FT: CARDIFF CITY 1 - 1 SHEFFIELD WEDNESDAY. Match thread

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Originally Posted by LA Bluebird

Doesn't help when we put five in the six yard box including two on the keeper, Ng and others doing their shithouse routine to delay the take and then after all that give a free kick away every time. What the hell was that all about.

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Exactly. A pointless waste of time. So ridiculous because the ref is going to give a free kick 99 times of 100 regardless if there is a foul. Brainless crap from brainless coaches.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

The subs made a difference and we were out managed. It really is that simple. Riza is so out of his depth it's embarrassing. The board should be ashamed - they've caused this.

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I don't see it that way.

if we had played like Wednesday did and them us would anyone be on here saying "well done Riza you out managed the opposition there".
no people would be furious at how shit we were with only 2 shots on target all game and managed to scrape a draw from our only corner.

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Originally Posted by SuisseBluebird

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...-city-31310551

According to Riza that entire second half performance was down to the team and the team alone, not one hint that he was at all at fault for Cardiff falling away after what was a solid first half showing.

He was out coached, failed to react adequately to the changes made by Wednesday and his first round of subs Turnbull and El Ghazi were well wide of the mark of what the team needed at the time.

Riza, his staff and the team just cannot collectively put it together for a full 90. And that is on all of them, and it's about time he stood up to be counted.

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I'm no fan of riza, but i do have some sympathy with him when it comes down to player mentality, i've been banging on about how weak this squad is mentally for a while. I don't rate Riza as a tactician, but players have to adapt when they're out there, they can see things building, they can sense danger, they can manage themselves for periods in a game, they just have to ride certain passages in a game, that's what good or even average players can do, not this lot though, piss weak, characterless, roll over merchants. I'm not saying you think this, but i believe that there's way too much emphasis put on the effectiveness of a coach or manager stood in the technical area. They can make changes, but we've see this lot for the best part of two seasons, and they let themselves down time after time. Like you say, it is on Riza and his staff, but it's also on the players (not that you were saying differently) They're weak minded, and when the inevitable goal goes in from the opposition they generally wilt.

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Originally Posted by Dave Blue

Exactly. A pointless waste of time. So ridiculous because the ref is going to give a free kick 99 times of 100 regardless if there is a foul. Brainless crap from brainless coaches.

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Trouble is there usually is a foul by a City player and the ref gets the decision right - as you say, what are the coaches playing at?

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

I'm no fan of riza, but i do have some sympathy with him when it comes down to player mentality, i've been banging on about how weak this squad is mentally for a while. I don't rate Riza as a tactician, but players have to adapt when they're out there, they can see things building, they can sense danger, they can manage themselves for periods in a game, they just have to ride certain passages in a game, that's what good or even average players can do, not this lot though, piss weak, characterless, roll over merchants. I'm not saying you think this, but i believe that there's way too much emphasis put on the effectiveness of a coach or manager stood in the technical area. They can make changes, but we've see this lot for the best part of two seasons, and they let themselves down time after time. Like you say, it is on Riza and his staff, but it's also on the players (not that you were saying differently) They're weak minded, and when the inevitable goal goes in from the opposition they generally wilt.

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Well done Tuerto, glad someone has taken the time to write something like that. I’ve just finished writing my blog and I’ve been critical of Riza in it because I believe he made errors today, but, as you say, sometimes there’s too much emphasis placed on managers - too many of this season’s squad have been failing to take responsibility for things happening on the field for months now

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Well done Tuerto, glad someone has taken the time to write something like that. I’ve just finished writing my blog and I’ve been critical of Riza in it because I believe he made errors today, but, as you say, sometimes there’s too much emphasis placed on managers - too many of this season’s squad have been failing to take responsibility for things happening on the field for months now

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That’s true to a degree and I understand and agree with much of what you are both saying, but at the end of the day it is a manager’s responsibility to create an environment and a mindset whereby the players do take more responsibility.

I firmly believe that the squad City fielded today is more naturally talented than the squad Sheffield Wednesday had available to them. I also firmly believe that Sheffield Wednesday’s manager is significantly superior to Cardiff City’s.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

That’s true to a degree and I understand and agree with much of what you are both saying, but at the end of the day it is a manager’s responsibility to create an environment and a mindset whereby the players do take more responsibility.

I firmly believe that the squad City fielded today is more naturally talented than the squad Sheffield Wednesday had available to them. I also firmly believe that Sheffield Wednesday’s manager is significantly superior to Cardiff City’s.

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That's true, but this lot are so weak, they look lost for passages during games, they get desperate, and not one of them takes control, not one of them is dishing it out when needed, there's not one of them where we could say that he rarely lets us down, even when that player has a shit game. Maybe it's just footballers changing and i'm just getting old, the days of strong characters has long gone, and maybe it's like that with all clubs now, i don't watch enough football to make that comparison. What i am sure of though is that this lot are easy to play against, alright when the sun is shining and the opposition allow us to play, but we lack bite when we're in the shit, and we fold regularly.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

That's true, but this lot are so weak, they look lost for passages during games, they get desperate, and not one of them takes control, not one of them is dishing it out when needed, there's not one of them where we could say that he rarely lets us down, even when that player has a shit game. Maybe it's just footballers changing and i'm just getting old, the days of strong characters has long gone, and maybe it's like that with all clubs now, i don't watch enough football to make that comparison. What i am sure of though is that this lot are easy to play against, alright when the sun is shining and the opposition allow us to play, but we lack bite when we're in the shit, and we fold regularly.

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The last time we won 2-1 away (Watford) we went on an 8 game unbeaten run. I'm just trying to keep myself positive by hoping lightening strikes twice.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

That's true, but this lot are so weak, they look lost for passages during games, they get desperate, and not one of them takes control, not one of them is dishing it out when needed, there's not one of them where we could say that he rarely lets us down, even when that player has a shit game. Maybe it's just footballers changing and i'm just getting old, the days of strong characters has long gone, and maybe it's like that with all clubs now, i don't watch enough football to make that comparison. What i am sure of though is that this lot are easy to play against, alright when the sun is shining and the opposition allow us to play, but we lack bite when we're in the shit, and we fold regularly.

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In the first half I reckon we won more than half of all 50-50s. In the second half, there were several occasions where they seemed to get to each ball first many times in succession. That's all about desire. We didn't seem to come out with the same desire in the second half.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

That's true, but this lot are so weak, they look lost for passages during games, they get desperate, and not one of them takes control, not one of them is dishing it out when needed, there's not one of them where we could say that he rarely lets us down, even when that player has a shit game. Maybe it's just footballers changing and i'm just getting old, the days of strong characters has long gone, and maybe it's like that with all clubs now, i don't watch enough football to make that comparison. What i am sure of though is that this lot are easy to play against, alright when the sun is shining and the opposition allow us to play, but we lack bite when we're in the shit, and we fold regularly.

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I agree with you and TLG to an extent but let's be honest here both the players and the coaching staff/manager didn't have the bollocks or/and brains to work out City were getting absolutely shagged up the arsse in midfield in the second half.

From my view, the players nor the staff recognised the shagging they were having. You'd have thought if they had one of the players on the pitch would've been a bit more robust in *cough* challenging for the ball?

I'm not going to rant about Riza, he's fuucking delusional or did acid if he thinks he's not culpable?

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

I agree with you and TLG to an extent but let's be honest here both the players and the coaching staff/manager didn't have the bollocks or/and brains to work out City were getting absolutely shagged up the arsse in midfield in the second half.

From my view, the players nor the staff recognised the shagging they were having. You'd have thought if they had one of the players on the pitch would've been a bit more robust in *cough* challenging for the ball?

I'm not going to rant about Riza, he's fuucking delusional or did acid if he thinks he's not culpable?

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The biggest mistake Riza is making is not owning it, even if he genuinely believed that it had nothing to do with him, he still has to take responsibility for the 2nd half performance, that's his job, he's the last one to leave the sinking ship. It tells us a bit about his character, and he has to be careful, precious footballers don't like being criticised.

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

I agree with you and TLG to an extent but let's be honest here both the players and the coaching staff/manager didn't have the bollocks or/and brains to work out City were getting absolutely shagged up the arsse in midfield in the second half.

From my view, the players nor the staff recognised the shagging they were having. You'd have thought if they had one of the players on the pitch would've been a bit more robust in *cough* challenging for the ball?

I'm not going to rant about Riza, he's fuucking delusional or did acid if he thinks he's not culpable?

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Riza is just like the players, they're miles off it. Someone is going to have to stand up and be counted if we're to survive

The truth is if we'd defended the corner from which they scored with even a basic level of professionalism we probably would have won.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

The biggest mistake Riza is making is not owning it, even if he genuinely believed that it had nothing to do with him, he still has to take responsibility for the 2nd half performance, that's his job, he's the last one to leave the sinking ship. It tells us a bit about his character, and he has to be careful, precious footballers don't like being criticised.

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100% agree about him "not owning it." He should've either said, it's on him or kept quiet. Throwing the players under the bus may bite him on the aarse as you pointed out they appear to be a little bit precious these days?

I think Riza has had them on side, it'll be interesting to see how they react?

I wonder though if any of them question Riza's tactical knowledge?

Watch this space! Riza won't be out manager next season

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

100% agree about him "not owning it." He should've either said, it's on him or kept quiet. Throwing the players under the bus may bite him on the aarse as you pointed out they appear to be a little bit precious these days?

I think Riza has had them on side, it'll be interesting to see how they react?

I wonder though if any of them question Riza's tactical knowledge?

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He looks to me like he's levelled out, i don't know if he has the ability to get any more out of this group of players, i wouldn't say that any of them are improving, the best compliment i could give would be to say that players who may have had something about them have stagnated, none of them are performing to a high standard, there's no real stand out players, and we need a few of them to step up with some big performances, i just can't see it happening, it's like Riza has run out of ideas.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

He looks to me like he's levelled out, i don't know if he has the ability to get any more out of this group of players, i wouldn't say that any of them are improving, the best compliment i could give would be to say that players who may have had something about them have stagnated, none of them are performing to a high standard, there's no real stand out players, and we need a few of them to step up with some big performances, i just can't see it happening, it's like Riza has run out of ideas.

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Were in to high stakes football now: in other words shit or bust! Personally I'd leave it to the youngsters and make a sacrificial offering: Tan would do!

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

Were in to high stakes football now: in other words shit or bust! Personally I'd leave it to the youngsters and make a sacrificial offering: Tan would do!

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Ken Zohore is without a club.........

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Ken Zohore is without a club.........

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Grab him!

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Originally Posted by Rjk

I enjoyed that, despite the result. I thought we looked really good in the first half, and very exciting to watch.

they had a 15-20 minute spell in the second half and then it was more even until the end of the game.
we had like 8 or 9 corners and didn't do much with them, while they scored from their first?
you could tell they would score too, our defenders didn't seem to know how to deal with it.

if we play like that until the end of the season I think we will be ok. massive overreaction on here and other social media

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It looks like you are entirely on your own here :-/

You DO realise that continuing to draw games that we need to win, will probably get us relegated, don’t you?

And that there are only 7 games left.

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

I agree with you and TLG to an extent but let's be honest here both the players and the coaching staff/manager didn't have the bollocks or/and brains to work out City were getting absolutely shagged up the arsse in midfield in the second half.

From my view, the players nor the staff recognised the shagging they were having. You'd have thought if they had one of the players on the pitch would've been a bit more robust in *cough* challenging for the ball?

I'm not going to rant about Riza, he's fuucking delusional or did acid if he thinks he's not culpable?

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And he brings on Turnbull before Robertson……

I can only assume that Robertson wasn’t fully fit as I have’s seen anything to suggest that Turnbull is player who can shore up midfield (because you have to have a bit of pace and be able to tackle to start with)

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Originally Posted by Madassa

The truth is if we'd defended the corner from which they scored with even a basic level of professionalism we probably would have won.

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We had nine corners to their one - given how we defended that one, I dread to think what the score would have been if those figures had been reversed.

Just six years ago we had Morrison, Bamba, Peltier, Gunnar, and Ralls. People say you don’t get leaders among modern day footballers, but that’s not true - they’re still around, there’s not as many of them around now, but we’re living proof that they still exist. As the promotion team broke up, we added Flint and Pack, two more players who were leaders, but who do we have now? I mentioned Ralls, but accept that he’s an arguable one and, anyway, he’s always injured, the same applies with bells on to Ramsey if he qualifies in the first place. The other one I’d mention is Alnwick, who I’ve heard described as a dressing room presence, but, if he does have leadership qualities, he plays in a position where it becomes difficult to beat that influential during a game - there’s no one else I can think of.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

He looks to me like he's levelled out, i don't know if he has the ability to get any more out of this group of players, i wouldn't say that any of them are improving, the best compliment i could give would be to say that players who may have had something about them have stagnated, none of them are performing to a high standard, there's no real stand out players, and we need a few of them to step up with some big performances, i just can't see it happening, it's like Riza has run out of ideas.

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I’d say Bagan has definitely improved under Riza’s management, but the strong suspicion is that he would have done this anyway whoever was in charge.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

He looks to me like he's levelled out, i don't know if he has the ability to get any more out of this group of players, i wouldn't say that any of them are improving, the best compliment i could give would be to say that players who may have had something about them have stagnated, none of them are performing to a high standard, there's no real stand out players, and we need a few of them to step up with some big performances, i just can't see it happening, it's like Riza has run out of ideas.

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As we walked through the concourse yesterday we were talking about the lack of leaders on the pitch, and what we would give for a Sean Morrison, Sol Bamba type player now!

That said within the first 10 minutes of the second half you could see how they had changed and were winning the midfield battle, well almost everyone else in the ground could see it apart from the guy who’s job it is to get the win.

If you’re leading a team or a group of people, the chances are they will follow and support you, unless they don’t buy into your tactics or ideas

Do any of this lot, look at the manager and really believe he’s the guy that has the potential to make them better players?

Do any of them think they are following instructions because this guy is the real deal?

To me it comes down to respect and professionalism, I think a more experienced manager would have got more out of this squad and probably identified there is a weak underbelly in the squad and rectified that with his recruitment

There’s no hiding place now for anyone
Board, coaching staff or players

Collectively they have 7 games to get the points required,

I’m not sure the best way to get everyone on side is for the head coach to come out and publicly distance himself from the result and performance of his team selection and tactics?

How can it be that Cardiff City ends up with two charlatan managers on the trot? In ONE season!?

Actually, scrub that, I think we know why.

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Originally Posted by Crisp White Lines

How can it be that Cardiff City ends up with two charlatan managers on the trot? In ONE season!?

Actually, scrub that, I think we know why.

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And that is all you need to know…..

You can fault Riza for some questionable substitutions yesterday [what the hell does he see in El Lazy], but I doubt Ng would have thrown himself to the ground looking for a free kick, but ended up giving away the corner, with a manager like Warnock in charge.

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

You can fault Riza for some questionable substitutions yesterday [what the hell does he see in El Lazy], but I doubt Ng would have thrown himself to the ground looking for a free kick, but ended up giving away the corner, with a manager like Warnock in charge.

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Ng would do what Ng does regardless of who was in charge. It's how he plays the game. He's a cheat, plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Dandruff

It looks like you are entirely on your own here :-/

You DO realise that continuing to draw games that we need to win, will probably get us relegated, don’t you?

And that there are only 7 games left.

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yes I can see that I'm entirely on my own here, that doesn't bother me in the slightest.

to me it just seems like an air of desperation, that people want to blame everything on the manager if we got anything other than a win because we are in the last chance saloon.

the way I see it we played really well in the first half, and we're very fun to watch.
the start of the second half they were getting on top, and scored from an inventive free kick.
then on about 60 minutes we brought on subs and they weren't dominant any more, we finished the stronger of the 2 sides (albeit not as dominant as the first half)

people criticise the subs, and I can understand that, but it did stop Wednesdays dominance.
so really there was a 15 minute period at the start of the second half where they had got on top- I don't think thats too long to trust your players to work out how to work that out on the pitch before you need to change it yourself.

yes it's a disappointing result, especially given the others around us but we were actually pretty good yesterday.

if we had Wednesday's set piece coaches (I believe it's Purse and Ward in charge of ours?) then it would have probably been a very comfortable win.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Ng would do what Ng does regardless of who was in charge. It's how he plays the game. He's a cheat, plain and simple.

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Agree he is a liability

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

The biggest mistake Riza is making is not owning it, even if he genuinely believed that it had nothing to do with him, he still has to take responsibility for the 2nd half performance, that's his job, he's the last one to leave the sinking ship. It tells us a bit about his character, and he has to be careful, precious footballers don't like being criticised.

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This with bells on - good leaders (not even great ones) always delegate responsibility to the team but never ever lose accountability and that is the problem for riza

However he is simply mirroring the culture of the club in recent years when none of the "leaders" take accountability for their decisions and actions

Riza to me is simply a symptom of the root cause and that is a lack of leadership in the club at all levels - board room managers office and the pitch - as an example dalman turning up at a press conference to unveil bulut and say he has mojo back is not leadership when you are not visible when the proverbial hits the fan and that proverbial is of your own making

How Tan can look at the performance of himself and his so called leaders and not make changes baffles me as this is the root cause - everything else merely symptoms

The comfort I took from yesterday perversely is that the first half performance (especially for the younger home grown players that hopefully will be here next season) gave me hope that league one would be more enjoyable - with a couple of good experienced additions with a bit of leadership that is but then we have the overall management of the club not capable of seeing what is needed

Some anniversary for them to oversee a bit like the shit show that was our last season at ninian

Roll on 2027 and what the feck they ruin it with then

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

You can fault Riza for some questionable substitutions yesterday [what the hell does he see in El Lazy], but I doubt Ng would have thrown himself to the ground looking for a free kick, but ended up giving away the corner, with a manager like Warnock in charge.

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I've made the point elsewhere that that kind of "challenge" often results in a free kick for the defender and Wednesday had one a few minutes before. I don't think either warranted a free kick but if the referee gives one...The thought of Warnock or similar being back in charge does give me the fear though, he was right at the time for us but caused longer term damage after he left.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

yes I can see that I'm entirely on my own here, that doesn't bother me in the slightest.

to me it just seems like an air of desperation, that people want to blame everything on the manager if we got anything other than a win because we are in the last chance saloon.

the way I see it we played really well in the first half, and we're very fun to watch.
the start of the second half they were getting on top, and scored from an inventive free kick.
then on about 60 minutes we brought on subs and they weren't dominant any more, we finished the stronger of the 2 sides (albeit not as dominant as the first half)

people criticise the subs, and I can understand that, but it did stop Wednesdays dominance.
so really there was a 15 minute period at the start of the second half where they had got on top- I don't think thats too long to trust your players to work out how to work that out on the pitch before you need to change it yourself.

yes it's a disappointing result, especially given the others around us but we were actually pretty good yesterday.

if we had Wednesday's set piece coaches (I believe it's Purse and Ward in charge of ours?) then it would have probably been a very comfortable win.

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I doubt we'd be very good at set pieces aerially as we dont have a decent header of the ball in the club, but I agree about the set piece coaching staff as we never look a threat from them.
Re Riza, good managers are proactive, Riza's subs are nearly always reactive

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Originally Posted by Nobody's Rep

This with bells on - good leaders (not even great ones) always delegate responsibility to the team but never ever lose accountability and that is the problem for riza

However he is simply mirroring the culture of the club in recent years when none of the "leaders" take accountability for their decisions and actions

Riza to me is simply a symptom of the root cause and that is a lack of leadership in the club at all levels - board room managers office and the pitch - as an example dalman turning up at a press conference to unveil bulut and say he has mojo back is not leadership when you are not visible when the proverbial hits the fan and that proverbial is of your own making

How Tan can look at the performance of himself and his so called leaders and not make changes baffles me as this is the root cause - everything else merely symptoms

The comfort I took from yesterday perversely is that the first half performance (especially for the younger home grown players that hopefully will be here next season) gave me hope that league one would be more enjoyable - with a couple of good experienced additions with a bit of leadership that is but then we have the overall management of the club not capable of seeing what is needed

Some anniversary for them to oversee a bit like the shit show that was our last season at ninian

Roll on 2027 and what the feck they ruin it with then

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Riza "i take full responsibilty"

Also riza- then proceeds to spend the rest of the interview detailing exactly all the reasons how it isnt his fault.

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Originally Posted by Joe Gillis

I doubt we'd be very good at set pieces aerially as we dont have a decent header of the ball in the club, but I agree about the set piece coaching staff as we never look a threat from them.
Re Riza, good managers are proactive, Riza's subs are nearly always reactive

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We just had a two week break with very few players off on international duty yet it looks like they spent no time on corners, attacking or defending. We were rarely likely to score from a corner but apart from one we tried the same shit every time. Where's the invention and ingenuity?

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Originally Posted by PontBlue

We just had a two week break with very few players off on international duty yet it looks like they spent no time on corners, attacking or defending. We were rarely likely to score from a corner but apart from one we tried the same shit every time. Where's the invention and ingenuity?

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Exactly. Set pieces arent just about having big players. Teams show that all the time.

In fairness to riza I do think riza could be a half decent under 23 manager. He seems to want to do things the "right" way overall and the first half showed that.

However as a manager for a team in the situation we are in its just not enough for what we need. Other teams who arent much more talented than us have either pulled away or are pulling us in- due to game management which is the difference.

Im not defending our players but also dont see why we couldnt compete with likes of preston qpr and milwall safely in mid table. With a half decent manager i think we could.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

yes I can see that I'm entirely on my own here, that doesn't bother me in the slightest.

to me it just seems like an air of desperation, that people want to blame everything on the manager if we got anything other than a win because we are in the last chance saloon.

the way I see it we played really well in the first half, and we're very fun to watch.
the start of the second half they were getting on top, and scored from an inventive free kick.
then on about 60 minutes we brought on subs and they weren't dominant any more, we finished the stronger of the 2 sides (albeit not as dominant as the first half)

people criticise the subs, and I can understand that, but it did stop Wednesdays dominance.
so really there was a 15 minute period at the start of the second half where they had got on top- I don't think thats too long to trust your players to work out how to work that out on the pitch before you need to change it yourself.

yes it's a disappointing result, especially given the others around us but we were actually pretty good yesterday.

if we had Wednesday's set piece coaches (I believe it's Purse and Ward in charge of ours?) then it would have probably been a very comfortable win.

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I can see what you’re saying and earlier in the season I would have come away disappointed in the result but not the actual performance and would have taken encouragement from that first half. However we are running out of time, our rivals Derby Luton Stoke and Portsmouth are now finding ways to win games , even if it’s not pretty, whereas we still have this soft underbelly that means we always look like conceding at some point in a game and just can’t keep a clean sheet. It’s no coincidence that our rivals yesterday all won by not conceding. I heard on the radio yesterday on the way to the game we’ve lost something like 24 points from winning positions ( whereas in comparison Wednesday have lost 9 points!)

As Eric pointed out we won all 50/50 challenges in the first half and then none in the first 15 minutes of the 2nd half. Is that a mentality thing to see such a drop off in performance?

The crumbs of comfort is we do now look capable of scoring, Salech has been an impressive signing and the return of Davies adds another attacking option . What we need to do is stop conceding and maybe we have to set up more defensively, especially away from home and then throw everything at it in the last 20 minutes of games. Though we dragged ourselves back into the game yesterday we never looked like scoring a winner and for a team in our desperate position that was disappointing and what people were taking from the game, not the good first half performance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ7rCj815-Q

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Ng would do what Ng does regardless of who was in charge. It's how he plays the game. He's a cheat, plain and simple.

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This, a thousand times this. There's no point in trying to stamp this out of his game, he won't. It has cost us time and time again, and he still carries on

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Originally Posted by PontBlue

We just had a two week break with very few players off on international duty yet it looks like they spent no time on corners, attacking or defending. We were rarely likely to score from a corner but apart from one we tried the same shit every time. Where's the invention and ingenuity?

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And yet, from the highlights posted, two of our four best chances in the first half (when we were playing well) came from corners. By that measure, we're not much better at creating opportunities from open play than we are from set pieces.