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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
It would be useful on both CCMB and every other facet of political debate on planet earth if people could cease labelling anything centre-right as 'far-right' and anything centre-left as 'marxist'
You can be such a lame centrist at times James. No wonder Conservatives keep conceding ground in the culture war. You need to be far more radical, expand your reading.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
jon1959
Do you have any idea what Marxism is? You seem to have tripped over the confused idea of ‘cultural Marxism’ (which has something to do with culture and nothing to do with Marxism) and are now parroting the latest infantile M word abuse line that comes from culture war conservatives and frightened neo Nazis swept up by Trumpism. It is not a good look!
I read a fair bit about cultural marxism, it's roots in the Frankfurt school and Antonio Gramsci et al.
Marxists like higher tax and other top down governmental rules based on equality. But often don't follow these rules themselves. Which is the point i made and nothing you said refuted this.
Trump had potential in an American context but was misguided by Jared Kushner, Sheldon Adelson and other prominant zionists. He was a slave to the Israel lobby, which isn't for me. Bit which modern President hasn't been beholden to the Israel lobby? JFK Maybe? He was mysteriously assassinated....
Having said that about Trump he was the first President in a long time who didn't start a foreign war during his spell in office. Surely you'd applaud that Jon?
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
Lither_1927
I read a fair bit about cultural marxism, it's roots in the Frankfurt school and Antonio Gramsci et al.
Marxists like higher tax and other top down governmental rules based on equality. But often don't follow these rules themselves. Which is the point i made and nothing you said refuted this.
Trump had potential in an American context but was misguided by Jared Kushner, Sheldon Adelson and other prominant zionists. He was a slave to the Israel lobby, which isn't for me. Bit which modern President hasn't been beholden to the Israel lobby? JFK Maybe? He was mysteriously assassinated....
Having said that about Trump he was the first President in a long time who didn't start a foreign war during his spell in office. Surely you'd applaud that Jon?
Trump tried his best to start a Civil war though.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
Lither_1927
You can be such a lame centrist at times James. No wonder Conservatives keep conceding ground in the culture war. You need to be far more radical, expand your reading.
I am more than happy being criticised from both sides :thumbup:
I do understand where you are coming from - a lot of increasingly mainstream left-wing opinion does have clear links to Marxism and the need to define and understand everything through class conflict; so it's the police's fault, it's white peoples fault, it's colonialisms fault, it's the rich's fault etc etc. That doesn't mean, just like the preposterous labelling of so many things as 'far right' that it's not overblown.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Sky cancel tonight’s Candidate’s debate after Sunak and Truss pull out of it after concerns were expressed about the damage being done to the party by the two previous ones - what does that say about the Tory “brand” currently?
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Sky cancel tonight’s Candidate’s debate after Sunak and Truss pull out of it after concerns were expressed about the damage being done to the party by the two previous ones - what does that say about the Tory “brand” currently?
Why do they even have televised debates? Hardly any of us can actually vote for them
Although it is funny seeing the very same people in charge of the country for the past decade absolutely trashing it and blaming each other for it. Total self absorbed dumb asses.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lither_1927
I read a fair bit about cultural marxism, it's roots in the Frankfurt school and Antonio Gramsci et al.
Marxists like higher tax and other top down governmental rules based on equality. But often don't follow these rules themselves. Which is the point i made and nothing you said refuted this.
Trump had potential in an American context but was misguided by Jared Kushner, Sheldon Adelson and other prominant zionists. He was a slave to the Israel lobby, which isn't for me. Bit which modern President hasn't been beholden to the Israel lobby? JFK Maybe? He was mysteriously assassinated....
Having said that about Trump he was the first President in a long time who didn't start a foreign war during his spell in office. Surely you'd applaud that Jon?
Being so well read where is the most successful Marxist culture ?
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
lardy
Why do they even have televised debates? Hardly any of us can actually vote for them
Although it is funny seeing the very same people in charge of the country for the past decade absolutely trashing it and blaming each other for it. Total self absorbed dumb asses.
But isn't that a good thing , getting to see what folk say and can do in debate and under pressure , these types of debate go on in all parties were they try sell , buy or secretly fix their leadership bid ..
At least were getting transparency of what they think and who they are .
I don't think they are dumb arsed either I' d not do their job or one of the opposition .
Hugely diverse candidates ( Labour please note there are women out there and black candidates )
It was great to see 3 woman of of which Kemi Badenoch is some prospect and would strike fear into Labour.
One white male Thom Tugendhat who reminded me of a centralists Nick Clegg .
We had Rishi Sunak who is a thinker and a socialist type chancellor .
Penny Mordant speaks very well and its not all about me ,the party faithful lover her .
Then Truss , who I think speered Rishi last night , who would have though she was from parents who were left of Labour , I think makes her a better straight talker , yes she not appealing , to listen or look at , seems geeky at and as she said in not as slick as others lol , I thought she was the better of a strange bunch last night , not an Eton type , came form fairly ordinary school background .
Truss may now win this ................
Bring back Boris I hear you all shout ......
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
But isn't that a good thing , getting to see what folk say and can do in debate and under pressure , these types of debate go on in all parties were they try sell , buy or secretly fix their leadership bid ..
At least were getting transparency of what they think and who they are .
I don't think they are dumb arsed either I' d not do their job or one of the opposition .
Hugely diverse candidates ( Labour please note there are women out there and black candidates )
It was great to see 3 woman of of which Kemi Badenoch is some prospect and would strike fear into Labour.
One white male Thom Tugendhat who reminded me of a centralists Nick Clegg .
We had Rishi Sunak who is a thinker and a socialist type chancellor .
Penny Mordant speaks very well and its not all about me ,the party faithful lover her .
Then Truss , who I think speered Rishi last night , who would have though she was from parents who were left of Labour , I think makes her a better straight talker , yes she not appealing , to listen or look at , seems geeky at and as she said in not as slick as others lol , I thought she was the better of a strange bunch last night , not an Eton type , came form fairly ordinary school background .
Truss may now win this ................
Bring back Boris I hear you all shout ......
“Truss may now win this…………………”, well this is the electorate that gave us May and Johnson, so, clearly, anything’s possible.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
“Truss may now win this…………………”, well this is the electorate that gave us May and Johnson, so, clearly, anything’s possible.
Sadly its not the electorate that decides this , mind you parties are renowned for not knowing what the electorate want to see and that goes for all parties in the past ..
I'd vote for Kemi Badenoch
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
life on mars
Sadly its not the electorate that decides this , mind you parties are renowned for not knowing what the electorate want to see and that goes for all parties in the past ..
I'd vote for Kemi Badenoch
Even when the electorate do vote for something, there are still people who dismiss it of course..
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
“Truss may now win this…………………”, well this is the electorate that gave us May and Johnson, so, clearly, anything’s possible.
Any of the other four woiuld be prefereable to Truss!!
Unfortunately I think it will be her because she will probably pick up most of the Braverman votes and most of the Badenoch votes when (if?)she goes.
If Truss had been as bad as she was in the 1st debate yesterday, I think a number of her votes would have moved to Badenocn, but she was better( though not brilliant) so she may have saved herself.
We will lnow more after the ballot today. If Mordaunt hasn't picked up most of Tom Tugendhats vote and if Truss remains the same distance ahead of Badenoch then Truss looks like the favourite to be in the top two after this week's third ballot
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
Elwood Blues
Any of the other four woiuld be prefereable to Truss!!
Unfortunately I think it will be her because she will probably pick up most of the Braverman votes and most of the Badenoch votes when (if?)she goes.
If Truss had been as bad as she was in the 1st debate yesterday, I think a number of her votes would have moved to Badenocn, but she was better( though not brilliant) so she may have saved herself.
We will lnow more after the ballot today. If Mordaunt hasn't picked up most of Tom Tugendhats vote and if Truss remains the same distance ahead of Badenoch then Truss looks like the favourite to be in the top two after this week's third ballot
Seems Liz has got to Rishi they have pulled out of tonight's debate,he looked very uncomfortable last night after Truss went for him ??
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Who could have predicted that the two candidates best placed for the last two with the most to lose would be the ones to pull out of the debate. Seems like they have inherited Johnson's fritness.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
cyril evans awaydays
Who could have predicted that the two candidates best placed for the last two with the most to lose would be the ones to pull out of the debate. Seems like they have inherited Johnson's fritness.
I'm sure Truss will sit for just as many press interviews as Johnson did in his leadership campaign.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Sunak came over as the Head Boy
Truss as the spiteful gang leader
Tugendhat as the boy whose face betrays that he ate the last cookie in the tuck shop jar
Mordaunt as the sexiest girl in the class who doesn't need to impress with her intellect and
Badenock as the likable girl next door.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
It's a little OTT that, a bit of a hatchet job. Nearly every politician tries to play up how ordinary their background or current lives are - that's par for the course. Indeed, par for society really.
Leeds North East is part of the red-wall and she did grow up there.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
It's a little OTT that, a bit of a hatchet job. Nearly every politician tries to play up how ordinary their background or current lives are - that's par for the course. Indeed, par for society really.
Leeds North East is part of the red-wall and she did grow up there.
Unfortunately, The Guardian is as predictable as the Daily Mail.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
Unfortunately, The Guardian is as predictable as the Daily Mail.
Absolutely. Just give the readers what they want. As I've always said, I don't read one without the other and the truth will lie somewhere between the two.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
Unfortunately, The Guardian is as predictable as the Daily Mail.
I’d be interested to know which party you think the Guardian is aligned to as strongly as the Mail is to the Conservatives. I’d describe the Guardian as anti Conservative more than anything else - a bit like me.
The Mirror’s a Labour paper, not sure the Guardian is, but, if it is, it’s a fairly recent transition.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I’d be interested to know which party you think the Guardian is allied to as strongly as the Mail is to the Conservatives. I’d describe the Guardian as anti Conservative more than anything else - a bit like me.
The Mirror’s a Labour paper, not sure the Guardian is, but, if it is, it’s a fairly recent transition.
There's the predictability I mentioned.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
It's a little OTT that, a bit of a hatchet job. Nearly every politician tries to play up how ordinary their background or current lives are - that's par for the course. Indeed, par for society really.
Leeds North East is part of the red-wall and she did grow up there.
It’s a Labour seat that was Sir Keith Joseph’s old constituency for thirty one years, hardly your typical red wall seat. Maybe it is a hatchet job, I don’t know and neither do you, but it gives an alternative view of the place Liz Truss has rubbished - your default position is to disbelieve the story, mine is the opposite.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
There's the predictability I mentioned.
So which party does it back? I can think of six national daily’s that are Conservative backers at election time and three which tend not to endorse the Conservatives, but only one of those consistently backs the Labour Party. It’s hardly a fair balance and I’d also remind you that Wikipedia does not consider the Daily Mail reliable enough to use as a reference. Despite its faults, the Guardian is a far more objective paper than the Mail
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
It’s a Labour seat that was Sir Keith Joseph’s old constituency for thirty one years, hardly your typical red wall seat. Maybe it is a hatchet job, I don’t know and neither do you, but it gives an alternative view of the place Liz Truss has rubbished - your default position is to disbelieve the story, mine is the opposite.
No, my default position is to trust journalists no more than I do politicians. In fact, given no one elected them, and they only have to give their readership what they want to read, I probably trust them even less.
It's just predictable stuff, which after a while gets very boring. Whether it's the Daily Mail picking on Corbyns suit, or the guardian finding some journalist to pull apart Liz Truss's back story..it's all just pulling people in one direction and away from any sensible middle ground.
Guardian nearly always supports Labour, sometimes Lib Dems, although from recollection I think TOBW is right in that their position is generally anti-conservative more than anything. Very grown up.
I think the standard of writing is higher at the guardian than the Mail - one is a tabloid and one isn't says it all. Where the guardian falls down is in it's editorial purity. You simply won't read about a story that isn't aligned to it's editorial position - so everything about brexit is negative, everything about the Tories is negative etc etc. It's just not reporting things as they are.
Daily Mail probably has a greater diversity of opinion in all honesty - and it shows.
