The Donald Trump thread

A lot of you guys are wasting your time because you aren't seeing it from America's perspective.

It's not their job to police the world. This is a European war that America is overwhelmingly paying for.

Why should they? They have the same social problems we do. They cant stop drugs from crossing the border that kill a thousand times more Americans than this war does, so why would they support sending endless sums to Ukraine?

Time for RealPolitik. The US ain't subsidizing is anymore. We need to deal with it

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

A lot of you guys are wasting your time because you aren't seeing it from America's perspective.

It's not their job to police the world. This is a European war that America is overwhelmingly paying for.

Why should they? They have the same social problems we do. They cant stop drugs from crossing the border that kill a thousand times more Americans than this war does, so why would they support sending endless sums to Ukraine?

Time for RealPolitik. The US ain't subsidizing is anymore. We need to deal with it

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I’ve seen it said in podcasts that what America has actually done is given Ukraine weapons they deemed obsolete and had been marked for destruction. I can’t say for sure that this is true or not, but it seems clear that the figures Trump is claiming America has “given” to Ukraine is a big exaggeration - this piece from the BBC is echoed by other news sources I’ve seen and makes your claim that America is paying “overwhelmingly” for the Ukraine war effort completely wrong..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crew8y7pwd5o

That said, I’d say the American claim for some reimbursement has some merit to it, but your attempts to justify the outrageous words and behaviour of Trump and Vance on Friday makes no recognition that they looked like they had switched their allegiance to support for the country that tried to completely invade Ukraine three years ago. Such a dramatic change of American allegiance taking little over a month after a period of eighty years of American - European cooperation over Russia is bound to have huge consequences at home and in Europe - especially when there is a chance that any US Government following in 2028 would look to restore what has been a more normal relationship with the Europeans.

To try to dismiss what America is doing like you have done and say Europe just has to get on with things themselves is over simplifying a decision which potentially has enormous questions that need to be clarified - especially when American has such an erratic President.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

A lot of you guys are wasting your time because you aren't seeing it from America's perspective.

It's not their job to police the world. This is a European war that America is overwhelmingly paying for.

Why should they? They have the same social problems we do. They cant stop drugs from crossing the border that kill a thousand times more Americans than this war does, so why would they support sending endless sums to Ukraine?

Time for RealPolitik. The US ain't subsidizing is anymore. We need to deal with it

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The US was one of the countries that persuaded Ukraine to give up its nukes in exchange for security assistance should it be attacked.

No deals with the US can be relied on ever again.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I’ve seen it said in podcasts that what America has actually done is given Ukraine weapons they deemed obsolete and had been marked for destruction. I can’t say for sure that this is true or not, but it seems clear that the figures Trump is claiming America has “given” to Ukraine is a big exaggeration - this piece from the BBC is echoed by other news sources I’ve seen and makes your claim that America is paying “overwhelmingly” for the Ukraine war effort completely wrong..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crew8y7pwd5o

That said, I’d say the American claim for some reimbursement has some merit to it, but your attempts to justify the outrageous words and behaviour of Trump and Vance on Friday makes no recognition that they looked like they had switched their allegiance to support for the country that tried to completely invade Ukraine three years ago. Such a dramatic change of American allegiance taking little over a month after a period of eighty years of American - European cooperation over Russia is bound to have huge consequences at home and in Europe - especially when there is a chance that any US Government following in 2028 would look to restore what has been a more normal relationship with the Europeans.

To try to dismiss what America is doing like you have done and say Europe just has to get on with things themselves is over simplifying a decision which potentially has enormous questions that need to be clarified - especially when American has such an erratic President.

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I heard a few years ago that a significant number of weapons and equipment was old and outdated I think I mentioned it on here and it was ignored.

With regards to your last paragraph, is Trump less erratic than Biden ?

Is there any access to a Russian perspective in all this or is it banned so we can only see the one sided narrative?

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

I heard a few years ago that a significant number of weapons and equipment was old and outdated I think I mentioned it on here and it was ignored.

With regards to your last paragraph, is Trump less erratic than Biden ?

Is there any access to a Russian perspective in all this or is it banned so we can only see the one sided narrative?

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Did you mention the old weapons to show that the degree of support being offered by the American President was not as great as claimed? If you did, then we're saying the same thing, albeit about different Presidents.

I'm not getting into an argument about which one out of the last two Presidents, both of whom showed that they were temperamentally unsuited for the job, is the more erratic - the simple fact is neither of them are/were up to the job.

We have people like you, and one or two others (none of whom are banned to the best of my knowledge) here to try and justify Putin's behaviour.

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Originally Posted by Canton Kev

The jumper and boots look is part of his “look” the same way Trump has his long red ties and MAGA hats. Or Steve Jobs always wearing black turtle necks and Lemmy with his iconic facial hair.

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You've been watching too much FashionTV :biggrin:

What is so controversial about agreeing to a ceasefire before entering into peace talks?

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Did you mention the old weapons to show that the degree of support being offered by the American President was not as great as claimed? If you did, then we're saying the same thing, albeit about different Presidents.

I'm not getting into an argument about which one out of the last two Presidents, both of whom showed that they were temperamentally unsuited for the job, is the more erratic - the simple fact is neither of them are/were up to the job.

We have people like you, and one or two others (none of whom are banned to the best of my knowledge) here to try and justify Putin's behaviour.

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Just to get this straight , just because I ask for a balanced explanation doesn’t mean I support anybody in this proxy war neither Russia or Ukraine. It would mean I was hypocritical as I wouldn’t want my son called up.

It’s predictable that you and a few others simply cannot see the facts and accept that people are entitled to question the consequences of prolonged conflict.

Are you suggesting anyone with a view that you don’t agree with should be banned, if so you’re a fool and is probably the reason why platforms like this are dying a slow death. Who do you think you are old timer ?

I see the UK has committed to £3bn per year financial aid for 100 years ( about 1/80 the of Zelenskyy wants )

What’s next, No fly zones? Troops in Ukraine? Long range missiles ?

How many troops does the UK have anyway , probably less than two Russian divisions.

As usual most of the posts which you wet the bed over have proven to be very on point

Trump is a nutcase surrounded by nutcases

It's important to stress that whilst he won the election LOADS of decent American people didn't vote for the lunatic

Putin is a ruthless dictator

Zelensky is far from perfect either

But ....America could easily vastly reduce its defence bill in Europe but still ensure that putin is told in no uncertain terms that he needs to get back to Moscow and a peace deal means he cannot invade again without consequences

America......here we mean trump .....is totally irrational and it's kidding itself if it thinks it's giving up its world policeman role .....if it feels like it it will jump in when it feels like it as it always has done .....and if it does the MAGA nutcases who are cheering on trump for pulling out of Europe will cheer him on again if he does on you turn

So unless America is prepared to play a smaller part but still a part in the Ukraine and baltic states situation with military and financial help then Britain , France , Denmark etc are going to have to somehow cobble together some kind of basic deterrent peacekeeping deal to buffer putin

Starmer is going to have to walk a very fine line and I am sure he's going to get lots of flak but I can't see what else he can do

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

Just to get this straight , just because I ask for a balanced explanation doesn’t mean I support anybody in this proxy war neither Russia or Ukraine. It would mean I was hypocritical as I wouldn’t want my son called up.

It’s predictable that you and a few others simply cannot see the facts and accept that people are entitled to question the consequences of prolonged conflict.

Are you suggesting anyone with a view that you don’t agree with should be banned, if so you’re a fool and is probably the reason why platforms like this are dying a slow death. Who do you think you are old timer ?

I see the UK has committed to £3bn per year financial aid for 100 years ( about 1/80 the of Zelenskyy wants )

What’s next, No fly zones? Troops in Ukraine? Long range missiles ?

How many troops does the UK have anyway , probably less than two Russian divisions.

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Here you go again, what did I say in my last post that was confrontational? I said we were probably talking about the same thing when it came to any old weapons, I said I didn't see the point in arguing about who was the worst out of two poor Presidents and I said you have never been banned, as far as I'm aware, from putting your views, which I can never remember being pro Ukraine or anti Russia, on here - what's there to argue about?

I'm done arguing with you anyway because you get personal in a way that James Wales or, to be fair to him. Gluey, doesn't.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Here you go again, what did I say in my last post that was confrontational? I said we were probably talking about the same thing when it came to any old weapons, I said I didn't see the point in arguing about who was the worst out of two poor Presidents and I said you have never been banned from, as far as I'm aware, from putting your views, which I can never remember being pro Ukraine or anti Russia, on here - what's there to argue about?

I'm done arguing with you anyway because you get personal in a way that James Wales or, to be fair to him. Gluey, doesn't.

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I don’t like you as your a snide OAP way above your station

I was listening to Stephen Nolan on radio 5 yesterday who was speaking to various politicians regarding the crisis and a Danish MP was going on about how bad putin was and Trump's bizarre behaviour but didn't come up with any clear comments that his country and the rest of Europe were going to get out the cash and fund some sort of defence system

They all need to stop gossiping and make some decisions

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

I don’t like you as your a snide OAP way above your station

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Can't help yourself can you - I'll not bother you again today.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I'm done arguing with you anyway because you get personal in a way that James Wales or, to be fair to him. Gluey, doesn't.

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That's because I am the most balanced poster on here and I'm not on any side, I just comment on what I see.

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

That's because I am the most balanced poster on here and I'm not on any side, I just comment on what I see.

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😂😂😂😂😂😂😂priceless. Keep giving mate cheers 👍

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Originally Posted by Packerman

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂priceless. Keep giving mate cheers 👍

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Crikey, it took you 144 minutes to appear, I must be losing my touch! :hehe:

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Trump is a nutcase surrounded by nutcases

It's important to stress that whilst he won the election LOADS of decent American people didn't vote for the lunatic

Putin is a ruthless dictator

Zelensky is far from perfect either

But ....America could easily vastly reduce its defence bill in Europe but still ensure that putin is told in no uncertain terms that he needs to get back to Moscow and a peace deal means he cannot invade again without consequences

America......here we mean trump .....is totally irrational and it's kidding itself if it thinks it's giving up its world policeman role .....if it feels like it it will jump in when it feels like it as it always has done .....and if it does the MAGA nutcases who are cheering on trump for pulling out of Europe will cheer him on again if he does on you turn

So unless America is prepared to play a smaller part but still a part in the Ukraine and baltic states situation with military and financial help then Britain , France , Denmark etc are going to have to somehow cobble together some kind of basic deterrent peacekeeping deal to buffer putin

Starmer is going to have to walk a very fine line and I am sure he's going to get lots of flak but I can't see what else he can do

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F**k the EU, not my words, if you'd rather not get another history lesson, just jump to 2 mins 20 seconds, fed up to the back teeth of the lot of it, you would have enjoyed town yesterday, St David's Day :biggrin: went in the bluebell for the 1st time since the rolling stones played in the old stadium, think it was called the Urban Jungle Tour, there was a guy sat on his jack with a Welsh dragon flag wrapped around him for a moment i though it was you :hehe: daffodils on the table, me and Doris did wander across the road to a place called the Welsh House for a bit of munch, very nice it was we both had the Lamb, we also did our bit for the climate nutters and walked into town along the Taff trail, tried to walk it back but gave up at the Blackweir tavern, aging legs mine not hers had had enough, we had done 17,000 steps at this point.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-media-max-width="560"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Everyone needs a history lesson on the reasons the Ukraine war started.<br><br>There was a neutrality deal ready in 2022 that would have avoided millions of deaths.<br><br>Biden’s Sec of State Blinken and UK Boris Johnson told Ukraine to cancel it.<br><br> <a href="https://t.co/1E7z5dTBM6">pic.twitter.com/1E7z5dTBM6</a></p>&mdash; Wall Street Mav (@WallStreetMav) <a href="https://twitter.com/WallStreetMav/status/1895993453349404845?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 2, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

A lot of you guys are wasting your time because you aren't seeing it from America's perspective.

It's not their job to police the world. This is a European war that America is overwhelmingly paying for.

Why should they? They have the same social problems we do. They cant stop drugs from crossing the border that kill a thousand times more Americans than this war does, so why would they support sending endless sums to Ukraine?

Time for RealPolitik. The US ain't subsidizing is anymore. We need to deal with it

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I actually agree with your post. The very best a United Europe could have done years ago was to have built-up a strong European Military and have abandoned the USA years ago by treating it as a Geopolitical threat to be kept at arms distance.

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

I actually agree with your post. The very best a United Europe could have done years ago was to have built-up a strong European Military and have abandoned the USA years ago by treating it as a Geopolitical threat to be kept at arms distance.

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Yeah its just the reality of it and we know it's been coming. The thing is this is happening on our continent. It's not happening on theirs so I can see the resentment at paying far more to try and win the war.

I don't think the US cares so much about Russia anymore. China is a far greater rival and I think it views it all as an expensive distraction.

Understanding that will help us move forward I think. The reality is that the US just isn't going to keep funding the war

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Yeah its just the reality of it and we know it's been coming. The thing is this is happening on our continent. It's not happening on theirs so I can see the resentment at paying far more to try and win the war.

I don't think the US cares so much about Russia anymore. China is a far greater rival and I think it views it all as an expensive distraction.

Understanding that will help us move forward I think. The reality is that the US just isn't going to keep funding the war

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When you look at their history in global conflicts, “it’s not in their continent” is hardly a reason for the USA to not get involved.

Since Bush they’ve been in conflicts involving Palestine, Israel, Yemen, Libya, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Niger, Uganda, DR Congo, Sudan, CAR, Somalia and Pakistan.

Go back a bit further and they’ve been involved in the Gulf War, Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia, Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Panama and a dozen more Middle Eastern and African conflicts.

America has built themselves up as the “world peacekeeper”. The money and resources they put towards their military is unmatched. They spend more on their military than the next 10 nations combined. There’s 21 active aircraft carriers in the world and America has 12. The country with the next highest is the UK, joint with China and India on 2. The USA has military bases in half the countries on the planet.

Whether or not they should be so involved globally is another matter, but the fact is they are. Including signing the Budapest Memorandum in 1994, promising protection to Ukraine from foreign invasion.

They might have the same social problems we do, but they’ve also decided to dedicate just short of a Trillion Dollars to their military spending despite being bordered by 2 allies and sitting ~5000 miles away from their main “enemies”.

If the Trump administration redirects the tens or hundreds of Billions of dollars destined for Ukraine towards stopping Mexican drugs I’ll hold my hands up and say fair enough, I’ve got a sneaking suspicion that won’t be the case however.

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Originally Posted by Canton Kev

When you look at their history in global conflicts, “it’s not in their continent” is hardly a reason for the USA to not get involved.

Since Bush they’ve been in conflicts involving Palestine, Israel, Yemen, Libya, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Niger, Uganda, DR Congo, Sudan, CAR, Somalia and Pakistan.

Go back a bit further and they’ve been involved in the Gulf War, Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia, Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Panama and a dozen more Middle Eastern and African conflicts.

America has built themselves up as the “world peacekeeper”. The money and resources they put towards their military is unmatched. They spend more on their military than the next 10 nations combined. There’s 21 active aircraft carriers in the world and America has 12. The country with the next highest is the UK, joint with China and India on 2. The USA has military bases in half the countries on the planet.

Whether or not they should be so involved globally is another matter, but the fact is they are. Including signing the Budapest Memorandum in 1994, promising protection to Ukraine from foreign invasion.

They might have the same social problems we do, but they’ve also decided to dedicate just short of a Trillion Dollars to their military spending despite being bordered by 2 allies and sitting ~5000 miles away from their main “enemies”.

If the Trump administration redirects the tens or hundreds of Billions of dollars destined for Ukraine towards stopping Mexican drugs I’ll hold my hands up and say fair enough, I’ve got a sneaking suspicion that won’t be the case however.

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I agree with your analysis Kev. They have a long history of involvement in foreign wars and being thr global policeman and there's good and bad in that.

But it isn't happening going forward in Ukraine, certainly not without Europe stepping up. Our continent feels slightly more vulnerable as a result but it doesn't change that reality of the situation.

I still think we will end up with a peace deal in the coming weeks personally, but with Europe guaranteeing more financial support for a US led security guarantee.

I realise this may look very stupid in a few weeks!

Kier Starmer…

“The UK are prepared to back this with boots on the ground and planes in the air“.

Any thoughts on this?

I was just on the phone with my Dad and he believes it’s the right thing to do and that we have no choice.

I believe that it is insanity and War Hawking that could potentially end up killing millions.

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

Kier Starmer…

“The UK are prepared to back this with boots on the ground and planes in the air“.

Any thoughts on this?

I was just on the phone with my Dad and he believes it’s the right thing to do and that we have no choice.

I believe that it is insanity and War Hawking that could potentially end up killing millions.

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Got a feeling that unfortunately Putin is the type of person that will only see sense when he sees a strong opposition that are willing to go toe to toe, at the moment he likes to think Europe is weak….Hard to fathom that our supposed allies over the pond are siding with the new Hitler, can you imagine that back in 1940…..begs belief.

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

Kier Starmer…

“The UK are prepared to back this with boots on the ground and planes in the air“.

Any thoughts on this?

I was just on the phone with my Dad and he believes it’s the right thing to do and that we have no choice.

I believe that it is insanity and War Hawking that could potentially end up killing millions.

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Zelensky has to accept that putin has grabbed and will keep what he has

I think then a multi agency force or weaponry of some kind .....even if it's just lightweight .....has to happen

If Russia really wants to take over Ukraine , the baltic states etc etc then unless there is a huge army or the threat of a nuclear strike facing him then let's be honest .....he's going to eventually do it

I think starmer is doing his best in a very difficult situation

I would imagine behind all this hand shaking and greetings zelensky is having to accept that putin has unfortunately over powered him and always will

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