Only 23 years???

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08-03-17, 17:29
chris

Re: Only 23 years???

Quote:

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I'm glad you've mentioned the US because despite the death penalty being legal in ~30 states 85% of US counties haven't executed anyone for more than 45 years.

In fact in the last 40 years only 1300 people have been executed in a country with a population of 320 million where gun crime and murders aren't a rare thing.

In fact another reason the US is a useful case study is that states with the death penalty don't have fewer murders, in fact it's the exact opposite.

Also per tax payer it costs more to kill someone than keep them in prison for 70 years.

The death penalty may be legal in the US but even there it is rare to see it even for premeditated murders.

To me it seems you see it just as a pure act of revenge without considering any other facets or arguments of the death penalty. There may be a handful of awful people being kept in prison but for me that's a price worth paying to live in a country where the government don't have the power to kill someone and no innocent men have been put to death in a long time.

many are kept on death row for years at at a time, going through appeal after appeal, but eventually the sentence is carried out most of the time no matter how long it takes. :wave:
08-03-17, 17:30
itkman

Re: Only 23 years???

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris

many are kept on death row for years at at a time, going through appeal after appeal, but eventually the sentence is carried out most of the time no matter how long it takes. :wave:

Yes, this is true, eventually the prisoner does die in 100% of cases.
08-03-17, 17:32
chris

Re: Only 23 years???

Quote:

Originally Posted by itkman

Yes, this is true, eventually the prisoner does die in 100% of cases.

yeah, they probably die of old age waiting to go to the electric chair. :hehe:
08-03-17, 17:33
Croesy Blue

Re: Only 23 years???

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris

many are kept on death row for years at at a time, going through appeal after appeal, but eventually the sentence is carried out most of the time no matter how long it takes. :wave:

A quick fact check will tell that's wrong too, as well as the fact that on average 4% of people on death row are innocent. So let's say at the moment there are 3000 people on death row in the states about 120 of them are innocent. Is it worth that much loss of innocent life purely for revenge?

Also the US with capital punishment has a much higher murder rate than the uk that doesn't have capital punishment.

Again you aren't addressing any points of the debate other than you think very bad people should killed, can you give me another pro of capital punishment? I'm always interested to have my opinion changed.
08-03-17, 17:38
Croesy Blue

Re: Only 23 years???

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris

yeah, they probably die of old age waiting to go to the electric chair. :hehe:

Exactly that, they end up just doing a life sentence but at a greater cost due to all the appeals etc.

There was a really good program a few years ago about appeals on death row, really interesting about battling the clock to try and prove men were innocent.
08-03-17, 17:38
chris

Re: Only 23 years???

Quote:

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

A quick fact check will tell that's wrong too, as well as the fact that on average 4% of people on death row are innocent. So let's say at the moment there are 3000 people on death row in the states about 120 of them are innocent. Is it worth that much loss of innocent life purely for revenge?

Also the US with capital punishment has a much higher murder rate than the uk that doesn't have capital punishment.

Again you aren't addressing any points of the debate other than you think very bad people should killed, can you give me another pro of capital punishment? I'm always interested to have my opinion changed.

i am talking about no reasonable doubt whatsoever , when all the evidence as been processed :thumbup:

if hindley , brady, sutcliffe, allitt, and many more, had been convicted and sentenced and been sat in a state penitentiary in louisiana, they would all have been six feet under by now. :thumbup:
08-03-17, 17:45
Croesy Blue

Re: Only 23 years???

There are very few cases which are beyond reasonable doubt and how can you decide which are and aren't? As I've said before innocent men have spent 20+ years in prison for crimes they didn't commit, innocent men have been put to death in the uk and pardoned 50 years later.

Think how stupid the average person is, then think on a jury there is a good chance of third of them are even stupider, would you be happy with these people deciding on your fate?

There are innocent men and women in prison as we speak that people think did the crime beyond reasonable doubt. There are 4% of death row on average who are innocent who have been convicted beyond reasonable doubt.

Saying we'll only kill people who are guilty beyond reasonable doubt isn't a very good argument because beyond reasonable doubt can be wrong. Ched Evans spent a few years in prison because he was guilt beyond reasonable doubt, how did that end up?
08-03-17, 17:50
chris

Re: Only 23 years???

Quote:

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

There are very few cases which are beyond reasonable doubt and how can you decide which are and aren't? As I've said before innocent men have spent 20+ years in prison for crimes they didn't commit, innocent men have been put to death in the uk and pardoned 50 years later.

Think how stupid the average person is, then think on a jury there is a good chance of third of them are even stupider, would you be happy with these people deciding on your fate?

There are innocent men and women in prison as we speak that people think did the crime beyond reasonable doubt. There are 4% of death row on average who are innocent who have been convicted beyond reasonable doubt.

Saying we'll only kill people who are guilty beyond reasonable doubt isn't a very good argument because beyond reasonable doubt can be wrong. Ched Evans spent a few years in prison because he was guilt beyond reasonable doubt, how did that end up?

so you are saying, hindley, allitt, brady, sutcliffe, are innocent :hehe:

they are tried and tested, hundred per cent guilty. the worms should be nibbling away at them right now. get real fella. :hehe:
08-03-17, 17:54
Croesy Blue

Re: Only 23 years???

I'm not saying they are no, I'm saying if we start killing people like them there is a good chance we'll kill someone who is innocent. I've also given about 6 other points as to why I think it shouldn't be legal but I don't think you read anything, you just post laughing smileys in the wrong places instead.
08-03-17, 18:03
blue matt

Re: Only 23 years???

so

in this case, where they have CCTV from various angles of the guy slaying two people in the street, one of them begging for her life, he searched online " how long do you get for murder "

do we have any doubt that he killed them both ? ? ?

If the answer is " no " then why not put him to sleep ? ? ?
08-03-17, 18:07
chris

Re: Only 23 years???

Quote:

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I'm not saying they are no, I'm saying if we start killing people like them there is a good chance we'll kill someone who is innocent. I've also given about 6 other points as to why I think it shouldn't be legal but I don't think you read anything, you just post laughing smileys in the wrong places instead.

i have said countless times, when there is irrefutable evidence, the killers should face the death penalty :thumbup: , all of the criminals i have mentioned and many more fall into that category :thumbup:

when there is doubt and i know mistakes have been made in the past then fair enough :thumbup: , but you have got to draw a line somewhere after a period of time .

by your logic we would have to be building prisons at the rate we build houses to keep everybody locked up :hehe: the public purse is far better spent on better things like the nhs, housing, education, etc, than keeping convicted monsters locked up in relative comfort behind bars for the rest of their lives, while we have people sleeping on the streets wondering where their next meal is coming from :thumbup:
08-03-17, 18:13
BLUETIT

Re: Only 23 years???

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris

the death penalty was abolished in the 1950,s sunshine, a very long time ago, we live in a completely different world nowadays. :thumbup:

https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl...g+in+britain&*
08-03-17, 18:33
chris

Re: Only 23 years???

its like the immigration argument, when everyone was slagging farage and ukip off, for saying they was too many immigrants coming to britain. he was proved right in the end. :thumbup: eventually reality kicks in. now suddenly people are starting to realise the truth and what is happening to this country. half of europe is going exactly the same way. :hehe:
08-03-17, 18:36
BLUETIT

Re: Only 23 years???

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris

its like the immigration argument, when everyone was slagging farage and ukip off, for saying they was too many immigrants coming to britain. he was proved right in the end. :thumbup: eventually reality kicks in. now suddenly people are starting to realise the truth and what is happening to this country. half of europe is going exactly the same way. :hehe:

"half of europe"
Reminds me of a joke :hehe::hehe:
08-03-17, 19:03
TH63

Re: Only 23 years???

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris

i am talking about no reasonable doubt whatsoever , when all the evidence as been processed :thumbup:

if hindley , brady, sutcliffe, allitt, and many more, had been convicted and sentenced and been sat in a state penitentiary in louisiana, they would all have been six feet under by now. :thumbup:

If there was reasonable doubt, they wouldn't be convicted in the first place you spanner
08-03-17, 19:59
Arfur Europe

Re: Only 23 years???

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris

some convicted for life would prefer death, and others would prefer to live tilll the end of their days in captivity it all depends on the individual itself .

what i am saying is i think the public in general would want capital punishment introduced especially for child killers and mass murderers , they see life imprisonment as no kind of punishment for the crimes they have committed .

what you have got to realise is they are not fed on bread and water anymore and put in a crumbling stone cold cell , sutcliffe , brady and many more are kept isolated from the rest of the prison population and might as well have been living in the holiday inn for the last 30 - 40 years they are certainly not suffering in any way shape or form like they should be. :thumbup:

I'd rather spend a few hours in an iron maiden, before being hung, drawn and quartered, as opposed to spending 30-40 years in a Holiday Inn. That would drive even the strongest of minds completely mad within the first couple of years.

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