I have started a thread specifically about the Syrian uprising as I am conscious that I am hi-jacking the Hamas vs IDF thread!
Printable View
I have started a thread specifically about the Syrian uprising as I am conscious that I am hi-jacking the Hamas vs IDF thread!
A very big worry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gofer Blue
Fingers crossed. Did read that there has started to be a bit of infighting between Kurdish leaders. Hopefully they get themselves sortedQuote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...za-study-finds
A new study of children living through the war in Gaza has found that 96% of them feel that their death is imminent and almost half want to die as a result of the trauma they have been through.
A needs assessment, carried out by a Gaza-based NGO sponsored by the War Child Alliance charity, also found that 92% of the children in the survey were “not accepting of reality”, 79% suffer from nightmares and 73% exhibit symptoms of aggression.
“This report lays bare that Gaza is one of the most horrifying places in the world to be a child,” Helen Pattinson, chief executive of War Child UK, said. “Alongside the levelling of hospitals, schools and homes, a trail of psychological destruction has caused wounds unseen but no less destructive on children who hold no responsibility for this war.”
....
The estimated death toll in Gaza is more than 44,000 and a recent assessment by the UN Human Rights Office found that 44% of the fatalities it was able to verify were children.
....
About 1.9 million Palestinians in Gaza, approximately 90% of the territory’s total population, have been displaced, many several times. Half of that number are children who have lost their home and been forced to flee their neighbourhoods.
More than 60% of the surveyed children reported having experienced traumatic events during the war and some had been exposed to multiple traumatic events.
An estimated 17,000 children in Gaza are unaccompanied, separated from their parents, although the study notes the real number may be much higher.
....
The sense of being doomed has become pervasive. Almost all the children (96%) felt their death was imminent, and 49% actually wished to die, a feeling that was much more prevalent among boys (72%) than girls (26%).
What a heartbreaking report. The survivors will form Hamas Mk.II for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
‘Everything is gone’: how Israeli forces destroyed Jabaliya refugee camp
https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...estruction-idf
https://www.hrw.org/report/2024/12/1...estinians-gaza
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...n-rights-watch
Israel’s restriction of Gaza’s water supply to levels below minimum needs amounts to an act of genocide and extermination as a crime against humanity, a human rights report has alleged.
Human Rights Watch (HRW) investigated Israeli attacks on the water supply infrastructure in Gaza over the course of its 14-month war there.
It has accused Israeli forces of deliberate actions intended to cut the availability of clean water so drastically that the population has been forced to resort to contaminated sources, leading to the outbreak of lethal diseases, especially among children.
Israel’s actions have killed many thousands of Palestinians and constitute an act of genocide, HRW argues, citing declarations by ministers in the country’s ruling coalition that Gaza’s water supply would be cut off as evidence of intent.
....
The allegations put forward by HRW are not as broad as Amnesty’s, focusing specifically on the Gaza water supply, but the organisation claims the evidence is overwhelming that Israel has used water as a weapon against the Palestinian population collectively, with lethal results.
“Human Rights Watch finds that these Israeli policies have amounted to the crime against humanity of extermination and acts of genocide,” Lama Fakih, the director of HRW’s Middle East and North Africa division, said.
She said the report showed: “Israeli authorities at the most senior level were responsible for the destruction, including the deliberate destruction, of water and sanitation infrastructure, the prevention of repairs to damaged water and sanitation infrastructure and the cutting off or severe restrictions on water, electricity and fuel.
“These acts have likely caused thousands of deaths and will likely continue to cause deaths into the future, including after the cessation of hostilities.”
There have been nearly 670,000 recorded cases of acute watery diarrhoea since the war began, and more than 132,000 cases of jaundice, a sign of hepatitis. Survivable childhood diseases have also become significantly more lethal because of the destruction of Gaza’s hospitals and health clinics.
....
Most of Gaza’s drinkable water came from three pipelines controlled by the Israeli water authority and desalination plants.
Those pipelines were cut at the start of the war and only partially reopened. The United Arab Emirates built a water pipeline across the border from Egypt in February, but that supply was cut by damage to the pipeline caused during the Israel Defense Forces’ (IDF) assault on Rafah.
Gaza’s three main desalination plants halted operations soon after the start of the war and were only able to restart on a partial basis after Israel allowed the UN and other aid agencies to bring in limited quantities of fuel.
Satellite imagery that HRW examined showed that the solar panel arrays powering four of Gaza’s six wastewater treatment plants were razed by Israeli military bulldozers – in northern Gaza, the al-Bureij camp and the Sheikh Ejleen plants in central Gaza and Khan Younis in the south.
Satellite images also showed that 11 of Gaza’s 54 water reservoirs had been completely or largely destroyed, and 20 more showed signs of damage.
A video that appeared on social media in July 2024 showed IDF combat engineers filming themselves blowing up a reservoir in the Tal Sultan district of Rafah.
....
As evidence of intent, the HRW report points to declarations by Israeli ministers at the onset of the war. On 9 October 2023, the then defence minister, Yoav Gallant, ordered a “complete siege” of Gaza.
“There will be no electricity, no food, no water, no fuel. Everything is closed,” he stated. Gallant is the subject of an international criminal court arrest warrant for alleged war crimes.
Israel Katz, then energy minister and now defence minister, echoed the call for water, electricity and fuel supplies to Gaza to be cut off two days after Gallant’s comments.
New Médecins Sans Frontières report and press release 19 December 2024
https://www.msf.org/msf-report-expos...al-destruction
- A new report from MSF highlights how repeated Israeli military attacks on civilians in Gaza, and the systematic denial of humanitarian assistance are destroying the conditions of life.
- Our teams in the north of Gaza are seeing clear signs of ethnic cleansing as Palestinians are forcibly displaced, trapped, and bombed.
- The health care system lies in ruins and medical staff - including MSF's - have been detained or killed.
- We call for an immediate ceasefire and for states to leverage their influence to alleviate the suffering of people and enable a massive scale-up of aid in Gaza.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-is-the-action
A consensus is building. On 5 December, Amnesty International concluded after an investigation that “Israel has committed and is continuing to commit genocide against Palestinians in the occupied Gaza Strip”. A few days later, the European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights (ECCHR) stated that after research and analysis, it concluded that “there is a legally sound argument that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinians in Gaza”.
A few days after that, Human Rights Watch (HRW) declared that “Israeli authorities are responsible for the crime against humanity of extermination and for acts of genocide”, and Médecins Sans Frontières reported that its medical “teams in the north of Gaza are seeing clear signs of ethnic cleansing”. Earlier in November, HRW also concluded that Israel’s actions in Gaza amounted to “war crimes” and “crimes against humanity”, and appeared to “also meet the definition of ethnic cleansing”.
Following the issuing of arrest warrants for Benjamin Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant by the international criminal court (ICC), also in November, for alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity, all these recent judgments end the year with an emphatic categorisation of the assault in Gaza as a violation of international law. They join the International Commission of Jurists and the UN in condemning Israel’s war. The country, and its head of state, are now, according to the courts and human rights organisations that make up the world’s legal and moral authorities, outlaws.
But the judgments, strong language and suggested measures echo in a vacuum: there is no enforcement. The US continues to defend Israel against an emerging global consensus and to arm it. Other supporters use the language of loopholes and riddles that we have become so accustomed to since the start of the war. The UK suspended a small portion of its arms exports, but insists that it remains a “staunch ally” of the country and would still engage with Netanyahu, but also would somehow still comply with its legal obligations. France came up with an impressive legal reading, stating that Netanyahu in fact enjoyed immunity as Israel was not a signatory to the ICC (a reading that would also extend immunity to Vladimir Putin and Omar al-Bashir).
But nothing happens. The bombs keep being delivered, and the diplomatic cover remains. IDF soldiers boast of their murders on social media. Doctors, journalists, aid workers and children continue to be dismembered, burned and crushed to death.
Some people are not people. Some crimes are not crimes. Some hypocrisy (including from our government) is off the scale!
Yet another harrowing report. However I don't know what you or I, as individuals, can do anymore, jon1959?Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Whatever any of us do it will not be enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gofer Blue
I think there have been two shifts in recent months. One - a recognition in most of the world, including 'the west' and amongst a large proportion of the Jewish community outside Israel, that Israel is guilty of daily war crimes, genocide and a contempt for international law. Two - that the situation has become almost normalised as the world fails to react and in some instances encourages that situation.
To my mind the minimum that should be done is to provide whatever practical aid we can to the victims, to support whatever actions we can to condemn the atrocities and to demand that our governments act in whatever way they can to stop it on the basis of political and social justice, and finally 'to bear witness'. In a very small way this thread contributes to the last one - I hope.
Mother Teresa said, “We cannot all do great things, but we can do small things with great love, and together, we can do something wonderful”.
At last a ceasefire deal it seems. Sadly I don't feel very optimistic as the level of trust between the two sides must be virtually zero. I wonder which side will claim that the other side has broken the ceasefire first.
I see Trump is taking credit already, conveniently forgetting all the effort that Blinken and others have put in over these many months.
Peace through strength, it was Trumps special envoy who brokered the deal but let's not split hairs, here's hoping peace is maintained and bollox to the politicians claiming the victory lap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gofer Blue
It's obviously great news and let's all hope it holds and is sustainable
Best news for ages.Hope for both sides.
It is a good 'time limited' first step (if the Israeli Cabinet agree on it tomorrow morning).
IDF pulling back if not out, much more aid - especially through the Rafah Crossing, hostage releases, prisoner releases (in many cases Palestinian prisoners are also 'hostages'), return to the piles of rubble that used to be home, medical evacuation of many sick and injured.
But stage 2 (more releases and further IDF withdrawal) is not guaranteed and there is no detail of a stage 3 (Gaza reconstruction, security and governance).
Trump's post on his social media channel are as crass as ever and make clear his only concern is Americans and Israelis - not a word about the Palestinians - and being able to claim personal credit.
Despite the claims of Biden most observers were clear that Israel not Hamas torpedoed all the previous cease fire negotiations, and now Ben Gvir and friends have confirmed that it was all their own work. If they have been brought on side (still uncertain) by Trump's representative it must have involved some promises about what the Trump administration will do to forward their fascist agenda. I assume that means - on top of the moves Trump made last time around Jerusalem and getting Gulf dictators to recognise Israel - that more ethnic cleansing of the West Bank, East Jerusalem, the Negev and eventually Gaza will get the US green light?
I don't think Trump is a convinced Zionist like Biden, and many of his statements are clearly anti Semitic whilst being 100% supportive of Israel, but he has the potential to take any remaining US breaks off and allow Netanyahu (backed by Ben Gvir and Smotrich etc) to do what they want. Peace and justice for Palestinians only had lip service from Biden. It won't even get that from Trump.
But as a first step this should be welcomed.
Israeli Cabinet delayed meeting to approve (or not) the deal.
Another 70 Palestinians killed by the IDF in Gaza overnight.
Great that the Israeli hostages were released as per agreed plan but worrying to see Hamas gunmen mixing freely with the crowds. Clearly the IDF has failed to entirely eliminate Hamas. I think the only way Hamas will be defeated is if the Palestinian population as a whole reject them - clearly they currently have their support, whether this is genuine or simply through fear/intimidation I don't know for sure. I suspect the latter as I have done for a while, otherwise surely the majority of Palestinians would not tolerate the daily slaughter of innocent women and children as whole families are being bombed to eliminate one or two Hamas members in their midst?
'Whole families are being bombed' to terrorise a whole population and as part of a deliberate plan for ethnic cleansing of Gaza.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gofer Blue
Great if the Palestinian hostages are also 'released as per agreed plan'.
This is one small step in the right direction but no guarantee it will continue, and no 'day after' plan in place.
A sad but yet accurate summary of the Gaza situation I think. The seeds of mutual hatred and distrust have been planted in a new generation, both Jewish and Palestinian.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Sadly I think this is inevitable in war, especially modern warfare. I think if social media had been around in WW2 or Vietnam we would have seen similar stuff regrettably.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Think of Dresden what happen there was terrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gofer Blue
Indeed. I remember reading about people being burnt alive as they tried to run to safety but their feet got stuck in the tarmac when it melted in the heat. The stuff of nightmares.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepster
I read something today that said there were 400,000 civilians killed in UK/US bombing raids on German cities in the Second World War (figures that dwarfed the UK civilian death toll from German bombing) and in addition 75,000 POWs killed by allied bombs!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gofer Blue
https://www.reuters.com/world/trump-...nk-2025-01-21/
WASHINGTON, Jan 20 (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump on Monday rescinded sanctions imposed by the former Biden administration on far-right Israeli settler groups and individuals accused of being involved in violence against Palestinians in the occupied West Bank, the new White House website said.
The website said Trump rescinded Executive Order 14115 issued on Feb. 1, 2024, which authorized the imposition of certain sanctions "on Persons Undermining Peace, Security, and Stability in the West Bank."
To celebrate this expected reversal illegal Israeli settlers attacked Palestinian villages 3 hours before the announcement was made.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel...nded%208%2C192.
OCHA (UN Office for the Co-ordination of Humanitarian Affairs) reported, from 1 January to 19 September 2023, Israeli settlers and forces killed 189 Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and wounded 8,192. OCHA also said on average, there are three cases of settlers attacking Palestinians in the West Bank of the Jordan River every day, resulting in the killing and injuring of Palestinians, harming their property, and preventing them from reaching their land, workplace, family, and friends.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/...-the-past-year
Over the past year, at least 1,423 incidents of settler violence in the occupied West Bank were recorded – an average of four a day, according to data from the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.
Biden was an apologist for crimes against humanity and an enabler of genocide. Trump is worse.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/...t-to-west-bank
President Donald Trump’s pick to be the United States ambassador to the United Nations has become the latest administration nominee to express the belief that Israel has “biblical” dominion over the occupied West Bank.
Truthpaste clones now in control of the White House and the Capitol - and going to war with the UN and what is left of international law and the post-WW2 'rules based' order.
The fascists in the Israeli government and many of the illegal West Bank settlements (and East Jerusalem) must think that all their Christmases (lol - as Truthpaste would say) have come together!
Wonder how Gazza-Westbank will look in 4yrs.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Will there be any Palestinians there or full of Israeli real estate agents.
Probably largely depends whether they elect a bunch of racist terrorists or not I guess!? I say that in jest as people shouldn't be held accountable for their governments actions but it is still largely trueQuote:
Originally Posted by jeepster
I sincerely hope the next four years is more peaceful than the last 40 though. You won't have peace of you don't recognise your neighbouring countries right to exist (and that goes for both sides!)
I was listening to a podcast this morning where they were discussing the motivation for Trump to push the ceasefire, and the Israeli government for accepting it (at least stage 1).Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepster
The consensus was that Trump has three drivers: photo op with relatives of Israeli hostages at his inauguration; a massive commercial opportunity for him, his family and his henchmen to exploit (the Jared Kushner vision for Trumpworld on the Med with all those new Gaza hotels and casinos - and very few Palestinians); and a chance to get hold of the Nobel Peace Prize (he is pissed that Obama has one and he doesn't).
Netanyahu's motivation is more immediate and personal - just staying onside with Trump to avoid conviction and gaol, either in Tel Aviv or the Hague. He has lost Ben Gvir from his government, but Smotrich is still there and he is able to govern if Ben Gvir keeps his word not to collapse the government from outside. Very tenuous position, but it is all about kissing Trump's ring (both of them).
But 4 years down the line the Israeli and US governments are both on course to complete the ethnic cleansing of Palestine (maybe with fewer dead babies than recently) and achieving Greater Israel 'from the river to the sea'. If the world stands by and lets it happen it will happen. But I don't think Netanyahu and Trump will have everything their own way.
Not just true but crucial; and with this one comment you have touched on the key issue in this entire mess.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Yes, the racist terrorists are the key issue:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ceasefire-deal
Time to boycott Microsoft?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-war-microsoft
It does start to show how deeply international Tech companies (like armaments companies) are tied in to repressive regimes - driven by looking for 'favourable' political outcomes as much as making money. Never mind paranoid theories about WEF chat rooms, the Great Reset, black-eyed babies, 5G mind control or deflection racist crap of the sort that dominated much of social media and the Tommy Robinson Fan Club. This is 21st Century capitalism, exploitation and control.Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo
Life isn't as black and white as you make out.
If Microsoft are making moral decisions on investments (which they aren't) is there not a strong argument that the only democracy in the Middle East and the place with by far he greatest human rights etc is in fact the best place to invest?
I have a decent amount of sympathy with criticism of Israels response to the Hamas attacks etc but this is where things start to slip into a purely anti-Israel stance
I understand why you're seeing it that way, but there's only so much we can do as citizen's in another country to make our voices heard. Besides, I'm nearly as much anti-Microsoft (as well as other giant international tech companies) as I am anti-Netenyahu/IDF. So, I'm killing two birds with one stone here.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Democracy - and a degree of liberalism - for first class Israeli Jewish citizens. Far fewer rights for second class Israeli Arab citizens. And occupied and/or besieged Palestinian Arabs have very few rights at all and are subject to decades of contempt, exploitation and casual murder. It has been in plain sight since the state was founded. It became more explicit after 1973. It became enshrined in the constitution with the adoption of the Nation State Law about 6 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
That is not an ‘anti Israel stance’. Many citizens of the state of Israel - Jewish and Arab - have spent their lives fighting that apartheid system. The ease with which people parrot the ‘only democracy in the Middle East’ lie is shocking, whether it is done in ignorance or with a more sinister purpose.