Elon Musk calling out labour

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Originally Posted by Rjk

the minerals reason might make sense if there's enough of it there, the trade one is bollocks, Greenland has a population of 50odd thousand, it would be like the USA being desperate to do more trade with Merthyr Tydfil.

the security thing makes some sense as it would give them control over the north Atlantic, but do we really expect anyone to try to attack them from there?

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Greenland is part of NATO through Denmark, so the US already has full military access. If they can't bully Greenland into joining, the US would have to leave NATO first (not impossible) and then would take on all of the costs of running Greenland. But its already got what it needs in terms of military so doesn't seem much benefit.

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Originally Posted by Canton Kev

Any thoughts on his multiple recent tweets about the king dissolving the government, America invading and “liberating” us and promoting armed insurrections in several of the USA’s closest allies as a good thing?

Tweets that have been seen and received positively by millions of people.

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Yeah, they are all bollocks. Or do you think we will be invaded soon?

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Originally Posted by lardy

Greenland is part of NATO through Denmark, so the US already has full military access. If they can't bully Greenland into joining, the US would have to leave NATO first (not impossible) and then would take on all of the costs of running Greenland. But its already got what it needs in terms of military so doesn't seem much benefit.

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Is it directly in between USA and Russia as the crow flies? Or as missiles might fly? I reckon it’s for them to plunder all its natural resources

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Originally Posted by goats

Is it directly in between USA and Russia as the crow flies? Or as missiles might fly? I reckon it’s for them to plunder all its natural resources

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Well first of all, forget how you are accustomed to seeing the world as depicted on the Mercator projection.
Go onto Google Earth to answer your question and view the area taking in the polar region.

Oh, and when you do go back to looking at the world on the Mercator projection do bear in mind that the shortest distance between two points on the Earth (aka a Great Circle route) will be depicted as a curved line on the map. It's a foible of the projection concerned - and all map projections have their own distortions.

This is why the shortest flight from London to New York would actually involve flying over the south of Greenland.

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Originally Posted by goats

Is it directly in between USA and Russia as the crow flies? Or as missiles might fly? I reckon it’s for them to plunder all its natural resources

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perhaps they're planning for Global warming, when the southern states are inhabitable and all the ice has melted in Greenland it'll be prime real estate

So, who’s got this right, this guy or Musk?

https://youtu.be/AHntVVOQRGY?si=ko5f3Z1YIAALLl3h

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Originally Posted by Rjk

perhaps they're planning for Global warming, when the southern states are inhabitable and all the ice has melted in Greenland it'll be prime real estate

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I've had various podcasts on over the day, the minerals options seems to be the most believable. In getting ownership over them before Chyna.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

So, who’s got this right, this guy or Musk?

https://youtu.be/AHntVVOQRGY?si=ko5f3Z1YIAALLl3h

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Thanks for posting this Bob. Musk, the far right, right wing MP’s and the media in this country should hang their heads in shame.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

perhaps they're planning for Global warming, when the southern states are inhabitable and all the ice has melted in Greenland it'll be prime real estate

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There is more chance of global cooling as the ice at the poles is increasing.

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

There is more chance of global cooling as the ice at the poles is increasing.

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That is not fact.
The North is decreasing the South a slight increase.

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Originally Posted by ninian opinian

Thanks for posting this Bob. Musk, the far right, right wing MP’s and the media in this country should hang their heads in shame.

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Far-right? Laughable.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Far-right? Laughable.

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Are you claiming that there is no such thing?

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

Are you claiming that there is no such thing?

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Erm, not really in the context of this story, no, and more generally no where near as much as it lives in some of your heads.

This is a story about the mass rape of children, many due to the race and class and potential cover ups that allowed it to go on for years. It wasn't the far-right doing it, even if you wish it was. Seeing some of you get furious over the people who didn't do this as opposed to those who did is pretty frustrating to be honest.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Erm, not really in the context of this story, no, and more generally no where near as much as it lives in some of your heads.

This is a story about the mass rape of children, many due to the race and class and potential cover ups that allowed it to go on for years. It wasn't the far-right doing it, even if you wish it was. Seeing some of you get furious over the people who didn't do this as opposed to those who did is pretty frustrating to be honest.

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I tell you what’s frustrating is you and your ilk using the young girls who were terribly let down by the system to score political points. Labour meanwhile are getting on with bringing in the laws to help protect young people.

Musk the far right fruit loop and you hero is a danger to us all.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Erm, not really in the context of this story, no, and more generally no where near as much as it lives in some of your heads.

This is a story about the mass rape of children, many due to the race and class and potential cover ups that allowed it to go on for years. It wasn't the far-right doing it, even if you wish it was. Seeing some of you get furious over the people who didn't do this as opposed to those who did is pretty frustrating to be honest.

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Did you watch the podcast I posted? Whatever you call them, the journalist interviewed, rightly, said that there are politicians in this country and South African born.ignoramus' from America using this story for political purposes currently and a common thread is that they all fall into the category right wing. He also called out those on the left who, to some extent, enabled the scandal because they did not want to be called racist.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Did you watch the podcast I posted? Whatever you call them, the journalist interviewed, rightly, said that there are politicians in this country and South African born.ignoramus' from America using this story for political purposes currently and a common thread is that they all fall into the category right wing. He also called out those on the left who, to some extent, enabled the scandal because they did not want to be called racist.

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Yep musk and other doughy dog whistling American right wing talking heads/grifters have literally no knowledge of the UK, it's systems and even less interest in the plight of rape victims in the UK.

Both musk and Kirk have described Starmer as 'far left' in the last week, does anybody in here want to agree with that? They don't have a clue what they are talking about and should be ignored but it's hard to because they have so many mindless drones hanging on their every word.

The Tories should be thoroughly condemned for the wrecking amendment the other day but I don't think even the average person in the UK has enough knowledge of the political process to understand the potential affects of that.

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Not sure of the accuracy, but I was reading something yesterday about Musk's father effectively grooming his step daughter.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Far-right? Laughable.

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Are you suggesting Tommy Robinson isn't far-right?

Most of the great problems we face are caused by politicians creating solutions to problems they created in the first place."

Governments create most of our problems

They pretend to solve them but rarely do.

Believe in yourself instead of politicians

Walter E. Williams

Musk thinks the IRA are Ireland's army. The guy is a weapons grade moron who is a walking contradiction.

Ps his dad shagged his step daughter, so if he wants to start talking about grooming, he should look closer to home.

The point here is that you are all obsessing over the far-right and why?

This is a story about the rape of potentially thousands of girls, frequently based on their race and class. Added to that is a great number of questions as to whether these horrific crimes (which we all absolutely agree were horrific) were allowed to go on for longer than they should because of a political culture that didn't want to investigate fully for fear of being labeled racist or other racial sensitivities.

It is not a story about the far-right. The far-right, the right, the centre, the left and far-left will ALWAYS exploit crisis for their own end. That, unfortunately, is politics. Labour exploited Grenfell and police rape scandals. The Tories exploit this. The Workers Party of Britain successfully exploited the war in Gaza for political gain in the last election. Reform exploit migrant crime etc etc.

Political exploitation is a story, but THE story is why this happened. Dancing around the edges, scouring the internet to find videos where people are talking about the far-right is in all honesty and example of the kind of culture that allowed this absolute filth to go on for so long and potentially still is going on.

Imagine for a moment that gangs of far-right people were targeting little Asian girls, grooming, taping and torturing them and that the authorities potentially turned a blind eye to some extent to indirectly allow it to continue for a while.

Imagine then that people rightly were outraged but some right-wingers instead turned their anger on the left for trying to "exploit the situation" politically (by talking about inquiries etc..hardly unheard of) instead of addressing the real issue at hand. Imagine that, and what you would think of those people. You would think they were absolute dickheads.

In fairness, the threads title isn't particularly helpful in discussing the wider topic but honestly, I find it utterly unfathomable that on this story some people still can't bring them selves to do much other than talk about the far-right. Frankly, it's shameful. No one on here has anything but contempt for these crimes but some are absolutely twisting it to make their own wider points, including some who profress to oppose others doing that very same thing

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Are you suggesting Tommy Robinson isn't far-right?

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No I would be content labelling him far-right. He would argue he is critical of extreme Islam and isn't far-right, and he probably has a point in that respect but in the current context and understanding of things I would say he fits within the far-right European context.

That's not the point I was making however.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

Not sure of the accuracy, but I was reading something yesterday about Musk's father effectively grooming his step daughter.

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Absolutely true but I think Elon hates his dad though so hard to beat him with that stick.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

The point here is that you are all obsessing over the far-right and why?

This is a story about the rape of potentially thousands of girls, frequently based on their race and class. Added to that is a great number of questions as to whether these horrific crimes (which we all absolutely agree were horrific) were allowed to go on for longer than they should because of a political culture that didn't want to investigate fully for fear of being labeled racist or other racial sensitivities.

It is not a story about the far-right. The far-right, the right, the centre, the left and far-left will ALWAYS exploit crisis for their own end. That, unfortunately, is politics. Labour exploited Grenfell and police rape scandals. The Tories exploit this. The Workers Party of Britain successfully exploited the war in Gaza for political gain in the last election. Reform exploit migrant crime etc etc.

Political exploitation is a story, but THE story is why this happened. Dancing around the edges, scouring the internet to find videos where people are talking about the far-right is in all honesty and example of the kind of culture that allowed this absolute filth to go on for so long and potentially still is going on.

Imagine for a moment that gangs of far-right people were targeting little Asian girls, grooming, taping and torturing them and that the authorities potentially turned a blind eye to some extent to indirectly allow it to continue for a while.

Imagine then that people rightly were outraged but some right-wingers instead turned their anger on the left for trying to "exploit the situation" politically (by talking about inquiries etc..hardly unheard of) instead of addressing the real issue at hand. Imagine that, and what you would think of those people. You would think they were absolute dickheads.

In fairness, the threads title isn't particularly helpful in discussing the wider topic but honestly, I find it utterly unfathomable that on this story some people still can't bring them selves to do much other than talk about the far-right. Frankly, it's shameful. No one on here has anything but contempt for these crimes but some are absolutely twisting it to make their own wider points, including some who profress to oppose others doing that very same thing

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And you are now just using it to get on your high horse. This is a thread about exactly what the title says it is, so people are commenting on that.

You have written a lot of words but I am still not sure what you want to happen. Almost nobody commenting on this will have had enough interest in the topic to actually read the inquiries or even have knowledge of the recommendations made, myself included.

I guess it depends how objective people want to be. There is a report based on a 7 year enquiry into CSE that made recommendations, most of which haven't been enacted yet. Whether the report goes far enough or is specific enough is another debate but don't kid yourself that Elon is raising an issue to the benefit of the British public, society or the victims. The amendment would have killed the bill, some progress is better than no progress.

Kemi seemed to think that we needed a new inquiry because 'its still going on', yes no shit because you haven't actually enacted the recommendations of the last enquiry.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

No I would be content labelling him far-right. He would argue he is critical of extreme Islam and isn't far-right, and he probably has a point in that respect but in the current context and understanding of things I would say he fits within the far-right European context.

That's not the point I was making however.

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The journalist in that excellent podcast made reference to far-right activists such as Nick Griffin and Tommy Robinson using this particular issue for their own ends.

Ninian Opinion posted: "Thanks for posting this Bob. Musk, the far right, right wing MP’s and the media in this country should hang their heads in shame."

You replied to that post by saying: "Far-right? Laughable."

That's a very odd response.

In terms of parliamentary process. This is the amendment text. It clearly wasn't a reasonable attempt to propose a further enquiry, that was really just a footnote.

https://x.com/RichardBurgon/status/1877301392466985353

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

And you are now just using it to get on your high horse. This is a thread about exactly what the title says it is, so people are commenting on that.

You have written a lot of words but I am still not sure what you want to happen. Almost nobody commenting on this will have had enough interest in the topic to actually read the inquiries or even have knowledge of the recommendations made, myself included.

I guess it depends how objective people want to be. There is a report based on a 7 year enquiry into CSE that made recommendations, most of which haven't been enacted yet. Whether the report goes far enough or is specific enough is another debate but don't kid yourself that Elon is raising an issue to the benefit of the British public, society or the victims. The amendment would have killed the bill, some progress is better than no progress.

Kemi seemed to think that we needed a new inquiry because 'its still going on', yes no shit because you haven't actually enacted the recommendations of the last enquiry.

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God knows why you think focusing on understanding why the rapes happened is a high horse but spending your time sounding off about the far-right allegedly exploiting the issue isn't, but there we go.

There was no chance of the bill being killed given Labours majority by the way. Ironically even the suggestions and the moral blackmail that came with it is itself an example of the political exploitation of issues being endemic, which as I gave examples of earlier cuts across the system

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

The journalist in that excellent podcast made reference to far-right activists such as Nick Griffin and Tommy Robinson using this particular issue for their own ends.

Ninian Opinion posted: "Thanks for posting this Bob. Musk, the far right, right wing MP’s and the media in this country should hang their heads in shame."

You replied to that post by saying: "Far-right? Laughable."

That's a very odd response.

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I can see why the response was confusing, apologies

The ridiculous nature of it is borne from a frustration of people being more interested in the far-$right supposedly exploiting a political situation than the reasons for it all happening in the first place - but as I acknowledged, the thread title did on part lead us to this less useful discussion.

Talking of Nick Griffin. Ignore the pointless toad. He has no political party. The one he did lead didn't stand in the last election and got less than a 1000 votes across the UK in 2019. This is what I mean by people's obsession with a growing far-right. Im not even sure its true.

If Tommy Robinson wants to call for an inquiry from his prison cell, so be it. He just agrees with three quarters of the country on that;

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...y-yougov-poll/

We don't need to keep giving these guys oxygen. Nick Griffin in particular is no more relevant than Robert Griffiths (Cardiff bou btw, anyone know if he is a city fan?) of the Communist Party. We don't routinely ask him what he thinks on things.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

God knows why you think focusing on understanding why the rapes happened is a high horse but spending your time sounding off about the far-right allegedly exploiting the issue isn't, but there we go.

There was no chance of the bill being killed given Labours majority by the way. Ironically even the suggestions and the moral blackmail that came with it is itself an example of the political exploitation of issues being endemic, which as I gave examples of earlier cuts across the system

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Where in this thread have you been 'focussing on understanding why the rapes happened'? Whatever that means anyway, there are going to be different reasons in different areas, that is why local inquiries are equally important.

What do you want a new inquiry to focus on? Why don't you think the existing inquiry goes far enough? Why don't you think the recommendations won't work to protect children from more organised multi-offender groups?

Not a single Reform MP decided to attend yesterday’s commons debate on tackling violence against women and girls.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/common...tWomenAndGirls

Ctrl+F “Reform” in the debate transcript and you’ll see several MPs mentioning their absence.

Was Nigel too busy hard at work in Clacton? Has he even set foot in Clacton since the election?

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Originally Posted by Canton Kev

Not a single Reform MP decided to attend yesterday’s commons debate on tackling violence against women and girls.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/common...tWomenAndGirls

Ctrl+F “Reform” in the debate transcript and you’ll see several MPs mentioning their absence.

Was Nigel too busy hard at work in Clacton? Has he even set foot in Clacton since the election?

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And now a dozen Reform UK councillors to resign over Farage’s leadership. This comes following Musk’s tweet that Farage was not up to the job.

The councillors alleged the party was being run in an “autocratic manner” and accused Farage of “disloyalty” to long-term members. There are splits within the party over the jailed far-right activist Tommy Robinson, who is supported by Musk.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...age-leadership

Ha ha ha.

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

Where in this thread have you been 'focussing on understanding why the rapes happened'? Whatever that means anyway, there are going to be different reasons in different areas, that is why local inquiries are equally important.

What do you want a new inquiry to focus on? Why don't you think the existing inquiry goes far enough? Why don't you think the recommendations won't work to protect children from more organised multi-offender groups?

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In fairness I did say several times that I think there is a far more substantial issue to be discussed here rather than the one happening.

Nonetheless, good questions!

I think a new inquiry may be useful on pulling together previous ones and piercing together whether there was an overarching culture within the authorities not to intervene earlier and why. Why were peoples concerns dismissed etc. my understanding is that previous reports have focused on individual authorities and the most coordinated looked at 6, whereas such gangs have been reported in at least quadruple that number of authorities.

We need to know the extent that these decisions existed and why. We need to understand why people thought they could get away with it and why they did for so long. We also need to know and hold to account any decision makers who haven't probably been scrutinized. They were talking about it on Times Radio this morning about how some of the people who completely let people down are still working in positions of power in youth protection.

I suspect the recommendations will make a difference. But that doesn't mean there cannot be an overarching inquiry into what may well be Britain's shame of the century. The extent of all this really is unfathomable and if something within our culture allowed this to happen we need to fully understand it. Sunlight is the best antiseptic and all that.

BBC had a story on their front page (for a few hours at least) about survivors criticing the dismissal of an inquiry

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c93qplwpll2o

The characterisation of all this as something from the far-right seems increasingly obscene

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

BBC had a story on their front page (for a few hours at least) about survivors criticing the dismissal of an inquiry

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c93qplwpll2o

The characterisation of all this as something from the far-right seems increasingly obscene

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Some survivors do want a new national enquiry. Others - including the main survivor groups - do not as they (for now) see it as an obstacle to enacting the recommendations made by the previous national enquiry. That may change - there seems to be a move across the political spectrum, and amongst a growing number of victims, for a new targeted enquiry specifically about senior council officers and police cover ups. Some of that has come out in local enquiries but it has not been consistent and there may be gaps.

Andy Burnham coming out in favour of a new national enquiry has made it much more difficult for Starmer to hold the current line. There is also a growing view that the existing recommendations (sat on by the Tories) can be actioned in parallel.

But this is a story that has been hijacked, distorted, and weaponised by people who don't give a toss about the victims. The Tories did nothing when in power for 14 years. Tommy Robinson and his far right fans (yes they are) see it as a way to promote a racist ideology, and Elon Musk is busy destabilising any governments that might restrict his power and wealth. That is obscene.

Starmer has got this wrong in my opinion - but his position is more defensible than many of his critics.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Some survivors do want a new national enquiry. Others - including the main survivor groups - do not as they (for now) see it as an obstacle to enacting the recommendations made by the previous national enquiry. That may change - there seems to be a move across the political spectrum, and amongst a growing number of victims, for a new targeted enquiry specifically about senior council officers and police cover ups. Some of that has come out in local enquiries but it has not been consistent and there may be gaps.

Andy Burnham coming out in favour of a new national enquiry has made it much more difficult for Starmer to hold the current line. There is also a growing view that the existing recommendations (sat on by the Tories) can be actioned in parallel.

But this is a story that has been hijacked, distorted, and weaponised by people who don't give a toss about the victims. The Tories did nothing when in power for 14 years. Tommy Robinson and his far right fans (yes they are) see it as a way to promote a racist ideology, and Elon Musk is busy destabilising any governments that might restrict his power and wealth. That is obscene.

Starmer has got this wrong in my opinion - but his position is more defensible than many of his critics.

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There is a racist element to this story for sure Jon, but I would say it's more about those girls that were raped because of their race wouldn't you? Is that not the bigger story? Why don't we get to grips with why that happened and discuss those issues more?

Are others not hijacking this to talk about the far- right when in fact that is a very small part of this story? It's an issue about exploiting the story for political gain (which as referenced always gets done, sadly) but the far far bigger story is what actually happened, no? Would you think it normal if I were more angry at the Workers Party of Britain to exploit the war in Gaza for political gain, or to be more angry at the war itself?

I agree that Burnhams intervention changes things. Perhaps now people will stop labelling talk of inquiries as being "far-right" as unbelievably happened this week.

Already Starmers comments on this sound extraordinary to me. Ironically that he and others were so quick to jump to that stance kinda highlights the need for one even more as you wonder if many cases were dismissed or ignored by councils because they labelled the accusations themselves as far-right?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-b1203246.html