He said that the government's promise that one-for-one replacements would be built for every additional home sold was not working in Newham.
After discounts, which were raised to a maximum of £100,000 in London in April 2013, he said properties had been sold to tenants for as little as £25,000. The council can only invest a fraction of this cash in replacements- sometimes as little as £1,875 per home, he said.
'The government's incentives for right to buy are adding to a very significant problem within the borough- a borough which has some of the highest level of housing need in the country.'
And:
http://tomcopley.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/From-Right-t o-Buy-to-Buy-to-Let-Jan-2014.pdf
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 22:42
the 12 years supply would be based on current build rates and not on anything else. if the market could stand greater supply of new build then the 12 years supply would fall accordingly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 17:54
why would rising land prices affect a developer with a chunk of land that they intend to develop? it clearly wouldn't as the developer already owns the land
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 15:08
it seems like you're just coming up with reasons why developers don't develop when the reality is developers will build as soon as they have planning and as soon as the market means they will sell the development.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 13:12
I would imagine it takes a lot less time and effort to buy a piece of land than to build 500 houses on it. You surely cannot be saying that it isn't feasible that developers might buy land because it is a good time to buy but not develop because their efforts are concentrated elsewhere...
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif
If you get all of these pre-build matters correct then building the houses is easy. It's when amateurs are involved and miss huge chunks of the due-diligence process that the build becomes a problem.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 15:35
the 12 years supply would be based on current build rates and not on anything else. if the market could stand greater supply of new build then the 12 years supply would fall accordingly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 22:42
why would rising land prices affect a developer with a chunk of land that they intend to develop? it clearly wouldn't as the developer already owns the land
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 17:54
it seems like you're just coming up with reasons why developers don't develop when the reality is developers will build as soon as they have planning and as soon as the market means they will sell the development.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 15:08
I would imagine it takes a lot less time and effort to buy a piece of land than to build 500 houses on it. You surely cannot be saying that it isn't feasible that developers might buy land because it is a good time to buy but not develop because their efforts are concentrated elsewhere...
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 13:12
I believe in council housing because I simply don't trust the private sector to do what is in the best interests of the people and the country so the state must retain some kind of foothold.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 16:02
the 12 years supply would be based on current build rates and not on anything else. if the market could stand greater supply of new build then the 12 years supply would fall accordingly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 15:35
why would rising land prices affect a developer with a chunk of land that they intend to develop? it clearly wouldn't as the developer already owns the land
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 22:42
it seems like you're just coming up with reasons why developers don't develop when the reality is developers will build as soon as they have planning and as soon as the market means they will sell the development.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 17:54
I would imagine it takes a lot less time and effort to buy a piece of land than to build 500 houses on it. You surely cannot be saying that it isn't feasible that developers might buy land because it is a good time to buy but not develop because their efforts are concentrated elsewhere...
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 15:08
Despite what some on here would try and make everyone believe.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Jon
You've cited 2 councils out of how many on the uk?
I also disagree with the comment by the union that the houses aren't occupied by those they were built for. Who exactly is living in them? How does the union know vast profits are being made? Few landlords many any sort of income from rental properties with most gains coming from capital appreciation when the asset is sold.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
I also disagree with your earlier claim that 9 Peters are robbed to pay 1 paul (or whatever it was you said). Given the huge numbers of houses sold under RTB I'd guess the majority actually took advantage of the scheme.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 16:21
I also disagree with your earlier claim that 9 Peters are robbed to pay 1 paul (or whatever it was you said). Given the huge numbers of houses sold under RTB I'd guess the majority actually took advantage of the scheme.
Every year the RTB discounts are a cost on the remaining tenants (even if some of them subsequently buy their Council homes) - although that is much more explicit since the Self Financing HRA came in in April 2011. It was also true under the previous subsidy system.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 16:19
Jon
I trust Unite's research over your opinion any day of the week!
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 16:19
Jon
You always ask for stats and then sidestep them when they get presented to you.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 16:07
the 12 years supply would be based on current build rates and not on anything else. if the market could stand greater supply of new build then the 12 years supply would fall accordingly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 16:02
why would rising land prices affect a developer with a chunk of land that they intend to develop? it clearly wouldn't as the developer already owns the land
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 15:35
it seems like you're just coming up with reasons why developers don't develop when the reality is developers will build as soon as they have planning and as soon as the market means they will sell the development.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 22:42
I would imagine it takes a lot less time and effort to buy a piece of land than to build 500 houses on it. You surely cannot be saying that it isn't feasible that developers might buy land because it is a good time to buy but not develop because their efforts are concentrated elsewhere...
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 17:54
You haven't got a clue have you fella
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 15:08
Doesn't stop you, care to explain...
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 13:12
You ask any developer - Building the houses is the easy part. Finding the right site, completing due diligence in terms of technical matters, commercial matters, legal matters etc etc and then getting planning for the scheme are the hardest part and often take considerably longer than the actual building of a site.
So you disagree with the current Government? Cool, I think this board can probably close down now, we finally got there.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 19:34
the 12 years supply would be based on current build rates and not on anything else. if the market could stand greater supply of new build then the 12 years supply would fall accordingly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 16:07
why would rising land prices affect a developer with a chunk of land that they intend to develop? it clearly wouldn't as the developer already owns the land
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 16:02
it seems like you're just coming up with reasons why developers don't develop when the reality is developers will build as soon as they have planning and as soon as the market means they will sell the development.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 15:35
I would imagine it takes a lot less time and effort to buy a piece of land than to build 500 houses on it. You surely cannot be saying that it isn't feasible that developers might buy land because it is a good time to buy but not develop because their efforts are concentrated elsewhere...
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 22:42
You haven't got a clue have you fella
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 17:54
Doesn't stop you, care to explain...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 15:08
You ask any developer - Building the houses is the easy part. Finding the right site, completing due diligence in terms of technical matters, commercial matters, legal matters etc etc and then getting planning for the scheme are the hardest part and often take considerably longer than the actual building of a site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 13:12
If you get all of these pre-build matters correct then building the houses is easy. It's when amateurs are involved and miss huge chunks of the due-diligence process that the build becomes a problem.
Eh?
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 21:48
the 12 years supply would be based on current build rates and not on anything else. if the market could stand greater supply of new build then the 12 years supply would fall accordingly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 19:34
why would rising land prices affect a developer with a chunk of land that they intend to develop? it clearly wouldn't as the developer already owns the land
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 16:07
it seems like you're just coming up with reasons why developers don't develop when the reality is developers will build as soon as they have planning and as soon as the market means they will sell the development.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 16:02
I would imagine it takes a lot less time and effort to buy a piece of land than to build 500 houses on it. You surely cannot be saying that it isn't feasible that developers might buy land because it is a good time to buy but not develop because their efforts are concentrated elsewhere...
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 15:35
You haven't got a clue have you fella
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 22:42
Doesn't stop you, care to explain...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 17:54
You ask any developer - Building the houses is the easy part. Finding the right site, completing due diligence in terms of technical matters, commercial matters, legal matters etc etc and then getting planning for the scheme are the hardest part and often take considerably longer than the actual building of a site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 15:08
If you get all of these pre-build matters correct then building the houses is easy. It's when amateurs are involved and miss huge chunks of the due-diligence process that the build becomes a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 13:12
So you are telling me that when a developer buys a site, the next day they get the ball rolling? They never buy with a view to develop in the future. Surely every company has limited resources to use at that moment in time?
They have actively spoken out against and tried to address a problem which you say doesn't exist.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Sat, 13 June 2015 09:05
the 12 years supply would be based on current build rates and not on anything else. if the market could stand greater supply of new build then the 12 years supply would fall accordingly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 21:48
why would rising land prices affect a developer with a chunk of land that they intend to develop? it clearly wouldn't as the developer already owns the land
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 19:34
it seems like you're just coming up with reasons why developers don't develop when the reality is developers will build as soon as they have planning and as soon as the market means they will sell the development.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 16:07
I would imagine it takes a lot less time and effort to buy a piece of land than to build 500 houses on it. You surely cannot be saying that it isn't feasible that developers might buy land because it is a good time to buy but not develop because their efforts are concentrated elsewhere...
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 16:02
You haven't got a clue have you fella
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 15:35
Doesn't stop you, care to explain...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 22:42
You ask any developer - Building the houses is the easy part. Finding the right site, completing due diligence in terms of technical matters, commercial matters, legal matters etc etc and then getting planning for the scheme are the hardest part and often take considerably longer than the actual building of a site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 17:54
If you get all of these pre-build matters correct then building the houses is easy. It's when amateurs are involved and miss huge chunks of the due-diligence process that the build becomes a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 15:08
So you are telling me that when a developer buys a site, the next day they get the ball rolling? They never buy with a view to develop in the future. Surely every company has limited resources to use at that moment in time?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 13:12
I believe in council housing because I simply don't trust the private sector to do what is in the best interests of the people and the country so the state must retain some kind of foothold.
What, this Government? Or are you confuing this Government with the previous coalition?
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Sat, 13 June 2015 16:51
the 12 years supply would be based on current build rates and not on anything else. if the market could stand greater supply of new build then the 12 years supply would fall accordingly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Sat, 13 June 2015 09:05
why would rising land prices affect a developer with a chunk of land that they intend to develop? it clearly wouldn't as the developer already owns the land
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 21:48
it seems like you're just coming up with reasons why developers don't develop when the reality is developers will build as soon as they have planning and as soon as the market means they will sell the development.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 19:34
I would imagine it takes a lot less time and effort to buy a piece of land than to build 500 houses on it. You surely cannot be saying that it isn't feasible that developers might buy land because it is a good time to buy but not develop because their efforts are concentrated elsewhere...
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 16:07
You haven't got a clue have you fella
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 16:02
Doesn't stop you, care to explain...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 15:35
You ask any developer - Building the houses is the easy part. Finding the right site, completing due diligence in terms of technical matters, commercial matters, legal matters etc etc and then getting planning for the scheme are the hardest part and often take considerably longer than the actual building of a site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 22:42
If you get all of these pre-build matters correct then building the houses is easy. It's when amateurs are involved and miss huge chunks of the due-diligence process that the build becomes a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 17:54
So you are telling me that when a developer buys a site, the next day they get the ball rolling? They never buy with a view to develop in the future. Surely every company has limited resources to use at that moment in time?
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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 15:08
I believe in council housing because I simply don't trust the private sector to do what is in the best interests of the people and the country so the state must retain some kind of foothold.
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Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 13:12
No, I'm not telling you that at all. They get the ball rolling, as you put it way in advance of buying a site. Much of the due diligence has to be done before a site is purchased.
Well let's start with the numerous Tory MPs that have spoken out against it.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
I'm very strongly in favour of our current Government and the vast majority of their proposed policies.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 19:32
Jon
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Fri, 12 June 2015 16:19
You've cited 2 councils out of how many on the uk?
Jon made a claim and even by his own admission has cited the most extreme examples and even then the figure is 40%. That would mean the rest would be less than 40% which infers in each case the majority are still owner occupied.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
And a further twist on the leakage of RTB proprties into the private rented market (at much much higher rents) is fraud:
http://www.cih.org/news-article/display/vpathDCR/templatedat a/cih/news-article/data/Tackling_right_to_buy_fraud
'But are the right people benefiting from all of those sales?
The Audit Commission estimate that cases of RTB fraud have increased nearly five fold since 2009/10 and now cost the public purse £12.3m per annum. Anecdotal feedback from individual local authorities tells us that they are struggling to cope with the increased number of applications, particularly given the tight statutory deadlines within which they have to approve them (currently four weeks in most cases). As a result, they are simply not able to carry out sufficiently thorough checks to prevent fraudulent applications from ever being successful.
Feedback from a number of councils suggests that there are a growing number of sales in which the main beneficiary is a third party, often another family member.
....a number of authorities also report seeing properties purchased under the RTB being advertised for rent immediately after the sale has been completed, sometimes literally the next day'.
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/audit-commission
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2905827/The-tenants- benefits-buying-council-house-one-five-applicants-receive-ha ndouts.html
http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/right-to-buy-changes-risk-inc rease-in-fraud/6524562.article
Right to buy changes risk increase in fraud
8 November 2012 | By Nick Duxbury INSIDE HOUSING
Fraudsters are targeting the government's revitalised right to buy programme, a report from the Audit Commission has revealed.
The number of right to buy fraud cases has risen by 52 per cent in the last three years and the commission warns that the newly extended discounts pose an increased risk of fraud.
In April the government increased the maximum discounts on right to buy properties to £75,000 and since then councils have been inundated with applications from tenants.
The report Protecting the public purse 2012 said that right to buy fraud is a 'new emerging fraud' and that although the level is currently relatively low in 2011/12 there were 38 cases with a value of £1.2 million the increased discount would make the scheme 'more attractive to fraudsters'.
It warned that 'social housing providers should ensure their right to buy fraud defences can respond to this increased risk'.
Right to buy fraud is commonly when people provide false identification when making an application or a householder applies for a discount when they are not eligible.
The report, published today, revealed that overall, councils are becoming better at cracking down on tenancy fraud.
Fraud was down 3 per cent on last year from £185 million to £179 million which the report attributed to improved detection by councils.
More than half of this 124,000 cases totalling £117 million - came from housing and council tax benefits.
Councils recovered around 1,800 homes with a total replacement value of nearly £264 million last year which was broadly the same as the previous year. However, since 2008/09 the number of properties recovered from tenancy fraudsters has risen by 82 per cent.
The report shows 69 per cent of all recovered properties last year were in London despite only 27 per cent of council housing being in the capital. This is because many London councils work with housing associations to tackle fraud.
More than half of non-London councils did not recover a single property last year.
The report recommended that the Communities and Local Government department incentivises social landlords to tackle fraud.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
So you're saying the fraud is caused by the local councils being unable to meet their statutory obligations in a timely manner.
Perhaps the issue is with the public sector rather than the RTB policy.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Sun, 14 June 2015 13:47
So you're saying the fraud is caused by the local councils being unable to meet their statutory obligations in a timely manner.
The local councils don't cause the fraud. That is desperate even for you. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Benefit fraud, tax evasion, RTB fraud all affects the taxpayer. Shall we stop collecting taxes and stop paying benefits because they are subject to fraud in the same way? Or are you going to apply your logic inconsistently because it suits you to do so?
The point about RTB fraud was that it's a result of councils being 'under pressure' to agree the RTB deal within 4 weeks. Meanwhile banks have to transfer accounts within 7 working days or face serious fines.
It seems as if the public sector want special dispensation to not have to deliver in what on the face of it is a seriously long time.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
You're trying too hard now. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif
I am just pointing out that another factor that goes with Council homes (in future HA homes) sold through the RTB ending up in the private rented sector in large numbers is fraud. It is a major factor in RTB in London and some other cities and high cost towns. There have been several TV investigative documentaries on recent years showing how some tenants are paid by private landlords to submit a RTB application with the deal being that the property is sold on to that landlords on or soon after purchase. The original tenant moves somewhere else (who knows where) and the private landlord makes a killing. Fraud is a feature of the process and there have been some prosecutions - but they only scratch the surface.
It is a fact that the RTB gold rush caused problems for Councils in checking and processing applications - and more fraudulent ones got through the net. At the same time Councils were getting much better at tacking general tenancy fraud - as the article pointed out.
I don't think there is any equivalence between administering a RTB application and transferring a bank account. I may be wrong - I have never seen the process for bank account transfers - but RTB administration is a lengthy and complex process and I have seen how that works.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
The point about bank accounts was that they are tasked to complete the process in seven days - credit checks, administration, moving DDS, cancelling DDs, redirecting SOs and everything else. It's not simple but with technology bit can be done. I can't see what needs to be done in the RTB process that can't be done electronically:
1. Length of time in social housing - ask computer
2. RTB entitlement - ask computer
What else needs to be done that requires 4 weeks checking?
Whilst I disagree with landlords acquiring the properties in the manner you describe these are small in number and there is nothing illegal with the activity.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
