-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
Unfortunately, The Guardian is as predictable as the Daily Mail.
I’d be interested to know which party you think the Guardian is aligned to as strongly as the Mail is to the Conservatives. I’d describe the Guardian as anti Conservative more than anything else - a bit like me.
The Mirror’s a Labour paper, not sure the Guardian is, but, if it is, it’s a fairly recent transition.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I’d be interested to know which party you think the Guardian is allied to as strongly as the Mail is to the Conservatives. I’d describe the Guardian as anti Conservative more than anything else - a bit like me.
The Mirror’s a Labour paper, not sure the Guardian is, but, if it is, it’s a fairly recent transition.
There's the predictability I mentioned.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
It's a little OTT that, a bit of a hatchet job. Nearly every politician tries to play up how ordinary their background or current lives are - that's par for the course. Indeed, par for society really.
Leeds North East is part of the red-wall and she did grow up there.
It’s a Labour seat that was Sir Keith Joseph’s old constituency for thirty one years, hardly your typical red wall seat. Maybe it is a hatchet job, I don’t know and neither do you, but it gives an alternative view of the place Liz Truss has rubbished - your default position is to disbelieve the story, mine is the opposite.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
There's the predictability I mentioned.
So which party does it back? I can think of six national daily’s that are Conservative backers at election time and three which tend not to endorse the Conservatives, but only one of those consistently backs the Labour Party. It’s hardly a fair balance and I’d also remind you that Wikipedia does not consider the Daily Mail reliable enough to use as a reference. Despite its faults, the Guardian is a far more objective paper than the Mail
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
It’s a Labour seat that was Sir Keith Joseph’s old constituency for thirty one years, hardly your typical red wall seat. Maybe it is a hatchet job, I don’t know and neither do you, but it gives an alternative view of the place Liz Truss has rubbished - your default position is to disbelieve the story, mine is the opposite.
No, my default position is to trust journalists no more than I do politicians. In fact, given no one elected them, and they only have to give their readership what they want to read, I probably trust them even less.
It's just predictable stuff, which after a while gets very boring. Whether it's the Daily Mail picking on Corbyns suit, or the guardian finding some journalist to pull apart Liz Truss's back story..it's all just pulling people in one direction and away from any sensible middle ground.
Guardian nearly always supports Labour, sometimes Lib Dems, although from recollection I think TOBW is right in that their position is generally anti-conservative more than anything. Very grown up.
I think the standard of writing is higher at the guardian than the Mail - one is a tabloid and one isn't says it all. Where the guardian falls down is in it's editorial purity. You simply won't read about a story that isn't aligned to it's editorial position - so everything about brexit is negative, everything about the Tories is negative etc etc. It's just not reporting things as they are.
Daily Mail probably has a greater diversity of opinion in all honesty - and it shows.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
No, my default position is to trust journalists no more than I do politicians. In fact, given no one elected them, and they only have to give their readership what they want to read, I probably trust them even less.
It's just predictable stuff, which after a while gets very boring. Whether it's the Daily Mail picking on Corbyns suit, or the guardian finding some journalist to pull apart Liz Truss's back story..it's all just pulling people in one direction and away from any sensible middle ground.
Guardian nearly always supports Labour, sometimes Lib Dems, although from recollection I think TOBW is right in that their position is generally anti-conservative more than anything. Very grown up.
I think the standard of writing is higher at the guardian than the Mail - one is a tabloid and one isn't says it all. Where the guardian falls down is in it's editorial purity. You simply won't read about a story that isn't aligned to it's editorial position - so everything about brexit is negative, everything about the Tories is negative etc etc. It's just not reporting things as they are.
Daily Mail probably has a greater diversity of opinion in all honesty - and it shows.
James Wales has “pronounced” in his inimitable fashion, so that’s an end to the discussion then.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
So which party does it back? I can think of six national daily’s that are Conservative backers at election time and three which tend not to endorse the Conservatives, but only one of those consistently backs the Labour Party. It’s hardly a fair balance and I’d also remind you that Wikipedia does not consider the Daily Mail reliable enough to use as a reference. Despite its faults, the Guardian is a far more objective paper than the Mail
I didn't mention a party it backs, Bob. I merely mentioned its predictability.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
I didn't mention a party it backs, Bob. I merely mentioned its predictability.
You were saying it’s just the same as the Daily Mail, I don’t see how it can be when it doesn’t always slavishly endorse the same party.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
You were saying it’s just the same as the Daily Mail, I don’t see how it can be when it doesn’t always slavishly endorse the same party.
I said it was as predictable. I didn't say it was the same.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
I just found out that Penny Muardant is one of them childless freak career women. Which should automatically ban her from the leadership race and Parliament, if i had my way. She's also intellectually barren.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lither_1927
I just found out that Penny Muardant is one of them childless freak career women. Which should automatically ban her from the leadership race and Parliament, if i had my way. She's also intellectually barren.
Says a man who misspelt her name.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
Says a man who misspelt her name.
He's got form remember, he misspelt his own!
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
Says a man who misspelt her name.
Petty
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lither_1927
Petty
Tom? Don't forget the Heartbreakers!
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
I said it was as predictable. I didn't say it was the same.
The Guardian carries a weekly column by the deputy political editor of the right wing magazine The Spectator and I’ve read plenty of articles written by Conservative MPs in there down the years. The Guardian is “predictable” to the extent that it has a political position and, by and large, it reflects that, but show me a UK National newspaper that doesn’t do that - even the Daily Star carries political headlines on occasions these days and the former Independent is no longer that, all of them are “predictable” to varying degrees.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
James Wales has “pronounced” in his inimitable fashion, so that’s an end to the discussion then.
You've said this before Bob, and I'm not sure why, it doesn't seem fair. This is a forum, by definition people are expressing a view and then inviting others to respond - I suppose we could all bookend each post with I think at the start and do you agree? at the end, but I think that's a given isn't it?
The discussion isn't over, and if you can't think of a response, that isn't my problem! There are people with far worse writing styles on here than me as you well know.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
You've said this before Bob, and I'm not sure why, it doesn't seem fair. This is a forum, by definition people are expressing a view and then inviting others to respond - I suppose we could all bookend each post with I think at the start and do you agree? at the end, but I think that's a given isn't it?
The discussion isn't over, and if you can't think of a response, that isn't my problem! There are people with far worse writing styles on here than me as you well know.
Is that a fact or your personal opinion? :hide:
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
Is that a fact or your personal opinion? :hide:
Ha, that's an opinion!
What is a fact is that some people are very strong in their borderline hatred of certain groups on here, which many people are quiet about. That's what I refer to on this occasion.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
That's an opinion.
What is a fact is that some people are very strong in their borderline hatred of certain groups on here, which many people are quiet about. That's what I refer to on this occasion.
I was merely being playful, old fruit.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
I was merely being playful, old fruit.
Nooo, I know. Sorry old bean. I did edit it to add a jolly 'Ha' and fun loving '!' to emphasise, but you were too quick off the mark..
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Nooo, I know. Sorry old bean. I did edit it to add a jolly 'Ha' and fun loving '!' to emphasise, but you were too quick off the mark..
I sincerely apologise for my rapier-like reaction. If this was the Wild West you would have been a goner, you know.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
You've said this before Bob, and I'm not sure why, it doesn't seem fair. This is a forum, by definition people are expressing a view and then inviting others to respond - I suppose we could all bookend each post with I think at the start and do you agree? at the end, but I think that's a given isn't it?
The discussion isn't over, and if you can't think of a response, that isn't my problem! There are people with far worse writing styles on here than me as you well know.
The thing is that the invitation to respond you refer to is difficult to recognise in your case as your stuff often reads as if you are ruling on what’s been said and trying to close the conversation down.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Tobias Ellwood has had the Tory whip withdrawn - that’s what happened to Penny Maurdent’s missing vote.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...onfidence-vote
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
The thing is that the invitation to respond you refer to is difficult to recognise in your case as your stuff often reads as if you are ruling on what’s been said and trying to close the conversation down.
I wrote 'I think' twice in the post. It's pretty clear, I'm not trying to shut anything down :shrug:
I'll take it as a compliment that my post was so devastating in it's accuracy that any response is impossible! (I'm joking here..!) :ayatollah:
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Badenoch out just as she was topping the latest poll of Tory party members. Having seen that poll, it seems to me that Truss will become our next Prime Minister.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Badenoch out just as she was topping the latest poll of Tory party members. Having seen that poll, it seems to me that Truss will become our next Prime Minister.
I'm afraid you moght be right Bob.
I wasn't expecting nearly half of Tugendhats supporters to go to Truss
And I expect the majority of Badenoch supporters to switch to Truss now.
But who knows?
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elwood Blues
I'm afraid you moght be right Bob.
I wasn't expecting nearly half of Tugendhats supporters to go to Truss
And I expect the majority of Badenoch supporters to switch to Truss now.
But who knows?
How about this for a long shot? I can’t see many Badenoch supporters switching to Sunak, so, with that poll appearing to confirm he’s got no chance of winning the members vote, would his MP supporters realise the game is up for him and start switching their votes to Truss and Maudent and we get two women contenders?
Think it’s a bit too far fetched, but not by much - Truss is surely going to get more of the Badenoch vote than Maudent, but I honestly believe she’s the worst of the last five candidates as far as winning the next election for the Tories is concerned.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Badenoch out just as she was topping the latest poll of Tory party members. Having seen that poll, it seems to me that Truss will become our next Prime Minister.
Every cloud has a silver lining. I'm rooting for Liz 👍
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
How about this for a long shot? I can’t see many Badenoch supporters switching to Sunak, so, with that poll appearing to confirm he’s got no chance of winning the members vote, would his MP supporters realise the game is up for him and start switching their votes to Truss and Maudent and we get two women contenders?
Think it’s a bit too far fetched, but not by much - Truss is surely going to get more of the Badenoch vote than Maudent, but I honestly believe she’s the worst of the last five candidates as far as winning the next election for the Tories is concerned.
While I tend to agree with your analysis in your final paragraph Bob, as I pointed out in another thread, probably the only chance she has is if she picks a decent Cabinet rather than Boris Johnsons which had too many yes men (or women) and nonentities.
Unfortunately since both Jacob Rees-Mogg and Nadine Dorries backed her strongly at the start, I fear she may include them again.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
Whatever you say, Boris is a compulsive liar and is a man of limited ethics. He has a history of deceit and not being a team player. I don't think there is a 'need' for that type of politician.
No. Boris is just open about his contemptable behaviour, the rest are deceitful in that they try and hide it
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DryCleaning
No. Boris is just open about his contemptable behaviour, the rest are deceitful in that they try and hide it
You sincerely believe that he hasn't lied to his previous employes, his ex-partners and ex-wives, the public and even to members of his own party?
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Sunak and Truss it is then.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Sunak and Truss it is then.
The pork markets will be booming.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Plummy posh voiced old cow
