But health care isn't the biggest contributer to covid deaths. It's how the lockdown was managed.
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But health care isn't the biggest contributer to covid deaths. It's how the lockdown was managed.
Fair do's you had a 'mare on here yesterday but it doesn't appear to have dampened your spirits.Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
Interesting figures, Wales figures the best of the home countries and England's figures the worst.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
Do you honestly believe that Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland weren’t party to discussions on the lockdown and in agreement with what was going to happen and the timing of it.? They would have been first in the queue to complain that the wool was pulled over their eyes etc, but nothing said to disown it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
The lockdown was at the heart of the pandemic healthcare policy...stay at home etc
Sturgeon banned gatherings of over 500 people back in March, Bojo followed suit 4 days later.Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
Scotland said no new jury trials, England followed suit 6 days later.
Wales announced school closures first, England last.
Wales brought into law that employers had to enforce 2m distancing rule, don't think England have done that.
Wales stopped people going to beauty spots when England still allowed it.
Bojo and England are miles behind the Celts, Sturgeon shows leadership and Bojo follows but unfortunately for England often quite some time behind.
A great point and succinctly made.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
Did anyone watch PMQs today. Boris "proud of his record", and took every Starmer question as an attack. Was also careful not to mention the US crisis until asked.
40,000 people lying in coffins and urns, and he is proud of how his Government responded. A Goodison Park full of people, dead.
Here's a questions for you:Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
If, as you have relentlessly maintained, the UK government bears no responsibility for combating Covid-19 in Wales, which is within the UK, then why did UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson send a letter to every household in Wales during the first week of April 2020 outlining the steps the UK government was taking to combat coronavirus and detailing the UK government's instructions to the public?
I did and to be honest I was disappointed with Starmer. I believe, given the wealth of evidence, facts and figures at his disposal, he could and should have been much more forceful.Quote:
Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO
I don't think that's his style. Starmer's more like an accurate counter puncher, but quite often those in charge of the judging prefer a more aggressive style - he's got four plus years of this to come, as long as he stays in his job, and I think your point will become more relevant as the months and years go on.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
This represents some significant back-peddling on the position you adamantly adopted yesterday.Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
I think your Goodison Park could be an Emirates with its 60,000 capacity in reality. Johnson seemed to be putting all of his eggs in one basket because he wanted to attack Starmer all of the time for doing what the opposition leader should do. Apparently, we're all united behind the Government and are not impressed by anyone who dares to be critical - seemingly, the focus groups the Tories use are reporting back that we don't want conflict between parties.Quote:
Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO
So are you saying that Westminster has as much control in Wales as the Senedd has in England? Think about your answer before you make a fool of yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
The figures for the UK today look pretty grim - an additional 359 deaths, compared to 159 in the USA and just 3 in Germany.
But in fairness historically PMQs is never about the PM actually answering a question, God forfend! It's more like a weekly episode of the Punch and Judy show and always has been. KS attacks PM, PM bites back, friendly MP asks friendly question, PM answers, KS attacks, PM bites back, and so on and so on. You might be entertained watching PMQs but you should never expect to actually glean any serious information from them.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Your comebacks are almost as bad as your defence of the Tory Govt.Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
Speaking of comebacks... Does Boris ever ask for his back after you've brought him to completion?
That American figure grows throughout the day though as the different states make their returns and I think it might be the same for Germany (although I'm sure their figure will be a great deal lower than ours). 359 is slightly lower than last week's midweek figures, but that seven day rolling average line for deaths is not dipping as quickly as it should is it.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
Lisvane blue loves the tories more than I love anything in my life, I admire the dedication. He isn’t just licking the boots he’s deep throating them. An inspiration to us all.
Yep, Starmer missed a real opportunity today. He allowed Johnson to act like a bully without commenting on it. The comment about "casting aspersions on the efforts of tens of thousands" presented Starmer with an opportunity for a sound bite and he totally missed it. :frown:Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
He is getting into Johnson's head. It seemed poignant that the Government leader was losing control as the exchange wore on. A bit like this whole shambles. The question about R rate needed an answer. I suspect it was either higher than when the grading system putting us at level 4 had it (0.5-0.9) or Johnson just didn't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
He already had the soundbite - an own goal of horrific proportions - when Johnson said "I am proud of my Government's record". 40,000 dead and hundreds of thousands of friends and relatives will feel cheated by that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grievous Angel
Starmer wasn't attacking anything. He was questioning. As he has been in his first few weeks as Leader of the Opposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
Perhaps a welsh one was planned , you and I dont know that detail ( you could raise that question though to your MP ) perhaps as medical officers speak more on a regular basis than the politician leaders leaders could it have been decided not to duplicate a standard message , of stay at home ,wash your hands , keep 2 meters etc , what could have be done differently to combat is the actual logistics knockdownQuote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
The decision to ease lockdown is based on nothing more than politics. It's the good news to get rid of the bad news. It's also interesting that Facebook feeds seem to be getting very anti-immigration again. Strange how that seems to happen whenever Johnson is in a mess.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
That's because intellectually challenged Boris can only remember one excuse at a time so just repeats it whatever is asked.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Its better than watching daytime TV........I thinkQuote:
Originally Posted by Baloo
Probably because he is PM of UK and felt the need to communicate to 30 million households to emphasise the importance of the stay at home message. He mentioned each home nation and their NHS staff in his letter.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
He did not do it because his Government is in charge of UK healthcare because its not.....it’s devolved, that’s a fact.
I hope he got the approval of the first ministers of each country, but he is pig headed enough to go it alone. In Scotland households got two letters. Nicola Sturgeon sent her own at the same time, possibly to emphasise that she’s in charge of Public health and to take the wind out of his sails
[QUOTE=Baloo;5083308]This represents some significant back-peddling on the position you adamantly adopted yesterday.[/QUOTE
In what way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
PHE says the way they record deaths changed on 1 June. May be something to do with it
Bumped for lisvaneblue.Quote:
Originally Posted by trampie09
This supports what I’ve been saying all along. Healthcare, which of course includes the public health management of this pandemic in UK is devolved to the home countries. Each can do its own thing in its own time. Sometimes they have worked collaboratively and other times independentlyQuote:
Originally Posted by trampie09
What’s the issue?
My post was in response to your post where you seemed to suggest that Wales, Scotland and N.Ireland was in agreement with what was going to happen and the timing of it, that does seem the case as major decisions were taken in many cases by the devolved administrations either solely or well before England did.Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
And the post you refer to stemmed from comments on this board that UK Gov was running the show via the Covid Act and finances linked to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by trampie09
We both agree that the responsibility for healthcare in Wales is devolved to the Senedd who can do what they want when they want in the interest of the health of the population of Wales
Croesy Blue, what a load of absolute twaddle. If you're still taking the tablets, I suggest you stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
They were not in agreement and certainly not in agreement over the timings of introducing measures, you clearly have that wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
As regards health being devolved it's crumbs off the table, the English don't pay for their old people that come here putting a strain on our services, calculations assume a head is a head is a head but that is not the case as some people are young and health and will often not need the health service at that stage but old people are more likely to need the health service and then there is the expense of providing rural services which needs to be taken into account, just a head count is not good enough.
Unsurprisingly (although no doubt this news will stun you), the letter and the enclosed guidance leaflet arrived in English and Welsh.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Exactly. So just stop. Please, just stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
Now now, you can't just pick the bits you like, or you might miss the point. After all you have in the pastQuote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
I sort of switched off half way through your balanced support of the Tory Government, and criticism of the Labour Welsh Assembly, but are you still saying Wales could have locked down before England?Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
When the lockdown was introduced on 23 March it was UK wide, which is why I said that all parties must have agreed to it. The messages were simple....Stay at home except for ....shopping for essentials etc etc. After that initial blanket directive tweaks and differences occurred through each of the home countries as you said.Quote:
Originally Posted by trampie09