These Electric car things are great, in they. NOT !!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Optimistic Nick

Worth noting that ev brakes a) regenerate energy and b) need replacing less regularly. Tyres: yeah I suspect they do wear more quickly than ICE due to the extra weight so that is probably fair. EVs do have specific tyres (or at least mine does) which might be designed to mitigate this (dunno) but I suspect that yes they wear out a bit more quickly than tyres on an ICE. but as you say: how does it stack against the other environmental factors?

This level of environmental concern might be genuine of course, but if it is it is then it's hard to reconcile worrying about EV break pads with any form of car ownership, and certainly with using a car to travel the long distances at which recharging on motorways would require.

But to put his mind at ease on some other points:

EV batteries are recycled and reused in things like domestic storage batteries. They are bloody expensive, I think they look to squeeze every minute of useful life out of them.

EV chargers are located at motorway service stations so the extra fraction of a mile to detour when on the motorway is a non issue

Yes EV chargers at service stations are expensive, just as petrol is. You use it if you have to, which - given modern EV ranges - wouldnt be that often for many people. Overall assuming you can charge at home, the price per mile for EV should be a lot lower than ICE. I have a large, heavy, inefficient EV. My average price per mile is a little under 4p which is more than the 2.5p when I first got it and electricity prices were lower, but still way cheaper than any ICE I've ever had.

Obviously you have extreme cases of people driving from Cardiff to Newcastle and back on a daily basis or whatever but EV isnt really viable for them yet and even if it was, anyone worried about the environmental damage of extra mileage to the on-route charger wouldnt be driving that journey anyway and would be taking public transport.

There are genuine barriers to mass adoption of EVs, the main one being that unless you have access to a home or office charger on a frequent basis, it's not going to be viable. And a lot of people will fall into that category. But his environmental concerns are a bit... odd.

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Thanks for your well thought-out reply, Nick.

I think you've covered all bases with that.

Thoughts TWGL?

Got a plug in Hybrid , its averaging with petrol /electric charge at 111 mpg .

Plugged in I get silly MPG

Cost at home to charge its £7

Thankfully, fortunately its a business car so I get to charge it at work as a freebie ..

Best drive ever .

Don't understand why the green lobby haven't attacked me yet as its carbon creation footprint is mad .

I do feel that the future has to change , if we go to no fossil fuel how will the poorer in society get to buy one these crazy prices machines .

As the boss of one of the big fuel companies pointed out to mad Greta , he has done more in the last 20 years than anyone to redcue pollution , banning fossil fuels too early wont fix this it will just hurt the economy and poor in society

Bullshit
EV chargers are located at motorway service stations so the extra fraction of a mile to detour when on the motorway is a non issue

There are instances where people have had to queue for hours (even getting overstay fines) at motorway services

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Got a plug in Hybrid , its averaging with petrol /electric charge at 111 mpg .

Plugged in I get silly MPG

Cost at home to charge its £7

Thankfully, fortunately its a business car so I get to charge it at work as a freebie ..

Best drive ever .

Don't understand why the green lobby haven't attacked me yet as its carbon creation footprint is mad .

I do feel that the future has to change , if we go to no fossil fuel how will the poorer in society get to buy one these crazy prices machines .

As the boss of one of the big fuel companies pointed out to mad Greta , he has done more in the last 20 years than anyone to redcue pollution , banning fossil fuels too early wont fix this it will just hurt the economy and poor in society

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"As the boss of one of the big fuel companies pointed out to mad Greta , he has done more in the last 20 years than anyone to redcue pollution"

Nice to see that satire is alive and well :hehe:

On EV ownership the negatives far outweigh the positives
From initial cost to second hand value
Then there’s the “What about the children of the future brigade”
Please go over to Angola and stop the exploitation of these young children digging the Lithium out of the ground for EV batteries
We can argue this thread for a week and never agree
As I’ve said earlier in the thread I borrowed my sister’s EV for a weekend and couldn’t wait to give it back

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunnysideup

On EV ownership the negatives far outweigh the positives
From initial cost to second hand value
Then there’s the “What about the children of the future brigade”
Please go over to Angola and stop the exploitation of these young children digging the Lithium out of the ground for EV batteries
We can argue this thread for a week and never agree
As I’ve said earlier in the thread I borrowed my sister’s EV for a weekend and couldn’t wait to give it back

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Where do all the components of a smart phone come from?

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Originally Posted by BLUETIT

Bullshit
EV chargers are located at motorway service stations so the extra fraction of a mile to detour when on the motorway is a non issue

There are instances where people have had to queue for hours (even getting overstay fines) at motorway services

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No they are not , plan a journey from Cardiff to North Yorkshire where you need a Tesla supercharger and work out the detour , I’ve done it in a Tesla and it’s a nightmare.

Probably takes at least an hour longer and that’s with a clear run in summertime.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

No they are not , plan a journey from Cardiff to North Yorkshire where you need a Tesla supercharger and work out the detour , I’ve done it in a Tesla and it’s a nightmare.

Probably takes at least an hour longer and that’s with a clear run in summertime.

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IF YOU READ MY POST PROPERLY, YOU SHOULD HAVE NOTICED THAT THIS BIT
EV chargers are located at motorway service stations so the extra fraction of a mile to detour when on the motorway is a non issue
WAS COPIED FROM A PREVIOUS POST, and I was saying it was BULLSHIT

Read what’s written, not what you think is written

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BLUETIT

IF YOU READ MY POST PROPERLY, YOU SHOULD HAVE NOTICED THAT THIS BIT
EV chargers are located at motorway service stations so the extra fraction of a mile to detour when on the motorway is a non issue
WAS COPIED FROM A PREVIOUS POST, and I was saying it was BULLSHIT

Read what’s written, not what you think is written

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Ok cheers , my mistake .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

Ok cheers , my mistake .

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:thumbup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tito Fuente

"As the boss of one of the big fuel companies pointed out to mad Greta , he has done more in the last 20 years than anyone to redcue pollution"

Nice to see that satire is alive and well :hehe:

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Are you honestly suggesting that fuel and car companies have not been ploughing, research and money in effort to clean up the use of fuel and cars , over the last 20 years ??

The man in question was on about doing something tangible , Greta and the rich gang , who can afford to protest and not work don't solution tangible /deliverable results , they just protest , fuel and car companies have spent millions in research and change of technologies, so yes they have done more .. probably before she was born

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

Where do all the components of a smart phone come from?

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The earth ,love to know the carbon footprint on that one , ring Greta's smartphone or she using pigeon theses days ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Are you honestly suggesting that fuel and car companies have not been ploughing, research and money in effort to clean up the use of fuel and cars , over the last 20 years ??

The man in question was on about doing something tangible , Greta and the rich gang , who can afford to protest and not work don't solution tangible /deliverable results , they just protest , fuel and car companies have spent millions in research and change of technologies, so yes they have done more .. probably before she was born

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I am absolutely suggesting that. Yes.

I'd hazard a guess that they spend infinitely more on lobbying than they do on anything green related.

It's not in their best interests to spend money on things that make their product obsolete.

If you'd like to prove me wrong by presenting "tangible" evidence of what this particular gentleman has done as boss of a fossil fuel company, then I'd love to see it.

After all, every day is a school day, isn't it?

Another question, sorry.

Why is it mainly middle aged men on the internet who have such a lasting fascination with Greta Thunberg?

It's a little bit creepy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tito Fuente

Another question, sorry.

Why is it mainly middle aged men on the internet who have such a lasting fascination with Greta Thunberg?

It's a little bit creepy.

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I'm 37 and I'm not bothered that she's protesting against this and that, but I think people have a point when they say she's being used etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

I'm 37 and I'm not bothered that she's protesting against this and that, but I think people have a point when they say she's being used etc.

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There's a lot more of an element of personal comments aimed at her than claims of her being "used" by others - in my experience anyway.

Take 3 of Life on Mars' posts today as a tiny sample size of what is said on a grander scale.

I think it's weird.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tito Fuente

There's a lot more of an element of personal comments aimed at her than claims of her being "used" by others - in my experience anyway.

Take 3 of Life on Mars' posts today as a tiny sample size of what is said on a grander scale.

I think it's weird.

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It's definitely weird.

But I also agree she's a puppet.

They're taking advantage of her determination and desire to do good in the world.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

It's definitely weird.

But I also agree she's a puppet.

They're taking advantage of her determination and desire to do good in the world.

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Fair enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tito Fuente

Another question, sorry.

Why is it mainly middle aged men on the internet who have such a lasting fascination with Greta Thunberg?

It's a little bit creepy.

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I'd shag her if she wanted. Nothing creepy.

Considering that you will not be able to buy any poisoning fume cars relatively soon - get with it Dino's - EV cars are great - Tesla's even better :wave:

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Originally Posted by Alan Lung

I'd shag her if she wanted. Nothing creepy.

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Apart from the fact she still looks about 12.

I know her age. She looks young.

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Originally Posted by Alan Lung

I'd shag her if she wanted. Nothing creepy.

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How very edgy of you :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Tito Fuente

How very edgy of you :thumbup:

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Just trying to offer my support to a young lady.

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Originally Posted by Alan Lung

Just trying to offer my support to a young lady.

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Congratulations. Nobody is impressed by your edginess though.

Have you tried an Andrew Tate group?

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Originally Posted by Tito Fuente

Congratulations. Nobody is impressed by your edginess though.

Have you tried an Andrew Tate group?

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Yes, they didn't want me.

From FT.

myFT
Germany slams the brakes on the EU’s engine ban
The clean energy transition requires painful trade-offs.

An electric Porsche on the production line in Stuttgart, Germany. The country’s politicians must prioritise green technologies and find ways to address the resulting pressures © Krisztian Bocsi/Bloomberg
Germany slams the brakes on the EU’s engine ban on twitter (opens in a new window)
Germany slams the brakes on the EU’s engine ban on facebook (opens in a new window)

Germany slams the brakes on the EU’s engine ban on what
Talk about a legislative car crash. Ambitious plans by the EU to ban the sale of new vehicles powered by internal combustion engines by 2035 have been thwarted after last-minute opposition by Germany, the powerhouse of Europe’s car industry. What was meant to be a simple rubber-stamping by ministers this week of measures agreed last year by member states and recently approved by the European parliament has instead been indefinitely postponed. Not only does Germany set a terrible example to other countries tempted to hold legislation hostage to national interests, it also threatens the credibility of Berlin on the green transition, and that of the EU. The bloc’s proposed ban is a key component of its target to reach carbon neutrality by 2050. That journey has now hit a roadblock.

The dangers of a changing climate require a global shift from fossil fuels to cleaner alternatives at a scale and pace never attempted before. It is necessary to remove one of the biggest contributors to the climate emergency. There will be painful trade-offs, including job losses in polluting industries. In the auto industry’s case, the figures are stark: scrapping internal combustion engines in favour of electric vehicles could lead to 40 per cent fewer workers, reckons the chief executive of Ford, which has just cut 3,800 jobs across Europe. Given that Germany’s traditional car manufacturing industry makes up a fifth of the country’s industrial revenues, it is easy to understand why its politicians may be keen, particularly in a cost of living crisis, to preserve jobs in one of the country’s most totemic industries.

Without Berlin’s backing, the combustion-engine ban will not pass. Italy, home to the Ferrari, is supporting Germany. Poland has already stated its opposition to the law, while Bulgaria has said it will abstain. Germany is insisting that the European Commission includes an exemption for cars using so-called e-fuels, synthetic fuels made from hydrogen and carbon dioxide. E-fuels can be used by regular engines, which could mean a lifeline for traditional manufacturers. But e-fuels are far from being the panacea they are sometimes presented as: they are expensive, inefficient and emit as much nitrogen dioxide as burning fossil fuels would, even if they are technically climate neutral.

Neither are manufacturers particularly pushing e-fuels, beyond Bosch, the German engine supplier considered a laggard on battery manufacturing. Porsche wants to continue using engines for its 911 model, and Ferrari has said it is considering — although is yet to commit to — using e-fuels. But other German and Italian carmakers, including Volkswagen, Fiat and Mercedes-Benz, have bet on EVs for the future and have set dates for the phaseout of traditional engine manufacturing.

Climate Capital

Where climate change meets business, markets and politics. Explore the FT’s coverage here.

Are you curious about the FT’s environmental sustainability commitments? Find out more about our science-based targets here

Infighting among Germany’s ruling three-party coalition goes some way to explaining how the current impasse has been reached. From both a productivity and a climate perspective, the country’s politicians have to prioritise clean energy and find ways to address the resulting pressures. But the debacle over engines highlights that while the EU is among the world’s leaders in setting clean-energy targets, those now need to be matched with concrete action to meet them and to attenuate the collateral damage of doing so. Brussels must also consider how meaningful targets are if they are not enforced: France missed its renewable energy target from 2020, the only state to do so, and the commission is yet to decide whether and how to place sanctions on it. Transitioning to carbon neutrality by 2050 will be fiendishly difficult. But given that member states agreed to targets, it is now incumbent upon them to do all they can to meet them.

( And in my opinion the other thing bugging Europe /USA is Chinas ability in the Electric Battery world )

​

https://apple.news/AZMsaidNCS4-pUu4Wvc0TDA

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2351347.html

There are so many side issues and costs associated. I’ve been working with the German big 3, since 2018 on this project and the issues continue to mount. It’s not just batteries, it’s the vehicle management system, thermal management, weight management etc. This means fluid cooling systems, replacing aluminium with magnesium. More information systems means more heat, more power consumption, added software development. A single component we supply is 4x the cost for the EV version compared to the fossil fuel version. The next generation of vehicles from the big 3 covers the period 2025-2032, beyond that is a massive challenge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BLUETIT

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2351347.html

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in the lead-up to the Cop26 climate conference Volvo revealed alarming figures that greenhouse gas emissions in the production of an electric car were 70 per cent higher than in the manufacturing of a petrol one due to the resource-sapping lithium ion batteries.

The big 3, presented a white paper to the German government on this very subject in 2019, demonstrating the huge negatives of mining, use of rare materials, manufacturing emissions etc. As the report says,the focus is on what comes out of the exhaust, not the overall impact.

Volvo says emissions from making EVs can be 70% higher than petrol models - and claims it can take up to 9 YEARS of driving before they become greener


https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...tter_share-top

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

Volvo says emissions from making EVs can be 70% higher than petrol models - and claims it can take up to 9 YEARS of driving before they become greener


https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...tter_share-top

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yes that isn't new information- most cars are driven for more than 9 years though so it's worth it in the long rut

Call for electric cars to be excluded from UK car parks

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2352086.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rjk

yes that isn't new information- most cars are driven for more than 9 years though so it's worth it in the long rut

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Do you think so when the battery life is not expected to exceed 9 years on a vehicle?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

Do you think so when the battery life is not expected to exceed 9 years on a vehicle?

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yes if is

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BLUETIT

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2351347.html

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https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ctric-vehicles

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rjk

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ctric-vehicles

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There’s more than 2 sides to every story, this version is littered with 8 letter words trying to impress, I’ll stick with the “no thank you” to electric cars thank you

I see Diesel is only £1.43 a litre by me and just 2p more than unleaded @£1.41
That’s the garage on Clarence Bridge
They’re cheaper than Morrisons

My neighbour just bought a 23 plate Tesla for £53.000 then had a moan about the cost of installing a charging point in his house and the cost of charging it overnight

I’m keeping my diesel Tone 😳👍

My 3 year PCP deal is up soon and i was out last weekend looking at cars, having gone back to Petrol from diesel 6 years ago, my next and final car will be a diesel and automatic shift change.

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Originally Posted by Sunnysideup

I see Diesel is only £1.43 a litre by me and just 2p more than unleaded @£1.41
That’s the garage on Clarence Bridge
They’re cheaper than Morrisons

My neighbour just bought a 23 plate Tesla for £53.000 then had a moan about the cost of installing a charging point in his house and the cost of charging it overnight

I’m keeping my diesel Tone 😳👍

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53 quid isn't bad for an EV to be fair.