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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
az city
What? In 1694?
Try again sweetcheeks
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DryCleaning
Try again sweetcheeks
Abhorrent misogynistic and derogatory name calling. Shocking. The exact type of social cleansing that is endemic in the right these days.
I do hope James and Wales-Bales condemn such language.
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Canton Kev
Abhorrent misogynistic and derogatory name calling. Shocking. The exact type of social cleansing that is endemic in the right these days.
I do hope James and Wales-Bales condemn such language.
I'll retract whatever has offended you, just don't lump me I with those two.
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DryCleaning
The markets are spooked by the lack of forecast from the OBR and the contradiction in policy to what BoE are trying to achieve.
"spooked" ? Or an opportunity to make some significant short-term financial gains under the cloak of bad politics ?
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Institute Of Fiscal Studies
Huge government borrowing .....not funded
Inflation 40 year high
Tax cuts for the wealthy
Interest rates 14 year high
Pound at lowest v dollar since 1985
Markets very fragile
Artificial boom created instead of real growth
God help us
UK announces getting rid of the 45% tax rate that will cost £2.4bn next year - IMF intervenes and markets in meltdown.
UK pledges more than £2.4bn to Ukraine and no market response
Same outcome - £2.4bn cost to UK taxpayer
https://twitter.com/statsjamie/statu...NQi6VqYfUZUNjg
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TWGL1
UK announces getting rid of the 45% tax rate that will cost £2.4bn next year - IMF intervenes and markets in meltdown.
UK pledges more than £2.4bn to Ukraine and no market response
Same outcome - £2.4bn cost to UK taxpayer
https://twitter.com/statsjamie/statu...NQi6VqYfUZUNjg
Seems a bit of a strawman. Most of the media coverage I have seen has been going out of their way to say that whilst the 45% announcement is political dynamite, it doesn't amount to enough money to influence anything on its own.
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
A Quiet Monkfish
"spooked" ? Or an opportunity to make some significant short-term financial gains under the cloak of bad politics ?
There's always an opportunity to make money
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
A Quiet Monkfish
"spooked" ? Or an opportunity to make some significant short-term financial gains under the cloak of bad politics ?
Meanwhile my pension pot has shrunk by over £10K in a week. Thanks Kwarsi.
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
Meanwhile my pension pot has shrunk by over £10K in a week. Thanks Kwarsi.
I hope you have decided not to vote Tory from now on ?
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TWGL1
UK announces getting rid of the 45% tax rate that will cost £2.4bn next year - IMF intervenes and markets in meltdown.
UK pledges more than £2.4bn to Ukraine and no market response
Same outcome - £2.4bn cost to UK taxpayer
https://twitter.com/statsjamie/statu...NQi6VqYfUZUNjg
He's clearly a tory and so are you if you believe what he's saying
It's not just the tax rate issue that has caused the markets to react 🙄
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
Meanwhile my pension pot has shrunk by over £10K in a week. Thanks Kwarsi.
Has your pension provider sold the funds, or is this just a fall in current market values? The only time a valuation is important is when you convert your pension funds into income. If you've not done that, then there is always time to recover.
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
He's clearly a tory and so are you if you believe what he's saying
It's not just the tax rate issue that has caused the markets to react ��
Sludge
The primary reason the markets have reacted is that fiscal policy and monetary policy are at odds, and the OBR has yet to provide an updated forecast.
you'll be aware that as of this morning, almost all losses incurred in the past week have been recovered. Typical city boys playing fast and loose with politics to make a killing. This is not new.
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DryCleaning
Sludge
The primary reason the markets have reacted is that fiscal policy and monetary policy are at odds, and the OBR has yet to provide an updated forecast.
you'll be aware that as of this morning, almost all losses incurred in the past week have been recovered. Typical city boys playing fast and loose with politics to make a killing. This is not new.
The IMF rapping a Tory Government's financial approach and the Bank of England having to intervene to prevent a run on pension funds is though.
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
How did so many Tory tw@ts vote for Truss.?
Incredible.
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
He's clearly a tory and so are you if you believe what he's saying
It's not just the tax rate issue that has caused the markets to react 🙄
The pound has bounced back to pre - announcement levels.
If the tax cut gets the economy moving, which raises overall wealth for ALL Brits. Why are people bothered how wealthy somebody else is? Smacks of jealousy, unless i'm being simplistic.
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
The IMF rapping a Tory Government's financial approach and the Bank of England having to intervene to prevent a run on pension funds is though.
Why does it matter if gilts fall in value, other than if the holder is selling? Lower priced assets make the gilt more attractive to those taking a long position. The BoE buying back gilts in the way they did was to get them on the cheap. Whilst the BoE is nominally independent of political influence, its still the government's banker and has to act in its best interests.
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DryCleaning
Why does it matter if gilts fall in value, other than if the holder is selling? Lower priced assets make the gilt more attractive to those taking a long position. The BoE buying back gilts in the way they did was to get them on the cheap. Whilst the BoE is nominally independent of political influence, its still the government's banker and has to act in its best interests.
You don’t seem to get it, you’re trying to make it sound like the week which started on last Friday morning was just business as usual - clearly,it wasn’t.
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
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Originally Posted by
HyperboreanCCFC
The pound has bounced back to pre - announcement levels.
If the tax cut gets the economy moving, which raises overall wealth for ALL Brits. Why are people bothered how wealthy somebody else is? Smacks of jealousy, unless i'm being simplistic.
Is there any evidence that tax cuts boost economic output?
Surely a better approach would have extended the capital allowances super deduction. Businesses need to reinvest profits to improve UK Plc productivity, and we've seen significant improvement in investment in the past two years. Why not keep that going, which lowers long term costs and improves profitability and productivity, along with future Corp tax, VAT and PAYE receipts?
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
You don’t seem to get it, you’re trying to make it sound like the week which started on last Friday morning was just business as usual - clearly,it wasn’t.
Thanks for being condescending. I'm pretty sure I know the markets better than you bob, how they work and how short and long positions often conflict.
The markets have returned to as they were pre mini budget. The funds who were taken by surprise with the tax cuts offloaded their assets whereas those who had taken time to digest have now acquired cheaper assets. The losers are the funds that were caught hopping and the winners are the funds that saw an opportunity.
It happens every day in the markets - this time the underlying cause were political however tomorrow it could be a drought in Kenya.
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HyperboreanCCFC
The pound has bounced back to pre - announcement levels.
If the tax cut gets the economy moving, which raises overall wealth for ALL Brits. Why are people bothered how wealthy somebody else is? Smacks of jealousy, unless i'm being simplistic.
Nothing of the sort, it's basic morality. Yes you're being simplistic.
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HyperboreanCCFC
The pound has bounced back to pre - announcement levels.
If the tax cut gets the economy moving, which raises overall wealth for ALL Brits. Why are people bothered how wealthy somebody else is? Smacks of jealousy, unless i'm being simplistic.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Bonkers.
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HyperboreanCCFC
The pound has bounced back to pre - announcement levels.
If the tax cut gets the economy moving, which raises overall wealth for ALL Brits. Why are people bothered how wealthy somebody else is? Smacks of jealousy, unless i'm being simplistic.
The simple answer is because taxation pays for vital services. If people get wealthy adding value then more power to them. I think business investment more often than not hinges on a decent education system, a stable economy, a healthy workforce. The current government believe it depends solely on low taxation and will try to convince you to think the same.
Out of interest, did you need to be given any evidence that tax cuts inherently cause growth before you decided to support the budget that wasn't a budget?
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
The simple answer is because taxation pays for vital services. If people get wealthy adding value then more power to them. I think business investment more often than not hinges on a decent education system, a stable economy, a healthy workforce. The current government believe it depends solely on low taxation and will try to convince you to think the same.
Out of interest, did you need to be given any evidence that tax cuts inherently cause growth before you decided to support the budget that wasn't a budget?
Im stunned you actually responded to such a ridiculous post. We are all going to be more wealthy. FFS. 😂😂😂
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
The simple answer is because taxation pays for vital services. If people get wealthy adding value then more power to them. I think business investment more often than not hinges on a decent education system, a stable economy, a healthy workforce. The current government believe it depends solely on low taxation and will try to convince you to think the same.
Out of interest, did you need to be given any evidence that tax cuts inherently cause growth before you decided to support the budget that wasn't a budget?
Look, I think the way the budget was presented was wrong, and I think the 45% top rate scrapping is wrong..
But..
It's only a few short months since the UK took the tax burden to "1940's levels"
https://inews.co.uk/news/spring-stat...eaways-1535611
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b...ears-qsrx0wxxw
and opposition MP's were criticising tax rises
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60189393
Maybe these reforms will work?
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Jimbo, how many times do you have to be told TRICKLE DOWN DOES NOT WORK.
(Still waiting for the apology.)
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
You are happy with 'maybe' being the basis for government policy? Shall we just throw darts at a list of mental ideas?
This is a right wing experiment and we are their lab rats.
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HyperboreanCCFC
The pound has bounced back to pre - announcement levels.
If the tax cut gets the economy moving, which raises overall wealth for ALL Brits. Why are people bothered how wealthy somebody else is? Smacks of jealousy, unless i'm being simplistic.
You are simple
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Fact .The highest earning 1% in the UK pay an estimated 28% of all income tax – not the total “tax burden”. This is close to a record level.
I think the budget move is to motivate those big earners to stay as they are usually business people who provide growth and jobs.
I think the missing bit of the tax stimulus was those in the middle incomes I'd brought thier tax down from 40 % to 38% . and gave lower earners a 2% cut or raised threshold to 15000 before tax kicks in .
Don't forget lower paid workers up to the 39k were already taken out of the NI rise.
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Fact .The highest earning 1% in the UK pay an estimated 28% of all income tax – not the total “tax burden”. This is close to a record level.
I think the budget move is to motivate those big earners to stay as they are usually business people who provide growth and jobs.
I think the missing bit of the tax stimulus was those in the middle incomes I'd brought thier tax down from 40 % to 38% . and gave lower earners a 2% cut or raised threshold to 15000 before tax kicks in .
Don't forget lower paid workers up to the 39k were already taken out of the NI rise.
You don't understand the fundamentals of the THEORY on how trickle down economics works. Giving tax cuts to lower or middle earners has no effect in the theory.
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
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Originally Posted by
az city
You don't understand the fundamentals of the THEORY on how trickle down economics works. Giving tax cuts to lower or middle earners has no effect in the theory.
Its a theory Adz, just like all of economics. You can read too many books.
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
The UK collects around 36% (or thereabouts) of GDP in taxation and this has hovered around 32-33% for many years. We are nowhere near the borrowing of WW2 (which hit 270% of GDP) and its disingenuous to suggest we are. It took many years after the war for borrowing / gdp to return to the peacetime levels we see today.
It is correct to say this government is collecting more in tax revenue than it ever has, but that's due to inflation and the time value of money. Our borrowing as a GDP% is only slightly above pre-pandemic levels.
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Let's be fair and honest about this ,this budget has many connotations,:
Reacting to Labour's accusations under Boris they were of the Party higher taxing government not Labour ?
Truss had to be opposite to Sunaks left leaning budget tact.
It created a big Truss headline and puts her in folks minds negating the Boris effect (which is huge ) any news is good news for Truss ..
Not sure why everyone is getting all pissy for those who wanted a change Boris gone and were awaiting,
Optimising revenues, drives fiscal policy .. drives public services, not complicated.
Osbourne cut top rate from 50 to 45 and it raised more revenues from that group as it attracted investment.. Brown hyked it( as he left )
IR35 Is gone another Brown decesion ,which penalised poorer self employed workers , no one is talking about that .
Whilst we're on bad budgets decesion anyone remember the chaos of his 10p tax fiasco which hurt pensioners ..
I see this action the same as Gordon Brown's when he raised taxes before leaving ,knowing his party was buggered after in fighting with Blair..
Groundhog day now with electable Boris is done like Blair less capable Truss in .. she cuts taxes though less capable Brown raised them.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...my.gordonbrown
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
I couldn't find the 'fair' and 'honest' bits.
:shrug:
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
I couldn't find the 'fair' and 'honest' bits.
:shrug:
I remember he said once "I used to vote Labour" 😂😂,😂
I think he has vivid dreams, bless.
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DryCleaning
Thanks for being condescending. I'm pretty sure I know the markets better than you bob, how they work and how short and long positions often conflict.
The markets have returned to as they were pre mini budget. The funds who were taken by surprise with the tax cuts offloaded their assets whereas those who had taken time to digest have now acquired cheaper assets. The losers are the funds that were caught hopping and the winners are the funds that saw an opportunity.
It happens every day in the markets - this time the underlying cause were political however tomorrow it could be a drought in Kenya.
It’s a bit rich accusing me of being condescending when you’re telling me you know more about the markets than me. That said, I’m not going to deny you’re right about the markets as I find financial matters boring. However, what is clear from this exchange is that your political judgement is badly lacking. It’s not the markets you place such faith in which are responsible for the wretched reception the mini budget has received - it’s the people who do the voting. There’s another poll this morning recording a highest ever Labour lead in which seventy one per cent of Tory voters from 2019 say the Government has lost control of the economy.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...was-forced-out
Do you think they’re blithely saying it’s just the markets and it’ll all be forgotten about in two years time in Conservative party HQ? I bet you they’re not because they realise they have a leader that is an electoral liability. She’s comes over poorly on the media, she’s a poor public speaking and I believe she is not liked by the electorate. I never understood why, but Johnson had a level of personal support he could rely on no matter how bad things got. Truss has none of that and she’ll have to be a good Prime Minister for that situation to change - she’s not made the best of starts there has she.
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
I couldn't find the 'fair' and 'honest' bits.
:shrug:
:hehe: looks like he’s given up on adding “balance” these days.
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Let's be fair and honest about this ,this budget has many connotations,:
Reacting to Labour's accusations under Boris they were of the Party higher taxing government not Labour ?
This is nonsense, not a good start. Labour were critical of the Tories in this regard because they near constantly promoted themselves as the party of low taxation, their 'accusations' were about continual lying. Let's not also forget, high tax and worse public services year on year shouldn't be acceptable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Truss had to be opposite to Sunaks left leaning budget tact.
I don't even know where to start.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
It created a big Truss headline and puts her in folks minds negating the Boris effect (which is huge ) any news is good news for Truss ..
The polls aren't backing that up right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Not sure why everyone is getting all pissy for those who wanted a change Boris gone and were awaiting,
People wanted Boris gone because of a lack of credibility, nothing has changed in that regard. Even if Truss goes, it won't change because we have a system where a small out of touch minority pick the next PM unless we reach the end of an election cycle. There has to be a better way than this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Optimising revenues, drives fiscal policy .. drives public services, not complicated.
I think the issue here is actually that it is bloody complicated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Osbourne cut top rate from 50 to 45 and it raised more revenues from that group as it attracted investment..
Wrong, behaviour changed (because people were forewarned about the change) and people delayed payments that would have otherwise been recorded in the previous tax year. HMRC said as much at the time, you chose to ignore that and believe the politician. Regardless of that, we are in a very different part of the cycle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
IR35 Is gone another Brown decesion ,which penalised poorer self employed workers , no one is talking about that .
Wrong, they are repealing amendments made to IR35 in 2017 and 2021. The original legislation stays in place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Whilst we're on bad budgets decesion anyone remember the chaos of his 10p tax fiasco which hurt pensioners ..
'The last Labour government...' Yawn.
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
“Would you believe it: a revolution sold to the public as the very essence of anti elitism turns out to be the most elitist project modern British politics has ever seen.”
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...asses-betrayal
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
It’s a bit rich accusing me of being condescending when you’re telling me you know more about the markets than me. That said, I’m not going to deny you’re right about the markets as I find financial matters boring. However, what is clear from this exchange is that your political judgement is badly lacking. It’s not the markets you place such faith in which are responsible for the wretched reception the mini budget has received - it’s the people who do the voting. There’s another poll this morning recording a highest ever Labour lead in which seventy one per cent of Tory voters from 2019 say the Government has lost control of the economy.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...was-forced-out
Do you think they’re blithely saying it’s just the markets and it’ll all be forgotten about in two years time in Conservative party HQ? I bet you they’re not because they realise they have a leader that is an electoral liability. She’s comes over poorly on the media, she’s a poor public speaking and I believe she is not liked by the electorate. I never understood why, but Johnson had a level of personal support he could rely on no matter how bad things got. Truss has none of that and she’ll have to be a good Prime Minister for that situation to change - she’s not made the best of starts there has she.
With all due respect Bob I've not made any comment on the politics, I've made comment on what drives the markets.
Saying that i'm not denying that the current polls paint a very grim picture, but no elections are ever won via mid term polls. However I don't pay much attention to opinion polls, because even on election night, they can be hopelessly wrong.
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Re: Kwarteng says highest rate of income tax being abolished, and basic rate being cut to 19% from next April
Quote:
Originally Posted by
az city
Jimbo, how many times do you have to be told TRICKLE DOWN DOES NOT WORK.
(Still waiting for the apology.)
It does, and that's not a political answer. Where do you think money, wages, come from ? It comes from trade, buying, selling, making a profit, employing people. It's exactly how economies throughout the world work.
