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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
I was reading a few old press reports a couple of days ago and it turns out that Neil Harris had given Joel Bagan his first team debut in February 2020 a week before Morison arrived. Tom Sang came on as a sub in the same game and Sam Bowen was on the bench.
The perception that Morison guided all of the youngsters through the youth system seems quite widespread, but it’s odd. Surely most people are aware that he’s only been at the club for two years?
An article I read from back when Morison initially joined the club was interesting. In it, Neil Harris revealed that he’d already insisted the young players trained with the first team before Morison had arrived as he wanted the transition to the senior squad to be easier for them.
Danny Gabbidon on the Elis James Podcast some time back was very very clear that the rise of the youth to the 1st team was nothing to do with Steve Morrison.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pedro de la Rosa
Sure as night follows day, he's said Watters wasn't good enough. It was Morison's fault, not Watters. He's an absolute tosser.
I find it staggering that people are so negative about Morison. He has just earned 4 wins our of 5 and 3 straight wins at home. He doesn't talk in platitudes and it appears that Izaak has only responded positively to his early withdrawal against Bournemouth. Some people just need something to complain about.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Garth Blue
I find it staggering that people are so negative about Morison. He has just earned 4 wins our of 5 and 3 straight wins at home. He doesn't talk in platitudes and it appears that Izaak has only responded positively to his early withdrawal against Bournemouth. Some people just need something to complain about.
I think it’s staggering so many people are leaping to his defence. He’s done fine. We’re averaging 1.4 points a game. Before this run, he was averaging 1 point a game. He’s made mistakes and yet it’s always someone else’s fault.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
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Originally Posted by
Mr Soul '68
Not all footballers respond positively to "tough love". If he picks on the wrong player, it could lead to factions of a pro-Morison and anti Morison group within the dressing room. I'd tread very carefully if I was him. I noticed the way Wenger always sought to protect his players, and was never critical of them in post match interviews, not that I saw every one mind. Which to my way of thinking is a far more positive way of dealing with things i.e deal with them "in house".
I agree with most of that. Morison's approach is risky but a string of first team players have answered press questions about it (Harris, Collins, Ralls and others) and all have said they want the manager to be straight with them and not sugar coat any criticism.
That doesn't mean it has to be done in such a brutal way in front of the cameras. A bit of humility and some self criticism would help - and that doesn't have to undermine the self confidence and vision that Morison is projecting. He is learning on the job and making some mistakes. Maybe his personality and character will prove to be wrong for the job, but so far I think he has got more ticks than crosses on his scoresheet. Some hate him, a few love him, but my reading of this board is that a lot of fans are still reserving judgement.
I also agree with the points made above about Morison investing in the younger players in a way that he doesn't with the older ones near the end of their contracts - the ones that have been more culpable for poor performances than the u23 graduates.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Garth Blue
I find it staggering that people are so negative about Morison.
Staggering? I think you’re exaggerating again.
It’s been obvious from very early on (or at least it should have been) that Morison is a manager who is going to polarise opinion. The way he conducts himself with the media is unusual to say the least. Some will like his style, others will take exception to it. Surely you can see that?
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Years ago? Are you sure? Morison arrived at Cardiff City in February 2020. He had just one full season in charge of the under-23’s.
Yes, 2 years ago. Doesn't that count as "years ago"? Or maybe the pandemic has just warped my sense of time.
Anyway, this is the interview: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wal...g-19914167.amp
This was published in Feb 2021 but he's talking about the changes he made when he first came in in Feb 2020.
At the end of the day I get that some people don't like his style or his personality, but it staggers me how little credit he gets for the job he's doing. Recent results would suggest the players are buying into it too. It says a lot that someone like Drameh, who's been working under a genius like Bielsa, comes out and says he rates Morison as a coach.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OurManFlint II
Danny Gabbidon on the Elis James Podcast some time back was very very clear that the rise of the youth to the 1st team was nothing to do with Steve Morrison.
I think we all knew that he hasn’t been here that long but he still managed to get them working together and on an impressive run. I think he’s allowed a little credit.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
I really hope he gets the job, so what If he is arrogant.
The football is much better (at times) different players are scoring goals and not just one player.
I go to watch the football not group hugs with the players.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
Contain the opposition. We were playing Coventry at home not Fulham away ffs :hehe:
Very true :hehe:
I'm not saying I'd have picked this side, nor to play that way, but I do understand why he did, given the amount of games we have in such a short space of time.
Coventry are a decent footballing side and from memory gave us the runaround up there. Perhaps SM thought contain first then bring on the cavalry if things don't work out.
Difficult to argue with him really given the way things panned out.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FormerlyJohnnyBreadhead
It says a lot that someone like Drameh, who's been working under a genius like Bielsa, comes out and says he rates Morison as a coach.
Did he say that? I was under the impression that Morison doesn't do any of the coaching but maybe I'm wrong
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MacAdder
Very true :hehe:
I'm not saying I'd have picked this side, nor to play that way, but I do understand why he did, given the amount of games we have in such a short space of time.
Coventry are a decent footballing side and from memory gave us the runaround up there. Perhaps SM thought contain first then bring on the cavalry if things don't work out.
Difficult to argue with him really given the way things panned out.
That was more or less my take on the selection, get to 65/70 minutes 0-0, then introduce the fresh, better players. Morison cracked in half the time.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MacAdder
Very true :hehe:
I'm not saying I'd have picked this side, nor to play that way, but I do understand why he did, given the amount of games we have in such a short space of time.
Coventry are a decent footballing side and from memory gave us the runaround up there. Perhaps SM thought contain first then bring on the cavalry if things don't work out.
Difficult to argue with him really given the way things panned out.
No issue with rotating, we looked leggy on Saturday. The only thing I would question is starting with Watters and Davies - I defy anyone to tell me they saw that pairing before kick off and thought it could work. Especially when the game started and we proceeded to just smash balls up to them.
Morison said he wasnt expecting Watters to be Jordan Hugill, well maybe his instructions to the rest of the team werent that clear because we were just going direct from back to front until Tommy Doyle come on.
Thats another result weve got but didnt really play well, much like Barnsley. Defended well but lets not kid ourselves the football is that much better than Micks first season when he was grinding out results.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
How many games did the Under 23’s win in the seasons before Morison took over ? Some people (including Danny Gabidon) just cant bear to give him any praise whatsoever for what he has done both with the Under 23’s and first team in such a short space of time.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
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Originally Posted by
delmbox
Did he say that? I was under the impression that Morison doesn't do any of the coaching but maybe I'm wrong
https://www.teamtalk.com/leeds-unite...-steve-morison
“Some of the stuff you see on the pitch from me is definitely from Marcelo Bielsa and his coaching staff,” he told the club’s programme, as cited by the Yorkshire Evening Post.
“Their feedback was for me to be more aggressive and play on the front foot and I think the manager here has brought the best out of me since I’ve been here. His desire to get me in was the main reason that I came here.
“As a player, you always want to feel wanted and it seemed like the perfect place for me to come and play. The emphasis has been on being positive and wanting to attack and he’s filled me with a lot of confidence to go and express myself.”
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
No issue with rotating, we looked leggy on Saturday. The only thing I would question is starting with Watters and Davies - I defy anyone to tell me they saw that pairing before kick off and thought it could work. Especially when the game started and we proceeded to just smash balls up to them.
Morison said he wasnt expecting Watters to be Jordan Hugill, well maybe his instructions to the rest of the team werent that clear because we were just going direct from back to front until Tommy Doyle come on.
Thats another result weve got but didnt really play well, much like Barnsley. Defended well but lets not kid ourselves the football is that much better than Micks first season when he was grinding out results.
Expecting you to say something positive about the team, manager or style of play is basically like trying to polish a turd. If you cant see the difference between Mick McCarthys reign and the current situation then truly there is no hope for you.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
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Originally Posted by
Maurice Swan
My other comment is that much as I try I cannot see what Eli King is bringing to the team.
Maybe it's a case of easy, slowly with him, but I don't see much.
I thought he played very well last night. Kept it simple. But it was a more than acceptable League debut.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pedro de la Rosa
I think it’s staggering so many people are leaping to his defence. He’s done fine. We’re averaging 1.4 points a game. Before this run, he was averaging 1 point a game. He’s made mistakes and yet it’s always someone else’s fault.
He's getting a lot more right than wrong. But some people can only focus on the negatives. I guess that's social media for you.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
Expecting you to say something positive about the team, manager or style of play is basically like trying to polish a turd. If you cant see the difference between Mick McCarthys reign and the current situation then truly there is no hope for you.
Steve Morison could take a shit in your mouth and youd claim it was delicious and ask for seconds.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
Expecting you to say something positive about the team, manager or style of play is basically like trying to polish a turd. If you cant see the difference between Mick McCarthys reign and the current situation then truly there is no hope for you.
Haven't you got anything more useful to do in life other than complain about other people's opinions? If you're not careful the men in white coats will be coming to take you away soon ffs.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Staggering? I think you’re exaggerating again.
It’s been obvious from very early on (or at least it should have been) that Morison is a manager who is going to polarise opinion. The way he conducts himself with the media is unusual to say the least. Some will like his style, others will take exception to it. Surely you can see that?
Ah the pedant speaks. How about this for a selection of words. You choose the one you like best: disappointing, worrying, sad, depressing, pathetic, frustrating, typical (of this board), ill-informed, bloody well wrong. (No doubt this is where is insert another word you decree is more reasonable.)
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
He keeps telling us he’s what he describes as a ‘black and white’ sort of a guy. I think that’s how it’ll be with the fan base. Some will love him because they believe he tells it how it is. Others will hate him because they think he’s a prick. Fun times ahead.
I can't think of many managers that haven't done this to us i.e polarise the fan base but he maybe the quickest??
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
Completely wrong midfield set up to accommodate a striker like Watters, he was pointing out that he wanted the ball played through on the deck. Ok he should have put that header away but his hooked shot that hit the ‘keeper wasn’t a bad effort. Morison’s initial team selection was decidedly iffy and can anyone, hand on heart, say they thought it was a convincing set up pre match? Not a nice way to substitute a young player, half time was less than ten minutes away. Morison could have bollocked Watters privately if he hadn’t carried out his instructions and diplomatically carried the can publicly for his initial team selection especially as he could bask in the ‘master stroke’ changes resulting in a 2-0 win.
After our recent turnaround, Morison should be receiving 100% glowing reports from us, the fans, unfortunately through his own doing he’s dividing the fan base. Very sad.
I agree with you mostly and feel he was a bit harsh, but I suppose he could argue we could have conceded in those last nine minutes in the first half and then lost the game, you have to make the change when you see it's wrong not wait until half time so as not to upset the player.
Where I feel he was wrong was public criticism on Sky Sports, he could have said things weren't working as expected and we needed to make the change.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
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Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
I agree with you mostly and feel he was a bit harsh, but I suppose he could argue we could have conceded in those last nine minutes in the first half and then lost the game, you have to make the change when you see it's wrong not wait until half time so as not to upset the player.
Where I feel he was wrong was public criticism on Sky Sports, he could have said things weren't working as expected and we needed to make the change.
I agree what you suggest about the public criticism bit. For me it's as though he actually relishes it and it's done for Morison's benefit rather than anything else. I'm beginning to wonder if he has a psychopathic personality; it wouldn't be entirely surprising, many successful people do.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Garth Blue
Ah the pedant speaks. How about this for a selection of words. You choose the one you like best: disappointing, worrying, sad, depressing, pathetic, frustrating, typical (of this board), ill-informed, bloody well wrong. (No doubt this is where is insert another word you decree is more reasonable.)
That’s a remarkable post. Truly staggering.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
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Originally Posted by
Nobody's Rep
I can't think of many managers that haven't done this to us i.e polarise the fan base but he maybe the quickest??
He might be, but I think the situation’s a bit different with Morison. Generally, the polarisation tends to happen as a result of styles of play, tactics, team selections, results, etc. In Morison’s case it’s much more about his personality and his demeanour.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pedro de la Rosa
I think it’s staggering so many people are leaping to his defence. He’s done fine. We’re averaging 1.4 points a game. Before this run, he was averaging 1 point a game. He’s made mistakes and yet it’s always someone else’s fault.
I think it's staggering that so many are lining up to put the boot into Morison. The team he picked and managed has just won 4 out of 5 league games, including probably the most crucial match we have played in a number of years, which incidentally produced a 4-0 win and the best performance this season.
Why talk about the points his team accrued before the present run and what relevance does it have ? He needed to recruit players because those he inherited weren't up to the job and all the signs are that he got it spot on.
Nobody could defend MM because his tactics were absurd and the results as bad as it could get. But Morison ? Yes I get it that he's not everybody's cup of tea but football is a results-based business and it looks like he has steered the club away from what could have been a potential relegation nightmare.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
He might be, but I think the situation’s a bit different with Morison. Generally, the polarisation tends to happen as a result of styles of play, tactics, team selections, results, etc. In Morison’s case it’s much more about his personality and his demeanour.
Maybe Dave Jones was personality first before results / style of play / transfers. Can't remember which came first for him?
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OurManFlint II
Danny Gabbidon on the Elis James Podcast some time back was very very clear that the rise of the youth to the 1st team was nothing to do with Steve Morrison.
Did he?!
I need to find that - are you able to expand on what Gabbs said?
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
It was glaringly obvious that front pairing wouldn't work. If he wanted to rest Hugill then Uche or Collins should have started with Davies, not Max. He was set up to fail in that system without any creativity in midfield to supplement his game. All Morison had to say after the game was that HE got it wrong, but instead he sold the young lad down the river.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Moodybluebird
I think it's staggering that so many are lining up to put the boot into Morison. The team he picked and managed has just won 4 out of 5 league games, including probably the most crucial match we have played in a number of years, which incidentally produced a 4-0 win and the best performance this season.
Why talk about the points his team accrued before the present run and what relevance does it have ? He needed to recruit players because those he inherited weren't up to the job and all the signs are that he got it spot on.
Nobody could defend MM because his tactics were absurd and the results as bad as it could get. But Morison ? Yes I get it that he's not everybody's cup of tea but football is a results-based business and it looks like he has steered the club away from what could have been a potential relegation nightmare.
Spot on :thumbup:
Pep Guardi-feckin-ola couldn't put a smile on some peoples' faces :hehe:
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
198bore
It was glaringly obvious that front pairing wouldn't work. If he wanted to rest Hugill then Uche or Collins should have started with Davies, not Max. He was set up to fail in that system without any creativity in midfield to supplement his game. All Morison had to say after the game was that HE got it wrong, but instead he sold the young lad down the river.
Speaking of Pep :facepalm:
:hehe:
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
198bore
It was glaringly obvious that front pairing wouldn't work. If he wanted to rest Hugill then Uche or Collins should have started with Davies, not Max. He was set up to fail in that system without any creativity in midfield to supplement his game. All Morison had to say after the game was that HE got it wrong, but instead he sold the young lad down the river.
I think that would have been a much better answer and endeared him to the fans and players alike (he could have bollocked Watters in private), not that he seems to care, but this ongoing trait is something that could come back to haunt him.
That said, I’m really not that fussed as long as we are improving and winning!
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
198bore
It was glaringly obvious that front pairing wouldn't work. If he wanted to rest Hugill then Uche or Collins should have started with Davies, not Max. He was set up to fail in that system without any creativity in midfield to supplement his game. All Morison had to say after the game was that HE got it wrong, but instead he sold the young lad down the river.
Exactly.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
198bore
It was glaringly obvious that front pairing wouldn't work. If he wanted to rest Hugill then Uche or Collins should have started with Davies, not Max. He was set up to fail in that system without any creativity in midfield to supplement his game. All Morison had to say after the game was that HE got it wrong, but instead he sold the young lad down the river.
Either Watters adapts his game to what the manager is asking him to do, or he goes back to League 1.
I don't get why people are so shocked at this. Morison isn't asking him to be Didier Drogba. He's asking him to protect the ball better and compete more. He wasn't doing that last night and the team was suffering as a result. He's been a passenger in the last 3 games and he needs the penny to drop.
I hope that it does, because if he adds that to the movement and finishing ability he already has, he'll do well at this level.
Whether it was the managers fault or not, he identified and addressed the issue quickly for the benefit of the team. If rather that than MM's 85th minute subs when the game is already gone.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
198bore
It was glaringly obvious that front pairing wouldn't work. If he wanted to rest Hugill then Uche or Collins should have started with Davies, not Max. He was set up to fail in that system without any creativity in midfield to supplement his game. All Morison had to say after the game was that HE got it wrong, but instead he sold the young lad down the river.
Totally agree because it's obvious that starting line up was poor. I think Steve got a get out of jail card last night so I hope he buys Bagan and Harris a pint each.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobby Dandruff
I think that would have been a much better answer and endeared him to the fans and players alike (he could have bollocked Watters in private), not that he seems to care, but this ongoing trait is something that could come back to haunt him.
That said, I’m really not that fussed as long as we are improving and winning!
He's not the first and he certainly won't be the last manager that has a snipe at his players in public. I know Thomas Tuchel did it as soon as he took over at Chelsea but hey ho his team won the Champions League. I'm pretty sure Cloughie too wasn't always complimentary about his players and he didn't have a bad CV either.
Yes we all would like a manager we could warm to who produced teams playing good and successful football but in truth most would forgo likeability for sustained success on the pitch. Remember, it's not a popularity contest and his abrasiveness or straight talking only becomes a problem if he loses the dressing room but there is no sign of that happening just yet.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobby Dandruff
Did he?!
I need to find that - are you able to expand on what Gabbs said?
It was a passing comment along the lines...we need to be careful who we give credit to for the young players coming through, it certainly wasn't Morison that created that path...he mentioned Mick McCarthy as the one insisting they get the opportunity.
I commented on it previously around the time as i thought it was interesting. Not sure what Gabbs does but i know he works with some of the young players.
I'll check my post history :hehe:
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OurManFlint II
It was a passing comment along the lines...we need to be careful who we give credit to for the young players coming through, it certainly wasn't Morison that created that path...he mentioned Mick McCarthy as the one insisting they get the opportunity.
I commented on it previously around the time as i thought it was interesting. Not sure what Gabbs does but i know he works with some of the young players.
I'll check my post history :hehe:
I know he acts as a mentor to Isaak Davies, hes mentioned it on the podcasts. Might even be his agent.
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
He might be, but I think the situation’s a bit different with Morison. Generally, the polarisation tends to happen as a result of styles of play, tactics, team selections, results, etc. In Morison’s case it’s much more about his personality and his demeanour.
Good point re is it results or personality driven but I would say Dave Jones, Russel Slade, Mick Mccarthy and Warnock all had assassins of their character personality and behaviours at some point during their time as manager - mainly through social media and the two main messageboards?
It is going to be interesting to see how this plot develops especially if he is appointed on a permanent basis
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Re: Subs made a huge difference tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Moodybluebird
He's not the first and he certainly won't be the last manager that has a snipe at his players in public. I know Thomas Tuchel did it as soon as he took over at Chelsea but hey ho his team won the Champions League. I'm pretty sure Cloughie too wasn't always complimentary about his players and he didn't have a bad CV either.
Yes we all would like a manager we could warm to who produced teams playing good and successful football but in truth most would forgo likeability for sustained success on the pitch. Remember, it's not a popularity contest and his abrasiveness or straight talking only becomes a problem if he loses the dressing room but there is no sign of that happening just yet.
Agreed. But if there is a sure fire way of losing a dressing room it is.......by slagging off players in public!
That said, let's hope that Morison becomes our Tuchel or ever better Clough! :thumbup: