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Re: TORYS NOW TO SELL OFF HOUSING ASSOCIATION HOMES !!
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibald leitch wrote on Tue, 14 April 2015 23:41
Even the Torygraph think this is bonkers, or rather, in thier words
'economically illiterate and morally wrong'
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Tue, 14 April 2015 23:35
Its hard to take seriously an article that thinks the 5.8bn cost to the taxpayer is cash the treasury has that can be spent on other things, rather than the lost revenue from providing the discount.
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Originally Posted by archibald leitch wrote on Tue, 14 April 2015 23:32
Sorry - what lost revenue are you talking about?
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Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Tue, 14 April 2015 23:30
discount on market value
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Originally Posted by archibald leitch wrote on Tue, 14 April 2015 23:23
Sorry, you have lost me, the governmnet are planning on giving away up to £5.8bn of tax payers money away to prople who want to buy their social housing. What revenue are we talking about? Market value is not revenue.
from what you have said would indicate you have misunderstood what is happening. The treasury will not be paying out 5.8bn in cash. The treasury will receive 5.8bn less than the market value of the properties being sold. This cost to the taxpayer is the discount being provided.
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Re: TORYS NOW TO SELL OFF HOUSING ASSOCIATION HOMES !!
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Wed, 15 April 2015 00:36
Even the Torygraph think this is bonkers, or rather, in thier words
'economically illiterate and morally wrong'
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibald leitch wrote on Tue, 14 April 2015 23:41
Its hard to take seriously an article that thinks the 5.8bn cost to the taxpayer is cash the treasury has that can be spent on other things, rather than the lost revenue from providing the discount.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Tue, 14 April 2015 23:35
Sorry - what lost revenue are you talking about?
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibald leitch wrote on Tue, 14 April 2015 23:32
discount on market value
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Tue, 14 April 2015 23:30
Sorry, you have lost me, the governmnet are planning on giving away up to £5.8bn of tax payers money away to prople who want to buy their social housing. What revenue are we talking about? Market value is not revenue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibald leitch wrote on Tue, 14 April 2015 23:23
from what you have said would indicate you have misunderstood what is happening. The treasury will not be paying out 5.8bn in cash. The treasury will receive 5.8bn less than the market value of the properties being sold. This cost to the taxpayer is the discount being provided.
As we are talking about housing association propertoes, why would the governmnet recive a penny from the sale no matter what price they are sold for - the governmnet do not own them!
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Re: TORYS NOW TO SELL OFF HOUSING ASSOCIATION HOMES !!
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Re: TORYS NOW TO SELL OFF HOUSING ASSOCIATION HOMES !!
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Originally Posted by gurkhablue wrote on Tue, 14 April 2015 23:52
From what I heard the discount available depends on how long they have been in the property. The longer you have been there - the more rent you have paid - the bigger the discount.
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Originally Posted by GRUMPYS DEN wrote on Tue, 14 April 2015 20:28
Yeah I get that but I just can't see how that makes financial sense. We have a stock of housing, why sell them for less than they are worth? To give people a shot at owning a house who perhaps otherwise wouldn't have? Great for them but unfortunately (as we have seen from the Thatcher years and beyond) that hurts future generations ability to rent affordably.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gurkhablue wrote on Tue, 14 April 2015 14:28
Short term thinking in my opinion.
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Originally Posted by GRUMPYS DEN wrote on Tue, 14 April 2015 11:44
The Tories rewarding their landlord supporters by reducing the availability of public rentals keeping the private sector buoyant and rents high.
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Originally Posted by gurkhablue wrote on Tue, 14 April 2015 11:16
Or perhaps giving an incentive to those not so well off who want to buy their own homes.Twist the arguement which way you will.
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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Tue, 14 April 2015 10:48
You forgot the fact the fact that they won't be advertised on the open market to everyone, just to person in possession!
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Jimmy wrote on Tue, 14 April 2015 10:40
Forgot-incorrect assumption.As I said twist the arguement which way you will.
So it isn't an incentive for people not so well off who want to buy their own homes.Not sure which Housing Association you claim to have knowledge of but they don't all have the same rules and regulations as you claim.Truth http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif A lesson on that from you is a wasted one.Political dogma-top marks to you.
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Re: TORYS NOW TO SELL OFF HOUSING ASSOCIATION HOMES !!
@archie
I am referring to the LHA debt that has to be repaid upon disposal.
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Re: TORYS NOW TO SELL OFF HOUSING ASSOCIATION HOMES !!
If the maggie thatcher tribute act party are so keen to sell off things they don't own why don't they propose a policy of funding the national health service for the next ten years by selling off Manchester Utd football club?
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Re: TORYS NOW TO SELL OFF HOUSING ASSOCIATION HOMES !!
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Originally Posted by jon1959 wrote on Tue, 14 April 2015 10:52
Its the right to buy all over again , huge discounts to win votes
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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY wrote on Tue, 14 April 2015 05:46
They never change
Perhaps if a few of the Chief Executives and other Directors in these "Not for profit" organisations took a decent salary rather than these inflated salaries, the rents of the properties they manage would be a little more affordable.
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Re: TORYS NOW TO SELL OFF HOUSING ASSOCIATION HOMES !!
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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue wrote on Wed, 15 April 2015 09:15
Its the right to buy all over again , huge discounts to win votes
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Originally Posted by jon1959 wrote on Tue, 14 April 2015 10:52
They never change
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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY wrote on Tue, 14 April 2015 05:46
Until this country moves closer to the Dutch and German mixed housing tenure instead of pushing the obsession for everyone to buy rather than have affordable housing and more cheaper renting across the board we and future generations are doomed
My direct experience is of Council/ALMO housing, and in that case the cost of expansion of RTB and increase in discounts under the coalition all fell on the Council's ringfenced Housing Revenue Account and meant cuts in services for remaining tenants.
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Re: TORYS NOW TO SELL OFF HOUSING ASSOCIATION HOMES !!
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibald leitch wrote on Wed, 15 April 2015 06:57
As we are talking about housing association propertoes, why would the governmnet recive a penny from the sale no matter what price they are sold for - the governmnet do not own them!
In response, the Conservative Party said there is already a 'preserved Right to Buy' - which applies to stock transfer associations - and a Right to Acquire without there being a reclassification of debt. A spokesperson said: 'This policy will not lead to a reclassification of the housing association sector.'
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Re: TORYS NOW TO SELL OFF HOUSING ASSOCIATION HOMES !!
Oh dear. Article in the Finacial Times pours a bucket of cold water over the tory right to buy fiasco. A yougov poll finds only 27% agree with it.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c37964ae-e291-11e4-ba33-00144feab7 de.html#axzz3XNJuZaoR
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Re: TORYS NOW TO SELL OFF HOUSING ASSOCIATION HOMES !!
@Jon
Isn't the majority of the debt due to the government from the original funding? After all, all HA's are funded by the government through their various agencies.
if the government does proceed with this then surely it is nationalising the social housing stock. I'm not sure why some would be against this since they are against the selling through RTB...perhaps maybe it is because it is a conservative policy and all conservative policies are bad by default.
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Re: TORYS NOW TO SELL OFF HOUSING ASSOCIATION HOMES !!
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Wed, 15 April 2015 12:26
@Jon
Ps, what happened to your "i am not a tory" bollox, you regularly used to spout? Penarth Cons had a word? http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif
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Re: TORYS NOW TO SELL OFF HOUSING ASSOCIATION HOMES !!
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Wed, 15 April 2015 12:26
@Jon
Do you think it's the best idea to be nationalising £60bn of debt right now?
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Re: TORYS NOW TO SELL OFF HOUSING ASSOCIATION HOMES !!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiffa wrote on Wed, 15 April 2015 12:47
@Jon
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Wed, 15 April 2015 12:26
Isn't the majority of the debt due to the government from the original funding? After all, all HA's are funded by the government through their various agencies.
I've already said that most of the debt will be to the government so this won't increase as much as you would expect.
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Re: TORYS NOW TO SELL OFF HOUSING ASSOCIATION HOMES !!
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Originally Posted by gnasher wrote on Wed, 15 April 2015 12:43
@Jon
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Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Wed, 15 April 2015 12:26
Isn't the majority of the debt due to the government from the original funding? After all, all HA's are funded by the government through their various agencies.
whatever you say Swampy. I'd rather discuss the points being raised rather than get involved in the punch and judy politics that you and our politicians seem to favour. so with that I will be you adieu
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Re: TORYS NOW TO SELL OFF HOUSING ASSOCIATION HOMES !!
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Wed, 15 April 2015 13:08
@Jon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiffa wrote on Wed, 15 April 2015 12:47
Isn't the majority of the debt due to the government from the original funding? After all, all HA's are funded by the government through their various agencies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Wed, 15 April 2015 12:26
if the government does proceed with this then surely it is nationalising the social housing stock. I'm not sure why some would be against this since they are against the selling through RTB...perhaps maybe it is because it is a conservative policy and all conservative policies are bad by default.
Their main borrowing has been from the banks, using their property and land assets, and rental income streams, as security. They can't borrow as cheaply as Councils - but it is my understanding that the majority of HA new build and acquisition (buying existing homes from Councils or the open market) has been funded by bank borrowing and rental income surplus.
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Re: TORYS NOW TO SELL OFF HOUSING ASSOCIATION HOMES !!
thanks, but I'm pretty sure the HAs are funded generally by the following:-London - Greater London CouncilEngland - Homes and Communities AgencyWales - Welsh Governmentditto Scotland and Northern Ireland.corporate bonds are issued (as banks tend not to issue loans after the crash), but these bonds are backed by the assets (the housing stock).If the debt is nationalised, so will the corresponding housing stock which will then result in a zero sum transfer assuming the bonds in issue are equal to the market value of the housing stock (I'm being generous here as no corporate bonds will be issued at 100% of the security that is backing it)
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Re: TORYS NOW TO SELL OFF HOUSING ASSOCIATION HOMES !!
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Re: TORYS NOW TO SELL OFF HOUSING ASSOCIATION HOMES !!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colon Man wrote on Wed, 15 April 2015 14:13
This is what the radical Trotskyite Daily Telegraph has to say about it:
Very hard to argue against any of that
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Re: TORYS NOW TO SELL OFF HOUSING ASSOCIATION HOMES !!
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Wed, 15 April 2015 14:02
thanks, but I'm pretty sure the HAs are funded generally by the following:-
Much of the current Housing Association development is funded jointly by the landowner/ developer / HA, with the HA borrowing 42% of the cost of the scheme and the other 58% being funded by the landowner/ developer. There is actually minimal public money going into current HA development in Wales.
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Re: TORYS NOW TO SELL OFF HOUSING ASSOCIATION HOMES !!
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Wed, 15 April 2015 14:02
thanks, but I'm pretty sure the HAs are funded generally by the following:-
Croesy's explanation of how development finances are pulled together for Welsh Housing Association new build sounds right.
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Re: TORYS NOW TO SELL OFF HOUSING ASSOCIATION HOMES !!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959 wrote on Wed, 15 April 2015 15:38
thanks, but I'm pretty sure the HAs are funded generally by the following:-
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Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Wed, 15 April 2015 14:02
London - Greater London Council
well I've been corrected regarding how Wales is funded and I'm sure you know better than I regarding England but the funding wasn't the main point I was trying to make although I did get bogged down in it. If the debt is nationalised then so will the assets so it will be a zero sum game. It is not as if the government will take on the debt repayments without taking the rent receipts, that is, the HAs will not keep the assets and the revenue they generate if they get rid of the debt. It will be both or neither.
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Re: TORYS NOW TO SELL OFF HOUSING ASSOCIATION HOMES !!
I don't normally bother with non football posts unless something gets to me, but this election is now getting to m, especially the tripe being spewed by Milliband and Sturgeon.
There is only one logical, responsible, sensible and realistic party to vote for in this election.
There will be nothing but total despair if the conservatives do not win a majority.
The thought of this nation, in the rudest of health possible after being virtually bankrupted by the last socialists, and given the constraints of the Lib Dem's, being handed to an inept group of socialists would be totally irresponsible.
Why would anyone not want the nation to continue getting stronger across all classes and regions? Does anyone have any idea what damage would be done by letting that buffoon Balls loose on the economy?
The appropriate reward for hauling the nation back to a decent standard should be a majority Conservative government.
The nation as a while should be grateful and thankful that the country presently is safe in the hands of the Conservatives with people who know what they are doing, and have shown they know what to do.
How can anyone seriously argue with that?
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Re: TORYS NOW TO SELL OFF HOUSING ASSOCIATION HOMES !!
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Originally Posted by Cretin Hop wrote on Wed, 15 April 2015 16:02
I don't normally bother with non football posts unless something gets to me, but this election is now getting to m, especially the tripe being spewed by Milliband and Sturgeon.
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif
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Re: TORYS NOW TO SELL OFF HOUSING ASSOCIATION HOMES !!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cretin Hop wrote on Wed, 15 April 2015 16:02
I don't normally bother with non football posts unless something gets to me, but this election is now getting to m, especially the tripe being spewed by Milliband and Sturgeon.
A conservative majority seems unlikely at the moment so I hope you aren't contemplating anything drastic if they don't get in.