This flight to Rwanda

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

I was replying to Lither's assertion that only multi-cultural societies end in disaster and bloodshed. If you find the comparison with a mono-cultural society distasteful then it's your choice I guess!

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Did he ever get around to saying who the “real British” were? Does he really think we’d all be living in perfect peace and harmony if only “real British” lived on these islands? Doubt it if we’ll ever get an answer to those questions mind, he’s a classic answer a question with another question merchant when they get a bit awkward.

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Originally Posted by Lither_1927

The case against Tanzania...

"Crime is a serious problem in Tanzania, and visitors should be alert and cautious. Street crime in Dar es Salaam is common and includes mugging, bag snatching, vehicle theft, "smash and grab" attacks on vehicles, armed robbery, burglary, and home invasions."

In early 2015, Maasai and Datoga citizens living in the Morogoro region of Tanzania were victims of deadly, ethnic violence. According to reports from local media, the assaults were instigated by public figures interested in acquiring land, and state authorities have not intervened to protect Maasai citizens. Police protection has instead been given to others who are illegally cultivating officially registered Maasai land.

Due to ongoing assaults, Maasai living in the region are frightened to be in public. They are not receiving health care, attending school and university, or carrying out usual economic activities. Despite appealing to district, regional and national authorities, no protection or recourse to justice has been provided to the affected Maasai citizens or communities to date.

The most recent assaults have been occurring since mid-January 2015, and follow years of poor governance in the Morogoro region. Illegal evictions, dispossession of Massai citizens, and human rights violations have become daily life for indigenous people in the area. Serious concerns were recently voiced in the Tanzanian Parliament, and it is feared that the attacks could descend into ethnic based violence and spread across the country.

The brief calls for urgent action to halt the violence in the Morogoro Region and to put a stop to the current culture of impunity. It states that without strong and public action from the highest levels, Maasai and Datoga citizens will continue to be stigmatized and the prospective of nation-wide violence will remain a threat to stability, development, and peace in Tanzania.

Also, i read that 95% of Tanzania are of the bantu linguistic tradition, with different tribes stemming from that. Have i read right? It was a speed read so maybe i'm wrong.

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San Marino, Japan, Spain...

Bloody hell, I take one night off to enjoy the sun and the whole board goes mental.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Bloody hell, I take one night off to enjoy the sun and the whole board goes mental.

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Are you in the Arctic Circle then? (I was last week)

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Are you in the Arctic Circle then? (I was last week)

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touche!

Portugal

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Portugal

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Are we playing Mallets Mallet now?

Slovakia!

I'm not a fan of Yvette Cooper, but she is one hell of an effective parliamentary speaker.

This is a complete take down of Priti Patel and the Rwanda scheme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNiarD3-8B4

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Originally Posted by Lither_1927

These trafficked people are paying 5.000 pounds a go and they're coming from a safe secure country. They are economic migrants chancing their arm.
And they're massively encouraged by NGOs funded by Jewish Billionaire Soros and Co

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Those pesky jews

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Originally Posted by jon1959

I'm not a fan of Yvette Cooper, but she is one hell of an effective parliamentary speaker.

This is a complete take down of Priti Patel and the Rwanda scheme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNiarD3-8B4

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Patel is a twat

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Originally Posted by jon1959

I'm not a fan of Yvette Cooper, but she is one hell of an effective parliamentary speaker.

This is a complete take down of Priti Patel and the Rwanda scheme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNiarD3-8B4

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I watched this yesterday after PMQ's . It really wasn't. Patel responded to every point and basically asked her her solution. Did you see that too?

It's a bit pointless these videos without the rebuttals.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I watched this yesterday after PMQ's . It really wasn't. Patel responded to every point and basically asked her her solution. Did you see that too?

It's a bit pointless these videos without the rebuttals.

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If as you say she rebutted every point, how much is the scheme costing?

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I watched this yesterday after PMQ's . It really wasn't. Patel responded to every point and basically asked her her solution. Did you see that too?

It's a bit pointless these videos without the rebuttals.

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I've seen both, and Patel didn't come across well

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

If as you say she rebutted every point, how much is the scheme costing?

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I didn't really study the video in order to take an exam in it. I'm just saying, I saw Patels statement, I saw Yvette Coopers response and I saw Patels response to that and both are impressive orators. Seeing one speech in what was effectively a conversation isn't that helpful

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Originally Posted by Rjk

I've seen both, and Patel didn't come across well

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I thought she did well in highlighting the hypocrisy and lack of ideas from the other side tbh. It was a lot of grandstanding.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I thought she did well in highlighting the hypocrisy and lack of ideas from the other side tbh. It was a lot of grandstanding.

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So we just go with the first disgraceful idea that was tabled, due to there not being a conclusive solution on a hugely complex issue?

Denmark is closely watching these developments, as the Social Democratic party (they pose as left of center, but in reality are closer to the Tories when it comes to most things these days) we have in government is also planning on doing the exact same thing. They have the same deals set up with Rwanda...

It's a disgrace. And no I don't have the solution to the worlds migration problems, but I do know that putting people on places to Rwanda is not a solution.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

I'm not a fan of Yvette Cooper, but she is one hell of an effective parliamentary speaker.

This is a complete take down of Priti Patel and the Rwanda scheme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNiarD3-8B4

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I am a big fan of the lady vote for her in a flash as would a lot of floating centralists voters so much better than Raynor .

I think she is the leader Labour need now and should have chosen way back and not marginalised along with a lot of decent MP's via the looney left era just before Sir Tory Kier came in , yes she spoke very well however offered no other real solution and Patel reply was a strong one and resonates with a lot of Labour voters like it or not .?? .

We all know this is clever politics as is the NI protocols , trans issues , re entry to single currency ,supporting the RMT it all resonates , and while Labour sits on their hands worried what others might think 'up north' as we near the next election It gets worse they should be miles ahead of the Tories in the polls ( look back at Blairs poll lead before his election )

Labour are scared to say what they want to really say because there is strong feeling around immigration as it does impact on peoples lives mainly in poorer areas who are already struggling with housing , health etc , a lot of people would never see that impact based on where they live its great lawyers , church leaders , Prince Charles stand up for them but they wont see this in thier area ( in fact they all have enough land , recourse and money between them to house and feed every immigrant ) . NIMBY

Calling all critics and name callers of Patel can someone please show me another workable plan to look after 30k a year migrants coming in closely followed by their relatives years after that .

It Is so easy to say this is wrong or injustice , of course it is .

The irony form me is they crossing 7 safe European borders in Europe to get to the channel why ??

EEC has a huge area massive spending powers etc etc and we are an island that is too generous by far hence the migration .

Ask yourself why all this happen and why the French did not accept the offer from Patel to fund and put on French shores UK agencies .

Perhaps this comment from the Mayor of Calais helps :

""Calais migrants ‘willing to die’ to come to Britain, says French port’s mayor

Natacha Bouchart claims UK has more favourable benefits regime than France, at Commons home affairs meeting

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...enefits-france

All stinks of NIMBY'S

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I thought she did well in highlighting the hypocrisy and lack of ideas from the other side tbh. It was a lot of grandstanding.

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I've got a great idea. Send them all to Iceland. It's closer so we'll save on fuel and it's an island so they will have trouble getting back to the UK shores again.

Also, I believe their human rights record is slightly better than Rwanda's but it'll be so cold that it would be a massive culture shock to the majority of people fleeing from hotter climates.

That could be a deterrent, yeah?

Please don't accuse me of not having come up with any solutions in future as this is clearly a much better idea than the Rwanda policy.

I've just checked and everyone else agrees with me.

I assume you will now allow people to criticise Priti Patel and the government's lack of humanity without accusing us of not coming up with other ideas.

Thanks James. Appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by CopenhagenBlue

So we just go with the first disgraceful idea that was tabled, due to there not being a conclusive solution on a hugely complex issue?

Denmark is closely watching these developments, as the Social Democratic party (they pose as left of center, but in reality are closer to the Tories when it comes to most things these days) we have in government is also planning on doing the exact same thing. They have the same deals set up with Rwanda...

It's a disgrace. And no I don't have the solution to the worlds migration problems, but I do know that putting people on places to Rwanda is not a solution.

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The idea isn't to send lots of people to Rwanda it's that it acts as a deterrent so that thousands of people don't jump the asylum queue by paying criminals thousands of pounds to cross the channel.

I don't see what's disgraceful about it. I think it's disgraceful to not have any tabled solutions to the problem tbh

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Originally Posted by Tito Fuente

I've got a great idea. Send them all to Iceland. It's closer so we'll save on fuel and it's an island so they will have trouble getting back to the UK shores again.

Also, I believe their human rights record is slightly better than Rwanda's but it'll be so cold that it would be a massive culture shock to the majority of people fleeing from hotter climates.

That could be a deterrent, yeah?

Please don't accuse me of not having come up with any solutions in future as this is clearly a much better idea than the Rwanda policy.

I've just checked and everyone else agrees with me.

I assume you will now allow people to criticise Priti Patel and the government's lack of humanity without accusing us of not coming up with other ideas.

Thanks James. Appreciate it.

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You can do what you want. It's just your argument would be stronger if you had an alternative.

What about your lack of humanity at allowing richer migrants to jump the queue and pay criminal gangs to make the crossing from a safe country? Let alone the costs involved when the country is struggling as it is.

Where is your humanity?

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

The idea isn't to send lots of people to Rwanda it's that it acts as a deterrent so that thousands of people don't jump the asylum queue by paying criminals thousands of pounds to cross the channel.

I don't see what's disgraceful about it. I think it's disgraceful to not have any tabled solutions to the problem tbh

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Do you think many in Calais know about it? I doubt it.

I'd say it's more of a communication to groups of voters in the UK than potential asylum seekers abroad

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

You can do what you want. It's just your argument would be stronger if you had an alternative.

What about your lack of humanity at allowing richer migrants to jump the queue and pay criminal gangs to make the crossing from a safe country? Let alone the costs involved when the country is struggling as it is.

Where is your humanity?

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I'm allowing it now, am I? :hehe:

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

The idea isn't to send lots of people to Rwanda it's that it acts as a deterrent so that thousands of people don't jump the asylum queue by paying criminals thousands of pounds to cross the channel.

I don't see what's disgraceful about it. I think it's disgraceful to not have any tabled solutions to the problem tbh

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you don't think it's disgraceful to send people, who you have no idea whether they are ligitimate asylum seekers or not, to a country with a terrible human rights record and pay their oppressive leaders money to do so thereby propping up their oppressive regime?

there is NO indication that this will deter anyone from making the journey. the Home office have done no analysis as to what the numbers will be following this policy.
a refugee fleeing oppression in some far flung country is not going to have a detailed knowledge of our immigration policies, and it's not as though the criminal gangs that will offer to take them to the UK are going to tell them that there's a small chance they'll be flown to Rwanda, or even how dangerous the journey would be.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

The idea isn't to send lots of people to Rwanda it's that it acts as a deterrent so that thousands of people don't jump the asylum queue by paying criminals thousands of pounds to cross the channel.

I don't see what's disgraceful about it. I think it's disgraceful to not have any tabled solutions to the problem tbh

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Disgraceful not having concrete solutions to hugely complex issues? Well lets start at not outsourcing things we don't like and don't want to deal with to other countries (with very recent histories of genocide amongst other problems). Then we can start the debate on where to go from here. Making the world a more even place economically is the ultimate goal, but that essentially means people like ourselves accepting to take a hit on our own quality of life/finances to some degree, at least in the short term. And let's face it, most people are not willing to do that, certainly no Tory would anyway.

You think these flights are a deterrent? You are having a laugh. Say a person came from Libya as an example. If the two insanely dangerous sea crossings on terribly inadequate, overcrowded boats, and who knows what else they face in between didn't stop these people coming, nothing will.

Right now as things stand, I would probably guess that there is no solution to stopping migrants coming to wealthy countries like the UK & Denmark. People want a better life for themselves and their families, and who can blame them. We'd all be doing the same thing if the roles were reversed.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

you don't think it's disgraceful to send people, who you have no idea whether they are ligitimate asylum seekers or not, to a country with a terrible human rights record and pay their oppressive leaders money to do so thereby propping up their oppressive regime?

there is NO indication that this will deter anyone from making the journey. the Home office have done no analysis as to what the numbers will be following this policy.
a refugee fleeing oppression in some far flung country is not going to have a detailed knowledge of our immigration policies, and it's not as though the criminal gangs that will offer to take them to the UK are going to tell them that there's a small chance they'll be flown to Rwanda, or even how dangerous the journey would be.

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I think the policy may help to reduce numbers yes, and that it's worth trying.

You seem to think the killer argument is that analysis doesn't show what the impact will be; but analysis never does, and the situation is pretty unique. You also want to place all faith in a theoretical analysis and none in a practical one. My understanding is that this has made a real difference in similar migration patterns to Australia, no?

Moreover, there remains a total lack of appreciation for the issue or a desire to solve it.

Again, all we've had is:

Let them apply from France (which no doubt France don't want, and wouldnt stop boats anyway)
and
Sanctimony and insults at anyone who thinks this is worth trying.

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Originally Posted by CopenhagenBlue

Disgraceful not having concrete solutions to hugely complex issues? Well lets start at not outsourcing things we don't like and don't want to deal with to other countries (with very recent histories of genocide amongst other problems). Then we can start the debate on where to go from here. Making the world a more even place economically is the ultimate goal, but that essentially means people like ourselves accepting to take a hit on our own quality of life/finances to some degree, at least in the short term. And let's face it, most people are not willing to do that, certainly no Tory would anyway.

You think these flights are a deterrent? You are having a laugh. Say a person came from Libya as an example. If the two insanely dangerous sea crossings on terribly inadequate, overcrowded boats, and who knows what else they face in between didn't stop these people coming, nothing will.

Right now as things stand, I would probably guess that there is no solution to stopping migrants coming to wealthy countries like the UK & Denmark. People want a better life for themselves and their families, and who can blame them. We'd all be doing the same thing if the roles were reversed.

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Of course, it's not difficult to understand. So should the UK and Denmark take in whomever wants to live here? And those that don't should what? What should we do? You are seemingly arguing that literally everyone who comes here should be allowed to stay, or aren't you? And how would you deport people who do arrive illegally?

Those Visit Rwanda sponsorships on the Arsenal shirts in recent seasons might be encouraging more to come to the UK, if they now think they can get a free flight transfer to Kigali.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Of course, it's not difficult to understand. So should the UK and Denmark take in whomever wants to live here? And those that don't should what? What should we do? You are seemingly arguing that literally everyone who comes here should be allowed to stay, or aren't you? And how would you deport people who do arrive illegally?

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Denmark miraculously found space for thousands of Ukrainians recently, whilst at the same time wants to deport migrants from the Middle East/Africa etc... there was even jobs for most of them... So yes, take them all in. The vast majority want to work, and will contribute.

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Originally Posted by CopenhagenBlue

Denmark miraculously found space for thousands of Ukrainians recently, whilst at the same time wants to deport migrants from the Middle East/Africa etc... there was even jobs for most of them... So yes, take them all in. The vast majority want to work, and will contribute.

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Take everyone in? Jeez, okay.

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Originally Posted by OurManFlint II

San Marino, Japan, Spain...

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You're just naming countries that seem nice from a holiday brochure now.
Japan is an ethno state. A Low crime, high trust society, Because they reject mass immigration, their house prices haven't risen much since 1997. Enabling the youth a chance to buy a home. Their government puts the native population first. Our government are selling us out. You have to ask yourself, why is mass immigration happening....who is doing it? And Why...

Spain has immigrant sink estates, they've suffered fatal terrorist attacks from muslim terrorists. And don't forget it's still very early in Spain's mass immigration experiment. It will fragment and decay. Also their third most most popular political party (vox)is "far right" and it's popularity is still growing.

San Marino seems like an ethno state to me.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Did he ever get around to saying who the “real British” were? Does he really think we’d all be living in perfect peace and harmony if only “real British” lived on these islands? Doubt it if we’ll ever get an answer to those questions mind, he’s a classic answer a question with another question merchant when they get a bit awkward.

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I did, if you bothered to read the thread. Although i have to say, Brits pretending to suddenly not know who the native British are, is nothing short of embarrassing. The left wouldn't do this to the plight of Aboriginies, Native American Indian's etc

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Take everyone in? Jeez, okay.

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"Take everyone in" Africa alone has a population of approx. 1.5 Billion
"A new survey of 15 African countries has found that more than half of young people want to leave the continent in the coming years, with the majority of those who emigrate expected to head to Europe."

I don't want to resort to insults but your rhetoric is so crazy. Honestly, have you ever lived or grown up in a immigrant area? People like you won't be happy until indicidual cultures of Europe no longer exist and native Europeans are erased from the planet. You're nuts

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Originally Posted by Lither_1927

"Take everyone in" Africa alone has a population of approx. 1.5 Billion
"A new survey of 15 African countries has found that more than half of young people want to leave the continent in the coming years, with the majority of those who emigrate expected to head to Europe."

I don't want to resort to insults but your rhetoric is so crazy. Honestly, have you ever lived or grown up in a immigrant area? People like you won't be happy until indicidual cultures of Europe no longer exist and native Europeans are erased from the planet. You're nuts

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So where do you live then ? You are happy to throw around opinions of where you think people on here live and whether they are multi cultural or not ......so where do you live and how ....ethnic .....is it ?

Then we can see where you are on the map

Don't be shy

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Take everyone in? Jeez, okay.

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Indeed however might please some :sherlock: as its potentially lots of new future voters and as long as they say away from the NIMBY's job done ???

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

So where do you live then ? You are happy to throw around opinions of where you think people on here live and whether they are multi cultural or not ......so where do you live and how ....ethnic .....is it ?

Then we can see where you are on the map

Don't be shy

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NIMBY alert ????????????

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Originally Posted by life on mars

NIBY alert ????????????

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how can you f**k up spelling NIMBY though

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Originally Posted by Lither_1927

I did, if you bothered to read the thread. Although i have to say, Brits pretending to suddenly not know who the native British are, is nothing short of embarrassing. The left wouldn't do this to the plight of Aboriginies, Native American Indian's etc

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Must admit I gave up on that thread after a while - there was this racist in it.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Take everyone in? Jeez, okay.

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They're coming anyway, regardless of your deportation flights, so best get used to it.

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Originally Posted by Lither_1927

You're just naming countries that seem nice from a holiday brochure now.
Japan is an ethno state. A Low crime, high trust society, Because they reject mass immigration, their house prices haven't risen much since 1997. Enabling the youth a chance to buy a home. Their government puts the native population first. Our government are selling us out. You have to ask yourself, why is mass immigration happening....who is doing it? And Why...

Spain has immigrant sink estates, they've suffered fatal terrorist attacks from muslim terrorists. And don't forget it's still very early in Spain's mass immigration experiment. It will fragment and decay. Also their third most most popular political party (vox)is "far right" and it's popularity is still growing.

San Marino seems like an ethno state to me.

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Saudi Arabia, Russia, Mexico, Kuwait

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Originally Posted by CopenhagenBlue

They're coming anyway, regardless of your deportation flights, so best get used to it.

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Wow, okay. I thought it was just a small number of people fleeing persecution. Now it's about accepting anyone who wants to come to the country, whenever they want to do it.