Only 23 years???

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Originally Posted by chris

so if capital punishment is no deterrent to convicted killers, then life imprisonment is basically a holiday camp and somewhere to go to live for the rest of their lives.:wave:

you try telling that to the victims families and i think you would get a very different answer :thumbup:

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Just because life in prisonment isn't a déterrant doesn't mean it's easy. Someone who kills another human being isn't thinking about the consequences because they're a psychopath anyway.

There's a reason we don't let victim's families judge trials, it's because we want justice not revenge.

If someone murdered a member of my family I would want to kill them of course, but I'm not in favour of the death penalty and it's a pretty weak reason for bringing it back.

Also can you stop avoiding the question about people who have been convicted of murder and served 20 years of their sentence before being found not guilty. Under your regime they'd have been put to death, surely the government committing premeditated murder of an innocent person in that case is just as bad as any other murderer?

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Just because life in prisonment isn't a déterrant doesn't mean it's easy. Someone who kills another human being isn't thinking about the consequences because they're a psychopath anyway.

There's a reason we don't let victim's families judge trials, it's because we want justice not revenge.

If someone murdered a member of my family I would want to kill them of course, but I'm not in favour of the death penalty and it's a pretty weak reason for bringing it back.

Also can you stop avoiding the question about people who have been convicted of murder and served 20 years of their sentence before being found not guilty. Under your regime they'd have been put to death, surely the government committing premeditated murder of an innocent person in that case is just as bad as any other murderer?

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the justice system in this country is totally wrong , i believe as do many others that if a person found guilty of murder or murders then that person does not have the right to live while the victims families suffer far more than that person will ever do in prison .

brady, sutcliffe , and many others should not be around today and that is my opinion. :thumbup:

I can see why you hold that view and fair enough but for me even ignoring all the other factors I think killing them is an easy way out, they don't have to suffer any remorse or loss of freedom, or the monotony of spending the rest of their days in a concrete box. They get to sit in a chair and immediately get peace from death.

Is death really that much more of a punishment than being confined to a prison for the rest of your life, with other criminals? For me I'd rather complete nothingness than life in prison.

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Originally Posted by chris

i have obviously opened a can of worms up here and do not want to go on posting all day ::hehe:

i have basically explained that i would be in favour of the death penalty been reintroduced, for convicted and PROVEN killers that are currently residing in hm prisons across the country and i feel that many millions in this country feel exactly the same way :thumbup:

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Why not? It's an interesting debate so far.

I accept your opinion, even if I disagree with it. My whole point is that everyone's going to have a different "death threshold".

My other point is that since 1992 in America, twenty death row prisoners have been found to be innocent and released. Presumably they were convicted "beyond all reasonable doubt"

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I can see why you hold that view and fair enough but for me even ignoring all the other factors I think killing them is an easy way out, they don't have to suffer any remorse or loss of freedom, or the monotony of spending the rest of their days in a concrete box. They get to sit in a chair and immediately get peace from death.

Is death really that much more of a punishment than being confined to a prison for the rest of your life, with other criminals? For me I'd rather complete nothingness than life in prison.

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some convicted for life would prefer death, and others would prefer to live tilll the end of their days in captivity it all depends on the individual itself .

what i am saying is i think the public in general would want capital punishment introduced especially for child killers and mass murderers , they see life imprisonment as no kind of punishment for the crimes they have committed .

what you have got to realise is they are not fed on bread and water anymore and put in a crumbling stone cold cell , sutcliffe , brady and many more are kept isolated from the rest of the prison population and might as well have been living in the holiday inn for the last 30 - 40 years they are certainly not suffering in any way shape or form like they should be. :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by chris

some convicted for life would prefer death, and others would prefer to live tilll the end of their days in captivity it all depends on the individual itself .

what i am saying is i think the public in general would want capital punishment introduced especially for child killers and mass murderers , they see life imprisonment as no kind of punishment for the crimes they have committed .

what you have got to realise is they are not fed on bread and water anymore and put in a crumbling stone cold cell , sutcliffe , brady and many more are kept isolated from the rest of the prison population and might as well have been living in the holiday inn for the last 30 - 40 years they are certainly not suffering in any way shape or form like they should be. :thumbup:

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I think you are wrong.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32061822

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Originally Posted by chris

some convicted for life would prefer death, and others would prefer to live tilll the end of their days in captivity it all depends on the individual itself .

what i am saying is i think the public in general would want capital punishment introduced especially for child killers and mass murderers , they see life imprisonment as no kind of punishment for the crimes they have committed .

what you have got to realise is they are not fed on bread and water anymore and put in a crumbling stone cold cell , sutcliffe , brady and many more are kept isolated from the rest of the prison population and might as well have been living in the holiday inn for the last 30 - 40 years they are certainly not suffering in any way shape or form like they should be. :thumbup:

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I wouldn't care if I was eating côté de bœuf and fois gras for dinner every day if I couldn't leave the prison. The idea of 30-40 years in a holiday in without being able to get out seems like torture.

If some would prefer one to the other you're just giving the other half what they want then?

I'm pretty sure the public doesn't want the death penalty according to recent surveys too.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

I think you are wrong.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32061822

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oh well lets keep, messrs brady and sutcliffe and all the rest tucked up in their nice cosy cells then eh. :hehe:

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Originally Posted by chris

oh well lets keep, messrs brady and sutcliffe and all the rest tucked up in their nice cosy cells then eh. :hehe:

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Yeah as that's the current law in most civilised countries.

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Originally Posted by chris

oh well lets keep, messrs brady and sutcliffe and all the rest tucked up in their nice cosy cells then eh. :hehe:

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I know you are an idiot , I shouldn't engage, but, have you ever spent one day in prison, have you any idea what it is like for someone to take away your liberty?
I have no sympathy with those in jail, but dont believe its an easy option.

What sort of life must someone lead to think being stuck in a holiday inn room (and that's an exaggeration too) for the rest of your life with about half hour exercise a day is a good thing?

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Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock

I know you are an idiot , I shouldn't engage, but, have you ever spent one day in prison, have you any idea what it is like for someone to take away your liberty?
I have no sympathy with those in jail, but dont believe its an easy option.

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oh poor mr brady and mr sutcliffe and poor little miss allit killing babies left right and centre locked away in their nasty little cells.

my heart bleeds for them it really does. get real ffs. :hehe:

Surely you can see no one is feeling sympathy for these men? We are just debating the pros and cons of the death penalty.

You should try debating those points instead of just posting emotive rubbish.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Surely you can see no one is feeling sympathy for these men? We are just debating the pros and cons of the death penalty.

You should try debating those points instead of just posting emotive rubbish.

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try getting your head around what these people did ffs :hehe: . jesus christ if they were ever let out of prison they would be running back to their cosy LITTLE cells BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE STRUNG UP. :hehe:

I understand what they did, now try getting your head around why the majority of civilised countries have done away with the death penalty because the cons far outweigh the pros.

I can see why you think those people should be killed, and I do agree with you even though I think it would be the easy way out with them. But surely you can try and understand the points of view against a death penalty.

It isn't as simple as these men are evil string them up, there are many more intricate details to debate beyond that.

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Originally Posted by chris

try getting your head around what these people did ffs :hehe: . jesus christ if they were ever let out of prison they would be running back to their cosy LITTLE cells BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE STRUNG UP. :hehe:

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So the premeditated murder of a murderer by a vigilant mob is ok in your death penalty paradise?

Have you thought about moving to Iran since I'd say their legal system seems much more like one you'd want that what we have here in the uk.

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Originally Posted by chris

try getting your head around what these people did ffs :hehe: . jesus christ if they were ever let out of prison they would be running back to their cosy LITTLE cells BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE STRUNG UP. :hehe:

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Unlike many I have never been in favour of banning you from this board, even when you are at your most stupid and irritating.

However, I am 100% in favour of banning you from using, misusing and abusing smilies/emojies. Your inane use of laughing smilies in the most inappropriate places puts you in a category all on your own. In a different and less enlightened age it would be worthy of 23 hours a day in a small cell with a bucket in the corner - if not worse!

He's also guilty of missing the point by an absolute mile as well, no one is arguing for the well being of murderers just why they think the death penalty isn't necessarily a good idea.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

So the premeditated murder of a murderer by a vigilant mob is ok in your death penalty paradise?

Have you thought about moving to Iran since I'd say their legal system seems much more like one you'd want that what we have here in the uk.

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i think you will find many states of the most powerful country in the world legalise the death penalty , it is never ending argument between the do gooders and the people who want proper justice .

the gas chamber or electric chair would be too good for the likes of the criminals formerly mentioned :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by chris

i think you will find many states of the most powerful country in the world legalise the death penalty , it is never ending argument between the do gooders and the people who want proper justice .

the gas chamber or electric chair would be too good for the likes of the criminals formerly mentioned :thumbup:

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I'm glad you've mentioned the US because despite the death penalty being legal in ~30 states 85% of US counties haven't executed anyone for more than 45 years.

In fact in the last 40 years only 1300 people have been executed in a country with a population of 320 million where gun crime and murders aren't a rare thing.

In fact another reason the US is a useful case study is that states with the death penalty don't have fewer murders, in fact it's the exact opposite.

Also per tax payer it costs more to kill someone than keep them in prison for 70 years.

The death penalty may be legal in the US but even there it is rare to see it even for premeditated murders.

To me it seems you see it just as a pure act of revenge without considering any other facets or arguments of the death penalty. There may be a handful of awful people being kept in prison but for me that's a price worth paying to live in a country where the government don't have the power to kill someone and no innocent men have been put to death in a long time.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I'm glad you've mentioned the US because despite the death penalty being legal in ~30 states 85% of US counties haven't executed anyone for more than 45 years.

In fact in the last 40 years only 1300 people have been executed in a country with a population of 320 million where gun crime and murders aren't a rare thing.

In fact another reason the US is a useful case study is that states with the death penalty don't have fewer murders, in fact it's the exact opposite.

Also per tax payer it costs more to kill someone than keep them in prison for 70 years.

The death penalty may be legal in the US but even there it is rare to see it even for premeditated murders.

To me it seems you see it just as a pure act of revenge without considering any other facets or arguments of the death penalty. There may be a handful of awful people being kept in prison but for me that's a price worth paying to live in a country where the government don't have the power to kill someone and no innocent men have been put to death in a long time.

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many are kept on death row for years at at a time, going through appeal after appeal, but eventually the sentence is carried out most of the time no matter how long it takes. :wave:

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Originally Posted by chris

many are kept on death row for years at at a time, going through appeal after appeal, but eventually the sentence is carried out most of the time no matter how long it takes. :wave:

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Yes, this is true, eventually the prisoner does die in 100% of cases.

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Originally Posted by itkman

Yes, this is true, eventually the prisoner does die in 100% of cases.

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yeah, they probably die of old age waiting to go to the electric chair. :hehe:

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Originally Posted by chris

many are kept on death row for years at at a time, going through appeal after appeal, but eventually the sentence is carried out most of the time no matter how long it takes. :wave:

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A quick fact check will tell that's wrong too, as well as the fact that on average 4% of people on death row are innocent. So let's say at the moment there are 3000 people on death row in the states about 120 of them are innocent. Is it worth that much loss of innocent life purely for revenge?

Also the US with capital punishment has a much higher murder rate than the uk that doesn't have capital punishment.

Again you aren't addressing any points of the debate other than you think very bad people should killed, can you give me another pro of capital punishment? I'm always interested to have my opinion changed.

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Originally Posted by chris

yeah, they probably die of old age waiting to go to the electric chair. :hehe:

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Exactly that, they end up just doing a life sentence but at a greater cost due to all the appeals etc.

There was a really good program a few years ago about appeals on death row, really interesting about battling the clock to try and prove men were innocent.